Open 143: Jungle Republic (Game Over!) before 787

[gorckat]

@AA23:

1)Only the wolves get a NK.
2) Even if there were two NKs, you neglect cross-kill possibilites
3) Why are you so fixated on the lack of a quick hammer?

Vote Count

zwetschenwasser 3 - Khamisa, AshMC1984, dejkha
AA23 1 - Gorckat
Ash 1 - Mixologist
AceMarksman 1 - Percy
Empking 1 - AA23

[Empking]

The whole point about the Emp case is that he told no one to CC if you were to claim Seer. That's scummy. When you ask someone to claim, you wait and see and then say something like that.

Only if you can guarantee posting before the seer. I couldn't.

It is better to make my post than to riisk seer counterclaiming or scum getting off claiming.

[AA23]

Do you have reason to believe that a town with 5 villains not taking advantage of a 7 to lynch wagon isn't suspicious?

I'm fixated on the fact that villains had to have already been on it and there wasn't enough to throw the hammer.


**side note - - isn't it illogical to have mafia that can't nk? What threat are they with a common enemy to town? Did someone just make this type of game up?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

@Dej - My Emp case reflects heavily on the very point you made when you connected Dust and Emp in your previous post

@Mix - who are we all waiting on at this point? I think significant lurking has been taking place by now

[AA23]

@Emp - then you pick one - - you warn the seer not to CC in the event of a claim - - your logic would make sense had you not called for the claim yourself

otherwise, why would you be afraid the seer would out themselves before dust claims?

[Mixologist]

Do you have reason to believe that a town with 5 villains not taking advantage of a 7 to lynch wagon isn't suspicious?

From what I've seen, scum rarely hammer. They often try to let townies do it. If said lynchee flips town, the person who drops the hammer is often the first person to be looked at. Especially if it's a quick-hammer. So lack of quick-hammer does not necessarily imply that Dust is scum.

**side note - - isn't it illogical to have mafia that can't nk? What threat are they with a common enemy to town? Did someone just make this type of game up?

It's Mafia. To screw with our heads. They have the advantage of numbers, and winning conditions. Also, this is why I said earlier that for the time being, the seer is just as big of a help to the Mafia. Their only true defense is the knowledge of who isn't Mafia.

As to who hasn't posted, hewitt, khamisa, zwet, and Ace off the top of my head. Though I know that zwet and Ace have APs this week.

[dejkha]

Only if you can guarantee posting before the seer. I couldn't.

It is better to make my post than to riisk seer counterclaiming or scum getting off claiming.

It has it's pros and cons, but the cons outweigh the pros since we don't know anyones alignment.

@Dej - My Emp case reflects heavily on the very point you made when you connected Dust and Emp in your previous post

Yeah and all that consists of is Emp telling a Seer not to CC ahead of time and the benefits that could have if they're were a pair. I don't think just that is worthy of a lynch.

[AA23]

Alright -

Unvote

I'm going to write today off as what I hate - - lynch hunting. I'm observing until all the lurkers have posted and our to V/LA's are back.

FoS: Dust & Emp

[Dust]

AA, it's not an uncommon scum tactic to divide the way in which people get on wagons. I expressed early the thought that it's very likely the wagon was 3 townies, 1 mafia, 1 wolf, because that would allow for the biggest amount of safety in regard to getting caught up in a mislynch.

A thought just occurred to me. I'm going to go back and reread the people who were arguing for me, and the people who were arguing against me, and how they were connected. It might be a more useful exercise to analyze not simply who was on the wagon, AA, but also who was off of it.

[Mixologist]

Oh, forgot Ash should be added to that list.

hewitt, khamisa, zwet, Ace, Ash

[Dust]

EBWOP: My last post was addressed to AA's 202.

[gorckat]

Do you have reason to believe that a town with 5 villains not taking advantage of a 7 to lynch wagon isn't suspicious?

I'm fixated on the fact that villains had to have already been on it and there wasn't enough to throw the hammer.

The meta on MS tends towards not hammering unless a deadline is looming or a reasonably solid cop claim comes down with a guilty. Perhaps a slight/hyperbolic exaggeration, but neither townies nor scum are especially likely to quick hammer (exception- if the claim was fake, the real seer raining some justice down would be nice...perhaps an argument to let claimed power roles linger at -1 for a little longer, in general).

I have been an advocate of more timely hammering and not letting people with a good case case squirm around without good reason, but at this point in the game, I think only people already on the wagon then have a meta to hammer (zwet for one, obviously).

I've only read frommy post last night today, so I have to go back and look at where everyone was during the Dust wagon to comment more fully, but I have noticed you talking about a quick hammer almost every post (or at least the perception of doing so).

If scum had quick-hammered the seer, they'd have a target on their back Day 2, so I don't follow why they'd have done so at that point. It sounds like you want to be seen as the cool, rational guy with the town's interest at heart.

And for everything (I think) you've said about being informed, you hadn't read the setup telling us that only 1 NK will be occuring.

[AA23]

Glad you think I'm cool, Gorkcat, maybe stick to scumhunting, though.

Oh, forgot Ash should be added to that list.

hewitt, khamisa, zwet, Ace, Ash

Not happy with that list - - And it's fair to say, Gorckat, that someone who periodically pokes in to post but doesn't contribute to the cause is actively lurking, no?

**I skimmed through the game details same way anyone else would - - got my pm, glanced at the mod list of pm's, and only read into seer and werewolves - I was familiar with the other ones and had always associated Nk's with scum**

- - So aside from personal attacks on me based on "I think you're trying to look cool and rational" do you mind contributing?

[gorckat]

I had quite the weekend. I'll be catching up later tonight.

My next readthrough wil be players in isolation. Something in AA's admittance to the Dust case being trivial needs more scrutiny (if I'm remembering the post correctly- I'm beat.)

I've only read frommy post last night today, so I have to go back and look at where everyone was during the Dust wagon to comment more fully...

Sorry. You all posted a lot over the weekend I wasn't available in this game that started Thursday and I've averaged only 1.5 posts per day in.

I've told you all where I'm digging. When I don't deliver tell you what I find at the bottom of that hole, then go ahead and call me a lurker.

[gorckat]

EBWOP: "...de;iver and tell..."

[AA23]

Active lurker.

And understandably. We have indeed posted a lot recently. Just try to be a little more sensitive to the process here, I've tried to exhaust any theories that came to mind and while they may not all be worth persuing, every dead end is one we don't have to worry about and thus tightens a scope on the right trail - - we're all trying here.

I can be equally sensitive to any time constraints - - let us know what you come up with, there's of course time since we have to wait on the people who aren't posting at all...

[hewitt]

Do you have reason to believe that a town with 5 villains not taking advantage of a 7 to lynch wagon isn't suspicious?

I disagree, especially after this has been pointed out.

[dejkha]

Please tell me that's not all you have to say...

[AA23]

wow.

[Mixologist]

I wouldn't go as far as saying AA23 is scum but I remember reading the previous pages and thinking he's the scummiest, I'm at Six Flags today so if I don't explain why tonight then prompt me and I'll remember tomorrow.

Until you explain...

unvote

vote hewitt

[zwetschenwasser]

Dejkha, you parrotted everyone else's thoughts and called it a case on me, then later called it "your lead". Hypocrisy?

[dejkha]

1. That's not hypocrisy. If you're gonna make a smart ass remark, make sure you know what the word means.
2. Compare my quotes with other peoples from earlier to show how and where I parroted.
3. Anything else you'd like to say or do you like when cases against you are reinforced by active lurking?

[dejkha]

Also, everyone take a look at Zwets 20 posts in isolation. No scumhunting whatsoever. All he's done is blindly agree with Ace's reasons for his vote and asked for a CC. Both of which are scummy.

[Mixologist]

Actually after re-reading both zwet and Ace in isolation I'm more interested in Ace though for these two posts:

Vote: dust

I have seen dust in other games (not on this site) playing as scum, and in every one where he is scum, he starts exactly like this.

Things to note: stifling of the RVS, which he supports when he's town, being quick to FoS but slow to vote etc.

dej: Mind you

I've only seen him in one game as scum

, but he started it the same way.

Contradiction anyone?

zwet might not be the brightest crayon in the box, but I doubt he would purposefully link himself to his scum buddy. I'm liking Ace more as Mafia and zwet as Wolf at this point.

unvote

vote AceMarksman

FOS hewitt

[AshMC1984]

Ash, do you believe Dust's claim or no?

I don't "believe" anything. I'll buy it for now because there isn't really much of an option currently.

For when you get back - just want you and Ash to explain your actions in voting, keeping votes, (pulling off), and your opinion on the circumstances.

My voting: I joke voted Dust. In between then and when I next checked the thread he got to L-1 (I think) very quickly. He also claimed Seer. Upon seeing this I unvoted and voted for Zwet. He put Dust at L-1 or L-2 for a weak reason.

Opinion: Dust may be the Seer. I can't take it for granted though, because really, what else was he going to say to aviod a lynch? If Dust

is

pro-town, then Zwet's late vote looks sketchy. IIRC Everyone else on the Dust-wagon had given an acceptable reason to be there.

He, however, doesn't mention Ace, who had the same reason for voting Dust as Zwet.

This is not true at all. Ace apparently had some good meta on Dust and his early game habits. Zwet voted after this and had none of his own Dust-meta, only what he saw in this game, which IMO doesn't warrant putting Dust at L-1 or 2. As it turns out, Ace's "meta" is total bullplop, but that is neither here nor there for why

I

voted Zwet and not Ace at the time. Also, Zwet's vote came later than Ace's, placing Dust in greater danger than Aces.

fos Ace

for lying.

fos dej

for misrepresenting me.

[AceMarksman]

I can't really explain without pissing Dust off. I've seen him as an alt only once on MS, but he forbade me from telling who. I know this sounds shaky, but he can confirm it for you.