Open 144 - Near-Vanilla - GAME OVER!

[dejkha]

AA wrapped it up pretty nicely though =P

[hohum]

OccamR: AndyTony is just being AndyTony. Everyone scumhunts in their own way. He seems to have the basic principle down though: A) Find sharp stick, B) poke

looking for clever ways to lynch a player by twisting what they say and manufacturing scum out of them

Seems to be what you're doing to me right now. You're making long leaps to "hohum is looking for a policy lynch"

Also,

I'd prefer it if you'd make an effort to lynch scum for us, rather than hunt a lynch

I'd prefer if you'd make an effort to lynch scum for us, instead of sniping at people over game theory.

Why not chill for a minute and give people a chance to show up?

[AndyTony]

hohum, that's the second time you've told me to chill in one fashion or another - - Enough.

I'm fine and dandy on my end. I'm not suggesting you're revving for a utility lynch - there is nobody being accused right now - your logic makes no sense.

I'm stating a game threory opinion - and a valid one

[hohum]

Hush up, theory boy.

[AndyTony]

sure, why not.

[hohum]

[MadCrawdad]

MadCrawdad: First of all, I put an emoticon on both posts. They both haven't been terribly serious. (:))
That being said, Zer0 has a somewhat dubious record of getting annoyed and claiming scum on D1, so I didn't want to start off on the wrong foot.

I've not played with zer0 before. Are you saying that, when annoyed, he claims to BE scum?

[dejkha]

Yes and I think there was only one game where he didn't and he was scum in that game. He normally does it not long into Day 1.

[ODDin]

I haven't played with him either, but I check out the people I'm playing with (at least some of them), and I skimmed through those games where he claimed scum.

[MadCrawdad]

I haven't played with him either, but I check out the people I'm playing with (at least some of them), and I skimmed through those games where he claimed scum.

What prompted you to select zer0's past games to investigate?

[ODDin]

It's written right in his profile on the wiki.

[MadCrawdad]

In looking at the profile on wiki, it seems like claiming to be scum has become his shtick....IMO, it makes it kind of a null tell.

So why would you think that zer0 claiming scum here would be starting off 'on the wrong foot'?

MadCrawdad: First of all, I put an emoticon on both posts. They both haven't been terribly serious. (:))
That being said, Zer0 has a somewhat dubious record of getting annoyed and claiming scum on D1, so I didn't want to start off on the wrong foot.

[ODDin]

Somebody saying "I'm scum" isn't a null tell, no matter how you look at it.
What I meant was, I didn't want to make it seem like I'm specifically attacking him.

[hohum]

ODDin's approach to this game strikes me as particularly strange. Isn't the object to piss someone off to the point where they start dropping tells? Why are you trying to massage his ego?

[Zer0ph34r]

Oh yeah, I have claimed to be scum 3 or 4 times I believe now. I won't claim scum if I don't get pissed at the stupidity of people. So far, I see no stupidity. But we're only 4 pages in.

[ODDin]

hohum: the point of the game is to annoy

scum

until they start dropping tells. The strategy of annoying and pressuring everybody and anybody is based on the fact that only scum will crack under pressure.
If I know of a player who may crack and actually claim scum while not being scum, then making it happen doesn't benefit me as town in any way. What I get by pressuring him is getting him lynched - and, as AndyTony has (quite correctly) said, the point is not to lynch

people

, it's to lynch

scum

. Statistically, the chances of him being scum are lower than the chances of him being town. Thus, there's no reason I should want him lynched per se.

And the fact that I actually needed to explain this (especially after what AndyTony said) earns you a FoS.

FoS: hohum

[MadCrawdad]

Somebody saying "I'm scum" isn't a null tell, no matter how you look at it.
What I meant was, I didn't want to make it seem like I'm specifically attacking him.

If it's not a null tell, what is it?

[hewitt]

hohum: the point of the game is to annoy

scum

until they start dropping tells. The strategy of annoying and pressuring everybody and anybody is based on the fact that only scum will crack under pressure.

I do not agree with that at all. From my own experiences I think I was much more likely to crack under pressure and snap out when I was town more than scum. I've seen other players do it as well.

[ODDin]

It's a lynch, right then and there, no questions asked. Game impossible to play with a player who claimed scum alive. It will become a steaming pile of WIFOM and twisted logic.

[ODDin]

Last post addressed at MadCrawdad.

hewitt - that's why I generally don't like pressure tactics.

[hohum]

ODDin: how do YOU usually go about the task of hunting scum then?

[ODDin]

I observe the game and look at peoples' behaviour. When I see someone doing something I think is anti-town, contradicting themselves, bringing up faulty arguments, being in connection with other scummy people etc, I point it out and demand an explanation. I do put a certain amount of pressure, of course, but mostly in accordance to the amount of suspicion. That is, I don't attempt to press too hard for the sake of pressure itself if I don't actually have arguments that make me extremely suspicious of said person.
I attempt to calmly state arguments for and against people.

[hohum]

Faulty is subjective. Your assumption that faulty is a scum tell is a faulty argument.

If it were up to you to actually start a conversation in order to extract information from someone, how would you go about it?

[ODDin]

Logical fallacies are hardly something subjective.

If it were up to me to start discussion? Putting extra votes on somebody to start off a small bandwagon often yields results. This works worse in games with few players (if you have 7 players, 3 votes is already L-1) since bandwagons can get out of hand quickly, but it usually works.
For more effect I might fake a small argument out of something. This is sort of what my "OMGUS so early in the morning" was for, although the emoticon kinda ruined it, as it appeared.

[hohum]

How is voting someone into dropping scum tells not pressure again?

Vote: ODDin

I think you're just making up excuses now so you don't have to explain why you're not contributing later.