The Manor: Chzo Mafia (Game Over!)

[Sajin]

/confirmed

[Sajin]

vote populartajoi

Expect the expected.

[Sajin]

7 and 1/2. Thats not that big

[Sajin]

With the exception of certain end game scenarios or smalltown, NL is bad m'kay?

@shadowknight: what do you think about the random voting stage?

[Sajin]

But...I like barley!

Caesar! Your citizens demand many loaves of bread so we can properly determine the fate of the soon to be vanquished evil gladiators. The thumbs down is in your hands!



and back on topic: @Lamont- Why do you think its ok to ever give an unclaimed unconfirmed entity the key to the town car?

fos Lamont

[Sajin]

Did you get it cause you were the 3rd?

[Sajin]

It says right on the item drop message that it could go to the 3rd person requested. Thats what happened.

[Sajin]

I never said anything about roles, thanks for missrepping-- really.

[Sajin]

I'll happily drink it.

As tempting as it would be to get you the hell out of this game, I think I'll hang on to it for now.

BTW it must be used today or not at all.

[Sajin]

Well the question is do we think its harmful or beneficial. If we think its beneficial we should give it to someone very pro town looking. If we think its harmful, we give it to someone not looking great.

@hohum reguardless if it is or not before you use it I want to know whether YOU think its a good thing or a bad thing. Answer before you use please.

[Sajin]

Many things are WIFOM, your point? Its still beneficial information. I would still like to know your intent before you give/force it on someone. I am not going to vote you for being wrong about the effects. I will vote you for not declaring your intent on an action.

[Sajin]

I have made a decision to vote you if you do not declare whether you think it has positive or negative effects, yes.

My only input is that you do not test it on yourself, anyone else but you. Town needs information about each other and if whatever it does helps confirm someone later so much the better.

[Sajin]

I want you to declare intent.... What part of that is unclear?

I understand you don't know. I want to know what you think it does.

[Sajin]

The advantage with public abilities like this is to findout later motivations behind actions. By not declaring you are throwing away a opportunity for us to learn something.


And how are you 50/50 sure amished? You really just want to make this WIFOM eh?

[Sajin]

I do not know the effects of said item. But I cannot conclude that someone in the game does NOT know what this does like you are assuming. Like our volunteer. In fact I would suggest NOT using it on the volunteer.

I really just want to negate someone using extra information to hurt town. Its happened to me before in too many mafia games.

If we really don't want to declare intent because of whatever reason, I am fine with a /diceroll selection process.

[Sajin]

The dice code on this forum is sufficiently random for me. Why is it not for you steph? Your also the one who wanted it to go to lamont because he wanted it....why? How would it help us determine his playstyle on him in particular over someone else?

vote Stephoscope

fos Lamont

[Sajin]

Well sure the exact effects are unknown. But the effect could be confirmable (lots of possibilities are confirmable) and this possibility means we should use it as a chance to get confirmation of something. The town is uninformed and any information helps.

I could say the same thing about a Vig shot- The vig could kill a townie. Does this mean the Vig should not shoot? The lynch could lynch a townie. Are you advocating no lynch then?

[Sajin]

@321Lamont- Anser the last question please.

@All Would a diceroll 1-19 by hohum and the drink be given to the result as according to post 1 be acceptable? Type /agree if you find this ok.

[Sajin]

unvote: vote Lamont

I want to see in the confines of your argument how you are not advocating no lynching today.

[Sajin]

Yes but in mafia results are an unknown quantity quite often. Which is the point (especially with this theme). Roles like millars and bus drivers mess up certainty. In a game like this especially, certainty is a luxury.

His position on why we should not drink the elixer (because of the uncertainty) would lead me to believe he would advocate a no lynch (because of the uncertainty) with the same principles.

Also- Why did you feel the need to defend him?

[Sajin]

@Amished-
You did bring up 50/50 first, post 242, your the one that is misrepresenting me.


Ah, but the bus driver/Millar are only predictable if you know they are in the setup. If you do not know the setup, much like our decanter case then the possibility of them existing messes up the certainty of an action. The decanter is just like the aforementioned situation because we do not know what it does. Does this mean we do not account for it? No.


Overallpoint- Why would you want to throw away something that is potentially verifiable?

[Sajin]

Sajin: How do you plan to verify whats in the decanter?

I didn't say it definitely was, only that it could be. Depending what the result was.

[Sajin]

In the off chance that scum know what this does, if we decide to random we should not let it be refused. Doing so lets the decision be made by the informed few. Bad idea. We are trying to avoid that by doing it randomly.

Finally a logical argument for not using it though. The history of the game theme. Thats the only decent argument brought up so far for not using it.

The argument that we should not use it because this game is hard for town is crap. The game is hard for town so we should not use any possible benefits at all then. Any town PRs should not use abilities cause this game is hard. Right.....

@Lamont I am still waiting for your answer to my question.

[Sajin]

@Lamont I am still waiting for your answer to my question.

we need to generate discussion. how does everyone feel about no lynches?

Anyone who advocates NL Day 1 is advocating an advantage for the Mafi. Basically its like saying, "Let's pretend D1 never happened".

Why would you even think of advocating this?

This is not an answer.

[Sajin]

Why would we give it to the lynch canidate? That makes no sense.

If its beneficial we threw it away.

If its harmful, its not any worse then not using it

If its verifiable, we lost an oppurtunity to verify someone.

The lynch canidate is someone it should NOT go to.

[Sajin]

When did I ever advocate no lynch?

[Sajin]

I agree I did compare not using the decanter to no lynching. That does not make me want to no lynch. I am for using items.

We cannot be absolutely certain what items actually do. However, using the items can be used later to verify intents. Regardless of what the item actually does. Even mildly bad items (silenced for a day, losing vote for a day, roleblocked for a day) can be used to verify.

@Lamont: Do you agree that item usage could be used to verify people based on info received?

[Sajin]

@Hohum the majority of the post you reference in 450 is sarcasm. I thought it was obvious.

@Devestation: Do you think we could use the possible effects of items to verify people with?

[Sajin]

I would still perfer dice rolls on day1.

Item vote: Shadow Knight

@Mod Plz note Sig (I am also curious if that where your going to be since the times align)

[Sajin]

Well let us know what it does Hohum.


@mod plz note sig.

[Sajin]

How is random assignment steering at all? YOUR the one steering sir.

[Sajin]

How is random assignment steering at all? YOUR the one steering sir.

I am considering that random analysis is a strong anti-town argument because of the chance of hitting a town PR.

I provided my analysis as an opinion.

Your assuming a ton of things in your assessment here and you have never sufficiently responded to my posts. New questions for you.

Could we use a negative effect to help verify someone?

How is voting any less of a chance of hitting a town PR?

How is random selection (dice) more steering then a vote?

Why do you want to lead everyone so much?

[Sajin]

Could we use a negative effect to help verify someone?

Anything is possible.

How is voting any less of a chance of hitting a town PR?

Because there are more townies than scum, and an informed vote should be more likely to focus on a non-power role

How is random selection (dice) more steering then a vote?

Its not. It's anti-town though.

1- A verification is valuable even if its a minor negative effect.

2- On an issue like this a vote is just as likely to be manipulated by scum especially on a day 1. How many times, statistically will scum be lynched day 1 with a day start? Exactly.

3 Explain rather than make blanket statements, I am not following the logic

[Sajin]

That item is not necessarily bad. The mod stated he was town which helps. And the time effect is clearly stated and as such could be prevented by a PR perhaps. Scum will not want to kill the guy thats dying in 2 days. So we as get a confirmed alive alignment for a few days.

Lamont- I find your comments of what scum would do to in such and such circumstance scummy regardless of how they apply to your previous statements and claims. Your also trying to sow confusion and doubt in almost every argument.

[Sajin]

Fine. You use crapologic attacks, you suffer the results. I already understand you chose not to listen.

I think Steph vote was unreasonable when first placed. But why are you so resistant on not using said symbol?

[Sajin]

Ugh well, deadline sucks. I can see Naomi as she herself defended several people and ignored others.

unvote; vote Naomi Saotome

I want to see what the shell does anyways.

[Sajin]

/confirm replacement. Give me a day for a catch up post.

[Sajin]

I also support a LK lynch and I also support hearing from Amished before we lynch.

[Sajin]

Not sure why we did not wait till amished came.

[Sajin]

I was incredibly disappointed I was not protected when I had the matches that explicitly stated that the town could not win and only tie if I was killed. Lame choice.

[Sajin]

How could the shotgun have been used? There was no ammo for it.

[Sajin]

Woah, why was there no narration for the reality shift as noted in his PM? Town could of still won with a quick lynch.


Amished- Why did you not protect me?

[Sajin]

I understand dramonic. It still says all reality shift will be notified by duration even if they "cannot be stopped" and town could of still won with a quick lynch.

[Sajin]

Here is my PM:

Ah, apologies.

These matches seem to be the only way to make fire in this house. They might come in handy if you ever escape this place - some houses deserve to be burnt down...

These matches must survive until end-game. You don't dare transfer them to another player, for fear you might pick the wrong person. If you are lynched or killed, the matches will break under your body when you die. You must survive, while carrying these matches, to the endgame for the town to achieve anything more than a draw.