Mini 757 - South Park Mafia (Game Over)

[charter]

Butters: Bring the World Cup to South Park so the... a huge soccer riot can destroy the-
Dougie: Simpsons did it! Simpsons did it!
Butters: [flips to plan #125-E] Take all the beer cans in South Park and have them shaken up in a huge mixer at the paint store so that-
Dougie: Episode 9F17 entitled "So It's Come To This!"
Butters: Fine! Then maybe I'll just forget about destroying the town and just run away and join the circus!
Dougie: ...Simpsons did it.
Butters: Dwaah!!

Vote Count

Empking - 3 (Spolium, ZazieR, caf19)
caf19 - 4 (mykonian, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Wall-E, Empking)

Not Voting (0)

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch!

caf19 (Butters Stotch - Busdriver) Lynched Day Two!

Win Condtion -

You win when all threats to the fourth grade are gone.

It is now Night Two. Night choices due in 72 hours.

[charter]

Cartman: Hey guys. Good morning. You guys... hear that another rape victim got saved by a superhero last night? They say it was the Coon.
Stan: Who's the Coon?
Cartman: I know, right?? "Who is the Coon?" It's what everyone must be asking themselves. Somebody is dressing up at night and taking the law into their own hands. As for me, I certainly don't agree with the Coon's reckless ways. If you ask me, there's no room in this world for vigilantes. I believe the Coon is a menace.
Kyle: ...Yeah, and dressing up and running around at night is faggy anyway.
Cartman: You're a fag, Kyle! Fuck you!
Kyle: ...Dude, what?!
Cartman: He's not a fag!
Kyle: Why do you care?
Cartman: Oh. I uh... well I ah ah I'm just... I'm just mad 'cause you should never use the term "fag," Kyle. That's a hate word. And it's insensitive to butt pirates. Anyway, what do you think about the Coon, Stan and Kenny? Do you think he's the savior this town needs or do you think he's a dangerous vigilante? Kenny?

ZazieR (Mr. Garrison - Reporter) Killed Night Two!

Win Condition -

You win when all threats to the fourth grade are gone.

Vote Count

Not Voting (5)

Debonair Danny DiPietro
Wall-E
Spolium
mykonian
Empking

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch! Deadline is May 21st at Midnight EST.

[Spolium]

TIMMAAAAAH

Goddamn. I leave you assholes alone for two and a half hours and you lynch the most obvtown player (this post was a ruse, made in the hope that caf would be spared the NK and at least make it to LYLO - I never thought that he would be lynched).

Immediately notable suspects are:

 - Myklonian, being the guy pushing the "but why would scum RB and kill dej that makes no sense" angle. Zaz's flip pretty much confirms that the mafia have a roleblocker, and chose to block/kill dej N1 for reasons unknown. This brings to mind Myk's #604, in which he pointed out that scum-Emp would've targeted dej instead of caf. Note that following my reply in #605 he swiftly backtracked from the idea of scum roleblocking dej, which stands out more now (as do his other protestations of the idea).

 - Empking, being a roleblocker in the midst of an otherwise role-heavy town (with the confirmed existence of a mafia RB - see above). He cycled through the same pattern of weak tunneling attacks on DDD, myself, and Zaz (two of which I am quite certain are town, DDD will likely see what I mean here) and his hammer on caf was blatantly opportunistic.

DDD's reasons for voting caf were the most reasonable of all presented IMO. Wall-E's convenient agreement and prompt revote doesn't look great - I'll also note that the last person to express a sentiment akin to "

Hypothetical Spolium-scum is kicking this game's ass

" turned out to be scum. Despite this, Wall-E strikes me as more likely town than scum. Same goes for DDD.

I plan to re-read tomorrow and take other cases into account, but right now I'm happy to lynch either Empking or Mykonian - either seems as good a choice as the other.

Timmaaaah? TIMMEH. Raaah!

[mykonian]

I still believe that it makes no sense to block caf for a scum roleblocker.

[Spolium]

TIMMMAHAAAHHHH!

I think the real question here is this: Is Empking telling the truth about targeting caf?

I'm not sure that it makes much sense for town-Empking to RB caf, you see. In #572 Emp said "

I didn't think [caf] had a pro-town power role but I didn't have a pro-town read on him either

", but in #576 claimed to have a more town read on him D2. My main concern is that despite this significant shift in read, Emp did not address caf directly unless caf asked him a question, and he didn't even mention caf's name until I asked about his opinion of caf (#380). Do these seem like the actions of someone who has an anti-town (or conflicted) read on a player?

Also, if you can believe that town-Empking blocked caf because he didn't think caf had a pro-town power role, what's so unlikely about scum-Emp

claiming

to have blocked caf because he didn't think caf had a power role at all? Emp is basically making the same assessment of caf in each case, and it wasn't an unreasonable risk to take.

I still believe that it makes no sense to block caf for a scum roleblocker.

I never said that the scum RB targeted caf.

Scumslip?

Tim. Heh, TIM! Blaaagh. Timmeeeh!

[mykonian]

no, that is what my assumption was. If emp was a scum roleblocker, then I would expect him to claim his real target.

but what you said before that, that you should have said yesterday.

based on what I thought till now, only emp and DDD remain as scum. I thought spolium highly protown day one, and had the same feeling with nonny.

[Spolium]

Tiiihhhhaaaaah.

no, that is what my assumption was. If emp was a scum roleblocker, then I would expect him to claim his real target.

What if the town was one lynch from LYLO and his partner was set up to bus him if necessary?

but what you said before that, that you should have said yesterday.

I'd have said it yesterday if it had occurred to me yesterday. Caf's lynch also grants more significance to his interactions (or lack thereof).

based on what I thought till now, only emp and DDD remain as scum. I thought spolium highly protown day one, and had the same feeling with nonny.

DDD? You've expressed no real suspicion of him at all, so far. Do you actually have reason to find him scummy, or is this circumstantial evidence?

* Concerning your interactions with caf:

#521 - Six pages in, caf19 is your "most serious target" due to "interactions with dejkha".
#577 - Following 6 posts and a total of five pages of activity, you should "

give

caf

, ddd, zazie a bit more attention from now on

". How did your earliest and most serious suspect slip your mind?
#596 - You provide possible evidence for scum-Caf (but give no indication of your initial reasons for suspicion, oddly).
#602 - You conceded the mistake in #596, and state that the "scum-caf idea" is "gone for the moment". He was your "most serious target" when you started reading. What happened here?
#642 - You reply to caf's Empking vote with a vote on caf, citing Wall-E's criticism. Still no sign of original case for scum-Caf.
#674 - You state that Caf seemed to be "buddying up early to Zaz" (the only indication of your original case, it seems), and that this "counts against caf" (it doesn't count against him until you know Zaz's alignment). Smells like you're adding fuel to the fire.

You've stressed more than once that you consider me the most protown player, and you did so from an early stage in your participation. Was caf's "buddying" much like this?

* Concerning your interactions with Emp:

#535 - You state that Empking should be watched as you had meta on him, and that some of his posts seemed like they were "to place doubt".
#552 - You vote Empking.
#557 - You went so far as to say that this fit Empking's scumplay.
#577 - You unvote Empking, believing his claim
#596 - You suggest caf/emp scumteam
#602 - You concede the mistake in #596, "

scum-caf-idea is gone for the moment. Doesn't make it that Empking is any more likely to be antitown

".
#647 - You express that Empking "has very little against him" and imply that Zaz's claim is not as convincing.
#657 - More Empking defence, you say Zaz is more likely to be lying.
#680 - You think Empking and DDD are likely to be the scum... wait, what?

It seems that you've kept Emp on your scumlist AND enjoying the luxury of defending him while going after the guy whose lynch you've

actually

been pushing for consistently since you joined the game. J'accuse!

TIMMAAHHAHAH! TIM

[Spolium]

Timm... TIMMEH!

@Myk - Kindly outline your case on DDD.

Haaah.

[Empking]

 - Empking, being a roleblocker in the midst of an otherwise role-heavy town (with the confirmed existence of a mafia RB - see above). He cycled through the same pattern of weak tunneling attacks on DDD, myself, and Zaz (two of which I am quite certain are town, DDD will likely see what I mean here) and his hammer on caf was blatantly opportunistic.

If the majority of the town wanted Caf lynched instead of me, I shouldn't force them to make a suboptimal choice.

[Wall-E]

Timm... TIMMEH!

@Myk - Kindly outline your case on DDD.

Haaah.

2nding this.

I'll have more to post later (next week-ish)

[mykonian]

I have no case, except that I have with two players here a protown feel, and that just leaves 2.

[mykonian]

just because I hate to see it that low in the list.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

1) With even more power roles flipping, I agree with Spolium that the odds of scum having a RB are greatly increased to the point that Empking is back on my board and right at the top of my list as likely scum based on balance alone. And while I agree that Empking's behavior has been rather atrocious, but like yesterday I'm not sure if his "weak tunneling" is in fact a scum-tell and not just an Empking-tell.

2) I'm curious why mykonian seemingly only used his feelings from day one in deciding who scum would be. We had a long day two with tons of information, why would you forgo that and only use half of the information available to us in making reads at this point in the game?

[Empking]

I've just realized. We're almost surely on LyoL so we should probably mass claim.

[mykonian]

2) I'm curious why mykonian seemingly only used his feelings from day one in deciding who scum would be. We had a long day two with tons of information, why would you forgo that and only use half of the information available to us in making reads at this point in the game?

I have a lot trouble reading you. (well, seen from experience, I'm not that great on finding scum, I can find town though...). I'm very sure about spolium, that isn't going to change. But wall-e is not that sure.

I just remembered my feelings from then. It was the clearest thing I had till now.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I'm very sure about spolium, that isn't going to change. But wall-e is not that sure.

So you're completely unwilling to view alternative viewpoints in regards to Spolium. And you've already reversed field from saying scum had to be Emp and/or DDD to being "not sure" about Wall-E. I'm not liking either of those statements.

[Empking]

I'm very sure about spolium, that isn't going to change. But wall-e is not that sure.

So you're completely unwilling to view alternative viewpoints in regards to Spolium. And you've already reversed field from saying scum had to be Emp and/or DDD to being "not sure" about Wall-E. I'm not liking either of those statements.

I'm worried that you're likely scum but that makes a lot of sense.

[mykonian]

I'm very sure about spolium, that isn't going to change. But wall-e is not that sure.

So you're completely unwilling to view alternative viewpoints in regards to Spolium. And you've already reversed field from saying scum had to be Emp and/or DDD to being "not sure" about Wall-E. I'm not liking either of those statements.

I'm certainly not changing this for debatable signs from the mod. I have no meta on nonny. So, while I was sure, I've made the mistake more often to make myself stop from thinking because I see no other way.

[Spolium]

TIMMAh! immy Jaaargh balaibbabyy TIMMYyYYysaYYYywdyYYYY

@myk: How do you justify basing your scum reads on who you think is town, when town behaviour can be emulated?

@Emp: How are you? Tell me about your day.

@DDD: Who do you think are the remaining scum, and why?

@Wall-E: Post, goddamnit.

Timmahahausdygbewyhfbwu9rh98w4htu4t

[charter]

Wall-E has been prodded.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@DDD: Who do you think are the remaining scum, and why?

I think Empking is scum. I think with as many power roles as we've seen come out that scum has to have a roleblocker. With the knowledge of caf's alignment it becomes even harder to see why he would be blocked by a pro-town roleblocker since the transgressions I voted on primarily occurred on D2. Couple that with his voting history and I'm fairly certain he's scum.

Assuming there is in fact two scum left, I'm still a little uncertain between myk and Wall-E, but I'm leaning Wall-E.

Myk has had a bad start to this day, but there's little from the past two days between GW and him that makes me all that suspicious. As scum he easily could've stayed on the ZazieR bandwagon to try and get a pro-town player lynched, but he was the first one to shift targets; I have a hard time thinking scum would make things that much harder on themselves when there was an easier way forward for him.

Wall-E on the other hand spends much of the late day two "not getting a read on Empking" and continuously pushing a (now obviously) bad ZazieR lynch. Only when it's clear that the ZazieR lynch isn't going to happen does he pivot, profess general agreement with the caf case and votes him.

[mykonian]

spolium, if you were that good, and there is of course a small chance you are scum, then you fully deserve this win, because of your awesome play.

and I'm agreeing with DDD, I must have been wrong about Empking.

[mykonian]

DDD, how good are you as scum?

[Empking]

@DDD: Who do you think are the remaining scum, and why?

I think Empking is scum. I think with as many power roles as we've seen come out that scum has to have a roleblocker. With the knowledge of caf's alignment it becomes even harder to see why he would be blocked by a pro-town roleblocker since the transgressions I voted on primarily occurred on D2. Couple that with his voting history and I'm fairly certain he's scum.
.

This may seem crazy but I don't roleblock based on what you think.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@DDD: Who do you think are the remaining scum, and why?

I think Empking is scum. I think with as many power roles as we've seen come out that scum has to have a roleblocker. With the knowledge of caf's alignment it becomes even harder to see why he would be blocked by a pro-town roleblocker since the transgressions I voted on primarily occurred on D2. Couple that with his voting history and I'm fairly certain he's scum.
.

This may seem crazy but I don't roleblock based on what you think.

No, you seemingly roleblock based on the alignment of the moons of Jupiter or at least that'd be as logical as whatever convoluted theory you tossed out to us as your reasoning.