Wheel of Time Mafia: Rip in the Pattern (GAME OVER)

[MrBuddyLee]

@MBL: Oh yeah, I'm really scared of a Fos without any backing.

Again, your phrasing rings of scum to me. Earlier, you sat your vote on a lurker, to remain until he proves unworthy of it, and you won't bother looking into other players because it's "boring".

And now you tell me you're not scared of my FOS. If you were town, why would you be scared regardless? Your word choice shows me your mindset--you're scanning this thread looking for posts that threaten your safety, not looking for people's reasoning to help you ascertain their alignment.

Perhaps you're just not a very good player. I was about to vote you, but I don't want to frighten you before you leak some more clues.

[Kairyuu]

@Sajin: Read the thread. Albert is a claimed Aes Sedai, who also claims to have a partner. Also, in the Mini the two Aes Sedai were Neighbors.

@MBL:

Again, your phrasing rings of scum to me.

Heh. Heheheheheheheheh! Brilliant! Someone who wants to argue semantics! It's been SOOO long since I've found someone willing to do that. This should be FUN!

Earlier, you sat your vote on a lurker, to remain until he proves unworthy of it,

Explain to me, in detail, why keeping my vote on until my top suspect proves that I shouldn't be voting him (aka. until he defends himself sufficiently) is scummy.

and you won't bother looking into other players because it's "boring".

I never said that. I said I find it boring to play it safe, and that was specifically addressed to Albert in reference to a Newbie game we ICed together in which I dug up an old gambit used only once before and applied it to the game, which helped me nail the scum D1 and D2 respectively. Your twisting of my words is noted.

And now you tell me you're not scared of my FOS. If you were town, why would you be scared regardless? Your word choice shows me your mindset--you're scanning this thread looking for posts that threaten your safety, not looking for people's reasoning to help you ascertain their alignment.

This is totally coming out of left field. Because I said your expression of suspicion, which wasn't backed at all by reasoning, did not worry me, I must be scum? That is complete and total bullshit, and you know it. If I were scum doing what you say I am doing, then why would I bring up that it doesn't worry me. Why wouldn't I just focus on the things that actually DID "threaten my safety."

Also, how the hell am I supposed to look at your reasoning to ascertain your alignment, if your post contained NOTHING BUT AN FoS? What reasoning do you expect me to analyze, the reason why you picked bolded font over bold italics? This feels a bit like you are just looking for an excuse to suspect me.

Also, if Slicey flips scum, I am definitely going after you for chainsaw defense.

Perhaps you're just not a very good player.

Whooo. Let's bring in more ad hom then. Do NOT make personal attacks. I already addressed this with Benmage. I do not want to have to deal with it again with you. Back the fuck off with this right now.

@Benmage:

Ahh yeah missed this. Well than Yeah I go back to definitely believing the possible existence of black ajah. I never really found Kairyuu’s logic sound to begin with.

Bullshit. After I pointed out the issue with Fabian, you told me that if he flipped scum, you would be much more inclined to agree with me. This is called a LIE.

Also, interesting to note that now that other people are disagreeing with me, you are quick to flip-flop on the issue. This is scummy.

FoS: Benmage

Its not faulty information Black Ajah are technically AS, but they exist beyond the bounds (oaths) that the normal AS have. Back to the fact that Kinetic gave this same information, but in the mini made it open-ended (in the AS role descriptions of their partners) makes your logic flawed.

This comment fails to adress the issue I presented at all. You are merely spewing the flavor and the fact that the PMs in the mini made them Neighbors instead of Masons. My point is that Albert's bringing up rule number 2 does not apply here, because of the fact that the section I am drawing my conclusions from is not frim the RULES but from the KNOWLEDGE section. Therefore, Rule 2 does not apply to it.

He wasn’t AS he was Forsaken.

I did not say he was Aes Sedai. I said he was scum, and if he has Aes Sedai partners, he would have had access to the information that the Aes Sedai possess.

My only point is it seems illogical to throw out the possibility of black AS.

This is exactly the opposite of what you were saying during Twilight of D1 when I brought up the point about Fabian. Explain you switch.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Chainsaw defense?

[Kairyuu]

One of Tarhalindur's Standard Tells. It's when one scum gets attacked, and one of his buddies attacks the attacker in an attempt to shift the focus of the town off of the first scum. It's a pretty damn effective tactic if it isn't noticed, but at the same time it's quite a good indicator of scum if someone catches it.

[Mastermind of Sin]

lol, y'all have fancy names for this stuff these days. Back in my day, we called it "misdirection", but y'all have prolly never heard of that...

[julienvonwolfe]

I slept in the silo last night.

Also, I'm not sure what you're getting at with the Red Ajah angle.
Are you wondering if it's ABRs flavour to have to lynch claimed male channelers?
That in no way makes him scum, Red Ajah are what they are.

Okay. The sequence of events:

1) ABR said that all male AS go mad (the pedantic voice inside me insists that after the breaking there are no male AS, merely men who can channel).

To be wholly pedantic, we're right after the War of Power, so there's two types of male Aes Sedai right now - Forsaken and crazymen.

I stand corrected.

@all: I do not like the looks of Slicey right now. As soon as he is challenged, he backpedals immensely.

vote: Slicey

Reasons somewhere in the last page or two.

@all: We need more pressure on Slicey-scum. Preferably just the right amount of pressure to see him swing.

In fact, Slicey needs more votes. You guys should be voting Slicey, as, you know, he's scum and needs to die.

and I have been after Slicey since I declared intent during Twilight.

Hence, my attack is consistant

...

This is everything I found, the entirety of your "attack" on Slicey, one mention of backpedaling and a bunch of appeals to join you, which is akin to you standing off to the side of the gallows, jumping up and down, waving your arms frantically and shouting "HEY GUYS LOOK OVER HEEEERE"...

But hey, at least your "attack is consistant", nothing to see here right... you keep taking shots at the V/LA's, good sir.

Heh. Heheheheheheheheh! Brilliant! Someone who wants to argue semantics! It's been SOOO long since I've found someone willing to do that. This should be FUN!

You know, Kai is bugging me in this game. He wants to argue semantics, which I think is completely useless, and he was pushing for a Slicey lynch based on almost nothing.

But I'm not sure that he's my top subject. I'm going to read through the last few pages again and try to get a handle on the game - I'm more used to minis than games this size.

[MrBuddyLee]

Kairyuu. Tsk, tsk. For a control freak, you sure aren't taking much control of this game. Probably because you're scum.

you won't bother looking into other players because it's "boring".

I never said that. I said I find it boring to play it safe. Your twisting of my words is noted.

Actually, you said this:

I get like this when I either have few other leads I see as valid, or

I haven't really gotten immersed in a game yet.

currently I'm only confident that Albert and SpyreX are town, and that Slicey is scum.

You haven't gotten immersed in the game yet. aka you're bored and not trying to find scum. I don't think I'm twisting your words at all.

All you've done is:
1. Speculate about the existence of Black Ajah
2. Berate and suspect other people for not agreeing with you about Black Ajah
3. Complain about ad-hom while ad-homming left and right
4. Vote all D2 for a player who's posted two sentences of relevant content in two weeks

How about instead of trying to control everyone by bullying and swearing, you step up and actually give us opinions on some more players, with detailed reasoning.

Explain to me, in detail, why keeping my vote on until my top suspect proves that I shouldn't be voting him (aka. until he defends himself sufficiently) is scummy.

There's no safer vote than on a lurker that's only posted two sentences of relevant content in two weeks. Sure, Slicey could be scum, but there's very little evidence of that right now. You actually call him "scummy as hell", and say you're "confident he's scum" which is bizarre considering how little he's posted. So your lack of proportionality on the topic of Slicey plus your refusal to touch other players in the meantime is an indication to me that you don't really want to find scum all that badly. Or perhaps that you're scum busing your weak partner. (I just read your play as scum in another game. You're quick to bus weak partners, aren't you?)

vote: Kairyuu

Do you think SpyreX's play has been pro-town, or are you basing your confident read on him entirely on your knowledge of the channeler role from the WoT mini? Do you think that's a prudent thing to do? Do you think the mod would reprise roles and thus give people easily confirmable claims?

[Kison]

Updating locations quickly to see who hasn't claimed one, yet.

Barn

Faraday
Albert B. Rampage

Blacksmith

Kairyuu
Isacc
MrBuddyLee

River

Benmage
Yosarian2
Sajin
fuzzylightning
Slicey

Silo

Seraphim
julienvonwolfe
Mastermind of Sin

Wiindmill

Mr. Flay
MacavityLock
Mufasa
Kison

Stables

SpyreX

Unclaimed

Myndrunner
Tuberkulos

Myndrunner & Tuberkulos need prodding - both have produced very little content. I'm not eager to hop on the Slicey bandwagon just yet as many seem to have done - the guy has been V/LA for most of the game, and aside from his one scummy backtracking post, there is very little else to analyze. However, I expect a detailed post from him when he returns(which should be soon, right?).

So. Mufasa for Fabian's buddy anyone? The wording of that hammer post is really irking me.

@all: I do not like the looks of Slicey right now. As soon as he is challenged, he backpedals immensely. Either he or Mufasa will likely be my top suspect for D2.

Why have you only focused on Slicey, and not Mufasa, who you seemed to be fairly suspicious of, since these two posts that I am quoting right here? Have his more recent posts assuaged your suspicion of him? If so, then please explain how.

[Kairyuu]

@MBL:

Kairyuu. Tsk, tsk. For a control freak, you sure aren't taking much control of this game. Probably because you're scum.

I'm trying, but it's not working. It's kinda difficult to take control of a game when there aren't enough followers to sway.

You haven't gotten immersed in the game yet. aka you're bored and not trying to find scum. I don't think I'm twisting your words at all.

Except that you are twisting my words. By saying I haven't gotten immersed in the game yet, I mean that I don't find myself getting many strong reads yet, which is exactly what I said. Your "interpretation" is a complete misrepresentation of what I said.

1. Speculate about the existence of Black Ajah

Is this scummy? If yes, how so? If no, why are you stating the obvious?

2. Berate and suspect other people for not agreeing with you about Black Ajah

I have berated no one for not agreeing with me. The people that I berated, I did so because they were ignoring my points (Benmage). Everone else I have tried to convince.

Also, I did not suspect anyone for not agreeing with me. You have no way of backing up either of these accusations because I have not done what you accuse me of.

3. Complain about ad-hom while ad-homming left and right

Really? Prove it. I have tried to be as polite as possible. I want to see quotes of where I have used ad hom. You need to back up your points, because these baseless accusations are completely false.

4. Vote all D2 for a player who's posted two sentences of relevant content in two weeks

Two problems with this:

1. Day 2 has been going on for what, all of 3 or 4 days? The "all of D2" part of that has no merit.

2. So what if he has posted barely anything relevant? The stuff he did post was scummy, and I'm voting him until he either gets lynched, or clears up my suspicions (or someone else does something scummier than he has).

How about instead of trying to control everyone by bullying and swearing, you step up and actually give us opinions on some more players, with detailed reasoning.

I will give you more detailed reads of other players once I have them, which is what I have been saying. If you don't like that, then try to get me lynched.

Also, if my swearing bothers you, I will stop. I do not do it to offend, only to emphasize my points.

There's no safer vote than on a lurker that's only posted two sentences of relevant content in two weeks. Sure, Slicey could be scum, but there's very little evidence of that right now.

And how much "evidence" do you have on me? These few little snippets of baseless accusations? None of the things you are accusing me of I actually did, and the one thing I did do that you mentioned you can't prove is scummy because it isn't.

You actually call him "scummy as hell", and say you're "confident he's scum" which is bizarre considering how little he's posted.

This is WHAT I DO. Seriously. Meta me, and you will see the exact same attitude/word choice in practically all of my games.

So your lack of proportionality on the topic of Slicey plus your refusal to touch other players in the meantime is an indication to me that you don't really want to find scum all that badly.

Or maybe Slicey is my top suspect and that is why I am focusing on him.

Or perhaps that you're scum busing your weak partner. (I just read your play as scum in another game. You're quick to bus weak partners, aren't you?)

Which game are you talking about? I've only been scum twice, and in the first one I avoided bussing at all costs, and in the second I only bussed Empking because there was literally no way to avoid his lynch. If you are referring to blackcatcontract, that is called distancing, not bussing.

Do you think SpyreX's play has been pro-town, or are you basing your confident read on him entirely on your knowledge of the channeler role from the WoT mini?

I think that he has been acting strongly pro-town and actively scumhunting. The role claim lends confidence to my read, but it is a much more minor thing.

@JVW:

You know, Kai is bugging me in this game. He wants to argue semantics, which I think is completely useless, and he was pushing for a Slicey lynch based on almost nothing.

Arguing semantics is a fun pastime for me. When I was new, word-choice based scumtells were my favorite kind. The opportunity to brush off the old arguments was too good to pass up. Generally speaking I avoid that kind of argumentation nowadays though.

Also, how am I pushing for a Slicey lynch based on almost nothing? I have a strong scumtell on him, and he has yet to respond to it, even though he has given the indication that he knows what has been going on recently because he knew that we were claiming locations.

@MoS:

lol, y'all have fancy names for this stuff these days. Back in my day, we called it "misdirection", but y'all have prolly never heard of that...

Can't say that I have.

Also, I totally forgot you were in this game when I was addressing MBL. I was planning to tell you this at some point. I dug up your old doc gambit from the Pie E7 that you and Adel were ICing and applied it to the F11 setup in Newbie 750. It worked brilliantly. Caught scum D1 and D2 in an all vanilla setup.

@Kison:

Why have you only focused on Slicey, and not Mufasa, who you seemed to be fairly suspicious of, since these two posts that I am quoting right here?

I was suspicious of Mufasa for a gut suspicion I got from his hammer of Fabian. It was more minor than my suspicion of Slicey, so I decided not to pursue it. I may come back to it later, but more likely than not I won't unless he does something that I feel is a stronger scumtell.

Have his more recent posts assuaged your suspicion of him? If so, then please explain how.

Not really. I'm just less confident on my read of him than I am on my read of Slicey.

[Benmage]

@Benmage:

Ahh yeah missed this. Well than Yeah I go back to definitely believing the possible existence of black ajah. I never really found Kairyuu’s logic sound to begin with.

Bullshit. After I pointed out the issue with Fabian, you told me that if he flipped scum, you would be much more inclined to agree with me. This is called a LIE.

I was willing to entertain your theory. I still I am. Read the whole post where you quoted. I even underlined my main point. To believe in the possibility of the existence of Black AS. I am going back to my original thesis on the idea. Because I forgot about the role trumps rule ‘rule’ as well as my original point with the whole mini scenario black AS in the AS description. Just because I entertained your theory did not mean I completely rejected the idea. And yes I never found your theory that sound.

Anyways here’s the quote where I ‘agree’ with you.

Assuming Fab does flip scum (as someone mentioned we don't know his role yet) Than yes that is strong evidence that there may not be Black AS. Unless he acted irrationally without asking them, or if the df team doesn't know all their networks... However that is stretching speculation and if he does flip I scum I agree with your probable assumption of no black AS.

I said it’s a probable assumption that there aren’t black AS. And yes your theory is possible. I understand where it makes sense. If there are black AS they would have warned Fabian that they did not detect Saidar. I got it… And when I made that post that’s

How I felt

. But it didn’t sit well with me. Are we not a lot to change opinions without being hounded for ‘flip-flopping’?? There still exists certain options open: Fabian possibly making a poor play, posting rashly or the df team not knowing all its members. A lot of speculation here that I don’t want to get into. I just have a real eerie feeling in a game this size with as many ‘claimed’ and assumed AS roles that there are going to be Black AS.

Its not faulty information Black Ajah are technically AS, but they exist beyond the bounds (oaths) that the normal AS have. Back to the fact that Kinetic gave this same information, but in the mini made it open-ended (in the AS role descriptions of their partners) makes your logic flawed.

This comment fails to adress the issue I presented at all. You are merely spewing the flavor and the fact that the PMs in the mini made them Neighbors instead of Masons. My point is that Albert's bringing up rule number 2 does not apply here, because of the fact that the section I am drawing my conclusions from is not frim the RULES but from the KNOWLEDGE section. Therefore, Rule 2 does not apply to it.

Ugh…your ignoring my point. Wonderful in the main description Kinetic says AS are bound by the oaths. WHY THE hell would he make it open ended in their character descriptions than???

My only point is it seems illogical to throw out the possibility of black AS.

This is exactly the opposite of what you were saying during Twilight of D1 when I brought up the point about Fabian. Explain you switch.

This isn’t the opposite… I entertained your idea. I think it is a possibility. I however feel that AS existence is still a possibility ASWELL. SOryy My mind isn’t 100% set one way or the other. But this is quite the controversial issue. And again let me reiterate that in a game of this magnitude I have the eerie feeling Black AS exist.

You know, Kai is bugging me in this game. He wants to argue semantics, which I think is completely useless

Yes, his semantic style is quite frustrating. His whole point his based off a semantic made by the host.

@Kair I disagree with your stylistic approach and absolutism in your theory. The way you come across seems so ‘superior’ like you “conquered” me when I said your theory was merely probable.

MBL point is quite nice #2 where you berate others. As you did me. It was annoying and constant. I agreed with the possibility in your theory. And I am by no means ignoring it, but I don’t think it is the leading theory anymore, and I am more inclined to be wary of black AS.

Really? Prove it. I have tried to be as polite as possible. I want to see quotes of where I have used ad hom. You need to back up your points, because these baseless accusations are completely false.

Rofl.

I am going to ignore you until you either die or get replaced.

you are what people call an asshat.

Stop trying to ruin other people's enjoyment and back the fuck off already.

For saying what…you suck. An opinion of a person’s skill is a valid statement. You took quite personally.

Perhaps you're just not a very good player.

Back the fuck off with this right now.

So aggressive when someone questions your skill level…geeze

@Albert: That theory is based on just as much speculation as mine is. You cannot argue that yours is any better.

So you admit your theory is speculation? Cause you seemed real convinced and absolute of it beforehand?? Caught in a lie?

Vote Kairyuu FoS Kairyuu

your semantic play-style is unhelpful. Your aggressive rude and demanding. Your unbending (post 897). You seem quite characteristic of scum play imo.

[Benmage]

oh ya

Unvote Spryex

I believe my vote was on him

[Yosarian2]

Ok, back to re-reading; sorry I didn't have time the last few days. I'm on page 15 right now.

If you don't want any more claims today, there is an easy solution. Let's go back to lynching Fabian, who claimed at like Lynch Minus 10. Not only that, but he claimed doctor and claimed ability results that could not be confirmed by anybody. It's pretty much a classic scum claim if you look at it mechanically and ignore the flavor (which is fairly generic and easily faked for this theme).

"Back" to lynching Fabian? When were we doing that to begin with?

I don't understand your reasoning at all. Fabian's claim was utterly retarded. At L-10 it pretty much screwed him over. You're saying that's classic scum claim? A

bad

claim is classic scum? I thought scum

want

to survive?

Ugh. Issac continues to defend the scum here, and this one is a very bad, crap-logic defense. Baiscally "Fabian just make a really bad claim; scum wouldn't make a bad claim, because that would look scummy!" This is wrong on so many levels.

For one thing, just a few pages ago, Issac was defending Favian because:

2. His claim is pretty solid. Wisdoms existed simply as town healers. (Well...and weathermen).

So, now you're claiming that his claim was "bad", and somehow "screwed him over"? He claimed doctor, with flavor that made sense. Scum love to do that, for various reasons.

Fos:Issac

This continues defense of Fabian is really a red flag. Issac is now doing whatever he can to prevent a lynch of scum-Fabian, bending logic and everything. Which actually would make perfect sense in an "Issac-is-scum-with-Fabian" scenerio, especally considering I would guess a Forsaken would be likely to have some really powerful scum abilities, so it wouldn't surprise me if they took some risks to keep him alive.

Plus I have a simple counter-argument. Why lynch a claimed doctor

day 1

? If he is lying and is secretly an anti-town power role, I think we can afford to let him live 1 more day

at least

. However, if he is honest (which, he probably is) then lynching him today means killing off a town power role for the scum and 1 less protective role.

Fair, but that's exactally why scum do claim doc. So why were you just saying that he made a "very bad claim"?

Anyway, some more back and fourth discussion about the "should we lynch the future SK" thing...

Your extensive experience?

Your extensive experience should tell you that scum lynches are preferable to SK lynches.

This, by the way, is completely 100% wrong. A SK IS a scum, and lynching a SK on day 1>lynching a mafia member on day 1, since it gets rid of an nightkill right away, especally since SK's tend to want to kill off stuff like power roles and confirmed townies. Lynching a SK day 1 is one of the best things a town can do; extra kills tend to hurt the town more then the scum, and in any case if you eliminate the chance of a SK winning it automatically increases the chances of the town winning.

Now, I can see how it might be reasonable to consider keeping Spyrex alive as being an option if he might not become a SK, especally if he's gentiled and someone else will know he's gentiled or whatever. However, you trying to claim that lynching a SK is somehow a bad town stratagy or whatever is just completly wrong.

Page 16: Albert is making sense here. KoC is not, and KoC's vote for Albert makes even less.

Also, Albert gives a hypothetical here to explain why he's rather lynch Spyrex today then run up some more people, and Issac uses it to rolefish at him.

You bandwagon me to L-2, I claim an extremely important power role.

This is badposting.

1. You are wifoming the poop out of us, as we have no reason to believe you

are

an extremely important power role.

2. If you ARE an extremely important power role, you just outed yourself anyways. Nice job. Epic fail.

So, Albert makes a post that is either an innocent hypothetical or is a breadcrumb that he has a power role, so you decide to point it out and make a huge deal about it? More scummy posting from Issac here.

Like, see, I'm more and more confident about Issac and SK being town with each post.

Why, because they're defending you? Hint: Even if you are town, just because someone is defending you, dosn't make that person town.

Role-claim time!

I claim Aes Sedai. I'm in a pair of Aes Sedai.

Ugh. More power roles claiming. Seems a little early for a claim, but Albert does have a habit of claiming early when he gets pressured.

We should have you lynched just for being dumb enough to claim already.

You are a hypocrite for crying about us outing roles AND THEN OUTING YOURSELF

THEN WHY THE HELL DID YOU MAKE SUCH A BIG DEAL OUT OF POINTING OUT HIS BREADCRUMB.

I call bullshit on this.

Did I force you to claim? No. Not in the least.

Actually, when you make a huge point of pointing out someone's breadcrumb, while voting them and attacking them, you kind of are forcing them to claim, yeah. That's basically how you force someone to claim, if you're scum and want to out a pro-town power role.

Issac then asks if we can "force-replace" Albert, for being "uncooperative", which is just, ugh. Why should he co-operate with you, when you look like scum?

As of End of page 17, I'm really leaning towards voting Issac.

[Kinetic]

We got word back from one of the groups we sent out to other villages. It seems that their town wisdom was murdered a few weeks back. How tragic...

- From the Journal of Jardor Calol

I sent out a few prods two days ago on some absent players. I may have to replace them if I don't see responses soon...

The Fifteenth Vote Count

1. (2)
   Mr. Flay - armlx, MrBuddyLee
   
2. (3)
   Isacc - SpyreX, MacavityLock, Kison
   
3. (0) fuzzylightning -
   
4. (0) MacavityLock -
   
5. (0) Seraphim -
   
6. (0) julienvonwolfe -
   
7. (0) Benmage -
   
8. (2)
   Kairyuu - MrBuddyLee, Benmage
   
9. (0) Yosarian2 -
   
10. (0) Albert B. Rampage -
    
11. (1)
    armlx - Albert B. Rampage
    
12. (2)
    Slicey - Kairyuu, Mr. Flay
    
13. (0) Mastermind of Sin -
    
14. (0) Tuberkulos -
    
15. (0) Moratorium -
    
16. (0) Mufasa -
    
17. (0) SpyreX -
    
18. (0) Myndrunner -
    
19. (0) Faraday -
    
20. (0) Sajin -
    
21. (0) MrBuddyLee -
    
22. (0) Kison -

Votes Required to Lynch:

12

Not Voting (20): Mr. Flay, Isacc, fuzzylightning, Seraphim, julienvonwolfe, Cyberbob, Yosarian2, armlx, Slicey, Mastermind of Sin, Tuberkulos, Moratorium, Shadow Knight, Mufasa, , Myndrunner, Faraday, Sajin

FoS Count

1. (1)
   Mr. Flay - Mastermind of Sin
   
2. (1)
   Isacc - Yosarian2
   
3. (0) fuzzylightning -
   
4. (0) MacavityLock -
   
5. (0) Seraphim -
   
6. (0) julienvonwolfe -
   
7. (1)
   Benmage - Kairyuu
   
8. (3)
   Kairyuu - Moratorium, MrBuddyLee, Benmage
   
9. (0) Yosarian2 -
   
10. (0) Albert B. Rampage -
    
11. (0) armlx -
    
12. (0) Slicey -
    
13. (1)
    Mastermind of Sin -
    
14. (1)
    Tuberkulos - Sajin
    
15. (0) Moratorium -
    
16. (1)
    Mufasa - Kison
    
17. (2)
    SpyreX - Benmage, Isacc
    
18. (0) Myndrunner -
    
19. (0) Faraday -
    
20. (0) Sajin -
    
21. (2)
    MrBuddyLee - Albert B. Rampage, SpyreX
    
22. (0) Kison -

Not FoSing (20): Mr. Flay, Isacc, fuzzylightning, MacavityLock, Seraphim, julienvonwolfe, Cyberbob, Kairyuu, Yosarian2, armlx, Slicey, Mastermind of Sin, Tuberkulos, Moratorium, Mufasa, SpyreX, Myndrunner, Faraday, Sajin, Kison

Current Deadline:

May 20, 2009 at ~11:59 PM EDT (GMT -4)

First Mod Deadline Review:

May 13, 2009 at ~11:59 PM EDT (GMT -4)

[Yosarian2]

Page 19:

If I can detect Saidar, and ABR can detect Saidar, then I would be of the strong mindset that other Aes Sedai can detect it as well.

I'm guessing some of you out there also know someone was weaving Saidar today, otherwise I would have had a lot more people who "didn't believe my claim", know what I mean?

But I'll humour you and wait for ABR to say it.

Yes, because Aes Sedai are so eager to reveal themselves to your scumpartner by pushing for your lynch, right? Nice try.

:Good posting:

I don't get why Shadow Knight is trying so hard to try and get ALbert to tell the town what the white Aes Sedi ability is. SK, don't you think there's a danger in scum knowing what abilities the town has? I mean, at the very LEAST, if Albert has this information and does not share it, he can then use it to confirm anyone else who claimes white Aes Sedi.

Well since its so transparent and Albert is going to be stupid and not answer it, I am also Aes Sedai. My partner, who I will not divulge at this time is also White Ajeh

...Oh. Well, shit. SK, why the hell did you just claim? SOOO anti-town...

Also, frankly, if we did want the two of them to claim here to confirm the other one, I'd rather see SK claim first. Albert seems obvtown here, and did even before he claimed. SK, on the other hand, just claimed for absolutly no reason, and that's scummy.

SK continues to demand info from Albert...his whole attitude here really dosn't make sense to me. Even if Albert was a black Aes Sedi, I'm assuming he would STILL have a Aes Sedi partner, right? So how does proving he has an Aes Sedi partner accomplish anything at this point?

And now SK is talking about STILLING Albert, basically taking someone who is probably a pro-town role and making them into a vanillia townie? Seriously?

Lynch Fabian, he lied about his ability and is trying to get away with it.

MOS is almost certanly not scum with Fabian, IMHO.

Are you even paying attention? We already caught scum in Fabian, who lied about his ability to detect Saidar and has been counterclaimed by two Aes Sedai.

This is exactly what I am talking about with role speculation.

You are professing a lynch, not on a basis of scumtells, but on the basis of a roleclaim. I dislike this.

This post is SOOOOO scummy. Issac, if the town has *ROLE BASED INFORMATION* that strongly implies that Fabien is probably lying scum, for several reasons, why would you want to ignore that in favor of some weak day 1 situational scumtells?

And even this would be bad enough, except you haven't actually even been pointing out scumtells; all you've done is defened Fabien, and argued with Albert about tactics.

Even if Fabian is scum, that doesn't prove anything about ABR and SK and far from clears their names.

This line of this post bothers me as well.

Flay defends Fabien a little here as well, disagreeing with MOS's problems with Fabian's claim.

Anyway, bandwagon forms on Fabian, Fabian changes his claim into something absurd.

And then more abusurd.

And then he claims death miller, hahahaha

And then he claims supersaint...oh, man, this is the funniest defense I've ever seen.

I'm an Orc from the Warhammer 40k Universe.
I have been sent back in time to help you people find scum with my superior technology.

Hammering me will be considered an act of war, expect a full scale invasion.

Ok, at this point I'm pretty sure Fabian just gave up on this game and just wanted to go for the "funniest roleclaim" scummy instead.

Ok, Fabian lynched, Issac starts his defense against defending obv scum.

Am I the only one who finds Isacc's defense of Fabian pretty damning at this point?

1.) I never "defended" Fabian. I had no reason to disbelieve the claim, especially when the two "counterclaims" were from people I had no reason to trust. I didn't defend him however, I simply chose not to support the lynch.

Um, yes, you did. You argued hard against his lynch, using incresingly bad logic, throught the course of the game. Even after it had become clear that he was lying based on role information, you still kept defending him.

2.) Not supporting a lynch is a pretty weak scumtell, regardless of who is lynched. I could just as reasonably claim that some of the people on Fabian's wagon were scum bussing.

Bad WIFOM defense here.
Defending a scum is pretty much the best example of a pure scumtell there is.

3.) Now, I may be arrogant here, but I'm a bit insulted by how stupid you must think I am. Let's say I was scum and Fabian was one of my buddies. Do you honestly think I would support him through an obviously false claim that he detected the one power?

Sure, if you thought you could either prevent his lynch, or if you thought town would be foolish enough to accept this kind of defense afterwards.

Moral of the story is, consider motivations. Do you honestly think I would act this way if I was scum?

Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Also, yes. Scum do try to prevent their scumbuddies from being lynched. Especally if said scumbuddy has powerful role abilities you don't want to lose, and, blood and ashes, Fabian was a Forsaken; if a Forsaken dosn't have cool abilities, who would?

[Yosarian2]

All caught up.

Vote:Isacc

Lots of scummy posts, as I pointed out in my summeries, but the biggest thing is the constant, unrelenting, and at times illogical defense of a scum all day yesterday. The weak "I wouldn't defend a scum if I was scum because that would look scummy" defense today is completly unconvincing.

[Yosarian2]

Right, right, forgot the whole red thing.

Vote:Isacc

[Yosarian2]

Oh; I typed this out while I was rereading, then forgot to post it somehow. Eh, I'll post it now.

If you're stupid enough to not realize Fabian is scum when you're town, then you're stupid enough to support him when everyone else realizes he's scum. You're not really making a good case for your intelligence, here.

That's terrible logic, insulting, wrong, and doesn't actually prove any point. Good job.

No, it's not. Anyway, you can't complain about being insulted when your own bloody defense was

I'd have to mentally challenged to not bus a partner who was dumb enough to make that mistake

Your DEFENSE was "I'd have to be dumb to defend Fabian if I was scum". So if he response is"You'd have to be dumber to not attack Fabian if you were town", not only is that logical, you don't really have any grounds to compain about being insulted.

[MrBuddyLee]

This leads me to believe there's no way Isacc is Fabian's scumpartner:

Next, DO NOT lynch Fabian. I have about 100 reasons for this (exaggeration...)

2. His claim is pretty solid. Wisdoms existed simply as town healers. (Well...and weathermen).

Unless he is an utter and absolute newbie.


This leads me to believe Isacc knows too much about the way nightkills work in this game:

3. With the ability to sleep in different areas, there is a chance that a killing role does not pick the same place as him and thus he may be safe from death this night.

And that he IS a complete newbie for tipping his hand.

FOS: Isacc

[Kairyuu]

@Benmage: You have not made a case against me. The beginning of your post plays both sides of the issue you are trying to address, and then you voted me because you don't like my attitude, and are trying to play it off that because I am agressive (not a scumtell) rude (not true, and not a scumtell even if you want to argue that it is) and demanding (not a scumtell) I must be scum. You also say that my semantic plan is unhelpful (not a scumtell). I am also apparently unbending (not a scumtell).

This is textbook OMGUS, and now that you think you have some decent support on your side you think you can get away with attacking me.

[Benmage]

Well i tried to avoid the fact that you also suck.. because you'll complain again..curse and throw a temper-tantrum.

I think that your gross attentiveness to the semantic statement in the introduction is an attempt to cause a distraction and throw off the town. You’ve berated me enough about it. Yet ignore everyone else who also finds your logic faulty. In fact if you’ve felt so strongly about it why haven’t you been pushing the issue on just about everyone?

Everything I listed encompasses your overall play and is a scum-tell for me.

There was one vote and two FoS…crazzzzy wagon (sarcasm)

[Seraphim]

Hey guys. I may be coming out of V/LA...this is my first priority. I'm going to catch up and lay down some serious postage.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Yos2 caught a lot of contradictions in Isacc's play that I didn't see the first time around, especially the sudden flip from "Fabian's claim is pretty solid" to "Fabian's claim was utterly retarded" in the next few pages. That tips the scales for me.

Vote: Isacc

[fuzzylightning]

Currently V/LA until Monday, been busy with moving out and driving back, and tomorrow is Mother's Day

[Mastermind of Sin]

Rereading the MBL/Kairyuu exchange at the top of this page leads me to

FoS: Kairyuu

I agree that Kairyuu seems to be looking for things to threaten him personally when he reads, rather than looking for things that threaten the town (ie scum)

[armlx]

MoS + Yos say things I can get behind. Flay is still interesting to monitor though. I like MBL's last point a lot though.

Unvote, Vote Isaac