Newbie 744 -- Game Over!

[alexhans]

EBWOP: @RAiv... Care to comment on yesterday's events? Who do you think may be scum? Why were you absent? Didn't you know it was deadline day?

[Yaw]

Porkens replaces ZazieR.

Vote Count:

Not Voting: Raivann, alexhans, knox, Conspicuous_other, Porkens

3 to lynch.

[Porkens]

Howdy, I've replaced ZazieR!

So, y'all got 1 scum and 4 town left. That's all I can tell from this page

I'll do a brief re-read tomorrow and get some initial thoughts posted.

[knox]

Silly scum leaving us in a huge pile of WIFOM! Nonetheless I have come up with a few possible scenario’s after this fiasco which could help figure out who the other scum is.

These are the scum partners I could see Kmd having:

Zazie/Porkens – Kmd gave a last attempt to prove he was town by claiming cop and saying Zazie was scum when she was his scum partner. This could have been a perfect way to clear his name. As this would now make it to appear as though there is a cop in the game, the other players would assume he was being role blocked at night in the future and he could ride out the game on day lynches. However this is flawed as Role blockers can also kill I think, so why wouldn’t they just kill the so called cop? It's not solid but it could work. This could also explain why Zazie replaced out of the game. Though far-fetched it could be possible and could also explain Kmd’s comment during the process of his lynch.

Just checked. It's an actual lynch.

I just want to say I think I'm done playing newbie games after this. I played terribly and don't deserve to be an IC.

Raivann – Yet again on my list. I still find him suspicious for the reasons previously stated but with Kmd flipping scum a few more details have been drawn to my attention. Throughout the game Kmd has been giving his opinions on many of the discussions brought up however Zazie brought up this point which I found interesting:

@Kevin: Due to Knox last post, I saw the Raivann case from Ash. It's based upon Raivann not having a stance. What's your reason for not giving a comment about this?

His jump to the blueshadow wagon was interesting, as charter mentioned earlier the CntR wagon was stalling and blue had just made a pretty big blunder. It was an opportunistic wagon and considering Kmd’s position on it as third to Raivann first seems interesting also. It's like it was purposely done to give a bit of distance.

His absence during the deadline does not work in his favour either especially when considering him scum with Kmd.

There is still much to consider and discover so I will leave you with this to think on for now. However I’m still happy with a vote on Raivann.

Vote Raivann

[Porkens]

mmmmk. I apologize in advance for the almost complete lack of post #s for reference. If anyone wants to challenge where something comes from, feel free and I'll do my best to find it again. I wanted to get something up sooner rather than later.

I concentrated on two things during my re-read. First, I looked at how folks interacted with KMD and visa-versa, and jotted down things that stuck out to me. In addition, I looked for general scumtells from everyone who was still alive. Interactions (or lack thereof) with KMD are bolded.

Day 1

Raivann (replacing MotandsArm)

2. Raivann backs down fast from his possition on Mizz after questioned by KMD.
   
3. blueshadow with a crap vote on raivann, kmd doesnt jump on him.
   
4. Raivann never talks directly to KMD

[Porkens]

oh, and PS: Charter = THE MAN in this game. 'till he came along you were all mostly slerpin on KMD's junk. Well done, sir.

[alexhans]

I'm planning on giving my opinions about the last posts in a detailed way. But I'm busy right now. Maybe in 6 hs or so. Nobody hammer anyone while I'm gone.

[alexhans]

@Porkens:

I'll do a brief

re-read

tomorrow and get some initial thoughts posted.

Does this mean you were following the game?
-----------------

Raivann (replacing MotandsArm)

Raivann backs down fast from his possition on Mizz after questioned by KMD.

ok.

blueshadow with a crap vote on raivann, kmd doesnt jump on him.

But he did say this:

blueshadow should explain his vote too, but I don't suspect him for the unexplained vote as it doesn't place Raiv at L-1 like CnT's vote on Ash.

Raivann never talks directly to KMD

This is something I noted too. Although he asked him maybe 1 or 2 questions he stood as far away as possible.

Raivann is happy voting for Mizz's replacement, riding the easily justifiable lynch.

mmm... But he unvotes and goes for CnrT instead for putting ash at L-1...

Raivann qualifies a lot in 138

qualifies what exactly? 138... I don't see anything particularly scummy here.

Raivann is trying to look town.

What's the point of this statement? Don't we all wanna look town? What town would like to look scum?

alexhans

KMD sucks Alex's penis a bit in 62.

On Alex, I buy his explanation for the no-vote. I'm not calling him town yet, but I'm not going to call him scummy for an honest mistake.

so? Didn't it look like an honest mistake? Did you read my explanation?

Alexhans white knights careful voting.

...??? white knights???

knox (replacing syndromeofadown)

SoaD is overcautios about putting Mizz at l-2

we were just starting the game... what's your point?

Conspicuous_other (replacing CntRational)

KMD half-way attacks CnT.

What do you mean half-way? what gives you that impression?

Cnt asks for suspicions on himself. KMD distances.

Cntr could be scum, contradicting himself from "I'm ascared of L-2" to "lets get this going" and putting ash at L-1

What do you think regarding the fact that KMD pushed his case first thing in the 2nd day?

Day 2

Raivann (replacing MotandsArm)

Raivann calls KMD pro-town

I did too. the important thing might be when did that happen.

Raivaan votes with KMD on CntR

Ok. But:

I think CntR is scummiest by far out of all players left and he would have gotten my vote yesterday if blue wasn't asking for it with his antitown scummy posts. Ash may have hammered a little quick but I can understand.

More hugging with KMD by Raivann

He hugged you too for that matter.

Raivann (finally) OMGUS's knox.

THIS, is really fishy.

alexhans

Alex humps KMD again.

Vulgar Slang To engage in sexual intercourse with.

...
err... no I didn't... What do you EXACTLY mean and where do you think happened.

alex slurps on KmD's ... "90 null"

Again, hard to see what you're talking about.

alex votes for KMD.

This was a try-to-get-a-reaction-vote as I've explained... It wasn't consistent with the post where I was voting him. Anyway, it turned out that upon re-read of the whole game I did find him scummy along with Raiv and Charter.

Alex jumps on the hammerer, but doesn't vote.

yeah. I wasn't really convinced of KMD being scum until I realized that scum knew they were no cops. And by that time Knox and Charter had already lynched him. And even if I was I would've liked to hear from Raiv.

knox (replacing syndromeofadown)

KMD weakly defends SoaD

Indeed. He said he didn't see the case but didn't state why.

SoaD buddies up to KMD

? If we know KMD is scum... why would you say SoaD was buddying him?

Knox attacks Raivann post 311, doesn't mention KMD at all.

mmm... so?

Knox ignores the case on KMD and goes after Raivann instead (still, again)

So? (still, again)

Conspicuous_other (replacing CntRational)

Conspicuous_other lurk lurk lurk non-contribute

I agree that his activity has been somewhat low. He has posted only 7 times but he usually made points in his posts. It wasn't non-contribution as you say.

CO votes KMD

With reasoning.
------------
--------------

Conclusion
Raivann is a great lynch today. He's been conspicous in his lack of confrontation with KMD. I'm slightly worried, though, because Knox has been so strongly going after Raivann that it borders on tunnel-vision, which is a scumtell in many instances. However, we do have a misslynch (we wont loose if we pick wrong today) so I'm fine with my initial reaction to the read which is;

vote: Raivann

Tomorrow, I'd hang Knox for his tunnel vision, or, just as happily, C-O for his predecessor's hypocrisy and his own lurking.

I suspect mainly Raiv.
Then I don't know wether you or Knox are scummier because you could've been bussed and it could totally work.
And finally Conspic is my less likely lynch because I found hard to believe that KMD would buss him so much.

Oh, and...

Where is everyone else?

[alexhans]

WHERE THE

BLEEEP

IS EVERYBODY????

I'm voting Raiv if he doesn't come up and say anything soon.

[Porkens]

I am here, but, unfortunately, I've felt awful the last couple of days. I'm glad to see such an in-depth reply from Alexhans. I'll try to address each main point, as I perceive them. If my responses are brief, please understand that I'm trying not to have a point-by-point argument right now, I just want to clarify the questions. If the following lacks full clarity, please let me know!

First off; no, I wasn't following the game. "re-read" was just a poor choice of words.

Raivann was consistent in getting on the wagons (even preemptively) that were obviously going to draw a lot of attention. Sticking to his Mizz vote and getting on the CtN wagon were basically the same type of move; voting for the person who the town would obviously go after next. That's mostly my gut talking, but that's how it came off to me.

"Qualifying" language includes things like "perhaps," "maybe," and "seems." In the post I indicated, Raivann even points out his own qualifying language as a defense, noting that they should put him above suspicion. This is exactly why qualifying language is a scumtell.

The whole "trying to look town" thing is a minor scumtell. Of course it's not a big tell, but it's also not a null-tell. Scum want to look

more

town than town do. Since scum have more of a reason to look town, "trying to look town" is a minor scumtell.

About your interactions with KMD: it doesn't matter if it looked like an honest mistake to me; the important fact is that KMD announced that it was a mistake, thusly washing potential suspicion off of you, and that is a form of defense.

If I've offended anyone with my "vulger" language, I do apologize. It isn't meant to be literal, at all, and of course it wasn't intended to put anyone off their pudding. "makes out with," "humps," "hugs," "slurps the junk of," "crawls into the nutsack of," and "lovingly and tenderly embraces" are all synonymous with "buddies up to."

In your case, I believe there was a post in which you wrote something to the effect of "KMD is really pro-town," or "KMD makes a really good point." This, now that we know KMD is scum, is a point to take note of. Of course it isn't a big scumtell, but it's a little/minor one. If you'd like me to find the exact post that made me take pause, let me know and I'll take a look for it.

"White-Knighting" is a term used for a player who defends or supports something strongly, like a chivalrous Knight will defend a damsel in distress from an evil dragon. Frequently, the object of the "White Knighting" is an

obviously

good idea, such as in your case when you defended "careful voting."

I know there are a couple/few things I haven't specifically addressed, but lets start with these.

Thoughts?

-Pork

[alexhans]

Raivann was consistent in getting on the wagons (even preemptively) that were obviously going to draw a lot of attention. Sticking to his Mizz vote and getting on the CtN wagon were basically the same type of move; voting for the person who the town would obviously go after next. That's mostly my gut talking, but that's how it came off to me.

This is a tough call. I tend to agree with you because of his general gameplay. Cautious all game long can be a scum sign.

"Qualifying" language includes things like "perhaps," "maybe," and "seems." In the post I indicated, Raivann even points out his own qualifying language as a defense, noting that they should put him above suspicion. This is exactly why qualifying language is a scumtell.

um... I qualify language as town... When they misrep my semantics I usually qualify...

If I've offended anyone with my "vulger" language, I do apologize. It isn't meant to be literal, at all, and of course it wasn't intended to put anyone off their pudding. "makes out with," "humps," "hugs," "slurps the junk of," "crawls into the nutsack of," and "lovingly and tenderly embraces" are all synonymous with "buddies up to."

Oh, Ok. I wasn't offended. It's just that english is not my native language and I had to look up some of those words to see if they implied something else other than being too friendly or something.

In your case, I believe there was a post in which you wrote something to the effect of "KMD is really pro-town," or "KMD makes a really good point." This, now that we know KMD is scum, is a point to take note of. Of course it isn't a big scumtell, but it's a little/minor one. If you'd like me to find the exact post that made me take pause, let me know and I'll take a look for it.

It's logical that you suspect me for agreeing with KMD or thinking him town. Unfortunately, I really did. This is definetly not my best game. But at least with the coming of the replacements and my re-read I was able to open my mind a bit. But the fake claim completely befuddled me. I'm used to claims being true (or fake claimed by VI), this came as quite a shock (and a good learning experience).

"White-Knighting" is a term used for a player who defends or supports something strongly, like a chivalrous Knight will defend a damsel in distress from an evil dragon. Frequently, the object of the "White Knighting" is an obviously good idea, such as in your case when you defended "careful voting."

Noted. I'm a cool knight.

Mod: Prod Raiv & Conspic please

Knox still has a day.

[Porkens]

Porkens wrote:

"Qualifying" language includes things like "perhaps," "maybe," and "seems." In the post I indicated, Raivann even points out his own qualifying language as a defense, noting that they should put him above suspicion. This is exactly why qualifying language is a scumtell.

um... I qualify language as town... When they misrep my semantics I usually qualify...

It's not an iron-clad tell, for sure, but it stood out so much in that post that it caught my attention. Ultimately, it's just heaped on the pile.

Rav needs to post, but I notice that he isn't posting

anywhere

on the site at this time, so I wonder if he's just dropped off the face of the MS earth, along with everyone else in the game !

[alexhans]

Yeah... I noticed it too.

What have players been doing?

Conspic

last posted in this game: Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:36 am
while he posted in MS: Fri May 01, 2009 9:00 pm

Raiv

: Last posted here and probably died a horrible death...

Knox

: last posted in this game: Sun May 03, 2009 9:21 am
while he posted in MS: Wed May 06, 2009 1:51 pm (and posted 4,5,6 too)

Zaz

: I still don't know why she replaced.

In addition, ZazieR has requested replacement as of this morning. She sends along the message that she enjoyed it a lot and wants to wish everyone a great game as long as it lasts. I'll try to get a replacement for her as soon as I can.

She is playing everywhere else in this site and I don't think she was replaced elsewhere... an IC being replaced is wrong. And it really makes me suspicious of her to quit for no reason.

KMD Bussed her? KMD lied about the possibility of 2 IC's being scum? Maybe.

@Knox: I need you too say state who would you vote today and tomorrow if you had too choose (Nevermind the night kill)

In fact
@everyone: Choose 1 lynch for today and 1 for tomorrow (Suppose there is no NK).

[Yaw]

Mod: Prod Raiv & Conspic please

Knox still has a day.

That was my exact calculation as of yesterday. Just had to wait for them to reach 5 days of gameplay with the thread open.

At any rate, Raivann and Conspicuous_Other have been prodded (no posts for 5 days).

[Yaw]

Conspicuous_other has requested replacement. I'll get one as soon as possible.

[Yaw]

wake4me4life replaces Conspicuous_other.

[wake4me4life]

So i need a bit of help. when is the next deadline?

[knox]

Welcome wake4me4life, I’m not sure when the deadline, I had a look to find it but couldn’t sorry.

Hey sorry I’m back now.

@Knox: I need you too say state who would you vote today and tomorrow if you had too choose (Nevermind the night kill)

Um is it odd that I find this slightly suspicious? I look at it and think that answering this would give the mafia, if they still live, a good idea of who to NK as they will probably keep the players under more suspicion in the game and possibly other strategies considering the results. To me it looks as though it will help the mafia more than the town. Or am I just paranoid? Well I have already said who I’m voting today, Raivann, at this stage and am unsure about tomorrow.

@Porkens – You say I am tunnel visioning however you have very similar points to me regarding Raivann. I named my suspicions and answered questions that people posed to me about them. Would you say charter was tunnel visioning? Because I think we posted our opinions in kind of similar ways.

[Yaw]

No deadline at the moment. Day 3 only started a week ago, so it's a few weeks off yet.

[alexhans]

Um is it odd that I find this slightly suspicious? I look at it and think that answering this would give the mafia, if they still live, a good idea of who to NK as they will probably keep the players under more suspicion in the game and possibly other strategies considering the results

No. At this moment I feel we need to lay our cards on the table. It's like a massclaim.
I'm afraid that if Raiv isn't scum everybody is going to squirm around their suspicions tomorrow. Suddenly they won't suspect the dead person but conveniently suspect a lot the alive people. That's why I'd like to introduce us into this "dangerous road" of WIFOM, you might say.
I prefer people discussing and stating their evidence now than waiting for an hipothetical tomorrow where they might be dead. Especially when Conspic seemed to be absent. Anyway, now that he is being replaced I think we can wait a bit longer.

@wake4me4life: Welcome! Take your time to read and tell us who do you think is scum.

Conspic... replacing in and out sucks a lot.
Remember when I asked this

Conspicuous_other... weren't you replaced recently in 761? What makes you think you have time now?

[Raivann]

sorry guys I had some major IRL. Will post w/content shortly

[wake4me4life]

After reading I follow porkens logic(#479). raviann seems to have been ducking and dodging the first two days....and yes this is clearly getting on the bandwagon...

vote: raviann

[alexhans]

FoS wake

You didn't even give your opinions on the game Son of a %"%$ (this is in-game anger)

Why hammer before Raiv could post?

[wake4me4life]

I read through and posted my vote based on what i read. it can be changed but porkens pretty much hit my feelings on the head.

thanks for the welcome btw. i play quicker games on other forums.

[Yaw]

Final Vote Count:

Raivann (2): knox, Porkens, wake4me4life

Not Voting: Raivann, alexhans

It's still fairly early in the day when wake4me4life pipes up. "Hey, if we lynch Raivann now we can get this over with before lunch!" The town agrees and hangs Raivann from the gallows. When he's dead you find a Mafia calling card.

Raivann, Mafia Goon, lynched Day 3.

Congratulations, town!