Mini 773- Welcome to Lynchville! Perfection! (Over)

[BrianMcQueso]

@L-K: We don't have a lot of time. I don't really need a detailed PBP analysis, but just some quick hits. You're at L-1 with less than a day left to play. Have you given up on trying to prevent your own lynch?

And just because I was not voting for anyone, you shouldn't say that I need to be serious about my vote. I have believed in every vote I have made (except the first random one, of course).

I'm assuming this is directed at me. I didn't mean to imply that you weren't taking your vote seriously, but rather that I have a vested interest in, one, getting a lynch to go through, and two, getting everyone to place down a vote today in order to see who they are siding with/against.

I was just overreacting. Thanks for the clarification, though.

[Light-kun]

In the same post:

I'm fine with it for now. I don't really feel any pressure for it, and so I will react when I find it necessary to do so.

Now registering the fact I'm at L-1, I'm going to make a grand case against all players. Expect super long post in approx. 3 hours.

So you don't feel any pressure, yet in the same post you decide to make a huge analysis of the entire game?

I didn't at the point I was at L-2, but at L-1 (both happened since the previous post), I figured I should get active.

While KK has claimed to have not supported policy lynches, he seems almost awkwardly clingy to the RVS, which is a scum point in my book.)

Lester backs down on KK, but I disagree I still see no scum motive for wanting the RVS to end quickly.

You contradict yourself. Being clingy to RVS is a scum point, but you see no scum motive for wanting to do so?

No contradiction. Lester attacked KK because KK thought Pie wanted the RVS to end quickly. KK defends his idea, and KK backs off. I disagree with Lester's decision because KK is still scummy for, from what I see, not wanting the RVS to end.

You also ignore several requests for you to claim. With the level of detail you put into your recent post, I would be surprised if you actually missed those posts when you get to the second half of your analysis.

It's close to refusing to claim. I will make a case and have it heard (I have finished my reread, without "director's commentary" and will post my case against my number 1 scum suspect: Kublai Kahn.), and after I get some responses, I'm hoping my claim will be unnecessary. If it is still demanded, then I will claim.

alexhans also makes a nice post summarizing the scummy points of Light-kun.

There pathetic and I'll address them as soon as I can. (After my case post.)

[Light-kun]

They're*
Post coming up in a minute

Instructions: READ CAREFULLY and FULLY if you wish to make an informed decision. This really took a lot of effort.

[Light-kun]

-Case on Kublai Kahn-

I have experience playing with ppp973. Voting for him is the best Day 1 action for town.

His first post makes a "case" for a joke vote, but he doesn't place one. I don't quite understand this play.

BTW -

What's with the over-aggressive questioning during the random vote phase?

I don't think there's a problem with it, it's really the only way we're going to get out of random stage.

Yeah, but random stage is going to happen. Mind as well let people get it out of their system. Since PieIsPopcorn is starting the questioning in the opening 2 pages where people are still going to pop in with their random vote, all he accomplishes is sewing confusion and chaos into the opening procedures.

Better to let everyone show up, say their hellos, make their jokes, etc..,

and then leap in with pointed questions.

I just don't see the benefit in breaking with convention.

The bolded statement blantantly contradicts his earlier statement in italics.

@ Kublai: PieisPopcorn has a point. I get the feeling you were trying to push that bandwagon without being on it. It's pretty minor as far as scumtells go, but combined with how snappy and defensive you're acting towards Pie in response, I think it's worth a vote switch.

Snappy? Defensive? Holy leaping to conclusions, Batman! Don't you have to know me first before making that call?

All I said was that I disagreed with PieIsPopcorn's early game tactics.

There is no brazenness or emotion in a game of logic. Your statement "What's with the over-agrressive questioning during the random vote phrase?" has a very defensive diction. As such, your statement, and further reactions, don't look "brazen," just defensive, and after this post in reaction to Brian, you have shown you can strawman really well too. ITALICS! Ironically, the quoted post is also snappy a defensive.

Sorry ahead of time for the long post

I don't really see how this game has been a break in convention. Aggressive questioning during the random stage is generally how I've found games go from being random to serious. And that needs to happen at some point, doesn't it.

Yes, the random phase must turn into the serious phase at some point. But serious questions right at the beginning of the RVS will get joking replies, which is why it's pointless to rush the issue. People making cases based on RVS replies and "defensiveness" are trying to set people up.

Perhaps, but then they'll be called on it, and we can leave the RVS. Your awkward clinginess to the RVS is very scummy.

As far as I'm aware, one more vote would have not lynched him, or even put him at L-1, or L-2. 4 votes would have put him at L-3, not a huge threat as far as a policy lynch is concerned. And if he is "bound to dig himself into a hole", I fail to see the negatives of putting pressure on him early. That way, we could have examined how that reaction potentially compares to his meta.

Pressure for what? I already said I know his playstyle. It's a non-sequitor playing style. Thus, no reason to vote for him.

Yet, you make the joke, defend the RVS, and don't vote him? If aggressive questioning isn't the right way to leave the RVS, and your refusal to vote (if only to bandwagon and jest our way out of the RVS) is any indication that bandwagon voting won't help, then how do you propose we leave it?

Perhaps you and I just have a different definition of "over-aggresive"? I just am questioning details that I'm finding interesting. As far as I'm aware, that's how one scumhunts. Exactly what is wrong with aggressiveness during the early stage of the game?

It's the tone of the whole thing. You're not only questioning details, you're concluding things (others are guilty of this too). To me this doesn't feel like scum-hunting, it feels like framing.

I don't understand your point. The goal of an argument is to conclude thing and Pie is suggesting a possible reason for your irrational behavior, but you belittle him for it, and then accuse him of using framing tactics. Oddly enough, you never do try and correct what you claim is a faulty conclusion (or else you wouldn't have had a problem with his conclusion), but you just attack his thoughts without explanation.

Stuff like this:

I like this post. This was my point completely, and I find it interesting that Kublai didn't really had defensive and snappish connotations the moment I put pressure on him. There were slight hints with that "over-aggression" piece, but it wasn't particularly clear.

It was after Lester asked an (IMO) pretty innocous question that suddenly Kublai gets defensive and starts attacking my method of ending the RVS. It feels like if it were genuine, it would have been more immediate.

Yeah, you see this, this is both snappy and defensive.

Isn't a valid case against a scum. It's a case against the brashness of my playstyle.

I don't know if you're new to mafiascum, but tone means shit when it comes to finding scum.

False!
Scum are more likely to be paranoid of attacks, wondering what the town would know or because they know that their scum, their less likely to try and keep a townie mindset. Being snappy and defensive TO A VOTE IS SCUMMY.

When someone received a role PM that says that they are scum, they don't automatically become rude and crude. Conversely, if someone gets a townie PM, then they don't become civil.

This was never a point by Pie. You're reaching Mr. Khan...

I'm not going to be nice to you, or pleasent, during the course of this game. Until the mod says something to convince me that you're town, you're my enemy. Now, I don't mind being described as "snappy". But yeah, I will be defensive if I'm being accused of things I'm not doing.

You...were doing them. Also, you blantantly admit to future tunnle vision on the role. You don't follow through (I don't think), but I doubt town would limit themselves that way. I guess on that count, you could just be stupid. (Yeah, yeah, make a joke on my stupid play this game. Woohoo.)

Pie asked a legitimate question in "why do you support this bandwagon but you're not on it?" Kublai Khan essentially ignores the question, then accuses Pie of sewing confusion as well as attacking people with pointed questions. I saw this as an overreaction.

I ignored it because it was a ridiculous question.

Because I placed my single, solitary vote on him, Kublai turns around and accuses me of jumping to conclusions and implies that I shouldn't make judgments because I don't "know him". I get the impression that he's nervous to even have any pressure on him whatsoever.

I'm sorry, but where did I say you couldn't make judgements about me?

I accused you of jumping to conclusions because, well, you jumped to conclusions. My reaction was neither snappy nor defensive.

I have noticed that Kublai Khan has also been somewhat hostile towards other players who have vocalized any sort of suspicion towards him

Portraying my asking Light-kun to make more sense as "hostile" is a serious mischaracterization. Did you miss where Light-kun agreed that his post made no sense?

Why are you trying so hard to bend facts to make me look bad?

Why is it that when it comes to Pie, you emphasize that "tone has nothing to do with scum hunting," but with Brian, you try to not look defensive and snappy. This is an odd double standard. Also, a good bit of your posts, such as not wanting people to make conclusions or judge on tone or leave the RVS show your affraid of scum hunting. Maybe most importantly, you know your scum and you're affraid people are going to find out. This isn't looking good for you that these same themes repeat themselves over and over again. You also accuse Brian of bending the facts, but while it is true that my post was sensless, I don't understand how anything you quoted to Brian is relevant to this idea. It looks like your trying to paint Brian as scum, but you lack explanation or proof.

Honestly, I really don't think that ppp is scummy. I think he's annoying, yes, but that's no reason to lynch him. In my experience, the annoying players are very often town, who are trying to contribute but don't know how. Too often, scum can push for the lynch of these players by going for a policy lynch or painting their eagerness as scumminess.

I don't think that it's scummy to push for a policy lynch, as long as it's not a quick lynch. In my expecience scum will never NK a village idiot, infact they'll do their best to keep them in the game (assuming that the village idiot never "evolves" into a useful player). Do you see the inherent detriment of having someone like ppp973 around at a LYLO situation?

This explains your lack of joke vote on ppp where it made sense! You're scum affraid to look scummy by your own theory!

Bake it at a temperature that ignores any of my previous posts or positions on policy lynches (shows he doesn't read the game).

It doesn't matter what you said before, a scummy comment is a scummy comment. Going by your method if a player started out without any scummy posts he should be safe for the entire game because people attacking him would be ignoring his previous posts.

Ignoring your appeal to ridicule, what's wrong with that. True scum-hunting involves detecting long-term anti-town planning within an individual's play. Fake scum-hunting involves playing "gotcha!".

I strongly agree with Archaist here and would like to call Khan's claim bullshit.

How does that make a difference? Your post 186 that (1) I'm either serious or (2) I could say I was joking (implying that I am not joking).

See, you're assuming that I was implying something. I meant what I said (you could), nothing more. By stating your assumed interpretations of my words as fact, you are the one who is attempting to frame me.

This is also increased in suspicion, as a statement, because Khan told Pie that tone had nothing to do with scum hunting. It looks like here he's reading a bit much into your word choice (word choice =/= tone, but word choice sets tone.) His "brazen" word choice earlier set the tone of snappiness and defensiveness, but he's criticizing Archaist here for...um...having a tone of suspicion? This is scummy to me.

{sarcasm}Yeah, my vote is pure retaliation and I haven't provided any solid evidence to back it up.{/sarcasm}

You don't have solid evidence. You assume too much in my actions that you quote and I have easily explained each one of them. Your vote is an OMGUS thinly veiled by evidence derived from your own assumptions.

For the most part, Kublai Khan hasn't been very strong is attacking Archaist. I think his the above comment is an example of Khan shoving his foot right in his mouth. (Phrase stolen blantantly from Red, who probably heard it from someone else.)

You found him irrefutably scummy based on what has been explained as a joke

Where did I say irrefutably? Did I ever say I was sure he was scum? He's tied for 1st place on my list, that doesn't mean I'm sure. Also, why do you believe Kublai Khan?

So now, having seen that it was just a joke, explain to me how you still think it's scummy?

You assume Kublai Khan was telling the truth. How it is proven that it was just a joke? There is no proof, so you assuming that there is is misleading.

If you don't, why isn't KK's defense reasonable?

I already said why I don't think his defense is good. His defense basically consists of saying he was only joking (no proof for this) and attacking me with a variety of assumptions about my intentions (no proof for this either).

Archaist makes a rather convincing coutner argument to Cateraction here.

Just because your argument is logically sound does not mean it is correct. He was joking. The rest of us have gotten over that. Why is this so important to you?

Yes, but on my reread, I thought to combine these actions of Khan with his previous. Together, I feel they prove that Khan has NEVER really addressed point against him. He allows them to pass off and just attacks the player and his actions instead of countering the accusation. This is really scummy.

Side note:

I'm inclined to agree. Scum are notorious for creating situations where either choice paints others in a negative light, assumes others=town aligned. Further, I don't think that archaist was trying to "throw votes around until it sticks," I think Archaist is attempting to mislead people by creating a blind-spot decision for observers of the situation. I also agree with the rest of Brian's argument.

I stand by this opinion, except on reread, I find Archaists' two points not to indicate he is scum, but if he was joking or serious, neither is helpful to town and is therefore anti town. I think at this point I read it the same way as everyone else, but I can see Archaists' points more clearly on this reread. It was joke, I don't fully doubt that. I just think that Kublai Khan's reaction in every game shows a scum who attacks anyone, viciously, who attacks him.

The entire case on Archaist, so far as I can tell, is that he refuses to concede the obvious fact that KK was joking around with Archon. I'm not going to say this bandwagon is scum-driven, but I am going to say that the only people who I think are earnestly on the wagon are alex and possibly Brian. alex, to his credit, put together a better case against Archaist, and he's also the first people to jump from it the second he smells something's off. What that tells me is that alex is genuinely concerned about whether or not Archaist is scum (as opposed to just wanting to lynch whoever). I'm so-so about giving Brian credit because his post 209 just seems like a lot of words that amount to saying, "Archaist is scum for jumping on KK disingenuously".

This is more than I can say for the rest of the wagon however.

First, you are severely underrepresenting the case against Archaist. Go back and

re-

read my posts, alexhans' posts, and BrianMcQueso's posts. The majority of suspicion is based on Archaist's pattern of behavior, his false dichotomy, and (as a topper) pushing a false case against me.

I agree with Red. It seems that given the situation, town could easily agree to this case, but its build up was so quick and in Archaists' own words, his posts against Kublai is "logically sound." I understand Khan was joking, but carrying so far as to conclude a player must be scum on these grounds? The case against archaists lacks a scum motive on Archaists part. However, Khan's play looks very scum driven, and he seems to be blantantly ignoring cases against him and claiming his "brazen" play style to push with full force on every case. With his scummier actions chalked up to "jokes" and his tone being his "brashness," I think Khan has successfully covered up his scum tells to most of the town.

Unvote: Vote Kublai Khan

I realize that, but then explain to me why Lester jumped on the wagon. He cites because of "baseless attacks" even though he concedes that he felt the same way that Archaist did about your infamous post!

My post was deliberately vague and provacative to anyone but Archon (who would know what I was talking about). It's my experience that most townies will approach such a post with caution. A sort of "WTF is that about?" attitude. LesterGroans and ppp973 both gave a typical townie reaction. Archaist didn't. He chose to use it to go on the offense. Then Archon posts and shows that he understood, that it was a meta-joke, both Archaist stayed the course with determination. If a townie is so stubborn that he can't give up a case in the face of contravening evidence, then he's still anti-town.

Actually, being passive is slightly more scummy than being aggressive. This is another post that hints at a repeating pattern of your play: people attacking you are scum...

hm....

My post [proposing a policy lynch of Archon] was deliberately vague and provacative [sic] to anyone but Archon (who would know what I was talking about). It's my experience that most townies will approach such a post with caution. A sort of "WTF is that about?" attitude. LesterGroans and ppp973 both gave a typical townie reaction. Archaist didn't. He chose to use it to go on the offense. Then Archon posts and shows that he understood, that it was a meta-joke, both Archaist stayed the course with determination. If a townie is so stubborn that he can't give up a case in the face of contravening evidence, then he's still anti-town.

Here's what bother me about this post: he goes back to what I see is the weakest part of the case against Archaist. I was being scummy to get a reaction is not a good defense.

Agreed: As for my issue with qwints: Your scummy for backing off your Kublai case that you spent so much time on... it almost as though you *know* Kublai isn't scum.... if KK isn't scum, you are. If KK is scum...your could be his partner...hm...or you really, really suspect me. I only discount this latter theory because your PBPA case wasn't against me, it was on KK. Despite my super long post against KK (who I truly believe is scum) the simplest answer at the moment might be that you're scum. I'll wait to see what people think of both my points (Against you and KK), and see where to go from there.

...okay. Looks like KK hasn't answered enough today.

Answered what? You (again) haven't asked me any questions.

This is a crap shoot for me. I know I'll look pretty good if KK is scum. But...I am gonna look suckish is KK is town.

Still, I can see the scum...and qwints, more or less, reaffirms that earlier thought.

What does the bolded part mean?

See...uh...this post...

Also note: Hohum can best explain my play...and has... I agree with him though. If town really thinks KK is scum despite this post and my evidence, and that Qwints is suspicious for creating a HUGE case and then dismissing it because person X (me) joined that wagon, then lynching me is better than a no lynch. I agree with Hohum on this point, and attacking for a contradiction (its not, its just good play) is stupid.

I'm throwing my

vote on Light-kun

.

Light-kun, sorry, but you're just pinging scum like crazy. You can't keep your arguments straight on which players that you suspect, you're not even keeping track of who is in the game. You're insisting that my alignment is inverse to yours, which is hilarious from my POV. You're vote-hopping near deadline like crazy. You're defending yourself with meta. None of these reason you're adequately explained. So that's why I'm voting you.

Why're you apologizing? If I'm guilty, you would vote me anyway, right? Also, nothing you said makes me scummy. Anti town/unhelpful=/=scummy. Further, killing off someone you find unhelpful won't give any information of day 2. This is faulty and just shows your not brazen, you look for easy cases and attack relentlessly. You don't like being accused and you never respond to accusations. I don't see any real defense against Qwints, but I can see that is setup since he doesn't seem to mind your lack of a real defense. And he was so easily swayed by my actions to abandon his case. God forbid someone you don't like votes with you, eh Qwints?

[qwints]

LK's point about KK apologizing is really interesting. It's totally out of character with the rest of KK's play today. Something to consider for tomorrow.

LK, when did KK become your number one suspect? You've attacked him on and off throughout the day, but you've dropped it for others several times.

On another note, I never "dismissed" the KK case. KK, along with the lurkers, will be at the top of target list tomorrow. He was superseded in scuminess by the craziest vote hopping I've ever seen.

[qwints]

FTR, I'm going to bed in about an hour for my 8:30 exam tomorrow. I won't be back on til 2 est at the earliest, so if there's anything that's going to change my vote, I need to here it soon.

[Light-kun]

LK's point about KK apologizing is really interesting. It's totally out of character with the rest of KK's play today. Something to consider for tomorrow.

...I'm actually trying to prevent my lynch here by proving Kublai is scummy. The points brought against me are my regular play, so I can merely apologies. However, you have already given up on today? We're not an hour away, we still have about 17 hours to change the tide to the person who should be lynched.

LK, when did KK become your number one suspect? You've attacked him on and off throughout the day, but you've dropped it for others several times.

On my reread, he "rebecame" my number one suspect. The one that Brian complained about that I made yesterday.

On another note, I never "dismissed" the KK case. KK, along with the lurkers, will be at the top of target list tomorrow. He was superseded in scuminess by the craziest vote hopping I've ever seen.

"Tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow..."

Maybe you really are the one I should go after. You keep acting as though you've thrown in the towel today and won't even consider that I'm the wrong lynch. I'm getting mixed messages here...

HoS: Qwints

I'm in no mood for your dancing around the point, Qwints.

[Kublai Khan]

-Case on Kublai Kahn-

Dammit, it's like I was promised an all new show, but all I got was a repeat.

I really don't mean to be "derisive and dismissive" again, no wait.. sorry, your version has me "brazen and defensive". Your case is like a cheap Bollywood knock-off of qwints case against with a little bit of Hohum's arguments to jazz it up for the kids.

Deadline is coming up. Why the hell are you launching into a major case against me with under 20 hours to go? Most of your "evidence" is days/weeks old. Hell most of it deals with my interactions with PieIsPopcorn and ppp973 and both of them have since been replaced.

In the newer stuff you accuse my case against Archaist of "lacking a scum motive". Which is really weird since you agreed with my case against him to vote for Archaist. Twice.

You've been asked to defend your actions and your spastic votes. Mafia isn't football, the best defense is not a good offense. Especially when your offense isn't that good.

[Light-kun]

-Case on Kublai Kahn-

Dammit, it's like I was promised an all new show, but all I got was a repeat.

I really don't mean to be "derisive and dismissive" again, no wait.. sorry, your version has me "brazen and defensive". Your case is like a cheap Bollywood knock-off of qwints case against with a little bit of Hohum's arguments to jazz it up for the kids.

False.

Deadline is coming up. Why the hell are you launching into a major case against me with under 20 hours to go? Most of your "evidence" is days/weeks old. Hell most of it deals with my interactions with PieIsPopcorn and ppp973 and both of them have since been replaced.

You're right. This isn't football. In a game of mafia, unaddressed is still unaddressed. 75% of my case is that you have simply ignored every accusation against you UNLESS you were able to completely reverse the assault (or it was obvious bullshit.) I didn't even touch heavily on ppp, and the Pie arguments have yet to be refuted. So, you didn't even read my post, you skimmed it and actually thought it was mostly ppp and Pie? It was mostly Pie and Archaist. I think you fell for a minor trap, sir.

In the newer stuff you accuse my case against Archaist of "lacking a scum motive". Which is really weird since you agreed with my case against him to vote for Archaist. Twice.

I have retracted over 80% of my statements in this game. This isn't really different, and I really think you need to learn to stop deflecting and to respond to a damn accusation. You're getting scummier with each post, and you will be lynched tomorrow, if not today.

You've been asked to defend your actions and your spastic votes. Mafia isn't football, the best defense is not a good offense. Especially when your offense isn't that good.

My actions were sub par and lazy. My spastic voting is normal. Neither have been defined as "scummy" by any player in a collected, rational way.

Also: YOU of all fucking people have no right to bring up bullshit arguments about "the best defense is not a good offense." No matter what point was made, you attacked the player's action and never addressed anything of your own. Your entire play has no merit because you've done nothing but deflect, a prolong until every issue with you was dead or part of a "brazen" play style. Your play style defense is utter shit and your judgment of my offense as "[not] good" only shows that you can't refute any argument against you. You never have because you know you can't do it successfully. 13 hours isn't enough time? Bullshit. I have faith that the tide can turn because every accusation against you is so obvious and true that you most certainly can be found as scum. All that's necessary is for someone to check in.

And if someone other than these two top suspects of mine, KK and Qwints, request it again, I will claim.

[BrianMcQueso]

You are -->this<-- close to being lynched. All it takes is one more vote or a couple of hours. I think it's too late to change anything at this point, but nevertheless, I am requesting a claim.

[hohum]

He needs to claim, I think many of us have said that at one point or another. All he's really doing is stalling the game at this point.

[afatchic]

15 hours to deadline. Next to last votecount coming shortly.

[qwints]

I see no reason to change my vote.

I have retracted over 80% of my statements in this game.

This is as good a reason as any for a Light Kun lynch.

I don't anticipate access til after deadline.

[afatchic]

Your "Last chance to change your vote" Votecount!

Light-kun-(6)-RedCoyote, LesterGroans, qwints, Kublai Khan, BrianMcQueso, alexhans

qwints-(2)-hohum, cateraction,
Kublai Khan-(2)-Archon, Light-kun

Not voting-(2)-ChiefSkye4, Archaist

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

ChiefSkye4 hasn't picked up her prod yet. She has 24 hours to pick it up before i start a replacement search.

**Deadline: 11 hours 6 minutes left!**

[alexhans]

I'm tired of this accusation. Your way of "active scum-hunting" is not the only way of scum-hunting and it can be predicatable to scum. I'm using another way where I make inflamatory ("baiting") remarks and then judge (and/or follow-up on) responses I think are scummy.

well, drop it now because scum just found out that they musn't take the bait...

So you think that I'm total scum, yet you're totally comfortable with the lynch that kk-scum was pushing? I interpret this as a total lack of conviction in your case against me.

I interpret it as:
a) desperate scum
b) really messed up & paranoid townsperson.

alexhans also makes a nice post summarizing the scummy points of Light-kun.

There pathetic and I'll address them as soon as I can. (After my case post.)

Pathetic? Great start... I'm awaiting your response.
-------
regarding 403

His first post makes a "case" for a joke vote, but he doesn't place one. I don't quite understand this play.

starts

The bolded statement blantantly contradicts his earlier statement in italics.

err... no it doesn't. notice the word "then"...

Scum are more likely to be paranoid of attacks

QFT. LK, this is you.

It's funny that you dismiss KK's case on Archaist yet you agreed with him and Brian and voted for Archaist.

I stand by this opinion, except on reread, I find Archaists' two points not to indicate he is scum

You change everytime you reread... and you seem to reread before every post... XD

mmm KK again... this must be like your tenth vote today? Are you trying to set up a wishy washyness record?

Why're you apologizing? If I'm guilty, you would vote me anyway, right?

This IS a bit weird about KK, considering he is usually much more aggressive. It's almost as if he was having second thoughts or trying to excuse himself in case of a mislynch.

Also, nothing you said makes me scummy. Anti town/unhelpful=/=scummy. Further, killing off someone you find unhelpful won't give any information of day 2

You ARE definetly scummy for all the reasons I've stated. And you keep adding more wishy-washyness and making desperate fake-points. I don't know if you'll flip scum, but you've been extremely scummy and there's no excuse for it although you try to pull a playstyle card... being scummy is not a playstyle.

LK, when did KK become your number one suspect? You've attacked him on and off throughout the day, but you've dropped it for others several times.

HELL! He even said that KK's logic made sense and was correct or something like that. Read my previous post.

...I'm actually trying to prevent my lynch here by proving Kublai is scummy

You fail miserably. You didn't address my post. You don't defend but just attack.

On my reread, he "rebecame" my number one suspect.

There's just to much "re" for one day.

Maybe you really are the one I should go after. You keep acting as though you've thrown in the towel today and won't even consider that I'm the wrong lynch. I'm getting mixed messages here...

HoS: Qwints

Oh for crying out loud!!! decide already! Or is it hard to guess wich waggon (because casually KK and qwints are the only available ones) is better to push to save yourself?

In the newer stuff you accuse my case against Archaist of "lacking a scum motive". Which is really weird since you agreed with my case against him to vote for Archaist. Twice.

You've been asked to defend your actions and your spastic votes. Mafia isn't football, the best defense is not a good offense. Especially when your offense isn't that good.

^^This

I have retracted over 80% of my statements in this game

And you think this is good? You've made yourself ABSOLUTELY unreliable.

My actions were sub par and lazy. My spastic voting is normal. Neither have been defined as "scummy" by any player in a collected, rational way.

lol. define collected, rational way... I ask you the same question I asked you long ago: Did you hop-voted so much on Day 1 in any other game? No.

Claim.

mmmm... Maybe you have a point that it's kinda hypocryte of KK to say that the best defense is not a good attack when he is usually so aggressive. I'll look into that.

[Light-kun]

Town Doctor. Meant to do this earlier, but sleep kind of overtook me after my previous post. *yawns* Early morning too. About 7 hours right? Oh well...

I really didn't want to claim either because protecting the Tracker would have been easier with an unclaimed Doctor, but I guess my play has been irrefutably scummy. Learning experience for next game.

[Kublai Khan]

well, drop it now because scum just found out that they musn't take the bait...

Yeah, I kinda meant to as of post 393. But then I had a relapse in post 407. My bad.

Why're you apologizing? If I'm guilty, you would vote me anyway, right?

This IS a bit weird about KK, considering he is usually much more aggressive. It's almost as if he was having second thoughts or trying to excuse himself in case of a mislynch.

Of course I have second thoughts. It's day 1! Light-Kun was my best educated guess for scum. But after his last few posts, I feel more certain. At this point he's either a liar (self-admitted 80% liar) or scum. It's a great lynch for Day 1.

mmmm... Maybe you have a point that it's kinda hypocryte of KK to say that the best defense is not a good attack when he is usually so aggressive. I'll look into that.

Hey now. I'm not a hypocrite. I've never defended myself from an attack by Person A by saying "Hey! Look how scummy Person B is!"

[Kublai Khan]

EBWOP: Heh. Didn't see Light-Kun's claim. Doesn't matter. I don't believe it. No PR would wait until that close to deadline to claim.

This is my last post today.

[alexhans]

unvote

... unfortunately... I tend to believe his claim, and his refusal to claim earlier... And, probably he will die if he is the doc.

Anyone willing to vote Cater?

Vote Cateraction

... He's been excessively cautious IMO. Not contributing to the game. Didn't unvote Archaist until called for it. While pretending to be cautious he seemed to have info implying that LK and ppp weren't scum.

But. I can definetly go for KK. Stating that PR doc claim is a lie and that he wont post is pretty scummy, plus the aggressiveness inconsistency. And he may give us info on qwints and Hohum for that matter. Or maybe even on Cater.

LK... YOU SHOULD'VE REALLY CLAIMED EARLIER DUDE.

3rd. I guess I could also accept a qwints lynch. At this point. Anything is better than a claimed doc. Although I don't really see much weird things about him. Apart from his initial tunnel vision on KK.

But we gotta rush... there's like 5 hs to deadline I guess

[alexhans]

EBWOP: ARchaist? Where are you? Planning on voting?

[Archaist]

Now that Light-kun has claimed Doc, it's simply too risky to lynch him. The town can not afford to lynch the Doctor day 1, and I need him alive to increase my chances of survival tonight. If he is the Doc and is lynched, I will probably be killed tonight, and the town would lose two power roles before day 2.

Kublai Khan seems to brazenly ignore this possibility.

Vote: Kublai Khan

[Archaist]

No PR would wait until that close to deadline to claim.

LK... YOU SHOULD'VE REALLY CLAIMED EARLIER DUDE.

Not necessarily. When someone claims Doc, they are pretty much guaranteed to be night killed the next night if they are town. We can see that he has been hesitant to claim, which would make sense. Of course, the hesitation could come from him being mafia and not wanting to risk a counterclaim, but if he is mafia claiming Doc the real Doc won't counterclaim since it would get him killed. Doc is the safest claim for mafia, but I think that if Light-kun were mafia he would have made such a safe claim at an earlier time when he was first at L-1.

[alexhans]

I know. Cater seems to be an impossibility.

unvote, vote Kublai Khan

We need someone on the LK waggon to jump on the KK waggon to get a lynch.

unofficial votecount

Code: Select all

Light-kun-(5)-RedCoyote, LesterGroans, qwints, Kublai Khan, BrianMcQueso, 
qwints-(2)-hohum, cateraction, 
Kublai Khan-(4)-Archon, Light-kun, Archaist, alexhans

Not voting-(1)-ChiefSkye4, 

Where's hohum when you need him?

Remember people tie sucks too.

[Archon]

so, it comes doan to Light and KK. Who will die? find out in tommorow's epic adventure!

[RedCoyote]

It's irresponsible for a power role to claim so late, forcing the town into a pressure lynch situation like this. KK is, in my opinion, right to be very suspicious of the claim.

I don't like the prospect of keeping Light-kun alive after giving us a claim ~7 hours out, but I've also been thinking long and hard about the sheer effort Light-kun has put into the last few posts he's made... thinking about how likely scumLight-kun would have bothered to do that.

Unlike alex, I cannot fault KK (or anyone) for wanting to lynch Light-kun despite his claim given the deadline, certainly any scum on this wagon will be more than happy to lurk until tomorrow, but I do hope no one labels me opportunistic for using this chance to get someone else lynched.

I absolutely support a cater lynch, and will go ahead and

unvote

now so that I can

vote: cateraction

. Seeing as how I both believe that alex is town and believe cater is scum, I'm willing to make this radical vote change. I am conscious of this decision and willingly accept being held accountable for the

consequences

of a cater lynch, but, again, I hope no one faults my

decision

to switch my vote at this point in time.

---

Edit: I just saw the abrupt, awkward switch to KK. This switch seems artificial, and I don't like Archaist or alex's support of it. This town should be weary of anyone trying to take advantage of,

This is my last post today.

I will try to come back and check on the thread soon, but I think KK's position is valid (even if I don't agree with him) and I

do not

see it as scummy.

---

Edit (again):

so, it comes doan to Light and KK. Who will die? find out in tommorow's epic adventure!

A pretty brazen comment from someone who hasn't made a meaningful post in a week and a half.

In other words, I'd probably be okay with an Archon lynch too.