Mini 734 - GrimMafia - OVER

[Beyond_Birthday]

@BB

:

So right now, I could see Zach or BB as scum, but not together(if we started with three).

My bad, noted.

[Setael]

I see a few possibilities here:

1) zach and archon are scum. Archon has gotten quiet since getting called out for "clearing" zach and I can definitely see this possibility

2) beyond and hasd are the last 2 scums and they'd much rather get a mislynch today (zach is the current target) rather than no lynch.

3) a combination I'm not seeing (i.e. Pablo is fooling us all and his partner is any of the above). I'm not certain of anything enough to be willing to lynch today. Any way I slice it, I'd rather no lynch today and improve our odds for tomorrow.

vote: no lynch

[Archon]

I see a few possibilities here:

1) zach and archon are scum. Archon has gotten quiet since getting called out for "clearing" zach and I can definitely see this possibility

2) beyond and hasd are the last 2 scums and they'd much rather get a mislynch today (zach is the current target) rather than no lynch.

3) a combination I'm not seeing (i.e. Pablo is fooling us all and his partner is any of the above). I'm not certain of anything enough to be willing to lynch today. Any way I slice it, I'd rather no lynch today and improve our odds for tomorrow.

vote: no lynch

Well, see, I'm in a play right now, and we are going through the performances. I'm 2/3 of the way through the entire thing, and we only perform on the weekend.

I have two shows on Saturday, so I go into the city instead of home, and get some food there on my bike. I got hom at 9:30, watched some TV, and then went to sleep.

So, I've just been a little busy.

[Beyond_Birthday]

I see a few possibilities here:

1) zach and archon are scum. Archon has gotten quiet since getting called out for "clearing" zach and I can definitely see this possibility

2) beyond and hasd are the last 2 scums and they'd much rather get a mislynch today (zach is the current target) rather than no lynch.

3) a combination I'm not seeing (i.e. Pablo is fooling us all and his partner is any of the above). I'm not certain of anything enough to be willing to lynch today. Any way I slice it, I'd rather no lynch today and improve our odds for tomorrow.

vote: no lynch

You do realize that if you weren't scum, then having a no lynch does nothing but get you killed by your own theory.

Unvote; Vote Satael

[Beyond_Birthday]

EBWOP: For those who don't follow, I am voting Satael cause that post indicates that Satael has no fear for his own life despite the fact that, if he isn't scum, he is the one who would die, and would leave us in a worse position than we're in now. Since he is completely sold that we'll be better off, I think he is scum.

[Pablo Molinero]

Looker reread will come later tonight. Sorry it took so long folks, life happened, you know how it goes.

[hasdgfas]

EBWOP: For those who don't follow, I am voting Satael cause that post indicates that Satael has no fear for his own life despite the fact that, if he isn't scum, he is the one who would die, and would leave us in a worse position than we're in now. Since he is completely sold that we'll be better off, I think he is scum.

How does that make sense?

[hasdgfas]

EBWOP: For those who don't follow, I am voting Satael cause that post indicates that Satael has no fear for his own life despite the fact that, if he isn't scum, he is the one who would die, and would leave us in a worse position than we're in now. Since he is completely sold that we'll be better off, I think he is scum.

How does that make sense?

[Setael]

EBWOP: For those who don't follow, I am voting Satael cause that post indicates that Satael has no fear for his own life despite the fact that, if he isn't scum, he is the one who would die, and would leave us in a worse position than we're in now. Since he is completely sold that we'll be better off, I think he is scum.

First of all, Setael with an "e". Also, her. And she.

Second, I see your point but it's weak. Sure, the player that is the lowest on most people's scum lists might be NK'd if we no lynch. But there's also the chance that the 2 remaining scum are a combination no one has thought of. Let's say, just to prove that your point is weak, that pablo and I were the last 2 scum. We no lynch and neither of us dies (because we're scum) and one of the 4 that are higher on people's scum lists is NK'd. Voila. Our odds of mislynching goes way down.

There's another possibility, too. Pablo and I are both town but aren't NK'd because the scum want to WIFOM the town into thinking we are. In that case, once again, one of the 4 higher on people's scum lists would be lynched and ONCE AGAIN we're better off.

We don't know what the scum will do, which makes no lynch still the smartest choice.

[Pablo Molinero]

Here it is, all quotes are from looker. It's a bit of a stream-of-consciousness thing so some things are corrected or elaborated later. Not as in depth as I would have liked since Looker is frustrating as hell to read.

--------------

hmm...odd...i was kind of feeling a setael n zach, but i guess that's the benefit of other opinions. i'll go back and do some more reading.

Setael and zach are the first people he finger for suspicion. Do we think looker is the type to throw out misdirection in the very beginning?

Nice catch. But anyway, still reading and still feeling Setael more than Spring. Coming with some substance later on, until then

vote: Setael

Remember kids. Arch=Spring.

I'm wanting to agree with this post and place a vote on you; however, I doubt it's more because I think you're scum than simply my willingness for something to happen. I can understand how one could easily get bored, but I don't understand whether this would count as a FOS Spring. Either way, I'm trying

To spring (Arch). I am of the opinion that FoS’s hold little to no weight, so the ol’ FoS your partner and vote someone else could be in full effect. Speculation, sure, let’s see how this develops.

Vi - Nice. I don't know, though, I think it was a pressure vote; I'll go back and see. Until then, unvote.

And the retraction of his vote.

i remember. just trying to put everyone on the map. wouldn't want anyone to get too comfortable.

vote: hasdqfas

Hmmm, he seems to like to put his vote on people in the name of ‘pressure’ and keeping them off balance.

Well excuse me! Exactly what answer were you looking for, Vi? A scummy one...? unvote

And the next post another quick retraction. He’s bouncing from place to place to see what will stick. I think has and Setael are looking good because of this.

Vi threw me off.

If I could find your case, which I'm sure is pretty nice, I'd post my opinion; however, I've yet to locate said case.

I think Zachrulez is...::sigh::...I'll have to isolate him, Setael... (And here I was trying not to do any work...)

We never got that promised read on Zach. Nice sketchy noncommittal post he was good at.

Yes! Tell me what you think! I've been reading you and I think you're really cool, but you're really smart, which makes me think you're scum that really knows what you're doing. My scum readings really don't mount up to much in my opinion because I always sum up the person's playstyle and personality instead of what they've actually posted and the probability of the mod giving them a certain role.

In short, it's hard.

Wait, wait, no, no it's not...! (another jokey-joke, sorry folks)

If I had to give you a number, I'd say you'd have a 36.333...% chance of being scum; however, I don't have to give you a number so I'll just say I think you're town right now. BUT I DON'T KNOW! Maybe you're just a nice friggin guy...! [/quote

To Zach. Ah, here is where things get interesting. A very strange “You’re cool! But scum! But I’m unreliable when reading! But I don’t know! But you’re a “nice friggin guy”!” Very, very odd.

Ah crap. I hate it when people over-analyze things because it makes it harder for predominantly simple people like myself.

@Pablo, wait, no, @ Town: PABLO IS SCUM! LYNCH HIM! DO NOT BE DISTRACTED BY THE FACT THAT I AM TALKING TO SOMEONE! CONTINUE ON WITH YOUR LIVES!

You don't make sense...whoa, is this a belated OMGUS vote...?

And then the panic, under the guise of being a “simple” player.

I don't think you're scum because I haven't read anything to imply such - meaning, I've read nothing where you've done or said anything that could appear to be scum-motivated if you understand the term. As far as Setael, I voted her because I was replacing in and she had no votes on her and wasn't voting anyone. She looked uninvolved, kind of like I was, and so I involved her. Simultaneously, I involved myself, now I'm in the game. It's stupid, but it's what I always do when replacing into a game with a good bit of pages.

At Zach, when asked about his early votes/suspicions. It could be buddying to town or it could be buddying to partner. Too much WIFOM to make a distinction.

Bluff. Pick two random names, throwem in the sea and see what ripples they make. i'm tellin u, zach, i could have just as easily did the same process with anyone else that wasn't voting or had no votes on them. it's more of a "hey i'm here" vote than anything else, certainly not a "100% scum" vote. appreciate your honesty, though

He’s being slightly called out on his motives. It’s interesting to see the tone of this in contrast to the violent, annoyed tone of his exchanges later with Setael.

No one has anything to say about my post? Okay...

As for my whole deal with looker;

I see no scuminess.

Looker seems to just be in it for the fun

. if he were scum, he probably would not be playing this way, and would be just a bit more cautious (I'm sure I spelt it wrong). I just see a level of noobness I have never seen before.

Why can't anyone understand this? I honestly think people forget that this is a game sometimes and that the purpose is to have fun. O well...

Huge freakin post here. Not just Looker’s, but Arch’s before it. Arch says he sees no scuminess in Looker and he’s “just doing it for the fun”. Remember how that turned out? Worked out well for the town, but Arch completely turned on that idea at the drop of a hat.

Damn

To Zach calling him dumb.

Double damn

To BB calling him dumb

Hey calm down, Ms. Setael. If my first reason is, indeed, "bunk" (as you so cleverly put it) then that's solely because the votecount didn't reflect it. So there, honey, your move.

To Setael calling him out on having weak motives. Different reaction, tone, smileys, than he gave earlier.

I have no talent for reading "newb scum" versus "newb town." So, if you care to point out things Looker has done that indicates scum anything (particularly something an amateur scum is more likely to do), be my guest.

Not gonna happen

Dammit, he’s linking himself to BB now. The callback on BB’s noncommittal post is disconcerting. It’s hard to read someone that’s all over the place.

LOL! O my F**KING GOD! Thank you for shedding some light upon my day and making my life more bearable.

But no, Setael, I am not and was not looking at votecounts in the stead of reading the whole thread. I was merely trying to urge a commitment out of those who had not committed, i.e., you, seeing as I view a vote as a commitment.

Lol, you are f**cking hilarious

Once again, a freakout, directed towards Setael. I’m inclined to say that this helps clear Setael, but this is frustrating getting nothing clear.

lol as in FOS Pablo

Yea, that's right

Oooh, dreaded FoS. I rescind my earlier comment of FoSing partners, he ain’t that bright.

I can't take it anymore. he is too damn annoying.

Vote; Looker

Arch snaps and votes. Helps his case.

Ad hominem...?

@Birthday: Whatcha got? (As in accusations against which I could defend myself, seeing as Archon & Pablo [hmm...scumpair...?] have nothing more than votes)

He’s looking for BB to give him something since my and Arch’s accusations are too harsh for his little brain. This is definitely looking like a reaching out to the scumbuddy move for help to me.

so its agreed!
VOTE: ARCHON
wait, wait, wait, no, no, no...you have to say something first...
unvote

This is just plain bizarre. He’s scrambling, for something, and digging deeper. Trying to gain backing against Arch? Looks like it.

FOS: Archon & Vi Alright, due to this little exchange (and my role pm), I'm startin to get suspicious. I think this crap is staged.

And yet he quotes BB before this as his reasoning for his FoSing. Vi is town and arch has been his target for all late-day.

unvote vote: Archon
FOS Vi & Zach

Last desperate attempt by desperate mafia.

Vi drew the BB connection and only reluctantly voted looker as a consolation prize. Vi ended up dead in the night and would have certainly gone after BB in the day. 100%. BB gave us very bizarre things early this day with his “multi scum teams” that he has tried to amend, but I have not forgot. looker asking for a softball from BB and otherwise staying out of BB's way (when freaking out on everyone else) is the most damaging thing he did to his scumbuddy.

unvote, vote: Beyond Birthday

[Pablo Molinero]

Screwed up the tags, but you can figure it out. And I didn't think it was *that* underwhelming. Let's make a bleedin' decision, people.

[Zachrulez]

I'm at a loss for understanding Beyond's reasoning for voting for Setael in 954.

I still think we're best off no lynching.

[Pablo Molinero]

If Beyond is so confusing AND linked to looker (would not commit to reading the confusing looker, did not hammer, been baffling today) why would you not vote him? We're nearing the end of things and I'm picking up where Vi left off: lynch BB.

[Zachrulez]

Are you sure enough to lynch him now and forfeit any potential information we can get during the night if we no lynch?

I don't think you're seeing the whole picture.

There's more we can potentially learn from no lynching then just eliminating an NKed suspect.

[Pablo Molinero]

By allowing the NK, I think we give the mafia the chance to WIFOM the hell out of the kill / make up something from the kill to their advantage / kill off the most-town player. Also, it allows them to try and quickhammer. While our current setup needs 2 townies to be fooled to lose instead of 1 tomorrow.

[Beyond_Birthday]

EBWOP: For those who don't follow, I am voting Satael cause that post indicates that Satael has no fear for his own life despite the fact that, if he isn't scum, he is the one who would die, and would leave us in a worse position than we're in now. Since he is completely sold that we'll be better off, I think he is scum.

First of all, Setael with an "e". Also, her. And she.

Second, I see your point but it's weak. Sure, the player that is the lowest on most people's scum lists might be NK'd if we no lynch. But there's also the chance that the 2 remaining scum are a combination no one has thought of. Let's say, just to prove that your point is weak, that pablo and I were the last 2 scum. We no lynch and neither of us dies (because we're scum) and one of the 4 that are higher on people's scum lists is NK'd. Voila. Our odds of mislynching goes way down.

There's another possibility, too. Pablo and I are both town but aren't NK'd because the scum want to WIFOM the town into thinking we are. In that case, once again, one of the 4 higher on people's scum lists would be lynched and ONCE AGAIN we're better off.

We don't know what the scum will do, which makes no lynch still the smartest choice.

Hm... well defended...just your post is odd and I strongly disagree with your vote to no lynch logic.

Also, I agree with pablo on the no lynch, obviously. However, it is crystal clear to me that lynching me is a bad idea.

Have you forgotten that scum do not, necessarily, buddy up to scum. Maybe Looker buddies up to town as scum. We need a meta check to see which idea Looker typically goes by.

[Archon]

I'm not that suspicious of Zach, myself, due to looker's post of FOSing Vi and Zach, and Voting me. as I am innocent, and Vi died innocent. I'm assuming that Zach is also innocent. I know, it's abad case, but I need something to grasp.

unvote, vote hasdgfas

[Pablo Molinero]

Wel, that's interesting. What the hell does that even mean? Come on peoples, speak up.

[hasdgfas]

I'm not that suspicious of Zach, myself, due to looker's post of FOSing Vi and Zach, and Voting me. as I am innocent, and Vi died innocent. I'm assuming that Zach is also innocent. I know, it's abad case, but I need something to grasp.

unvote, vote hasdgfas

and nothing to say about BB?

[Setael]

An even better question for archon: And nothing to say about hasd?

[Beyond_Birthday]

An even better question for archon: And nothing to say about hasd?

...indeed. I'm going to see if I can find a looker-mafia game. See who he buddies up to in a quick meta check. I apologize for not having time to do this sooner.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Looker's first vote (unexplained of course) of the game... is for his partner, who had virtually no suspicion on him at the time. He doesn't buddy up to Hohum and the game ended shortly. The only obvious conclusion I can ascertain from this is that he doesn't buddy up to anyone for any particular reason. Had he voted Caboose, he could have justified it and had a much better chance of winning. (He won anyway due to deadline.)

This conclusion only has this one game as reference, but from his town games (must I go into them...shudder*) are about as good as Zero the Hero. My thought process is that we can't use "he buddied up to X" or "He didn't say anything about Y" or etc arguments to justify our attacking others. His play shows no signs of this, and in fact, he voted his partner in the above game without any reason, so if he found my play townie from some twisted, backward logic he has going for him.

I conclude: No idea. Ask him after this games over.

[Pablo Molinero]

Great, so the collective conscensus on Looker is "I dunno"?

Town, rank these three from most scum / lynchable to least:
BB
Arch
Zach

[Zachrulez]

Great, so the collective conscensus on Looker is "I dunno"?

Town, rank these three from most scum / lynchable to least:
BB
Arch
Zach

Also my top 3 at this point would be Beyond Birthday, Has, and Archon.

Beyond is #1 for me. I am finding it difficult to reconcile his actions today as being even remotely town, even bad town.

Has is #2 I see a lot of sitting back, very little interest in any of the discussion, and him just generally looking like he's just trying to fan the flames.

Archon actually falls down to #3. Not a big fan of his play, but unlike Beyond, he could just be bad town.

Pablo's probably my biggest town read actually, and Seteal's case on me is actually pretty fair, and I don't really have anything beyond mild speculation on her. If my response to her vote indicated that I was hugely suspicious of her, that's really not the case, it was really more of an overreaction to her vote. (Something I do often and need to eliminate from my play.)

I'm definitely going to be advocating for Beyond Birthday's lynch tomorrow. I don't expect anything to change my opinion overnight.

[hasdgfas]

Great, so the collective conscensus on Looker is "I dunno"?

Town, rank these three from most scum / lynchable to least:
BB
Arch
Zach

#1: Zach/BB tie. I believe I've explained my reasons for this.

#3: Archon. I said yesterday that I don't think 2 scum would both be playing as badly as these two, but it is possible.