Mini 773- Welcome to Lynchville! Perfection! (Over)

[BrianMcQueso]

Archaist, which of the following best describes your role:

A) You select a player, and then you learn who that player targeted.
or
B) You select a player, and then you learn who targeted that player.

This is very important.

[ChiefSkye4]

I'm just gonna post this now, so I don't forget:
I am reporting a V/LA for Friday-Sunday. I'm going to be traveling out of the country and will have no web access. I will participate as much as I can today, and when I return on Monday, I will catch up. Thanks.

Also, I noted Red's request that I read the more current posts, and I guess that's in order. I just was getting so confused, and had no idea what the huckleberryfinn was going on earlier, so I thought a reread would be helpful for my scum-hunting, and me posting my thoughts would be helpful for town, but I understand the urgency of the matter with the deadline and my future absence and all. So, seeing as we're on page 12, I think it'll be good for me to start reading from....page 8? It's a guesstimate, so if anyone has any other suggestion, please let me hear it. Anyway....TALLY-HO! Off to reading

[Archaist]

Archaist, which of the following best describes your role:

A) You select a player, and then you learn who that player targeted.
or
B) You select a player, and then you learn who targeted that player.

This is very important.

A is a tracker, B is a watcher. I am a tracker. Why is this so important and what do you intend to do with that information?

[ChiefSkye4]

Alright, starting on page 7...

Cat's 162 is town, gives good vibes.

Light's 163 is disturbing because of the policy-lynch support, but that's somewhat of a policy thing (a scummy policy, but not enough to base a case off of).

Page 8:

More disturbing policy lynch talk, and virtually useless posts until Archaist's 186, which I think is a bit of an overreaction, but at least we're getting serious again.

First few Archon posts are rather useless and empty...

Red's 195 presents a rather solid case on Light.

KK's and Archaist's back-and-forth over WORD CHOICE is pretty much a waste of space, but soon evolves into something slightly useful.

Alexhan's 206 is the first solid, clearly laid out Archaist case/vote I've seen yet.

Archaist gives a fairly good defense 207. Not completely name-clearing, but I never suspected him that much in the first-place.

Brian and I seem to agree on a few points in his 211.

Lester's vote in 219 seems like utter bandwagoning. *frownyface*

Alexhans is seeming town, because it would have been really easy for scum to keep their vote on, and pretend to never notice the L-1. But he seems to show genuine concern for the situation. Town points for you.


Alright, I gotta run and see my school's production of Godspell (wootwoot). I'll (hopefully!) check in later and keep going.

[afatchic]

Your "We finally got a Votecount" Votecount!

Kublai Khan-(3)-Archon, Archaist, Light-kun

Light-kun-(3)-RedCoyote, LesterGroans, qwints
No-Archaist-(2)-cateraction, BrianMcQueso
Lynch-(1)-ppp973

Not voting-(3)-ChiefSkye4, alexhans, Kublai Khan,
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

(This incluedes votes through post 281)

Archon Is V/La until tomorrow...
ppp973 has been prodded and has about ten hours to pick up his prod/post before he gets replaced.

Anyways, Deadline has been lifted as of now for two reasons:
1) I just think things are going real well right now with activity and everything, and that it would be a bad time to force a deadline.
2) I most likely will be getting a ppp973 replacement.
**Just a heads up, once a replacement is found, or ppp973 returns, i will be implementing a 5 day deadline**

No... I knew you would ask... check the first post by the mod... The asterisks are there... I don't know why. I just copy pasted. In my wildest dreams that would be a mod mistake signalling who is scum...

Not quite! I use the asterisks to signify prods, so i don't lose count. I guess I should have stated that somewhere. Anyways, it's nothing more than that. Sorry!

[Light-kun]

This doesn't feel right, Archaist, to me, feels as though he's just a townie digging himself into a hole about the whole policy lynch comment.

You're exactly right.

Unvote.

This has gone too far and the defense of my comment being logically correct doesn't seem to be helping me. quints brings up some interesting points, but I think that KK responds well to them.

I will claim, because the deadline is approaching and my lynch will not help the town; I am a tracker.

...okay. Looks like KK hasn't answered enough today.

Unvote; Vote Kublai Kahn

This is a crap shoot for me. I know I'll look pretty good if KK is scum. But...I am gonna look suckish is KK is town. Still, I can see the scum...and qwints, more or less, reaffirms that earlier thought.

[qwints]

OK, so light-kun's last four votes are
1) opportunistic - archaist
2) OMGUS - RC
3) opportunistic - archaist
4) a "crap shoot"?

Way too much vote hopping with way too little reasoning.

unvote, vote Light-kun

[Kublai Khan]

...okay. Looks like KK hasn't answered enough today.

Answered what? You (again) haven't asked me any questions.

This is a crap shoot for me. I know I'll look pretty good if KK is scum. But...I am gonna look suckish is KK is town.

Still, I can see the scum...and qwints, more or less, reaffirms that earlier thought.

What does the bolded part mean?

[RedCoyote]

It's unfortunate that Archaist had to claim, and obviously we're going to be taking it with a grain of salt, but I think the claim alone should be enough to draw our attention elsewhere. Incidentally, I've seen no reason to change my vote.

In addition to my three points in post 195, Light-kun hasn't explained his erratic voting behavior adequately. I'd specifically point out his jump from Archaist to me and back again. I don't think he had a reason he could stand behind, he had made reference to the theory that I voted him without considering him scummy, but that's not backed up by anything I've said. When I asked Light-kun how, why, or when I had appeared more scummy than Archaist, he dodged the question and revoted Archaist.

So if my fourth point (

4

) against Light-kun is based on his voting of me without reason, then my fifth point (

5

) would be his position on Pie/Archon.

Hm, it appears I miscued. At post 84, after rereading 81,

I should have proceeded to attack Pie

, who was very defensive when I doubly attacked Pie and KK. Also, KK shows superior logic and makes sense.

Now,

I would be more interested in Pie

, who has disappeared, which allowed Archon to come in, so I have yet to decide on my next move.

(empahsis added to both)

If Pie was worse than KK, if he thought he should have proceeded to attack Pie, if he was more interested in Pie... then why hasn't he been drilling Archon at all? I've held off on bringing this up, waiting for him to ask Archon anything or press him on anything. I can only find one instance of Light-kun even speaking to him, and it's not even a question.

If Pie was the person Light-kun was "more interested" in and more convinced was scummy than KK,

Scum: KK, Archaist (not together)

???: Everyone else.

why is he not listed under scum in this post instead of, or in addition to, KK? Why did Light-kun end up voting KK? No more "Pie was replaced" excuses anymore, Archon's had the role for over a week now.

---

I am reporting a V/LA for Friday-Sunday.

Alright, I gotta run and see my school's production of Godspell (wootwoot). I'll (hopefully!) check in later and keep going.

Ok, I understand real life, traveling, etc, etc. I don't mind that he's going on V/LA, but I mind that he didn't make more of an effort to throw down a vote. If he makes another post before the deadline with some solid suspicions then I'll withdraw this, but I want to make him aware that saying so-and-so is scummy is one thing but voting is another. Chief only voted once this game, during the RVS. That concerns me, and I think it should concern everyone.

The same thing goes for ppp, but less so. The reason ppp gets more of a pass is because of his style and also the length of his absence leads me more toward the idea that he just took off rather than he's holding out until D2 to come back.

[afatchic]

The replacement search begins now for ppp973.

EDIT: A miracle happened and i found a replacement in 3 minutes! hohum replaces ppp973, effective immediately. Everyone make him feel right at home.

Deadline is 5 days from now. May 6, 2:30 P.M.

[hohum]

doing a cursory read now

[hohum]

Unvote

No-Lynch is a bad idea.

More to follow.

[hohum]

Some of the conclusions I'm beginning to draw:

I might have a tendency to agree with qwint's take on KK because KK definitely is NOT playing to his town Meta right now. He's overly defensive, somewhat combative and keeps asking for more and more out of qwints to support his case.

However, qwints seemed to be trying REALLY hard to get KK lynched, then quite suddenly abandoned his case completely in favor of a Light-Kun lynch?

It's fine to change your mind, or go after different/better lynch targets but the way qwints was posting it sounded like there wasn't a doubt in his mind. In that context abandonment this close to a deadline is a decidedly scummy move.

The move reeks of an attempt to introduce confusion in the town.

Vote: Quints

For now, though admittedly I'm not done with my read yet.

[hohum]

Can't spell. Qwints

sorry.

[qwints]

Or a scummy player hopping on the bandwagon against KK made me re-evaluate my case.

Hohum, I also looked at KK's meta and I think you have to disregard the newbie games as being a different environment. Furthermore, there's only one scum game to go on. Thanks for replacing in!

[hohum]

Or a scummy player hopping on the bandwagon against KK made me re-evaluate my case.

Voting someone just because they hopped on a wagon is a bad idea whether you think they're scummy or not. Pack mentality is key for a successful town victory. Hindsight is the only way to judge a wagon properly.

If you think Light-Kun is scummy PLEASE go into more detail as to why.

Hohum, I also looked at KK's meta and I think you have to disregard the newbie games as being a different environment. Furthermore, there's only one scum game to go on. Thanks for replacing in!

He's played outside of the newbie queue as well.

[hohum]

And do it quickly because we're running out of time.

[qwints]

If you think Light-Kun is scummy PLEASE go into more detail as to why.

Here goes:

Iso 2

<3 Red Coyote for having my back on Cool Spot.

While I find it silly to vote for ppp based on his joke to vote for "the mafia", I'd like it a lot more if he'd at least try to contribute. While random votes on people doesn't provide much useful information, it's still

something

.

@ Kublai: PieisPopcorn has a point. I get the feeling you were trying to push that bandwagon without being on it. It's pretty minor as far as scumtells go, but combined with how snappy and defensive you're acting towards Pie in response, I think it's worth a vote switch.

unvote: alexhans

vote: KublaiKhan

And I find this opportunistic, vote stays. I am also giving a meaningless FoS to Pie for taking a joke (Clearly a joke. You underestimate town if you really thought people would vote PPP over that post) for more than it is, but you may have just been joking in return. I do not see this intent with the 7-Up guy.

Iso 3
After being asked to give reasoning for the opportunistic label

Looks like opportunistic wagoning for a weak reason, like a tack on bill. Reads scummy. See post I quote from Kublai.

I also think Pie is possible scum, but this is not contrary to Kublai's scumminess. Nothing more to say really...

Brian has a low percentage.

This is a fairly nonsensical post in response. He had not quoted a post from Kublai at this point. He calls BMQ's reasoning weak without saying why, and then says Brian is fairly unlikely to be scum. LK later says he intended to vote for KK in this post. I don't see any justification for such a vote in these posts.

Iso 5

@ Light-kun: I don't quite get you. From what I understand, you read my first "real" vote as opportunistic, and you voted me because of that. I get that, that's fine. But then you say that PieIsPopcorn and Kublai Khan are both scummy, I'm "low percentage" (meaning less likely to be scum), and from what I read from your post 70, you find Pie's argument against Kublai to be a convincing one.

Is all the above accurate? I'm just trying to get a hold on what you've been posting, but you've been doing it in a confusing manner (IMO, maybe it's just me).

Wow, honestly, I thought I did this already.

Unvote; Vote Kublai Kahn

When I said opportunistic, I thought I had switched votes to Kublai Kahn for some reason. I suppose that, maybe, I read someone else's unvote/vote KK as my own. Oh well, that's solved. (Yes, your above is accurate, but change that I thought KK, not you, was opportunistic.)

@Pie: What exactly? (I ask this, because I want you to modify what you were asking under the assumption I was voting KK, if that has any bearing. That, and I'm not quite sure what question you posed otherwise.)

LK is being completely inconsistent here. THERE IS NO WAY HE "FORGOT" TO VOTE FOR KK IN ANY OF HIS EARLIER POSTS. Read them. Iso 2 clearly indicates suspicion of Brian. He says his vote stays, it was on Brian. He says that "7-up guy" (Brian) does not have the same excuse as PieIsPopcorn.

[continues]

[hohum]

Weak sauce. Your case on LK is based around early observations that he was making which never resulted in a serious vote. His initial vote on Brian was completely random, which is why I can buy the "I forgot to vote KK" statement at face value.

Re post 52:

What you refer to as nonsensical may very well be nonsensical. Some people think out loud. He went on later to say that he was getting more of a town read on brian. Further more you took it out of context. I actually had to go and LOOK at what LK was referring to.

If you want my initial feelings about the game so far:

Scummy: Archaist. Kublai Kahn, lightkun and cateraction

Can you explain why you went after KK with such ferocity if Archaist was your top suspect? You've hardly touched on Archaist.

[qwints]

So after this strange inconsistency to get on the KK wagon, LK gets involved in a couple of tangential discussion that are a waste of time
No-Lynch: Iso 8 - 10 (Several posts asking to change the subject instead of doing so)
comic books: Isos 12-13
His scum hunting system : Isos 14-16

Then we get to iso 18:

I'm happy leaving my vote where it is for now, but:

Can we move off the novice discussion and move more on the KK versus Pie discussion?

I agree that moving off of bickering over experience is a good idea, but narrowing it down to two choices that early? It just seemed like you were trying to get people on either side instead of exploring more options.

Granted, but if the entire experience thing smells of giant deflection tactic, I'm all for revisiting the previous discussion until we can have an idea on both, and when we get in the mix of a 1v1 discussion, someone "on the sidelines" tends to do something scummy. My point is that this move is at least significantly better than the policy lynch discussion.

On PPP: Policy lynches can be good assuming people, in the time of discussing whether it should be followed through with or not because those who were going out of their way to defend him might be scum. This has happened though, so

I wouldn't really suggest policy lynching ppp at the moment

.

Secondly: Hm... excuse randomness:

People not voting Kublai Kahn: Do you think he's scummy, yes or no?

Why are we letting ppp distract us so much that Kublai's accusations are no longer being pursued?

Bolding is mine. The first part sounds too convenient... buttering up the idea that a policy lynch is reasonable, maybe in case you need to push one later? Especially the last bit where you seem to say that we shouldn't now, but we should put it on the back-burner. Weird.

Sometimes, a policy lynch is the best choice or necessary. I would say Empking policy lynches are probably necessary, as an example. Ppp, however, is stupid, but trying very hard to play well. I think he shouldn't be policy lynched.

Also: Not put it on the back burner, throw it out completely. Still, I can understand where you would get that idea.

This may be a town point in his favor as policy lynches can be a refuge for scum trying to get a fast lynch.

The second bolded part: no, I don't really. Aggressive maybe, but no more so than you. This whole post feels like you really want a KK lynch, but if it falls apart you'll settle for a ppp one instead.

-your percentage explanation seems weird and a bit of a cop-out
-your defensiveness at being called scum was also odd

I also want a replacement for Pie, as earlier actions were questionable and I want to see how the replacement plays.

-There not, but I will admit that when it comes to my method of devising percentages, I either tell the truth and be as vague as a "cop-out" or I lie. Neither bother me much, the town seems to like the truth slightly more.
-Defensiveness? Okay..., I'm sure anyone would be mildly defensive, but meh.

Second bold: Hm... okay then. I'll muse on that idea. And I want a KK lynch cause him or Pie is mafia in my mind set. (Both would be a slight possibility also.)

Saying that he sometimes lies about his scumhunting method is an interesting point, but I'm not sure what to make of it.
He also slips into a classic false dilemma frequently used by scum - one (or both) of two players attacking each other MUST be scum. Notice he omits the possibility of two honestly mistaken townies.

As for the KK thing: True, perhaps. But is it ever my job to look town? Or is to hunt scum, which is inherently townie? I just think we shouldn't waste time with a stupid policy lynch discussion.

Another attack on policy lynching.

Cateraction: Where do you think KK adress Pie's accusations? IF this is true, which I could have overlooked or not just missed in one of his posts, then I should certainly switch gears to Pie, who has been replaced, thus, I should question the brick wall to receive about the same amount of information.
Nah, I think the replacement should be able to make some sense of his play.

Here he puts forth the proposition that KK addressing Pie's accusations would make Pie a better suspect than KK

Iso 19

Hm, it appears I miscued. At post 84, after rereading 81, I should have proceeded to attack Pie, who was very defensive when I doubly attacked Pie and KK. Also, KK shows superior logic and makes sense.

Notice that LK has said that KK makes sense in his defense against attacks and that Pie is a better target.

This leads into LK's crapshoot of votes.

tl;dr summary

LK has totally reversed himself without a good reason twice, both times leading to a vote on KK. He has also vote hopped spasticly as deadline has approached. This seems much like the opportunism he started off saying was scummy.

[qwints]

Can you explain why you went after KK with such ferocity if Archaist was your top suspect? You've hardly touched on Archaist.

First your question is based on a flawed premise. I started reading from the beginning and KK stuck out to me as the most scummy in my initial read through and therefore was my top suspect. Second, I always acknowledged that I found the case against Archaist to be legitimate. I didn't elaborate on the case it had already been effectively laid out, and he claimed a PR 3 days after I replaced in.

[hohum]

So to summarize the second part of your diatribe:

in ISO 18 you give him some town points, you don't know what to make of him alluding to the fact that he sometimes lies as town, you correctly called him out for making stupid assumptions and you seem to be fixated on the discussion about policy-lynches which is mostly meta at this point.

Again, weak sauce. I'd like to see the answer to the question I posed in 293

[hohum]

never mind re 293, you posted before I did

[Kublai Khan]

Well, howdy Hohum.

I might have a tendency to agree with qwint's take on KK because KK definitely is NOT playing to his town Meta right now. He's overly defensive, somewhat combative and keeps asking for more and more out of qwints to support his case.

Geez.. You replaced in in 3 minutes and already you've had time to research my meta? Astounding.

He's played outside of the newbie queue as well.

Like Open 96?

Voting someone just because they hopped on a wagon is a bad idea whether you think they're scummy or not.

Isn't that exactly what you just did to qwints?

[hohum]

Well, howdy Hohum.

I might have a tendency to agree with qwint's take on KK because KK definitely is NOT playing to his town Meta right now. He's overly defensive, somewhat combative and keeps asking for more and more out of qwints to support his case.

Geez.. You replaced in in 3 minutes and already you've had time to research my meta? Astounding.

I responded to the replacement request in the replacement queue inside of 3 minutes. My first post in the game was just after 2:30 EST. My first relevant post (my analysis of your meta) didn't come until almost 45 minutes later, so I had plenty of time to research your meta.

Voting someone just because they hopped on a wagon is a bad idea whether you think they're scummy or not.

Isn't that exactly what you just did to qwints?

I knew someone was going to make this comment, so let me be clear about this:

I'm supportive of a qwints lynch and my vote and subsequent questioning was designed to make that fact clear to the town as well as why; but I don't realistically expect it to happen in 5 days.

It seems to have come down to a choice between you and LK, which is a tough call because both of you have some BS thrown on your cases and have had some legitimate points brought up against you as well.

If I went with my gut right now I'd change my vote to you instead of LK, and it's partly because of what qwints is doing. I've seen (all too often) games where people have replaced in and over-bussed their scum partners. I believe this to be one such case considering that he jumped from you onto the next most convenient wagon with some ULTRA WEAK reasoning behind the vote.

Either way I wouldn't mind losing one of the two of you in order to confirm my suspicion, though before I make my final final decision with my vote I want to hear what other people have to say.