Mini 734 - GrimMafia - OVER

[Zachrulez]

I'm going to

unvote:

for now until we're all satisfied that the day has been discussed adequately.

This feels a bit off to me, like you're trying to look town by promoting discussion.

Eh... that's a million kinds of weak as a point.

[Zachrulez]

Also my top 3 at this point would be Beyond Birthday, Has, and Archon.

Beyond is #1 for me. I am finding it difficult to reconcile his actions today as being even remotely town, even bad town.

Has is #2 I see a lot of sitting back, very little interest in any of the discussion, and him just generally looking like he's just trying to fan the flames.

Archon actually falls down to #3. Not a big fan of his play, but unlike Beyond, he could just be bad town.

Pablo's probably my biggest town read actually, and Seteal's case on me is actually pretty fair, and I don't really have anything beyond mild speculation on her. If my response to her vote indicated that I was hugely suspicious of her, that's really not the case, it was really more of an overreaction to her vote. (Something I do often and need to eliminate from my play.)

I'm definitely going to be advocating for Beyond Birthday's lynch tomorrow. I don't expect anything to change my opinion overnight.

[hasdgfas]

This feels a bit off to me, like you're trying to look town by promoting discussion.

Too-townie fallacy?

that's NOT what I'm saying.

I'm saying that he's trying to make himself look town, not that he looks town. The too-townie fallacy is that someone looks so town that they must be scum, while I'm saying he's trying to look town.

[hasdgfas]

I'm going to

unvote:

for now until we're all satisfied that the day has been discussed adequately.

This feels a bit off to me, like you're trying to look town by promoting discussion.

Eh... that's a million kinds of weak as a point.

which doesn't refute it at all, however.

[Zachrulez]

Feel free to continue fanning the paranoia of people already suspicious of me with weak points (That also have a simple town explanation.) rather than making any compelling arguments.

[hasdgfas]

Feel free to continue fanning the paranoia of people already suspicious of me with weak points (That also have a simple town explanation.) rather than making any compelling arguments.

make the town explanation then.
Defend yourself. This is a point that I feel strongly about in games I'm in, people looking town by doing silly things because "they're what townies would do"

[Zachrulez]

What exactly is silly about what I did?

[Pablo Molinero]

See, I'm becoming less and less keen on the whole no-lynch scenario now that it's being established that myself (and Seteal?) are looking fairly pro-town. I'm not so sure if either of those NKs would help anyone.

unvote

[hasdgfas]

What exactly is silly about what I did?

People who prolong the day to "promote discussion" are often scum who are going off of the mindset "longer days = good" when that's not always the case.

See, I'm becoming less and less keen on the whole no-lynch scenario now that it's being established that

myself (and Seteal?) are looking fairly pro-town.

I'm not so sure if either of those NKs would help anyone.

unvote

FoS

[Zachrulez]

What exactly is silly about what I did?

People who prolong the day to "promote discussion" are often scum who are going off of the mindset "longer days = good" when that's not always the case.

Do you have anything to back this up as a reliable scumtell or is it just often/sometimes?

How does my vote prolong the day anyway? You can vote for a no lynch at any time, and Setael has also expressed interest in it.

[Zachrulez]

Vote: No Lynch

Think what you want about why I'm voting no lynch again now. It's the move I ultimately support.

[Pablo Molinero]

FoS

Fair enough. Very dumb thing for town to say.

I know my stance on a No Lynch has flipped, but that's because it's brought about information that I didn't think of at first. To be honest, I have been less and less sold on B-B lynch for today, considering he has pointed out Vi's original point of No Lynching being useless when we actually have suspects. Which we do in Arch, B-B, and Zach. Correct me if I'm wrong.

However, Zach, Arch, and Saetel have entertained the idea, perhaps as a way to appease the town, make nice-nice for the day, and kill a protown player in the night. Obviously not the greatest argument I've got, but I'm always paranoid of those who don't challenge my logic (because upon further thought, No Lynch seems fairly faulty).

I think I need to do a complete looker re-read and see what I can see. In the one game that I've been responsible for a town win on this site, I did it pretty much solely with a lynched-scum reread.

[hasdgfas]

Vote: No Lynch

Think what you want about why I'm voting no lynch again now. It's the move I ultimately support.

I really don't like the wishy-washiness here by Zach.
I *hope* to do a reread of today once I get back from my exam, but it'll be a while.

[Archon]

FoS

Fair enough. Very dumb thing for town to say.

I know my stance on a No Lynch has flipped, but that's because it's brought about information that I didn't think of at first. To be honest, I have been less and less sold on B-B lynch for today, considering he has pointed out Vi's original point of No Lynching being useless when we actually have suspects. Which we do in Arch, B-B, and Zach. Correct me if I'm wrong.

However, Zach, Arch, and Saetel have entertained the idea, perhaps as a way to appease the town, make nice-nice for the day, and kill a protown player in the night. Obviously not the greatest argument I've got, but I'm always paranoid of those who don't challenge my logic (because upon further thought, No Lynch seems fairly faulty).

I think I need to do a complete looker re-read and see what I can see. In the one game that I've been responsible for a town win on this site, I did it pretty much solely with a lynched-scum reread.

Oh, re-read me too! I want to know what you think.

[Pablo Molinero]

FoS

Fair enough. Very dumb thing for town to say.

I know my stance on a No Lynch has flipped, but that's because it's brought about information that I didn't think of at first. To be honest, I have been less and less sold on B-B lynch for today, considering he has pointed out Vi's original point of No Lynching being useless when we actually have suspects. Which we do in Arch, B-B, and Zach. Correct me if I'm wrong.

However, Zach, Arch, and Saetel have entertained the idea, perhaps as a way to appease the town, make nice-nice for the day, and kill a protown player in the night. Obviously not the greatest argument I've got, but I'm always paranoid of those who don't challenge my logic (because upon further thought, No Lynch seems fairly faulty).

I think I need to do a complete looker re-read and see what I can see. In the one game that I've been responsible for a town win on this site, I did it pretty much solely with a lynched-scum reread.

Oh, re-read me too! I want to know what you think.

1) I really don't like this
2) The point of the reread is that we KNOW looker's alignment, we do not know yours.

[Setael]

@Pablo - can you elaborate on the no lynch change of mind? I feel that even if we have suspects (which I certainly do) it is still in the town's best interest to increase our chances of successfully lynching scum by narrowing down our options.

@Grimmy: Can we get a vote count?

[Beyond_Birthday]

BB, let me explain for the umpteenth time;

I understand the misconception, but it doesn't excuse your actions, just gives one possible explanation. The other is you thought the town is stupid and you're scum, but whatever. Nice try/be more attentive town.

I'm glad someone recognized my point against nolynch. (Borrowed from Vi, as I had that same stupid idea yesterday.)

Pablo''s comment about "losing him" was "stupid for town to say," but his general recent play has reflected well on his possible role. Given that Killa 7 infinite lurks, I suppose some leniency could be given to others... if only slight...

But I will worry about that, hopefully, tomorrow. Right now, I'm forced on Zachrulez. Setael's case adds confidence to my own thoughts. Also, as Pablo pointed, he entertained the idea of nolynch. I feel fairly certain he instantly agreed with Vi yesterday on this, could have been appeal to authority? (Much more legitimate than appeal to emotion argument against me since EVERYONE uses appeal to emotion. It is almost alignment blind.)

Archon's post on having Pablo reread him:
What do you expect him to accomplish? I dunno why any one of any alignment would make this post... it has zero motivation, does nothing, makes you look scummy. Well, I suppose this just another reason to keep you in my Zach+Archon scum theory...

Hm... I don't trust Has too terribly much either. About as much as Archon, but Zachrulez is my common denominator...

Essentially, I'm trying to figure this out: Zach, Archon, Has, Pablo, and Satael.

If recent play holds true

Zach, Archon, Has.

If I picked one/two scum:
Zach

If I picked his partner, both of the others seem feasible.

If I picked one/one scum:
Archon/Zach

So, the likely scum pair is Zach/Archon in the remaining players. OR! Zach or Archon is the lone partner of the wolf. Since zach suggested this, I am slightly more suspicious of Zach. Archon doesn't hold any notable connection to Looker, in my mind, but I could be wrong.

I really hope pablo's reread is insightful, but I'm still leaning heavily on Zach.

Fixed the quote bracket. Vote count to follow
Grimmy

[Beyond_Birthday]

EBWOP: Archon, not BB, wrote.

[Grimmy]

Feeling productive, the mod posts not only a vote count, but was able to fin the a quote bracket and install some eco friendly lighting in the place.

NO LYNCH

ZACH
ARCHON

BEYOND BIRTHDAY

HASDGFAS

ZACHRULEZ

B.BIRTHDAY

NOT VOTING

PABLO
SETAEL


WITH SIX STILL STANDING, IT WILL TAKE FOUR TO MAKE ONE OF YOU FALL.

Still no deadline needed, but I may hang some new curtains to brighten up the place...

Grimmy
the new Martha Stewart. (I think it would be fun as a guy to be locked up with all those women...he he he)

[hasdgfas]

Ok, let's take a little closer look at today.

unvote

while I look with a fresh mindset.

Post 853 by Zach is reall weird to me. First he's saying that I'm saying Archon is scum with my hypothesis/observation, then he also says that if I'm going to use it to try to call him scum that it's useless. I'm not at all sure what this post is really saying.

Post 857(also by Zach) is a wonderful way of WIFOMing Looker's suspicions. Why shouldn't we use the fact that Looker turned up scum to look at what he's said about people? Also, calls someone out on weak reasoning(1).

Post 859 by Archon just completely confuses me. I don't know how anything he says here has any semblance of anything involving logic.
Post 864 is the same.

BB's post 865 really rubs me the wrong way. That really weird speculation about colors seems to just be scum trying to confuse the town.

Post 870 is flailing scum. Completely. First off, he apparently knows it's lylo. That in itself is possibly enough to vote him. Not only that, but the first line is just flat-out wrong. Why isn't it pro-town to vote your strongest suspect? Sure, you could be wrong, but if it's your top suspect for scum, you still vote for them.

Post 872 also is ridiculous. I don't even know what he's trying to say. "You're scummy if you're town because one more vote lets scum pile on." that doesn't make sense.

Post 873: Archon, clearing someone through logic and what's said doesn't work. You have to go by actions and/or roles.

I still don't know what Zach is trying to say in post 877.

Post 880. Please stop setup speculation. I really think you're scum trying to confuse the town on the scumteams. We've had one kill each night as far as I can tell. What are you trying?

Post 882 seems to just be there but not really saying anything.

Post 883: AHA! I didn't see this before. Anti-miller? Whaaaaaa? whaaaaaa?

Post 885: Ok, this is just ridiculous. He's trying to lynch you......by clearing you?

post 892: scumscumdiescumdiescumscum

Post 899 I don't really know what it's made of here. Calls the cases and points against him weak(2).

Post 904 just blows my mind. I don't know how there could possibly be no reason to vote for anyone.

Post 913 I really don't like the unvoting for discussion when he's not trying to make any.

Post 923: Hesitant in what way, Archon? And if so, why are you voting NL?

Post 925: Calls my point weak(3)

Post 929: Calls the points against him weak again(4).

Post 932: I already said this was a really silly post by FoSing Pablo, but I'm currently feeling like it was just a momentary lapse in judgement.



So right now, I could see Zach or BB as scum, but not together(if we started with three).
If we started with three, I don't know who the third would be.

Zach has just been seeming to be flailing all day, and he's not even defending himself. His defense is "what a weak point" Not good enough, buddy.

BB, however, is trying to confuse the town with all this setup speculation and such. I'm happy lynching either one of them, but right now, Zach seems like a better choice.

vote: Zachrulez

[Zachrulez]

If you don't think we're both scum, why in the hell are you voting for one of us and then changing your mind?

Shouldn't you be trying to figure out which one of us is more likely to be town, and lynching the person you really think is more likely to be scum.

By the way, this doesn't qualify as reasoning me better.

"BB, however, is trying to confuse the town with all this setup speculation and such. I'm happy lynching either one of them, but right now, Zach seems like a better choice."

That's just you guessing, and your weak points are making excuses for changing your vote.

I submit that you don't really care about which one of us is REALLY more likely to be scum, I submit that you just want a particular lynch because it furthers your win condition.

I think you can say whoops in your mind now.

[hasdgfas]

If you don't think we're both scum, why in the hell are you voting for one of us and then changing your mind?

Shouldn't you be trying to figure out which one of us is more likely to be town, and lynching the person you really think is more likely to be scum.

By the way, this doesn't qualify as reasoning me better.

"BB, however, is trying to confuse the town with all this setup speculation and such. I'm happy lynching either one of them, but right now, Zach seems like a better choice."

That's just you guessing, and your weak points are making excuses for changing your vote.

I submit that you don't really care about which one of us is REALLY more likely to be scum, I submit that you just want a particular lynch because it furthers your win condition.

I think you can say whoops in your mind now.

I think both of you could be scum, the question is which of you.
Kinda like what I said about Archon and Looker yesterday. I seem to recall you not saying anything then.

[Pablo Molinero]

@Pablo - can you elaborate on the no lynch change of mind? I feel that even if we have suspects (which I certainly do) it is still in the town's best interest to increase our chances of successfully lynching scum by narrowing down our options.

Real quick as I'm in class: The whole point is that we have suspects. If we no lynch, it makes for an easy NK for scum in kiling someone not under the microscope and while our options are *technically* lowered, our true options (the current suspects) have not gone down. Also, it makes scum easier to quickhammer FTW.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Naturally, I disagree with a few point with Has, but I can agree with a majority of your statements about Zach, Has.

Also, I oft theorize about the setup. It may not be the most protown thing to do, but if I think I can delve into the setup, I will. I admit that my attempts to, occasionally, "outguess" the mod, might get annoying.

If you don't think we're both scum, why in the hell are you voting for one of us and then changing your mind?

Shouldn't you be trying to figure out which one of us is more likely to be town, and lynching the person you really think is more likely to be scum.

By the way, this doesn't qualify as reasoning me better.

"BB, however, is trying to confuse the town with all this setup speculation and such. I'm happy lynching either one of them, but right now, Zach seems like a better choice."

That's just you guessing, and your weak points are making excuses for changing your vote.

I submit that you don't really care about which one of us is REALLY more likely to be scum, I submit that you just want a particular lynch because it furthers your win condition.

I think you can say whoops in your mind now.

This post actually just hit me as scum trying to throw off the town for one mislynch.

Pablo, when you have time, any insight on Has' attack against Zach?

Has, do you think Zach and I could be scum together? I only ask because you're okay with etiher without commenting on a possible scum relationship. Since this idea is coming from someone who doesn't (shouldn't?) know any possible scum relation, it seems odd to not note an inverse (direct?) relation to our potential duel scumminess.

[hasdgfas]

@BB

:

So right now, I could see Zach or BB as scum, but not together(if we started with three).