Mini 761 - Game Over

[Zachrulez]

I suppose I was being overcautious about it.

[Hoopla]

First off, what is the general consensus on Jazz's alignment. If you believe she isn't setting up for a fakeclaim, and is genuine, she should claim last. This leaves the possibility of scum claiming a role she has, and catching them out.

Because I'm inclined to believe Jazz is not scum, I don't want her claiming first. We need to have the scummiest players claiming before the towniest, to leave them less room to wriggle knowing they could be countered.

[alexhans]

Ok... Hoop... But have you read the game yet? Who would you say are the scummiest and who the towniest?

[Hoopla]

Ok... Hoop... But have you read the game yet? Who would you say are the scummiest and who the towniest?

Yes, I've read all 27 pages - some wall-of-text posts I admit to skimming over, but I'm hoping to pick out some main things that bother/impress me, and then a brief analysis on the remaining players some time this evening.

I find the best way to catch up in games, is just to start posting and interacting with players. With my reads, I feel I can get a clearer picture when I'm the one talking with them, as opposed to being a third party, passively watching something I have no personal involvement with.

But, I get the feeling most of you guys like big analysis posts and semantics debates, so I'll do my best to please you in that aspect.

[Stephoscope]

First off, what is the general consensus on Jazz's alignment. If you believe she isn't setting up for a fakeclaim, and is genuine, she should claim last. This leaves the possibility of scum claiming a role she has, and catching them out.

Because I'm inclined to believe Jazz is not scum, I don't want her claiming first. We need to have the scummiest players claiming before the towniest, to leave them less room to wriggle knowing they could be countered.

For now, I find Jazzmyn's softclaim to be anti-town at best, and scummy at worst. Since she put things in motion for her roleclaim before there was any talk of a massclaim, I think we need to hear from her first before we even make a decision about a massclaim. We don't know what role Jazzmyn has, or what information she may be able to provide. While I do understand your point about possibly catching a scum, I am not confident enough in Jazzmyn's alignment, nor the idea of a massclaim, to agree with you.

[alexhans]

Well... I know that usually replacements are good for town (if they put effort into it) because they're objective and look at everything with cold-mind. Unless, of course, they're scum and they can do whatever they want. You must have some sort of idea even before interacting with any of us but I understand you wanting to see reactions from us.

I don't necessarily like long posts. I many times feel the necessity to adddress the issues one by one to make everything clear.

If you can cut to the chase with clear and concise reasons be my guest. We'll probably ask you to develop what we think necessary.

Mod: Can you Pm lester or something to let him know the game has started?

[X]

Vote Count

LesterGroans:

(1) ryan2754

Not Voting

: (6) alexhans, Hoopla, Jazzmyn, LesterGroans, Stephoscope, Zachrulez

Vote Threshold

: 4

Happiness with Posting Level

:

Satisified

Prodding LesterGroans.

[alexhans]

Hoop... what's with the creepy avatar??? scummy

[LesterGroans]

Sorry, I haven't been avoiding this game, just because night was so long it slipped my mind(been putting in new flooring so I've been a bit scatter-brained). Anyway, reading now-- and there's definitely a lot to read up on -- posting in a bit, just dropping this to let you guys know I'm sorry.

[LesterGroans]

@Jazz's softclaim: don't like it. It reeked of scumminess at first, but it also could have been over-eager town making sure people didn't make a mistake. Don't know yet. Still leaning slightly scummy, but I think at this point a full claim is necessary, as much as that irks me, because it's practically out in the open anyway. As to Hoopla's suggestion of Jazz claiming last if we're confident in her alignment to catch out possible scum, it sounds like a great idea, but are we confident in her alignment? I believe Jazz's activities to be suspect up until now, and it would be very easy for her to -- at this point -- choose a town player's role and call them out on it and get us to hang one of our own. I do like the idea of the scummiest players claiming first, unfortunately in my eyes that doesn't leave Jazz as last.

Your overreactive tone is setting off alarm bells in my head to be honest. Your post in response to Panzer yesterday had a similar tone.

This sounds a lot like pointless rabble-rousing. I'd be upset too if I was called out for rolefishing when the hints were fairly damn obvious.

Still reading back more, sorry...

[Hoopla]

Ooh okay, so I have some more thoughts I'd like to share with you all here. The good thing about replacing in this late in the game, is the ugly random phase (lets be honest, the first day or two) are out of the way and genuine connections can be sought. Although we have no guarenteed scum yet, I think my scum pool is narrow enough to look for pairings.

Hoopla's process of elimination (and also a brief opinion on each player);

Me - town
Jazzmyn - honest intentions, or rather more sensible actions coming from town. I've found her posts to be genuine and transparent. I don't think she is scum.
ryan - Solid play so far, slight worry about being the SK, but the sake of this post I'm not going to include him in any pairing excercises.

--

This leaves four players for me to initially focus on, and six possible combinations (if the two I think are town, are town) of scumpairs.

^ Likely
¦
¦

Lester/Zach - Zach has some early interactions with Pitstop who did fuck all really, but was quick to get distracted and focus on other areas. I like this scum tell, and find it has some merit, showing suspicion but not really doing anything about. Zach votes Lester now on D2, amongst a cloud of Panzer suspicion, and manages to wriggle out of his vote a couple of pages later to Alex.

¦

Zach/alex - D1 ties are fleeting - with Zach only questioning alex quite far into the game, and seesaws with his vote on him. If Zach is scum, I think alex is a decent partner chance.

¦

Lester/Steph - Lester removes his vote quite early when jumping into the game. He dismisses Steph and his ties remain minimal. Neutral on this.

¦
¦
¦

Zach/Steph - There's some obvious connections here early in the game, with Zach commending Steph multiple times. It also seems too obvious and something partners wouldn't do. Unsure.

¦

alex/Steph - Unsure on this, both players type a whole fuckload of massive posts that I hate reading. To make it worse they spend too much time saying too little. Other combos have higher priorities.

¦
¦

Lester/alex - Don't know, Lester seems to earnestly attack alex a couple of times, but judging from some of Lester's play I don't think he would have such a good handle on bussing if he's scum. Unlikely combo.

¦
¦
v Unlikely

So, this at least gives everyone a peak inside my head. Some more stuff on Lester that stood out for some reason;

In case I go in the night, a few things:

Didn't like the lynch (Wall-E always read as abrasive -- if not slightly obnoxious -- town)

Seems to be berating a lynch to gain some sort of credit for avoiding it.

So apparently there's a Serial Killer?

I'm not sure why on this, it just seems funny. Doesn't it seem funny? It has a curious-scum feel to it. Don't quote me on this one though.

--

I have some more I'd like to elaborate on, but this is where my reading has taken me so far. In summary though, Lester should die. I'm undecided on the order for the next two though.

[Hoopla]

Wow, I'm exhausted, I'm going to take a powernap now. When I awake, I want to talk about the pros and cons of massclaim. Goodnight thread

[Jazzmyn]

If we do come to an agreement about massclaiming, I think that Stephoscope, Lester and Zach need to be at the top of the queue.

Regards,
Jazz

[Stephoscope]

If we do come to an agreement about massclaiming, I think that Stephoscope, Lester and Zach need to be at the top of the queue.

Regards,
Jazz

So you're calling me scummy? Well, get this: I absolutely refuse to roleclaim unless you go first (not just before me, before everyone). I am extremely uncomfortable with your repeated references to some kind of role without actually coming forward with anything. The longer you go on, the more anti-town--frankly, scummy--you look. You felt it necessary to start talking about your role before there was any discussion of a massclaim; now it's time for you to finish your own claim before trying to move on to anyone else's. There is something mighty suspicious about your softclaiming and overall behavior. Compare and contrast: I've said absolutely nothing about my own role, and do not intend to until the time is right. Going before you would not be the right time.

I'm out for the (real-life) night, I'll have more tomorrow.

[Jazzmyn]

If we do come to an agreement about massclaiming, I think that Stephoscope, Lester and Zach need to be at the top of the queue.

Regards,
Jazz

So you're calling me scummy? Well, get this:

I absolutely refuse to roleclaim unless you go first (not just before me, before everyone).

I am extremely uncomfortable with your repeated references to some kind of role without actually coming forward with anything. The longer you go on, the more anti-town--frankly, scummy--you look. You felt it necessary to start talking about your role before there was any discussion of a massclaim; now it's time for you to finish your own claim before trying to move on to anyone else's. There is something mighty suspicious about your softclaiming and overall behavior. Compare and contrast: I've said absolutely nothing about my own role, and do not intend to until the time is right. Going before you would not be the right time.

I'm out for the (real-life) night, I'll have more tomorrow.

The bolded portion tells us just about everything we need to know about your alignment. Thanks for that.

Vote: Stephoscope

Regards,
Jazz

[alexhans]

Zach/alex - D1 ties are fleeting - with Zach only questioning alex quite far into the game, and seesaws with his vote on him. If Zach is scum, I think alex is a decent partner chance.

lol... yeah right! this totally makes sense... He puts me at L-1 when I look like being attacked from all sides... and he was not the only one to question me. Ryan did too.

And why do you think JAzz is town? I'm starting to think it might be you anb Jazz. You're too eager to believe her.

I totally disagree with your last post... YOU DONT GIVE REASONS but state a few isolated opinions and decide that a player must be lynched... Why don't you go back and answer the questions I gave you? And what happened with the "I want to interact with players to get a feel on them" stuff? You didn't even speak to Lester...

If we do come to an agreement about massclaiming, I think that Stephoscope, Lester and Zach need to be at the top of the queue.

Disagree. No massclaim. You claim and answer my questions to the full extent of your knowledge. Massclaim with 3 scum would be disastrous.

JAZZ YOUR VOTE SUCKS. You're behaving so scummy.

Vote Jazz

Take responsability for your actions. If you decided to claim, claim. Don't ask us all to claim first so you can fake claim accordingly.

[X]

Vote Count #666 - Muahahah

LesterGroans:

(1) ryan2754

Stephoscope:

(1) Jazzmyn

Jazzmyn:

(1) alexhans

Not Voting

: (4) Hoopla, LesterGroans, Stephoscope, Zachrulez

Vote Threshold

: 4

Happiness with Posting Level

:

Satisified

[Jazzmyn]

That's a very interesting reaction, indeed, alex.

Regards,
Jazz

[alexhans]

indeed. You want to pair me with someone? Go on, I don't care. I'm just getting the worst vibes from you following what I thought about you yesterday. And I was a little taken aback by your softclaim and was willing to believe you. But I don't care anymore. Once Lester has posted his opinions I want you to claim AND answer everything I asked you to the fullest extent.

[Jazzmyn]

indeed. You want to pair me with someone? Go on, I don't care.

Methinks thou dost protest too much. Care to point out where I "paired" you with anyone?

But your reaction here is wayyyy over the top, any way you slice it. And that is most interesting, indeed.

Regards,
Jazz

[alexhans]

Say why it's interesting! interesting scum? interesting town? You can't just throw phrases like that to throw suspicions on others without explaining yourself.

Town players prefer to be as clear as possible. You are not doing that.

Where did you pair me? When you say I reacted interestingly (To your vote on Steph) it seems that you're pairing me with him. What else can it be?

WAAAYYY OVER THE TOP WHAT? You vote for Steph in an extremely, unexplained, opportunistic vote.

Explain what the f&/% do you mean. You're pissing me off.

[Zachrulez]

She didn't pair you Alex, Hoopla did.

[Jazzmyn]

Say why it's interesting! interesting scum? interesting town? You can't just throw phrases like that to throw suspicions on others without explaining yourself.

Town players prefer to be as clear as possible. You are not doing that.

Where did you pair me? When you say I reacted interestingly (To your vote on Steph) it seems that you're pairing me with him. What else can it be?

WAAAYYY OVER THE TOP WHAT? You vote for Steph in an extremely, unexplained, opportunistic vote.

Explain what the f&/% do you mean. You're pissing me off.

Wow, what an amazingly over the top reaction you have to a single vote on someone other than yourself (in this case, Stephoscope). Yowza. That is seriously strange.

Regards,
Jazz

[alexhans]

strange so? What's your follow up? Just toss suspicions around? She says something but doesn't follow up... I found her vote on Steph akward because it looked like she was waiting to find a reason to vote the one that is suspicious of her. I'm not liking her actions 1 bit. And now she tries to play it cool thinking that an enraged Alexhans can benefit her? I don't think so... I may be angry by her actions but I'm gonna be Ice cold. I'm not gonna let anything pass.

[ryan2754]

Wow... I was doing meta on another game and saw this
Mini #618 - Farside of the moon - over!... a 3 s 1 sk 8 t example. (with doc, vig & cop as Town PRs)... I thought this setup was unbalanced but it seems some mods will use it all the same... so I think we should be extremely careful with votes because it may take 1 wrong vote to fuck everything up... If we have this setup then we have to lynch scum because if we lynch SK we're dead.

On anther note, I liked ryan's analysis. I find votting patterns EXTREMELY useful to find scum. I was planning on doing one in this game but he made it before and chronologically too so... kudos to him. If he is scum, he gave us good info anyway.

If we're in that setup, there's only 2 town left. It would also mean that one of Ryan or Lester is not town on the premise that we didn't immediately reach a quick hammering lynch.

Anyway, Hoopla was talking mass claim not that long ago. Did we get any kind of a consensus on that?

I am confused on how that would make me or Lester not town? I don't understand your premise. Care to clarify?

Either way, this whole Jazz/Alex exchange intrigues me. I think Alex may be responding a little too harshly, but not without reason - Jazz isn't really helping her situation.

With regards to the mass claim, I am looking at it this way:
Everyone, and I mean everyone, in this game is going to have a different opinion on how/who should roleclaim first. Someone is going to want to take the lead, and others are going to cast suspicion for controlling who claims first. Either way, both of these measures seem fairly anti-town to me. It's going to cause a lot of commotion that is uncecessary at this point.
I really don't like Jazz's so far avoidance of her softclaim...

Hoopla, thus is starting my attention. Not only does she bring up the idea of a massclaim, but desires Jazz be last. She seems to be putting a lot of trust in Jazz that I feel is unwarranted. Not only that, she deals with scumpairs, which I despise, by the way, and consider it generally a form of tunnelvisioning.