Mini 757 - South Park Mafia (Game Over)

[Spolium]

Timmah! Timmyyyyyyy

The majority of my case is based on Empking's "the mod is lying" approach. How could I have built it before he started pushing that angle?

Sure, but the real reason behind that is Empking pushing falsehoods as truth and as a reason for voting. Which, while more egregious in this case than my own this isn't his first go around with such behavior in this game.

If you have something to contribute to the case, kindly support it and cite examples of what you mean instead of complaining about how nobody had a problem with him going after you.

From my own POV, at the time I was more concerned about you being scum (that's how my read on you was leaning).

Doesn't reflect well on you, if you're so locked into one individual that you're missing suspect behavior from others.

Look, as far as I'm concerned you were both grey areas, but in terms of playstyle Empking is close to unreadable - I'm not the only one who has been guilty of giving him a wide berth on this basis. On the other hand, your tone is - by your own admission - stilted/awkward, and you overthink everything you do then post it. These factors grabbed my attention a lot more.

I'm having trouble seeing why Emp would have blocked me - during D2 when someone asked him what he thought of me, he said I seemed pro town.

QFT.

Blaargh. Timmeh! Jibbaroo TIM.

[Empking]

Can't confirm either way.

I'm having trouble seeing why Emp would have blocked me - during D2 when someone asked him what he thought of me, he said I seemed pro town.

You acted townier day 2 than day one.

[mykonian]

I hate to say this, but I have to believe Empking. I am going to assume he is not an idiot, and in that case, he is more likely to be protown (more likely, and not certain, because of WIFOM).

unvote

I think I should give caf, ddd, zazie a bit more attention from now on. That's where the last scum must be, from my point of view.

[Wall-E]

Wasn't Empking hammered already?

Unvote

in case he wasn't and I'm on his wagon.

The inconsistency with his claimed night-actions and calling Caf pro-town is alarming. Can you qualify this contradiction, Emp?

[Wall-E]

I just saw 576.

Unvote: Vote: ZazieR

Zazie's next on my chopping block.

Zazie, can you tell me what you now think of Spolium taking into account his responses to your posts?

[mykonian]

wall-e, I don't want to seem to be defending Empking (that never!), but this was the way I thought.

RB is highly unusual to claim if you aren't one.
RB target is likely real, either done by scum or town.
if not, you get easily caught.

So, assuming Empking is not an idiot, he blocked caf. And that means it is unlikely he is scum. (would scum block caf?)

and yes, this has some problems, but it makes at least more likely that empking is town.

[Wall-E]

He had a good chance to pick a vanilla townie when he claimed. RB is not that popular a role. Just playing Devil's Advocate, here.

[mykonian]

vote zazie

(L-2)

you and your possible partner are seriously fishing. Your vote on empking after a claim screamed scum (thank you DDD, but I won't assume you are town only for that unvote).

and wall-e: I told you the reasoning had a few problems. So it only makes it more likely, not absolute

[Spolium]

RB is highly unusual to claim if you aren't one.
RB target is likely real, either done by scum or town.
if not, you get easily caught.

So, assuming Empking is not an idiot, he blocked caf. And that means it is unlikely he is scum. (would scum block caf?)

and yes, this has some problems, but it makes at least more likely that empking is town.

I don't see what you're getting at. How does the unlikelihood of a townie claiming RB make Empking more likely town?

I think I should give caf, ddd, zazie a bit more attention from now on. That's where the last scum must be, from my point of view.

The

last

scum? What makes you think there were only two?

[mykonian]

The part between the () makes it more unlikely that he is scum.

I'm sorry, I thought I was correct by not specifying the amount, and I thought scum could also be a multiple. On 12, 3 scum total wouldn't be weird, so that is the amount I'm gambling on.

but I'm not sure. In any case, I didn't mean to say that I thought there was only one left because I assume that is not true.

[Spolium]

Why would scum be less likely to RB Caf?

Also, is English your first language?

[mykonian]

Spolium, the way my post was posted means that I'm not going to say that. You are smart, I'm sure you can find out.

No it is surprising how soon people find out every time (I'm dutch)

[Wall-E]

The Most Important Question Of This Page: Was Zazie town trying to lynch Empking based on well-reasoned arguments and Empking's past behavior (claiming at L-1 is not a scumtell, so it must have been predicated on past behaviors by Empking)? Or is Zazie scum trying to bus or get the town's RB killed?

Let's examine every post in which Zazie mentions Empking:

Dejkha, there should have been a reason why you 'suggested' the name claims. And I want to know what it is. It's hard to believe that you didn't have a reason for it, but just for kicks.
And no, you didn't state why you mentioned it. If you did, show it.

And Empking said that I was fishing after I asked Spolium if he had a PR.

Post 65. That's one wrong similarity you're making. The thing about the name claim was a question, wondering if there would be anything wrong with it. This implies that you are in favor for it. But the butt sex is a statement. It only shows that you don't like it.

Wait, you actually didn't have an opinion about it and just have faith in the players answering? You let others think about it, for what? You mention something in which you have no opinion. Not buying this explanation.

Yep, claiming to get rid of all the arguments against you is the right thing to do

Not stating reasons for suspecting someone is also the correct way to go...
So what's the reason for not doing so?

Yep, RBT doesn't answer the question about the PR directly. Seems RBT has something to hide.

Refusing to discuss something that might be worth to discuss (see post 99) makes him really look scummy.

God help the town if Spolium is Mafia.

Deja Vu! I'll definitly remember this.

It also makes much sense to call some players already lurkers...
But Spolium apparently did this as well (according to Caf), may I ask where as I apparently missed it.


It seems very likely that at least one PR is real.

As for targets I like the arguments put forward by Spolium about his target. I’ve got further suspicions about Spolium at this point, he tunneled pretty hard on dej which always raises my eyebrows and he seems to forget his post restriction at a rate that suggests to me he isn’t afraid of being modkilled because of it which then suggests to me that his post restriction isn’t authentic, but those are minor things compared to the arguments presented against RBT.

^^noted

As it stands however, I believe RBT is the best choice today; she’s provided next to no content other than agreeing when it’s easy and convenient to do so; making it obvious she’s still around but simply and willfully not participating. Also, if we assume her post restriction is authentic then her lynch would be helpful in at very least eliminating how the town is broken up between scum and town.

I don't follow the part about RBT's PR. Could you rephrase? Now that RBT was lynched, could you tell if what you wrote above did help?

You explained this later. I do think it's a weak reason for lynching RBT.

Dej, was there any hint that your death would be significantly different flavour-wise, when triggered by your ability?

Very innocent question at first sight, but in the end it's not. Can you tell me why town-Spolium would have liked to know the answer to this?
The same goes for DDD: Why would town-DDD would have liked to know the answer to this?
(I know Spolium gave an answer, however I'd like to know from him why it matters to a town player if scum did or did not perform a kill.)

If RBT doesn't reply satisfactorily within 24 hours, my vote's going on her.

Noted. I don't trust it when somebody makes a case, and doesn't vote. It gives me the impression that sombody is power role fishing.

Post 327: I want to hear why what DDD was pointing out in this post was scummy from Empking and Spolium.

I disagree with post 343.

Yes, I'm blaming the deadline for the lynch to a large degree. I came into the game four days before deadline, Dej was just at L-1 and all the suspicion quickly flowed from him to RBT after Dej's claim and by the time that bandwagon had reached critical mass there was basically no time left to find another target even if we wanted to. So at that point it became an issue of lynching RBT vs. no lynch, where the lynch of RBT was better, but wasn't the best option.

This combined with DDD's second post, screams scum to me.

The next damning thing is how Spolium asked someone who they felt was most town on dej's wagon. What. The. Flipping. Banana.

HUH??? Where?


Also, after having looked at these pages, I suggest a name-claim.

@DDD - analysis on Empking, plz

@Ghostwriter - analysis on DDD, plz

@caf19 - analysis on Ghostwriter, plz

@Empking - analysis on caf19, plz

What The *Beeb*?! What's the point of this?

I really couldn't follow the Emp-DDD discussion at page 16

Seriously? You think I'm scum (or at least that it's a good argument) because I was exploring what I thought was a possible contradiction/pressuring a fellow player? I could see that argument having some validity if I had pushed for Empking's lynch or tried to railroad him in the process, but that's simply not the case here.

I'm in the mood for some circular logic here Here it comes:
Because you can see the validity in the argument only if you had pushed an Empking lynch, you decided not to do it in order to avoid suspicion.

Vote: ZazieR

She has posts since her last post in here so it's not that she simply hasn't been around, it's that she's chosen to not involve herself further in the game. If we the town don't create a disincentive for this sort of behavior then we implicitly condone it.

Yeah, use the difficult words on the Dutch girl
I don't like to read many pages when I'm busy with other stuff. The mod knows about this, and the co-mod especially.
What's your point actually with this vote?

Look at it from my perspective Spolium, if the day continues on as it has then I get inevitably lynched because I'm apparently the only serious candidate today, except I know I'm pro-town, so if I don't do something to get the game moving then all those bad things about being in LYLO, well they happen anyways.

So, you're just gonna vote a player who hasn't been posting. In other words, you're doing the same you criticised Eso for. Noted.

what do you guys think about his leadership in this game thus-far?

He was only a 'leader' day 1. His switch to agree with other players during day 2, is suspicious though.

Anyway, I'll wait with my vote till I've heard the responses to my posts.
Also, think about my name claim suggestion and add reasons why you want to have one or not. I'll explain later if needed why it's a good thing, but I rather don't want to explain it.

Aside from the vote-post, I see only three mentions of Empking by Zazie. None of them explicitly implicate Emp.

What's the deal, Zazie?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

The majority of my case is based on Empking's "the mod is lying" approach. How could I have built it before he started pushing that angle?

Sure, but the real reason behind that is Empking pushing falsehoods as truth and as a reason for voting. Which, while more egregious in this case than my own this isn't his first go around with such behavior in this game.

If you have something to contribute to the case, kindly support it and cite examples of what you mean instead of complaining about how nobody had a problem with him going after you.

Should've already been clear, but the similarities are apparent. Both times Empking isolated on a single player and pushed them as scum, both times Empking's "logic" was non-existant. In this case it's more obvious that he's just pushing a lynch, but in my own case after discussion it appeared there was a consensus that the point Empking was pushing my lynch on what was possibly useful supporting evidence at best and a complete null argument more that likely.

From my own POV, at the time I was more concerned about you being scum (that's how my read on you was leaning).

Doesn't reflect well on you, if you're so locked into one individual that you're missing suspect behavior from others.

Look, as far as I'm concerned you were both grey areas, but in terms of playstyle Empking is close to unreadable - I'm not the only one who has been guilty of giving him a wide berth on this basis. On the other hand, your tone is - by your own admission - stilted/awkward, and you overthink everything you do then post it. These factors grabbed my attention a lot more.

I can understand why I drew your and other people's attention, but that doesn't excuse neglecting the anti-town behavior of another player. Neither does claiming "other people did it too".

[Wall-E]

Zazie: You make the occasional grammatical error while posting hastily. It's barely noticable, and your meaning is still clear, so no worries.

[Empking]

Wasn't Empking hammered already?

Unvote

in case he wasn't and I'm on his wagon.

The inconsistency with his claimed night-actions and calling Caf pro-town is alarming. Can you qualify this contradiction, Emp?

He acted a lot townier day 2.

DDD: My logic was not non-existant either time.

[Wall-E]

The majority of my case is based on Empking's "the mod is lying" approach. How could I have built it before he started pushing that angle?

Sure, but the real reason behind that is Empking pushing falsehoods as truth and as a reason for voting. Which, while more egregious in this case than my own this isn't his first go around with such behavior in this game.

If you have something to contribute to the case, kindly support it and cite examples of what you mean instead of complaining about how nobody had a problem with him going after you.

Should've already been clear, but the similarities are apparent. Both times Empking isolated on a single player and pushed them as scum, both times Empking's "logic" was non-existant. In this case it's more obvious that he's just pushing a lynch, but in my own case after discussion it appeared there was a consensus that the point Empking was pushing my lynch on what was possibly useful supporting evidence at best and a complete null argument more that likely.

For those of us unskilled in reading into pronouns, what argument was likely null or supporting evidence and supporting of what? I'm confused by this post because it lacks referential treatment.

From my own POV, at the time I was more concerned about you being scum (that's how my read on you was leaning).

Doesn't reflect well on you, if you're so locked into one individual that you're missing suspect behavior from others.

Look, as far as I'm concerned you were both grey areas, but in terms of playstyle Empking is close to unreadable - I'm not the only one who has been guilty of giving him a wide berth on this basis. On the other hand, your tone is - by your own admission - stilted/awkward, and you overthink everything you do then post it. These factors grabbed my attention a lot more.

I can understand why I drew your and other people's attention, but that doesn't excuse neglecting the anti-town behavior of another player. Neither does claiming "other people did it too".[/quote]

QFT

Happy Birthday DDD.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

If you have something to contribute to the case, kindly support it and cite examples of what you mean instead of complaining about how nobody had a problem with him going after you.

Should've already been clear, but the similarities are apparent. Both times Empking isolated on a single player and pushed them as scum, both times Empking's "logic" was non-existant. In this case it's more obvious that he's just pushing a lynch, but in my own case after discussion it appeared there was a consensus that the point Empking was pushing my lynch on what was possibly useful supporting evidence at best and a complete null argument more that likely.

For those of us unskilled in reading into pronouns, what argument was likely null or supporting evidence and supporting of what? I'm confused by this post because it lacks referential treatment.

Empking's argument revolved around me mistakenly questioning him on an issue due to me missing part of RBT's claim. After hashing it out most people seemed to accept that it was a mistake and thus no an indicator of alignment, at most it would've been a piece of collaberative evidence used to backup other, stronger points. Empking on the other hand declared it to be clear indication I was scum. (See pages 14 through 17 if you need to go back and read it all again).

[caf19]

So, assuming Empking is not an idiot, he blocked caf. And that means it is unlikely he is scum. (would scum block caf?)

Is there a reason in particular why scum wouldn't block me?

[Wall-E]

Also, why would an idiot necessarily not block Caf?

[Empking]

If you have something to contribute to the case, kindly support it and cite examples of what you mean instead of complaining about how nobody had a problem with him going after you.

Should've already been clear, but the similarities are apparent. Both times Empking isolated on a single player and pushed them as scum, both times Empking's "logic" was non-existant. In this case it's more obvious that he's just pushing a lynch, but in my own case after discussion it appeared there was a consensus that the point Empking was pushing my lynch on what was possibly useful supporting evidence at best and a complete null argument more that likely.

For those of us unskilled in reading into pronouns, what argument was likely null or supporting evidence and supporting of what? I'm confused by this post because it lacks referential treatment.

Empking's argument revolved around me mistakenly questioning him on an issue due to me missing part of RBT's claim. After hashing it out most people seemed to accept that it was a mistake and thus no an indicator of alignment, at most it would've been a piece of collaberative evidence used to backup other, stronger points. Empking on the other hand declared it to be clear indication I was scum. (See pages 14 through 17 if you need to go back and read it all again).

You were the scummiest player and acting like you are anything less than very sure is anti-town.

[mykonian]

Also, why would an idiot necessarily not block Caf?

you misunderstand something here. Scum, that was not an idiot, would not block Caf.

omg, missed something. And does this fit?

Caf claims that he knows something about the nightkill.
empking claims to have rb'ed Caf.
caf does not cc.

caf/emp scumteam???

caf scum?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Caf claims that he knows something about the nightkill.

Link or post number please.

[Spolium]

I think he meant Zaz.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I think he meant Zaz.

Yeah, but then his series of statements don't appear to make any sense.