Wheel of Time Mafia: Rip in the Pattern (GAME OVER)

[Albert B. Rampage]

Why the hell do you guys assume there is a vig?

And even if there was an Aes Sedein with a vig, they would in all likelihood have other abilities such as tracking or investigating. A good course of action is to lynch the claimed SK.

[fuzzylightning]

He is not a claimed SK ABR. He has not even mentioned that he definitely will become an SK, we have mentioned the

possibility

of it occurring, but it has not occurred yet, and there are better options that have been mentioned time and again, you are trying to push foor an easy lynch right now, and that isn't getting you any town points with me.

[Moratorium]

unvote

I believe SpyreX's claim, in fact I voted for him because of it, but if there is a concerted effort to use him while he's a double-voting townie, I can agree to that. There's no way we can allow him to live until the end, but from how everyone's talking (or claiming), it sounds like hopefully we might have at least a few options on how to deal with him if need be.

What MOST people are arguing with me about is if he's a Jester, not whether or not we should lynch Jesters.

I haven't read the novels, is there a flavoury book equivalent to Jesters that could make this plausible, in the same sense that there's a flavoury book equivalent to males that go crazy after using their powers?

[Albert B. Rampage]

He is not a claimed SK ABR. He has not even mentioned that he definitely will become an SK, we have mentioned the

possibility

of it occurring, but it has not occurred yet, and there are better options that have been mentioned time and again, you are trying to push foor an easy lynch right now, and that isn't getting you any town points with me.

No, we are certain that he will be an SK. All male AS become SKs.

[Albert B. Rampage]

In the current age, the Dark One's taint on saidin causes any male with "the spark," whether or not he learns to channel safely, to inevitably go mad and succumb to a wasting sickness which causes the sufferer to rot alive.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Another thought just occured to me, Aes Sedain CANNOT VIG a townie that will become an SK. They are not allowed to kill anyone but Darkfriends. This is why we should LYNCH the claimed SK right here, right now.

[MacavityLock]

Another thought just occured to me, Aes Sedain CANNOT VIG a townie that will become an SK. They are not allowed to kill anyone but Darkfriends. This is why we should LYNCH the claimed SK right here, right now.

Why do you assume that AS are the only roles that could potentially vig?

[Isacc]

He is not a claimed SK ABR. He has not even mentioned that he definitely will become an SK, we have mentioned the

possibility

of it occurring, but it has not occurred yet, and there are better options that have been mentioned time and again, you are trying to push foor an easy lynch right now, and that isn't getting you any town points with me.

No, we are certain that he will be an SK. All male AS become SKs.

Really? You know this for a fact? You

know

that 100% all male AS become SKs? Why do you know that?

Now,

that

argument aside, your little justification?

Nice Wikipedia clippet. Really shows a lack of actual thought, from a person who seemed to know the flavor pretty well.

What about Rand? Logain? Mazrim Taim?

You are trying to justify your case with extremely superficial arguments that look at purely the surface level. Yes, the One Power is destined to turn male channelers insane. However, haven't other male channelers survived it before? Some have survived longer by not using the power as often, some have survived longer by pure willpower. Either way, there are more than enough examples of times that men were able to sustain themselves for awhile, so I don't see why it's all doom and gloom with you.


Next, what's with the arguments I keep seeing of "what if he becomes un-Nkable, investigation immune, this immune, that immune!?!?"

I want to ask, are we really saying the most likely scenario is that Kinetic is going to make the male channeler into an ultra-super-pwnage SK who can neither be killed, investigated, gentled, or looked at funny?

Come on, this is all

screaming

a hard push at an easy mislynch.

Now, yes, a male channeler should be a figure of caution, even considered a

potential

threat. But we are not quicklynching someone who is currently town.

In the mini, the scum pushed for a quick VanDamien lynch...why? Because it HURT the town!!!

So, at this point, I think Albert is looking worse than Flay. I don't understand why Flay thinks that male channeler also = jester, but at least that confusion explains his actions. ABR however seems to understand the role the same way as most of us but is pushing hard (HARD!) for a lynch. That rubs me the wrong way.

Unvote. Vote: Albert B. Rampage

[SpyreX]

Because with Jesters, you remove the distraction as soon as possible. Even if they win individually, they don't prohibit anyone else from winning once they're gone from the game.

Yes, you

remove

the distraction. By vigging it, ignoring it or anything else. I don't play for second nor do I expect most people do. Which, if you actually believed what you were saying, you would be doing.

Which is impossible. Not only does practically no one "constantly" hit scum, but you cannot reliably claim credit for it every time. I'm not being snotty at you, nobody can do that, even Pooky or Glrok. It's a team effort for killing scum. So how do we determine that you are "lord of the scumhunters", again?

By being open and upfront and building actual cases that hit scum. By showing I have no ulterior machinations. The only way I could be alive would be to kill scum until the game ends before I become the inevitable lynch.

Which means: if I was actually an SK now OR planning to actively become an SK I would have put myself in a scenario where winning is all but impossible.

You already know my opinion on the first, but yes, if we don't lynch him, I suppose we should try to gentle him. Then someone can explain to me how we've confirmed that that worked (by the way, I fully expect gentled characters to have a shorter lifespan, so he's unlikely to last to endgame anyway).

Which is fine. If I come out and say I'm gentled and thats a lie it WILL be found out and I WOULD hang for it. So, again, I've put myself in a position of if I am not town I can not win.

I think that if he can be gentled, he should be gentled. He has already said that he shouldn't make it to the end game, which lends credence to Flay's argument that he could be a jester type role. If he is a Jester, I think he should just come forward and admit it and we can lynch him and get it over with.

I am not a jester. Although, it'd be an amazing play if I was - I'll freely admit.

I'm still waiting for a real rebut on these statements:

1.) What I have done today absolutely makes no sense if I am an SK.
2.) What I have done today makes -very- little sense if I am scum.
3.) What I have done today DOES make sense if I am exactly what I say I am and tried to confirm another town role but screwed it up because ar != in.

Can someone correct me if I am wrong: Shadowvoting is not double voting is it? In the mini I think it allowed a vote to be placed on someone other than who you actually voted. I do not think it allowed for a 2nd vote to actually be cast, only appear to be cast.

It is a 2nd vote. It can be on the same person, or I can put it on someone else. As far as I can tell, they DO count normally.

Could I be any more plain: I think SpyreX is a male Channeler who wants to be lynched because of his insanity. In other words, a Jester! I've not said word one about disbelieving him for being a male channeler, stop putting words in my mouth.

I am a Male channeler who

has

to be lynched (or gentled/whatever) before end game because of my insanity. I don't want to be lynched. However, it makes very little sense for me to be alive at end game (minus an AS that is known as town saying they know for sure I am gentled + an investigation that knows I'm town which is an absolute waste of town resources).

Why the hell do you guys assume there is a vig?

And even if there was an Aes Sedein with a vig, they would in all likelihood have other abilities such as tracking or investigating. A good course of action is to lynch the claimed SK.

Again. Show me where I said "OHH HAY I AM SK." or even where I said "Ohh hay I will become an SK for sure." That conjecture didn't come from me because all I know is what I've said. It's a -fairly- logical route but that assumation != I claimed SK ffs.

Please, more votes here. Kthx.

(Also, I'm pretty sure I never, ever said I was an AS or anything like it. Because I'm not. I'm really not sure where you got that from).

I want to ask, are we really saying the most likely scenario is that Kinetic is going to make the male channeler into an ultra-super-pwnage SK who can neither be killed, investigated, gentled, or looked at funny?

Come on, this is all screaming a hard push at an easy mislynch.

Now, yes, a male channeler should be a figure of caution, even considered a potential threat. But we are not quicklynching someone who is currently town.

In the mini, the scum pushed for a quick VanDamien lynch...why? Because it HURT the town!!!

So, at this point, I think Albert is looking worse than Flay. I don't understand why Flay thinks that male channeler also = jester, but at least that confusion explains his actions. ABR however seems to understand the role the same way as most of us but is pushing hard (HARD!) for a lynch. That rubs me the wrong way.

You forgot that with all these powers outs himself the first day in a maneuver that really doesn't do any good if the win condition is anything but town.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I think I've been fairly obvious that I believe SpyreX's claim is most likely true at this point, and that he is *NOT* a jester. In fact, worst case scenario, I believe his most likely "anti-town" role is that he might turn SK in the future, but that he is protown right now. I've already said what I want to do with him.

If you don't want any more claims today, there is an easy solution. Let's go back to lynching Fabian, who claimed at like Lynch Minus 10. Not only that, but he claimed doctor and claimed ability results that could not be confirmed by anybody. It's pretty much a classic scum claim if you look at it mechanically and ignore the flavor (which is fairly generic and easily faked for this theme).

Unvote, Vote: xxFabianxx, FoS: Mr. Flay

[Faraday]

Unvote, Vote: xxFabianxx, FoS: Mr. Flay

While you've given reasons for your vote, this is still a bad vote. I think he's very likely to be telling the truth.

[Shadow Knight]

So now my options for vote are ABR and MOS.

[Isacc]

If you don't want any more claims today, there is an easy solution. Let's go back to lynching Fabian, who claimed at like Lynch Minus 10. Not only that, but he claimed doctor and claimed ability results that could not be confirmed by anybody. It's pretty much a classic scum claim if you look at it mechanically and ignore the flavor (which is fairly generic and easily faked for this theme).

"Back" to lynching Fabian? When were we doing that to begin with?

I don't understand your reasoning at all. Fabian's claim was utterly retarded. At L-10 it pretty much screwed him over. You're saying that's classic scum claim? A

bad

claim is classic scum? I thought scum

want

to survive?

Plus I have a simple counter-argument. Why lynch a claimed doctor

day 1

? If he is lying and is secretly an anti-town power role, I think we can afford to let him live 1 more day

at least

. However, if he is honest (which, he probably is) then lynching him today means killing off a town power role for the scum and 1 less protective role.

[armlx]

Just finished last final, wrapping up random stuff tonight, real post tomorrow.

[Kinetic]

I've got a very heavy workload right now and I'm not going to have access to my computer. No vote count will be up until maybe late tonight or early tomorrow. I'm sorry for the inconvenience this may cause.

[Seraphim]

UnFoS
FoS: Mr. Flay

You should know better than that. Seriously.

[Knight of Cydonia]

# This is particularly for MoS, KoC and Faraday, but anybody can/should answer:If you don't think SpyreX is a Jester, what do you think his role is?
# What is the best case scenario for dealing with SpyreX, in your estimation? Try not to reveal your role while you're answering this one...

I think SpyreX is a currently pro-town double voter, but on previous evidence of

saidin

channelling roles, I have no doubt he will become something far more dangerous, and anti-town. The best solution, IMHO, is to dispose of him before Day 2 - gentling, killing, or, if we can't find scum, lynching.

[Albert B. Rampage]

If he's going to turn eventually, why are we bothering to keep him around?

Its not a mislynch if he's going to be SK on day 3. This easy lynch thing is crap.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Gentling him is unrealistic because we don't know how many AS there are, what their abilities are, and if they have used them yet. There would be no way of coordinating a gentling convention, and it would either end up with an unsuccessful gentle because there weren't enough AS, or a waste because there were too many. The best solution is to lynch him right away.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Finding scum > getting rid of a potential SK. The Serial Killer is alone - he virtually has to be the last man standing. THe scum can win with a majority, so depleting their numbers to give us more time to find scum is paramount. SpyreX should be lynched if, and only if, we have absolutely nowhere else to go.

[Albert B. Rampage]

In my extensive experience, removing a confirmed future SK is equally important to *trying* to lynch mafia. If we lynch Spyrex we KNOW it won't be a mislynch.

It will also give our power roles a chance at tracking/watching/investigating for a night WITHOUT BEING OUTED DAY 1.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Having "extensive experience =/= being right". From the way you acted in the signup thread, you're still as stupid at times as brand new recruits, so trying to play the "I've been here longer, I'm right" card is idiotic. Also - remind me how our power roles can be outed by SpyreX still being alive? Fabian's dumb claim and SpyreX's confusing and dumber claim aside, I don't see any more claims yet.

[Shadow Knight]

The more you push this, the more I think we'd be best off by lynching you and directing and and all Aes Sedai here to gentle spyre tonight.

[Isacc]

In my extensive experience, removing a confirmed future SK is equally important to *trying* to lynch mafia. If we lynch Spyrex we KNOW it won't be a mislynch.

It will also give our power roles a chance at tracking/watching/investigating for a night WITHOUT BEING OUTED DAY 1.

Your extensive experience?

Your extensive experience should tell you that scum lynches are preferable to SK lynches. Your extensive experience should also tell you that it's better to use night actions to dispose of SKs, as a scum lynch is preferable to anything.

Your extensive experience also gives no evidence towards the fact that he WILL become an SK eventually. You really have no ethos in this situation, especially not over the many people who

were

in the mini and disagree with you.

ABR; he has no kill tonight, I GUARANTEE it. He's surely town right now, and he won't become an SK

tonight

so lynching him now does NOT save town from any negative effects, therefore you are pushing an unnecessary lynch.

Here's another problem with this unbelievably bad plan by ABR: we know exactly what he'll flip, so the lynch is going to lead us right back to where we are now, with the people from his wagon having a free pass to be excused from analysis on their lynch behind this craplogic of "OMG WE HAVE TO LYNCH HIM NOW BEFORE WE ALL DIEEEEEEE!"

[Shadow Knight]

Whoops, "you" is ABR, not KOC.