Mini #764: Notre Dame Mafia, Game Over

[DrippingGoofball]

Kinetic.

I don't believe you used the plague on CTD.

So the whole argument falls apart.

[DrippingGoofball]

@ charter

Don't put un-necessary wear and tear on your typewriter arguing with Kinetic.

He's scum. You won't convince him.

More importantly, we need to know if he's willing to help, and bus ortolan.

[Kinetic]

Kinetic.

I don't believe you used the plague on CTD.

So the whole argument falls apart.

Well I did...

If you are convinced of this, there is some way to prove it though.

First: We know about who could have used Plagues on Day 1. Assuming no one lied or failed to reveal.

Second: You know for certain what my other two cards we. 1/4 NK and Rat. You know this because the person who passed them to me confirmed it, and the person after me confirmed that they weren't passed to them.

Third: If I used my plague last night, that person will die tomorrow. If all the plague kills are claimed then you will know that I either A) Used my plague as I stated, or B) Did not use my plague.

Fourth: If the third event happens, then the beginning of the fourth day if there are plague deaths, and they are accounted for, then it is again proven that either A) I did not use my plague, or B) I used my plague as stated.

Unfortunately my other cards are hard to prove I still have by using. The 1/4th does nothing if I use it, and the Rat can only have Bad implications if I use it.

However, if I were scum there would be little reason not to use plague, and use it as soon as possible. While not a perfect defense the best proof that I used it as I have said would be depending on the deaths on Days 3 and 4.

[Kinetic]

@ charter

Don't put un-necessary wear and tear on your typewriter arguing with Kinetic.

He's scum. You won't convince him.

More importantly, we need to know if he's willing to help, and bus ortolan.

What, pray tell, is he trying to convince me?

[charter]

Kast, would you rather lynch Kinetic or ortolan? The decision of who we lynch today depends solely on you. Choose wisely!

[zwetschenwasser]

I used double. DGB is sounding like a whiny baby.

[AceMarksman]

I'm tired, just got in, but I'm pretty sure there's at least one scum in: [ortolan, zwet, kinetic, dgb]. I would include charter in this list, but I don't see his unreleting stance on budja to come from a scumbuddy.

[zwetschenwasser]

*facepalm* not the bussing WIFOM crap, please.

[charter]

zwet, I urge you to start looking back at the game and scrutinizing the Budja wagon. Both scum gave themselves up yesterday.

[zwetschenwasser]

I am. The Budja wagon seems mostly townie to me.

[AceMarksman]

I am. The Budja wagon seems mostly townie to me.

Your crap cardpassing looks scummy to me. To refresh, he passed a sactuary, an apoth, and a mimic over a plague, a rat, and a double.

[charter]

...there's more to it than just who was on Budja's wagon. Who avoided it? Who slipped on in the end? Who didn't jump off when there was a more popular wagon? Who pushed for it? Who tried to push other wagons, but eventually gave up?

The answers to all of these questions are extremely telling to people's alignment.

[zwetschenwasser]

Ace, I already told you that the card passing was for more machismo reasons than anything.

[AceMarksman]

you drew the scummiest card in the game over two of the most town to feel more like a man? Really?

[Kinetic]

Wow...

I just read Budja in isolation... and I didn't find him particularly scummy...

Am I losing my touch or is there a major bus going on?

[zwetschenwasser]

you drew the scummiest card in the game over two of the most town to feel more like a man? Really?

Yes. Is that so hard to believe?

[ortolan]

I am going to concentrate on charter now because it's looking like he is in fact DGB's scumbuddy- looking like the only way I can explain his complete about-turn (her coaching him in quicktopic last night).

Bullshit, he wouldn't have died if you did.

Um...have a look at the setup. There are cards entitled "rats". These can be used to negate doctor protections on someone for one night. Scum are highly likely to use at least one of these on their intended target, particularly if they are widely considered pro-town and likely to draw doctor protects. In fact, I happen to know for a fact that at least one scum

did

use a rat card on CTD last night, because I used a doctor card on him. I am wondering if there is any reason we shouldn't mass-claim last night's night-choices (apart from revealing plague targets), then someone may get caught lying (because they in fact used rat on CTD). The only problem with this is people may be able to fake-claim quite easily e.g. "I used a doctor on

random person

. I would be interested in Kast's (and anyone else's) opinions on this issue. I'm also of the opinion that if anyone else happened to use a doctor protect on CTD, they should claim it now- that way we know (insofar as town believes both of us) that both scum's night actions were dedicated to "rat"ing CTD.

He argued for Acemarksman for the longest time, then argued for DGB. He was completely devoid in the lynching Budja process until the very end. Same as Rishi. Also, ZEEnon's replacement is possible scum. I forgot him in my first list.

The person you are addressing here (DGB) was

very

firmly against the charter lynch, in fact for much longer than I was. I was never against the Budja lynch at all, he was 2nd/3rd in my suspects behind AceMarksman and later DGB (and by the end Ace had fallen below him, putting him 2nd to DGB). So tell me why you are so much surer that I am scum than DGB.

Anyone who targeted CTD with anything but helpful cards is possible scum. He was easily one of the top three townies. The fact that you hurt one of the main drivers of Budjascum's lynch is incredibly damning. I could lynch you too.

Quite a few things wrong with this. You agree he was one of "top three townies" (who are the others out of interest, and what order would you place them in???), but you don't believe I would use a doctor protect on him? Why is this?

The other thing is that CTD (confirmed town) very strongly agreed with my case on DGB. In fact, he even said:

Lastly, I am ready to move my vote to DGB as soon as my vote would put her into the lynching threshold. So if someone wants to put another vote on her, please go ahead.

which implies that his top two preferences for scum, at that point were

exactly the same as mine

. Yet, you say he was extremely obv-town (yet not obv-town enough for me to use a doctor protect on, but obv-town enough for Kast to be obv-scum for plaguing him), yet now I am extremely obv-scum?

You never justify in any way why you are "100% sure ortolan is scum" either.

There were two acceptable cards to use on CTD. Those are the 1 shot doctor, and the 1 shot apothecary.

Blatantly contradicting yourself now re: my doctor choice. Also "CTD was obv-town but I will totally ignore his strongly stated opinion that DGB is scum, and only mention it in passing in 720".

No, you get a clue. CTD was literally the worst possible target for a plague.

So now he's moved from the top 3 to the most townie. You still need to tell me who the top three were, though.

...there's more to it than just who was on Budja's wagon. Who avoided it? Who slipped on in the end? Who didn't jump off when there was a more popular wagon? Who pushed for it? Who tried to push other wagons, but eventually gave up?

The answers to all of these questions are extremely telling to people's alignment.

These are mostly good reasons for suspecting DGB. Yet you don't...?

I just read Budja in isolation... and I didn't find him particularly scummy...

I concur.

I must admit I was quite sure of charter's alignment for a while after his role pm trickery, but I'm finding it extremely hard to see his posts today coming from a townie.

This was just charter, I can point out all of DGB's contradictions in my next post.

[DrippingGoofball]

What, pray tell, is he trying to convince me?

That you're scum.

[DrippingGoofball]

In fact, I happen to know for a fact that at least one scum

did

use a rat card on CTD last night, because I used a doctor card on him.

I believe neither.

WHAT ARE YOUR OTHER CARDS, ORTOLAN???? YOU HAVE TO JUSTIFY YOUR USE OF THE DOCTOR CARD.

So tell me why you are so much surer that I am scum[...]

@ charter - don't waste your time. It's obvious to everyone. It's just going to make your blood boil. You can't win an argument with scum - they'll never say "oh yeah, I see your POV, I'm going to self-vote now." And you won't convince his buddy, either. But there are 7 players that are not scum, and the evidence is as plain to see as daylight.

I'm still thinking zwet is scum.

There may still be a SK whose kill was foiled. The only 'evidence' is zwet's cards.

TOWN
1.) AceMarksman
2.) ac1983fan (rep. Albert B. Rampage)
3.) charter
4.) Kast
5.) DrippingGoofball (rep. KidIcarus)
10.) Rishi
11.) ZEEnon (rep. Slicey)

SCUM

6.) Kinetic

8.) ortolan

12.) zwetschenwasser

[AceMarksman]

you drew the scummiest card in the game over two of the most town to feel more like a man? Really?

Yes. Is that so hard to believe?

It's not hard to believe coming from zwet!scum.

Vote: Zwetschenwhateverhisnameis

[zwetschenwasser]

Stop trying to explode your craplogic case out of proportion. It only makes you and DGB stand out.

[AceMarksman]

Craplogic? Really? you took the scummiest card in the game over two cards that would help the town. That's not craplogic at all. Stop with the ad hom.

[charter]

I am going to concentrate on charter now because it's looking like he is in fact DGB's scumbuddy- looking like the only way I can explain his complete about-turn (her coaching him in quicktopic last night).

Hilarious. I was town all day yesterday, I lead the charge on a scum lynch, and today I'm scum. Hilarious.

I was never against the Budja lynch at all, he was 2nd/3rd in my suspects behind AceMarksman and later DGB (and by the end Ace had fallen below him, putting him 2nd to DGB). So tell me why you are so much surer that I am scum than DGB.

Yes, thank you. This was exactly my point. You tried to get Ace or DGB lynched all day, rather than Budja. Budja was scum.

Quite a few things wrong with this. You agree he was one of "top three townies" (who are the others out of interest, and what order would you place them in???), but you don't believe I would use a doctor protect on him? Why is this?

That quote was directed at Kinetic, not you. Top three townies were kast, CTD, and myself, we were the three main drivers of the Budja lynch. We never waivered on it.

Blatantly contradicting yourself now re: my doctor choice. Also "CTD was obv-town but I will totally ignore his strongly stated opinion that DGB is scum, and only mention it in passing in 720".

No, you're taking things I was saying to Kinetic like they were directed at yourself. This confusion seems to be the majority of your problem with me, which isn't what actually happened.

These are mostly good reasons for suspecting DGB. Yet you don't...?

Oh no, I do, but I suspect you much much more.

There may still be a SK whose kill was foiled. The only 'evidence' is zwet's cards.

This is an open setup, there's three scum and nine townies.

[zwetschenwasser]

Nice catch, charter.

Unvote; Vote: DGB

[charter]

zwet, how on earth does that make her likely to be scum?