Saving Nasubi: Game over, Nasubi is Dead Long Live Nasubi

[elvis_knits]

Elvis, do you think that, at this stage of the game, trying to figure the setup is more important than scumhunting?

I'm usually not big on guessing the setup, and think it can be a distraction. But in this case, I think one can help the other.

How do you think we save Nasubi?

[Claus]

I think we save Nasubi by lynching all the scum.

So, like I said, I think that what we should do now is to try and find the scum in the bandwagons and relationships so far. In other words, play the traditional day game of mafia.

If the majority of the town thinks we should try to break the setup open, we can try to do that. I vote against it, but if I am outvoted I will fully cooperate with what I know and what I guess about the setup, but not before then.

What I DON'T think that helps Nasubi (and the town) is what is going on right now - a mixture of setup discussion AND bandwagoning. That only leads to town confusion. And DGB is the main one behind it.

[DrippingGoofball]

Claus really is in the dark.

[Claus]

I'm pretty sure that you are scum, DGB, and that is all the light I need for now.

So, no scumhunting?

[Claus]

EDIT: So, no scumhunting from you, DGB?

[DrippingGoofball]

You really, really don't get it. And I don't want to clue you in, either.

But see. I have a list of players that are 100% town. How I know that is none of your business. You'll also notice that the rest of the players are doing the same; we are feeling each other out.

So now I have a list of 5 players that are either scum, or Nasubi. And I have to zero in on the scum, while avoiding Nasubi.

I also have to avoid Nasubi candidates in a way that is not conspicuous to the scum.

Since you haven't figured that out for yourself, like the rest of us have, through cryptic messages, I suggest that you're scum.

[Claus]

Very well.

And I say you are full of shit. The way that you know that the players are 100% town, is because you are scum.

You are trying to convice the other players that this is some sort of AitP game where the town has to find Nasubi befre the Mafia does, when there is NO info in any of shaft.ed's messages or PM's that suggest it.

Why are you doing it? Because it distracts the town from scumhunting. It makes some townies feel important by trying to save a puzzle which has nothing to do with hunting scum, and is ultimately pointless. And it helps you and your scumteam feel for power roles.

I suggest that you are scum. I would like to know what the rest of the town thinks.

[Claus]

And to the other players - what do you think happens when Mafia tries to NK the nasubi player, or the town mislynches nasubi? Here is my guess:

In the real world (tm), members of a mailing list eventually came close to finding Nasubi's apartment real address. When they did it, the production of the program took nasubi out of his apartment and moved him to another location.

So let's focus on finding the scum.

[DrippingGoofball]

Sure, let's see what everyone else thinks.

[camn]

I agree with DGB.

[Sajin]

I agree with DGB.

[Claus]

Sajin, Camn: Okay. Reasons?

[elvis_knits]

I agree with dgb.

I know what she means: person we lynch today must be from the list of 5.

[Claus]

Do you think your list is the same as her list?

It seems to me that your list of "town" people is made by people who have softclaimed certain "VT" roles. What if the scum have fakeclaims of one of those roles. Wouldn't that break your "eliminate by softclaim" plan?

[elvis_knits]

I do think my list is the same as hers because I know her criteria, and I also have 5 people. I do not think you know the criteria. It is not people who have softclaimed VT.

Seeing as some people are catching on to this, and some are not, it is likely the scum do not know what is going on at this point, and are not fakeclaiming.

[Claus]

Well. I don't know the criteria. It does seems to me that it involves softclaiming, and this idea is so full of holes that I want myself nowhere near it.

I don't think a balanced game would have an easily discernible criteria for finding "100% town" players, which is what DGB claims. Are you claiming that your criteria let's you identify 100% town players, and that you found 6 of them already?

[DrippingGoofball]

In the real world (tm), members of a mailing list eventually came close to finding Nasubi's apartment real address. When they did it, the production of the program took nasubi out of his apartment and moved him to another location.

Keep guessing. And how would this work in a mafia game?

[Tenchi]

In the real world (tm), members of a mailing list eventually came close to finding Nasubi's apartment real address. When they did it, the production of the program took nasubi out of his apartment and moved him to another location.

I mean I have no problem with scum hunting but what this only achieves is it encourages us to not try to look "could he be Nasubi" angle when we do our lynches. Which makes us less careful with who we lynch.

DGB is not saying we don't scum hunt. DGB is saying, if we can, we should also be careful of not lynching Nasubi. (Because we don't even know whether the "production team" would "move Nasubi out" when he is about to/going to get lynched, is true)

Vote: Claus

Also, Seraphim's continued absence/lurking is noted

FoS: Seraphim

[shaft.ed]

Nasubi plods through his stack of index cards. You wonder what he's hoping to win now.

Vote Count:

Claus

(4) DrippingGoofball, elvis_knits, Stephoscope, Tenchi

farside22

(1) Llamafluff

Sajin

(1) zwetschenwasser

DrippingGoofball

(1) Claus,

Not Voting:

Seraphim, farside22, camn, Sajin

With 11 alive it's 6 to lynch

[Tenchi]

(general message to everyone)

Your group, dedicated to saving Nasubi has been infiltrated. They know your plans to help save him, and are trying to stop you. Just last week Oman, Nasubi's biggest fan and a former member of your message board was found floating face down in a local hotel pool.

It seems the killers are going to try wiping you out first, then they can move on to their real prize.

Here. The mafia is trying to wipe us out first (Get the majority of the town). This leads me to believe that we are simply playing a normal mafia game with fanciful flavor and specialized roles, and not a game with a completely different strategy as DGB's want to imply.

Pseudo-Discussing this "different strategy", with half words, without really talking about it, is a distraction from scumhunting, and really scummy from DGB.

Also, you should also not forget the other Mod note. Nasubi is in this game! I think that is what you have been missing in your POV. Right now we know that Nasubi "has not won anything" for the past two days. And knowing that some of us still have roles that can feed Nasubi, we also have to squeeze in some strategy on how to:

1. Get the food to Nasubi
2. Not lynching Nasubi
3. Prevent a Nasubi NK

For me those are the additional things in play in this game that (unfortunately) we cannot discuss directly in the open. But of course, we can still discuss them indirectly to further narrow it down for all of us.

You, on the other hand, is trying to make us ignore this part of the game.

[farside22]

@claus I hereby acknowledge your post and will have something on Friday for everyone here.
Right now I need to take a chill pill.

[Claus]

Also, you should also not forget the other Mod note. Nasubi is in this game! I think that is what you have been missing in your POV.

No, I'm not.

The note about nasubi being in the game is nothing more than a clarification to those whose whole may act differently when targetting nasubi. It lets them know that the game is not bastardly in the way that they will never actually target him.

Think of it as a gunsmith who gets told "there are actually people with guns in the game".

Nasubi winning nothing is simply a reminder to those with those roles that they did not manage to target nasubi. There is NO counter to nasubi-starvation. There is NO explicit note that we must feed him before day X or endgame. A "food distributor" role is nothing more than a fancy "nasubi cop" role.

And about NK, just think about the following:
There WAS a night 0. If we would lose the game by having nasubi NK'ed, scum would have a higher than 10% chance of winning the game outright on night zero. Even if nasubi was somehow immune to NK's on night 0. The lack of an NK would tell the scum that they had hit gold, and they would simply try it again on N1. So no, I'm pretty confident in saying that NK'ing the nasubi player will NOT end the game.

For me those are the additional things in play in this game that (unfortunately) we cannot discuss directly in the open. But of course, we can still discuss them indirectly to further narrow it down for all of us.

That is the thing, though, tenchi: By discussing but not really discussing this things, the town is not scumhunting. No one is analyzing voting patterns, re-reading the thread for warrantless bandwagon, or making questions about the vote. Everyone is just worried about finding nasubi without saying it too loud.

Who do you think is scum? Why? These are the questions I think the town should be discussing now, and no one really is. This will cost us the game, not the amount of rampant nasubi speculation.

[Claus]

DGB is not saying we don't scum hunt.

Oh, but this is the whole point of my DGB vote, tenchi. DGB IS saying that we should not scumhunt, and she HAS avoided scumhunting the whole game.

I made a post trying to review scumtells/towntells from people and, more importantly, trying to get people to discuss these scumtells and towntells, and what is her response? "That is not the way we play this game". So yes tenchi, DGB is very much trying to distract and prevent us from scumhunting.

This very wagon - it started as a lurker wagon, then became a "he disagrees with us" wagon. No one is worried about who I voted or ceased to vote. About if the people in or off the wagon have good or bad motives. All which is being discussed is "OMG! He thinks we should be making normal scumhunting!"

[LlamaFluff]

We shouldnt lynch claus, im about 99% sure he is not a threat to town win condition.

[Claus]

In the real world (tm), members of a mailing list eventually came close to finding Nasubi's apartment real address. When they did it, the production of the program took nasubi out of his apartment and moved him to another location.

Keep guessing. And how would this work in a mafia game?

You wake up in the morning, and the first thing you notice is: Nasubi's room looks different. Also, one of the oldest posters in your forum has stopped posting - your hero was among you the whole time and you never noticed!

- IOW, he gets removed from the game, and we move on.

Now my turn to make you questions - say you lynch me and I flip town. Name two people you think are scum and would like to lynch next,

and the reasons

?