Newbie 744 -- Game Over!

[alexhans]

I fosed Ash for dropping the hammer without explaining. I still see that as a possible newb mistake because he seemed to regret it but it made me wary anyhow. Also, That was way after (Day 2 start) my pressure vote on him and my accident (Day 1).

[charter]

So Charter, anything you want to add about your opinions?

Yes. I realize that was a shitty readthrough, and I need to do it again.

Ok, Charter. Now I'm really curious why your vote as you only mentioned one of my posts, which wasn't even discussed by you in the post with your vote.
And how come you say C_o is town, when you hadn't even seen CntR's actions yet at that point?

And if you're so certain that one of blue and Raivann is scum, then why no vote against Raivann?

I don't think I've mentioned Conspicuous Other. And why no vote against Raivann right now, I really need to go back and see how more there is than his leaving that wagon like he did.

[ZazieR]

C_o is the replacement of CntR

[charter]

Yes, but CntRational had posted early in the game, it gave me town vibes.

[Yaw]

Vote Count:

Conspicuous_other (3): Kmd4390, knox, Raivann
knox (1): ZazieR
charter (1): Conspicuous_other
ZazieR (1): charter

Not Voting: alexhans

4 to lynch

[Conspicuous_other]

Anyway, I gotta say that this point makes Ash looks far scummier than CntR but as he registered 27 nov 2008 and Ash 27 Feb 2009 I tend to think about Ash as much more newb.

Not true. Look at their metas, Ash was in 2 other games while this one was going on, whereas CnT has played in one other game besides this one, so the difference in experience is negligible, if not nonexistent or actually in Ash's favor.

[alexhans]

Anyway, I gotta say that this point makes Ash looks far scummier than CntR but as he registered 27 nov 2008 and Ash 27 Feb 2009 I tend to think about Ash as much more newb.

Not true. Look at their metas, Ash was in 2 other games while this one was going on, whereas CnT has played in one other game besides this one, so the difference in experience is negligible, if not nonexistent or actually in Ash's favor.

It might be wrong but that was my impression... I didn't meta them.

[ZazieR]

Experience doesn't matter to me. Due to this quote, Ash's hammer looks bad to me even if he was a newb:

I think this is the hammer vote, and you are most likely going to condemn me for it, but I think it's in the best interest of the town to get rid of someone who acts scummy, and places votes without any real reason sooo....

But if experience would have mattered to me, it would have been bad for CntR. He had played one game already so he should have known better.

[Yaw]

Ok, everyone's here, and this day's been going 4 weeks. That means it's deadline time. Deadline will be

Tuesday, April 28 at midnight Eastern Time

. So you have a week.

Remember that the number to lynch does not change at deadline.

[Raivann]

Yes, but CntRational had posted early in the game, it gave me town vibes.

Which posts from CntR gave you town vibes?

[charter]

Yes, but CntRational had posted early in the game, it gave me town vibes.

Which posts from CntR gave you town vibes?

post 60, a lurker lynch is a great scum tool if people in the town accept it

Actually, now that I look back over his posts, I'm unsure why I thought his early posting gave me town vibes. That was really the only one in the first several pages.

I will be looking back through this game later tonight, looking at Raivann and ZazieR in particular.

[charter]

181- kmd, what? I've never seen you pull something like that as town before.

Pull what, exactly? I don't even see anything out of the ordinary in that post.

Jumping on blueshadow the way you did. First off, I can't believe that if someone says they did something not pro town, that will make you more willing to lynch them.

You left CntRational when he was at L-1 because "discussion is good" (a terrible reason to leave, because if discussion is good, clearly what is going on is working), and put blueshadow at L-2 for three reasons. First, doing the same thing CntRational did (not really a reason to switch votes), "admitting anti-town actions" which isn't a reason to vote someone at all, and "witholding information from the town" which is also not a reason to vote someone at all.

Will also look at kmd tonight, because this vote was extremely opportunistic.

[Kmd4390]

1. CnT is

still

scummy for that.
2. Admitting to not being protown is obviously scummy unless it's the scum claiming Gambit.
3. Yes, witholding info is scummy.

Really, you are jumping on nothing here.

[alexhans]

I agree with KMD... Post 60 is null tell.

[charter]

Ok, thoughts from a reread, hopefully this doesn't suck as hard as what I had earlier.

First thoughts, there is definately some shady business on page three.
51- Inclined to think this is a joke from Raivann.
52- This is bad by Boltrig. He's putting a seemingly serious reason under his RVS vote. The reason he gave was a poor reason to vote someone, even on page three.
54- If Dennis1993 is ever revealed scum, syndromeofadown is his partner.
61- This is why I voted ZazieR initially. This calling out of alexhans was forced. ZazieR initially called it null, but she asks these questions to paint alexhans as suspicious. Not realizing the game has started is in no way, shape, or form a scumtell unless you can tell me why scum are more likely to not know the game has started. Now, I wasn't here at the beginning, but his explaination makes perfect sense and I don't see how you can argue that his explaination wasn't true. In short, very scummy of ZazieR to force this suspicion under alexhans.
73- ZazieR now drops the alexhans line, and picks up a Mizz.Mafia one for not posting immediately in the thread. Perhaps I'm biased because it's my role and we now know Mizz.Mafia flaked so she was just never interested. But still, I am thinking this line of questioning has no where to go, just like the alexhans one.
74- Dennis1993 votes Mizz.Mafia, no reason.

116- Scummy post by Raivann in my opinion. What scum advantage would Mizz.Mafia gain by quitting Mafiascum? Why would it even matter because is no longer on the site. Also asked the loaded question at the end of the post.
I see this has already been covered.

141- Holy crap. Raivann just sweeps his loaded question under the rug. Very scummy.
160- Another blatently scummy post of Raivann. Leaves one wagon as it's about to be debunked to join the emerging wagon.
161- Scummy by blueshadow, but we don't need to worry about this.
166- Actually very odd by Raivann. Leaves the emerging CntR wagon to start the blueshadow one. Actually doesn't seem scummy to me.
179- Scummy of ZazieR. She is staying on the largest wagon, but planting the seed to go to blueshadow when that materializes.
181- I've already gone over why this was bad of Kmd4390. Very scummy to leave CntR because discussion is good and to hop on to blueshadow with poor reasons.
239- You 'believing' someone to be lying isn't much of a reason to vote them.
302- I'm inclined to agree with most of this.

Ok, based off of this, I'm thinking it's Kmd4390 and Raivann. Both have been highly opportunistic. I don't think I've seen either one mention the other in a negative light even a tiny bit. Don't really remember them interacting with anyone but whoever was the closest to lynch mostly.
I will go ahead and

unvote, vote Kmd4390

. If others prefer Raivann though, let me know.

[charter]

1. CnT is

still

scummy for that.
2. Admitting to not being protown is obviously scummy unless it's the scum claiming Gambit.
3. Yes, witholding info is scummy.

Really, you are jumping on nothing here.

1. The reason is not enough for him to be at L-1 currently.
2. ...so what would you rather have him do? Try and cover it up? Admitting to it is better than deflecting or ignoring or something else.
3. No, another bad reason to vote. Clearly he thought he had some clever plan worked up. Clever plans are normally to catch scum, and revealing them early ruins them.

I still don't see how Kmd4390 (or anyone else on the wagon) can still be clinging to a CntR vote like they are. I'm pretty sure at least one of the scum is on that wagon, in all likelihood, both are.

[ZazieR]

@Charter

In the random voting stage, I start with something little to get discussion started. In this case it was Alex and also CntR for not voting.

Mizz got called out and immediatly responded. That means she was following along, just not posting. And that is scummy.

And can you please explain why you got the impression that I was planning to join the Blue wagon if the CntR wagon would be halted (That's what I read)?
Because I had no intentions to do so.

Regarding this:

239- You 'believing' someone to be lying isn't much of a reason to vote them.

Have you read my posts afterwards which give more reasons and explanations, or not?


I also don't agree with your assumed scumteam.

[charter]

Will wait to hear CntR's response, but blue is begging for some votes as well (post 173).

This looks to me like either trying to get others to vote blue (horridly scummy) or setting yourself up to go on to his wagon (kind of scummy).

As for the posts following 239, I didn't really get what you were saying.

[Kmd4390]

Charter, if you are scum, you biggest threats are ICs, not newbs. You suspect both Zazie and myself. Coincidence?

Blueshadow was slightly scummier than CnT. And I wasn't looking for a lynch on CnT just yet. My real suspicions on CnT came much later.

1. CnT is

still

scummy for that.
2. Admitting to not being protown is obviously scummy unless it's the scum claiming Gambit.
3. Yes, witholding info is scummy.

Really, you are jumping on nothing here.

1. The reason is not enough for him to be at L-1 currently.
2. ...so what would you rather have him do? Try and cover it up? Admitting to it is better than deflecting or ignoring or something else.
3. No, another bad reason to vote. Clearly he thought he had some clever plan worked up. Clever plans are normally to catch scum, and revealing them early ruins them.

1. See my case. There are more reasons why CnT is scummy.
2. How about not be scummy. Or defend specifically against points. Kind of like Zazie did for CnT.
3. Then why mention it?

[charter]

Charter, if you are scum, you biggest threats are ICs, not newbs. You suspect both Zazie and myself. Coincidence?

Yes. You can check any newbie game I've been scum in, I don't go after the other IC because they are an IC. In fact, I normally NK them on night two. I find it much easier to mislynch newbies. This is also not a valid way of defending yourself. It's entirely possible both you and ZazieR are scum and I'm rightly suspicious of you.

Blueshadow was slightly scummier than CnT. And I wasn't looking for a lynch on CnT just yet. My real suspicions on CnT came much later.

Where did your real suspicions come from?

1. CnT is

still

scummy for that.
2. Admitting to not being protown is obviously scummy unless it's the scum claiming Gambit.
3. Yes, witholding info is scummy.

Really, you are jumping on nothing here.

1. The reason is not enough for him to be at L-1 currently.
2. ...so what would you rather have him do? Try and cover it up? Admitting to it is better than deflecting or ignoring or something else.
3. No, another bad reason to vote. Clearly he thought he had some clever plan worked up. Clever plans are normally to catch scum, and revealing them early ruins them.

1. See my case. There are more reasons why CnT is scummy.
2. How about not be scummy. Or defend specifically against points. Kind of like Zazie did for CnT.
3. Then why mention it?

1. Can you refer me the post/s it is? I don't remember it.
2. You can't seriously expect every town newbie in a newbie game to not do something scummy. I still don't see how this one was any indicator of alignment.
3. Pretty much proves my point that that wasn't a reason to vote someone at all. People mention stuff that's dumb all the time as town.

[Kmd4390]

It's entirely possible both you and ZazieR are scum and I'm rightly suspicious of you.

How many times have you seen a game where both ICs are scum. It just doesn't happen.

Where did your real suspicions come from?

I'll say it again.

SEE MY CASE ON CNT.

1. Can you refer me the post/s it is? I don't remember it.
2. You can't seriously expect every town newbie in a newbie game to not do something scummy. I still don't see how this one was any indicator of alignment.
3. Pretty much proves my point that that wasn't a reason to vote someone at all. People mention stuff that's dumb all the time as town.

1. 213 and the follow up posts from his and Zazie's defenses on him. Just look for all the posts numbered 1-6.
2. So you want to excuse scummy behavior from newbies? So that's why you are after Zazie and myself. Gotcha.
3. And usually get lynched for it because scum do it more often, amirite?

[alexhans]

It's entirely possible both you and ZazieR are scum and I'm rightly suspicious of you.

How many times have you seen a game where both ICs are scum. It just doesn't happen.

Woah. Wait a minute. WRONG. This is a false assumption that I don't like you making. You're supposed to help newb regardless of your alignment and this is a lie. You can perfectly be both scum Example. It may be improbable but, as charter said, it's possible.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, yes. It's possible.

Not true in this game though.

[Conspicuous_other]

Charter, if you are scum, you biggest threats are ICs, not newbs. You suspect both Zazie and myself. Coincidence?

I'm thinking it's Kmd4390 and

Raivann

Just throwing that out there.

[knox]

Ok, based off of this, I'm thinking it's Kmd4390 and Raivann.

I am also think Raivann as I have voiced my own suspicions earlier also. However if I was to put him in a scum pair out of Kmd and Zazie your other suspicion, I would say Zazie. Though I’m not really sure on either but when I did my read through of the game I had a small suspicion about a potential scum pair between them due to these few posts:

@ Zazie- Can you tell me how to look at just one player's posts in isolation?

Also, I've noticed an inconsistency in your recent posts...

@Yellowbunny
Blue replaced someone who had only one post with content. So I don't have anything on him yet.
Blue is definitly scummy for doing something he sees as scummy, and even voted someone for. And after looking at his posts, he backtracked away from Raivann (happy birthday to you BTW, Raivann ) and he also didn't answer a question. It reminds me of Gimbo .

then in your next post...

Also, ignoring cases/questions is a major scumtell in my opinion. As far as I know, Blue hasn't done this, while CntR has (see post 167 CntR, you might also want to look at my previous post.)

Blue has done this.You even acknowedged that he didn't answer a question in your previous post.

Why Zazie in particular? Then the next day:

....

@Raivann
As for your last two posts, the first time I looked back at Blue's post. But I don't have always the time to do so. The second post you quoted was from what I remembered.

Answers the other parts of his post but not his question. Sending a message maybe to distant themselves more?

here's my suspect list-

prob scum- CntR

neutral- Ash, syndrome, Zazie, Kmd

prob town - alex

I think CntR is scummiest by far out of all players left and he would have gotten my vote yesterday if blue wasn't asking for it with his antitown scummy posts. Ash may have hammered a little quick but I can understand.

I get a townie read from alex. His posts seem genuine and pro-town.

I think Kmd and Zazie both look protown.

@ the IC's - How do I look at 1 player's posts in isolation?

Syndrome's last post does look fishy to me though. Looks like he's bussing/distancing himself from CntR and it reads like it was planned.

Then he asks the IC’s again in general and Kmd automatically answers.

And then there was this in the last few pages.

It's almost like you're trying to draw attention away from him...

but Zazie was going after CntR pretty hard yesterday though

Defending a scum buddy? It seemed an odd post to me especially since that was all he said.

It’s not a very strong but it is still worth consideration I think.