Mini 737 - Hack Poetry Mafia (Game Over)

[Spolium]

Spolium, explain better where the scumslip is at please.

By all means.

If we know sanities are a factor (and you coming up as scum would help that, don being killed would nearly prove it) then we have more reason to believe our Cops.

If we can suspect one of the Cops is insane, we then know sekinj would be that insane Cop, giving us another mafia in Rhinox.

Take note of the emboldened; how could RC know that sekinj is the insane cop? He could only do so

if he knew that Lynx's results were accurate

(or if he knew Sekinj's results were inaccurate).

Notice also what he said when I asked how he would know this:

Well, we could speculate a number of scenarios. What's to say sekinj is even a Cop at all?

Eventually some sort of action must be taken Spolium.

He didn't address the question at all, and continues to press the idea that action must be taken to deal with sanities.

Contrast this with his explanation when pressed:

Wait, you're right, the Cops can't be sane/insane. I was thinking sekinj would have to be insane because Lynx's positive on Jebus, but then the report on Lynx wouldn't fit.

RC now claims he was mistaken and thought that Lynx was telling the truth on the basis of his revealed investigation of Jebus N1. However, this doesn't address the possibility that Lynx is lying, so it seems RC can confirm that Lynx is telling the truth. This makes him either a cop or scum, and the chances of him being a cop are nil at this point.

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Yeah, it could've. Remember when I asked you to be more aggressive?

There's no guaruntee that would've put me in a different position now. You're speculating rather pointlessly.

Why are you trying to play it down, if you think that your process for finding me to be the best lynch is valid?

Because you're painting me as though I'm unfairly out to get you, which isn't the case.

All I've done is point out that your process-of-elimination vote (as with certain other cases on me) are flawed, and explained why. You, on the other hand, are falsely suggesting that I'm demonising you for your case, which is not something I've done at all.

Hmm. So, Spolium, do you think both Cops/Doctors are sane, or is someone lying?

I'm in two minds about it. I do agree that for all the roles to be sane seems unlikely under normal circumstances; HOWEVER, the confusion generated by all the claims could be the means by which the mod has chosen to balance the game. Alternatively, some of the roles could just be lying.

If Lynx is telling the truth, then sekinj is most likely lying - she cannot be insane, because that would make Lynx scum. There is a possibility that she's naive, however.

If Lynx is lying, sekinj could be insane, or lying herself. I consider the latter less likely since if they're both lying scum then they're trying to pull off a hell of a gambit.

I know that Spring is not a town-killing quack, so from my POV she's either a sane doc (which means both cops are more likely to be sane as well) or scum. As I said before, there's a possibility that she's a quack doc who doesn't kill town, but since that seems to be regarded as a less likely option I'll discard it for now.

Here I'll note that lynching Spolium to presumably uncover my sanity is totally dumb and stupid and is absolutely not a valid reason.

In addition to the recent OMGUS, we know that Spolium's play has changed since Budja's death.

Let's not forget these little gems: BLAH BLAH ETC.

Oh, so you

do

have reason to think I'm scum otherwise? Why not point this out earlier, when I initially questioned your case on me, instead of lambasting me for demonising you/wallowing in self-pity/whatever?

spring is a literal walking timebomb if she's a Quack, and I, for one, see it as an increasingly probable role given the way this setup is breaking down

Not that you're trying to scare people into voting me or anything.

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Furthermore, I'm not a mod, but I'm pretty sure its standard practice for all mods in a normal games to give a role PM to give more than just a role name, I.E. instructions for what you're supposed to do, and what results you should expect.

^^^ QFT.

Can ALL the claimed power roles please confirm whether they received a brief description of their role mechanic in their role PM?

[springlullaby]

Then what?
If Lynx dies tonight, what does that make of sekinj?
If sekinj dies tonight, how does that affect lynx alignment?

Like I said in my last post, I don't agree that all night actions are useless in this game. The mafia don't know who/if Lynx/sekinj will visit, and I, for one, want that information in any decision we make tomorrow.

This is very much too naive for my taste. Let me ask you again, and actually same question to anyone waiting for information to be generated by night: what type of information do you expect to be generated that can't be thwarted easily? No you don't need to answer in thread.

Waiting after the scum move is never a good idea, and this especially in the current situation as this is not a 'only one of them can be telling the truth' situation - if one of them get NK'd, it would say nothing of the other's alignment.

And? Killing sekinj won't either. If sekinj is a Cop, and her sanity isn't revealed (which we can expect), we still won't know anything about her Lynx report.
Moreover, I know this isn't an either or situation, which is precisely why I don't think sekinj "has to be mafia" because Lynx sounds more like a Cop.

Are you seriously missing the part where I want sekinj lynched because I think she is scum and this independently of her claim?

I'm willing to put blind faith in your defence of Don for now, but no much longer.

How is it blind faith? It's a reasonable conclusion than any of us could make that a one-member-down scumteam would've taken a pretty big risk to make the claim he did.

Here I'll note that lynching Spolium to presumably uncover my sanity is totally dumb and stupid and is absolutely not a valid reason.

In addition to the recent OMGUS, we know that Spolium's play has changed since Budja's death.

Let's not forget these little gems,

When [Budja's] trying to provoke discussion, it's impossible to determine exactly what sort of discussion is going to arise (particularly so in a game where everyone is second-guessing themselves/others, and scum are waiting to pounce on any careless townie).

My argument was that in my experience Budja has played like this as town

Spolium also took point in that red herring of a "spring defense" argument, which lasted entirely too long.

So I do think Spolium's lynching can be justified outside of any sort of sanity argument, but, if Spolium comes up scum, then it undeniably puts spring's sanity back into question. This wouldn't be as necessary if we didn't have two Doctors/Cops, but now that we do I think this should be our primary concern. spring is a literal walking timebomb if she's a Quack, and I, for one, see it as an increasingly probable role given the way this setup is breaking down.

That increasingly probability, as you might imagine, is only fueling my interest in a Spolium lynch.

1) I don't think his vote on you is particularly scummy atm. And the quote you bring forth are pretty weak, I wonder if you realize that.

2) The issue with my sanity was raised the day Jebus counterclaimed:
she was most likely to be sane as she protected me N1 and no kill happened, this is what made me protect Spolium instead of Jebus in case I was not sane. Why are you catching on this only now?

[Rhinox]

This is a good point here... I overlooked it initially. If Sekinj is the insane cop, how does that make me mafia? Presumably, that would mean lynx would be a sane cop, and lynx is the one with an innocent on me *headscratch*

If sekinj is an insane cop then Lynx could not be the sane cop; he would be scum.

given his claim, I've also ruled out that he is a godfather. If he was a godfather he'd be sitting pretty with an inno result, rather than putting him self out there with a counter. So either I am sane, or he is scum (from my pov)

ok.... I'm still not following though... That could mean that lynx is lying to protect his partner, or it could mean that lynx claimed innocent on an innocent so he would hope I would support his claim.

So, why then would RC make a statement that If sekinj is insane, rhinox is scum? Why not, if sekinj is insane, lynx is scum and possibly Rhinox?

Furthermore, either of them could be naive, and that wouldn't result in the other being scum. IMO, I think naive is more common than insane.

Can ALL the claimed power roles please confirm whether they received a brief description of their role mechanic in their role PM?

I second this request.

[sekinj]

yes. I recieved a brief description. My role PM had my role name, what I needed to do each night, what the results could be, and my win condition.

[Spolium]

My, how interesting.

Spring/Lynx - can either of you confirm this?

[don_johnson]

yes. I recieved a brief description. My role PM had my role name, what I needed to do each night, what the results could be, and my win condition.

i can confirm this.

[Spolium]

yes. I recieved a brief description. My role PM had my role name, what I needed to do each night, what the results could be, and my win condition.

i can confirm this.

Are you sure about that, don?

[don_johnson]

absolutely. on rereading my role pm i can confirm that my pm states all of those things.

[Spolium]

Furthermore, I'm not a mod, but I'm pretty sure its standard practice for all mods in a normal games to give a role PM to give more than just a role name, I.E. instructions for what you're supposed to do,

and what results you should expect.

And it really should have been a slam dunk watch on SL N1.

bolded was not included. i thought if i watched RC i would see whether or not he was home. that was not the case.

[don_johnson]

yeah. sorry, i haven't reread my role pm since the start of the game. i didn't realize that there was one half a sentence in their which states i would see who targeted my night choice. understand that i didn't replace "watcher" with "tracker" i merely thought my power was a bit more than it actually is. when i received my results i pm'd the mod for clarification. i didn't go to my inbox and reread my role pm.

[Spolium]

You didn't think it prudent to check your role PM at any point during your initial confusion about your role?

[don_johnson]

You didn't think it prudent to check your role PM at any point during your initial confusion about your role?

no. i pm'd the mod. he explained it to me.

[Rhinox]

Don, please paraphrase your role PM. You say you have all the same things that sekinj has, so please give me a paraphrase of your role name, what you need to do each night, what the results could be, and your win condition.

FWIW, this knew exchange confirms to me at least that either Don and Sekinj are both town, in which Don really did botch his ability, or Don is scum and Sekinj is town and Don is backpedaling big time now to try to fix his story. Either way, I feel much better about Sekinj. I can't really see Sekinj-scum and Don-town being possible right now, and the only way they can both be scum is if they're different factions.

[Spolium]

no. i pm'd the mod. he explained it to me.

Oh, okay.

Then, when Rhinox suggested that mod PMs would typically include a brief description of the role, you denied that this was the case without even taking a moment to double-check a PM which you hadn't read in some two and a half months (again, despite the earlier confusion)?

[springlullaby]

yes. I recieved a brief description. My role PM had my role name, what I needed to do each night, what the results could be, and my win condition.

i can confirm this.

I differ. My role PM to the exclusion of the poetry is: rolename + possible action + wincon. In three sentences.

[Rhinox]

hmmm... the plot thickens...

Perhaps, spring, that is because your role is a passive ability where you don't receive results, whereas watcher and cop are both role where a result is expected?

Just waiting to hear from lynx now.

[don_johnson]

no. i pm'd the mod. he explained it to me.

Oh, okay.

Then, when Rhinox suggested that mod PMs would typically include a brief description of the role, you denied that this was the case without even taking a moment to double-check a PM which you hadn't read in some two and a half months (again, despite the earlier confusion)?

correct.

Don, please paraphrase your role PM.

i will have to check with the mod before i do this.

[don_johnson]

Furthermore, I'm not a mod, but I'm pretty sure its standard practice for all mods in a normal games to give a role PM to give more than just a role name, I.E. instructions for what you're supposed to do, and what results you should expect. And it really should have been a slam dunk watch on SL N1.

rhinox: if the information both sekinj and i are saying exists, is something that you believe should exist in a pm from the mod, how does our confirming now that it does, make either of us town?

[Rhinox]

rhinox: if the information both sekinj and i are saying exists, is something that you believe should exist in a pm from the mod, how does our confirming now that it does, make either of us town?

Because you and sekinj contradicted, and then you changed your story to allign with her. Furthermore, between sekinj, spring, and lynx, sekinj was most suspected to be scum. I would not have expected scum sekinj to claim what was in her role PM first, assuming that she had no way of knowing you would change your story (i.e. she would have to had assumed you were correct the first time), as well as without knowning whether spring or lynx would be able to corroborate your story or hers. Thus, I now strongly believe sekinj is town.

Oh, and pretty sure paraphrasing is always allowable, so long as you're not quoting. Thats pretty much site standard. Paraphrasing should be pretty easy, since the role was written in poetry, and you can paraphrase in normal writing. So quit stallin'

[don_johnson]

Oh, and pretty sure paraphrasing is always allowable, so long as you're not quoting. Thats pretty much site standard. Paraphrasing should be pretty easy, since the role was written in poetry, and you can paraphrase in normal writing. So quit stallin'

paraprhasing is not easy. there are only so many words involved and i would rather send my version to the mod first to make sure it is acceptable to post in thread.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Wednesday is deadline, Lynx. Is there no chance you'll be able to contribute before then?

I completely completely forgot the deadline's tomorrow. I have a stat test tomorrow and I have to pick my classes for next semester tomorrow as well. However, I'm willing to slack on my studying to get a few posts in here and there tonight.

Now as for role pm. I can verify that Sekinj and Don are telling the truth. I as well have role name, action, result, and win condition. Spring doesn't have results because she doesn't get anything back from her protections. This somewhat lessens my suspicion for Sekinj because of her willingness to paraphrase first. And because people have pointed out the possibility of several cops with different sanities. Which makes me more inclined to accept it as a possibility.

If Sekinj is telling the truth then the only possibilty is that she's naive considering I know my alignnment. Though I can also be naive considering that I've only gotten innocent results.

I'm not for a Spolium deadline lynch. I don't think he's scum.

I'll be here to post throughout the day if I successfully procrastinate...which I will

[sekinj]

If Sekinj is telling the truth then the only possibilty is that she's naive considering I know my alignnment.

What?? how does getting a town aligned result on you make me naive?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

If Sekinj is telling the truth then the only possibilty is that she's naive considering I know my alignnment.

What?? how does getting a town aligned result on you make me naive?

Definitely didn't mean only naive sorry. I meant the only possiblity is naive or just a normal cop. We both have the possibility of being naive if we haven't gotten any guilty results.

[don_johnson]

okay:

there is a poem about me sitting outside someones house.

it says i am town watcher and that i may choose a player each night and will be told who targets my choice.

it also includes my win condition.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Knowing that her pm matches up, Don are you still for a Sekinj lynch?

Sekinj and Rhinox you're the only ones not voting. How do you stand on a Spoilum deadline lynch?

We don't have much time until deadline. We need to work this out fairly soon.