Mini 773- Welcome to Lynchville! Perfection! (Over)

[alexhans]

OH.... But we can... So don't rush into a policy lynch.

[Light-kun]

Just to clarify, I don't see how any of those questions are relevant to my scumminess.

They're not. I had those questions before I voted for you. What's scummy is you ignoring the questions completely and then excusing yourself by saying you're lazy.

Oh, okay...whatever.

Since all start at 33%, anyone over 35% on day 1 is votable. Beyond day 2 (day 3), I vote for people who are close/over 40%

What do you mean they all start at 33%?

...What? Arbitrary number maybe.

zwetchenwasser/empking/dejkha, just ruin the whole system and some adjustments are necessary for them.

I'm a 7 person game with all 3...

I would kill myself.

EBWOP: Just to clarify, I don't see how any of those questions are relevant to my scumminess.

All questions can be useful. That someone asks you a question doesn't necesarilly mean he thinks you're scum.

[/qupte]

But he does think I'm scum...because I "ignored" his questions. I didn't ignore them, but as I said: Oh, okay ...whatever.

On PPP: Policy lynches can be good assuming people, in the time of discussing whether it should be followed through with or not because those who were going out of their way to defend him might be scum. This has happened though, so I wouldn't really suggest policy lynching ppp at the moment.

Secondly: Hm... excuse randomness:

People not voting Kublai Kahn: Do you think he's scummy, yes or no? Why are we letting ppp distract us so much that Kublai's accusations are no longer being pursued?

[ChiefSkye4]

People not voting Kublai Kahn: Do you think he's scummy, yes or no? Why are we letting ppp distract us so much that Kublai's accusations are no longer being pursued?

Mm, he's scummy to an extent. I pursued a KK case previously, and was satisfied enough with his explanations to drop it for the time being. We have to pursue any and all scummy cases, and ppp is/was the issue at hand.

[Kublai Khan]

People not voting Kublai Kahn: Do you think he's scummy, yes or no? Why are we letting ppp distract us so much that Kublai's accusations are no longer being pursued?

Uh, don't you need to actually present a case against me first? All you've said is "Kublai is scummy" a bunch of times.

[Light-kun]

People not voting Kublai Kahn: Do you think he's scummy, yes or no? Why are we letting ppp distract us so much that Kublai's accusations are no longer being pursued?

Mm, he's scummy to an extent. I pursued a KK case previously, and was satisfied enough with his explanations to drop it for the time being. We have to pursue any and all scummy cases, and ppp is/was the issue at hand.

Yes, but now that it has been logically proven that, regardless of alignment, ppp-experienced wouldn't have wanted a no lynch, we should move back to previous discussion.

@Kublai: Nervous? I never said I made a case and I don't need to make one to ask people's opinions.

[Kublai Khan]

@Kublai: Nervous? I never said I made a case and I don't need to make one to ask people's opinions.

No, not nervous... More confused. All I can do is twiddle my thumbs while you solicit opinions.

I guess I'll use the opportunity to re-read the game.

[LesterGroans]

I'm happy leaving my vote where it is for now, but:

Can we move off the novice discussion and move more on the KK versus Pie discussion?

I agree that moving off of bickering over experience is a good idea, but narrowing it down to two choices that early? It just seemed like you were trying to get people on either side instead of exploring more options.

On PPP: Policy lynches can be good assuming people, in the time of discussing whether it should be followed through with or not because those who were going out of their way to defend him might be scum. This has happened though, so

I wouldn't really suggest policy lynching ppp at the moment

.

Secondly: Hm... excuse randomness:

People not voting Kublai Kahn: Do you think he's scummy, yes or no?

Why are we letting ppp distract us so much that Kublai's accusations are no longer being pursued?

Bolding is mine. The first part sounds too convenient... buttering up the idea that a policy lynch is reasonable, maybe in case you need to push one later? Especially the last bit where you seem to say that we shouldn't now, but we should put it on the back-burner. Weird.

The second bolded part: no, I don't really. Aggressive maybe, but no more so than you. This whole post feels like you really want a KK lynch, but if it falls apart you'll settle for a ppp one instead.

-your percentage explanation seems weird and a bit of a cop-out
-your defensiveness at being called scum was also odd

I also want a replacement for Pie, as earlier actions were questionable and I want to see how the replacement plays.

[Cream147]

Sorry guys, I didn't post when I said I would. Life's been busy. I've been considering whether I can commit to this game, but I think I can. I just need to catch up. I don't want people to feel I'm trying to slip under the radar so I will 100% certainly no doubts about it make a serious post tomorrow. If I don't, consider me mafia. I feel like I'm letting people down at the moment.

[RedCoyote]

The rest of you three (RedCoyote, LesterGroans, ppp973) are either not paying attention (anti-town) or letting it slide purposely (anti-town, suggesting scum team).

The questions don't seem particularly harsh, nor does Light-kun's ignorance of them seem particularly scummy. I'm not interested in Light-kun's "percentage" system, because I don't see how it effectively works any different than saying so-and-so is more/less scummy than so-and-so. I do a scale with town on one side and mafia on the other, and I'm sure you do something similar as well to track players.

---

Rorschach* (Correction to my misspelling) is a character from Watchmen, so he isn't a player. However, Red, you remind me of him.

Oh! The one with the mask. I want to check the movie out but I'm scared if I don't read the graphic novel first I'll get lost, hehe.

---

ppp, what does post 137 mean?

---

I think he's annoying, yes, but that's no reason to lynch him. In my experience, the annoying players are very often town, who are trying to contribute but don't know how.

Hah, you maybe right. ppp actually seems somewhat harmless compared to others I've run across.

In any case, am I supportive of lynching ppp?

I see the danger of it, but I think it's irresponsible to lynch [ppp], especially if [KK agrees] with me that he is most likely town.

Hm, interesting comment, cater. I'm noticing you have a knack for assuming things about players.

---

...What? Arbitrary number maybe.

Since the discussion is going... why not 50%?

People not voting Kublai Kahn: Do you think he's scummy, yes or no? Why are we letting ppp distract us so much that Kublai's accusations are no longer being pursued?

1) Yes
2) PiP is gone, lol. Seriously though, I only had some initial suspicions based on the way he discussed the RVS. I'm still trying to get everyone in the game talking.

---

I agree that moving off of bickering over experience is a good idea, but narrowing it down to two choices that early? It just seemed like you were trying to get people on either side instead of exploring more options.

Not only that, but he's been quick to run out talking about ppp, and his perecentage system...

Why are we letting ppp distract us so much that Kublai's accusations are no longer being pursued?

we should move back to previous discussion.

I agree with Lester, Light-kun is definitely focused on KK here. So much in fact, he may be putting his foot in his mouth with all these times he's posted.

[cateraction]

The questions don't seem particularly harsh, nor does Light-kun's ignorance of them seem particularly scummy. I'm not interested in Light-kun's "percentage" system, because I don't see how it effectively works any different than saying so-and-so is more/less scummy than so-and-so. I do a scale with town on one side and mafia on the other, and I'm sure you do something similar as well to track players.

Since the discussion is going... why not 50%?

How do these two go together? Are you interested in his system or not?

In any case, am I supportive of lynching ppp?

I don't really understand this. Are you asking me?

Hm, interesting comment, cater. I'm noticing you have a knack for assuming things about players.

I don't really understood how I assumed anything. I said lynching ppp was irresponsible, especially if KK though he was innocent. It's still irresponsible if he was unsure.

[RedCoyote]

1) I wasn't interested until he said 33%, which strikes me as a strange number to start with.

2) Yes, I am asking you. I've noticed you may have assumed the answer already.

3) You assumed that KK thought that ppp was town, and I was noting how a pattern maybe forming.

[alexhans]

Yes, but now that it has been logically proven that, regardless of alignment, ppp-experienced wouldn't have wanted a no lynch, we should move back to previous discussion.

While I agree that ppp's no lynch is not necesarilly scummy I don't like your treating the game as it would have to run over only one topic. We can (and should) have a lot of things going on so we can avoid tunnel visioning and scum pushing for bandwaggons.

Also, lester has a point regarding light-kun when he says that he is pushing KK but leaving the door open for an eventual ppp vote based on policy.

How do these two go together? Are you interested in his system or not?

Asking questions is always good for the town. I also want to know why is 33 instead of 50 %.

Idon't really understood how I assumed anything. I said lynching ppp was irresponsible, especially if KK though he was innocent. It's still irresponsible if he was unsure.

What has KK to do with this? the only ones who know alignment of the others are scum... Do you think KK is scum?

If I don't, consider me mafia

This kind of statements are dangerous... If you have a problem and can't access internet you'll have a hard time for a unnecesary joke.

Hah, you maybe right. ppp actually seems somewhat harmless compared to others I've run across.

Does this mean you think he is town or that you think he won't be anti-town for the sake of it like, say Zwets...

Not only that, but he's been quick to run out talking about ppp, and his perecentage system... `

Now I'll have to second cater.... How's this consistent with your lack of interest for the percentage system?

[cateraction]

If I don't, consider me mafia. I feel like I'm letting people down at the moment.

I don't like this at all. It sets up a false dichotomy and is very anti-town, although I'm not sure if it is scummy or not. Pretty stupid joke either way, and perhaps more sinister.

1) I wasn't interested until he said 33%, which strikes me as a strange number to start with.

If you were interested, then why did you say this:

I'm not interested in Light-kun's "percentage" system, because I don't see how it effectively works any different than saying so-and-so is more/less scummy than so-and-so. I do a scale with town on one side and mafia on the other, and I'm sure you do something similar as well to track players.

I agree with your first inclination that it’s silly to debate the way that light kun represents his scumminess readings as long as he makes sure to clarify them in the future. It’s a silly argument masquerading as a scumhunt and an easy discussion for scum to continue stirring.

Anyone want to discuss the idea of a ppp policy lynch (a p-p-p-policy lynch if you will, lol)?
I'm being serious

I’m sorry if I incorrectly assumed that you were for it. I thought that’s what this post meant. Are you for it? If so, why? Especially in light of the points I’ve brought against it. If not, why would you bother discussing it?

Asking questions is always good for the town. I also want to know why is 33 instead of 50 %.

I agree, in theory, that questions are good for the town, but I don’t understand what kind of response to this question you would find scummy or not. It seems so arbitrary that I’m a bit aggravated that there is so much effort put into raking over his methods of representation. If I ask what your favorite flavor of ice cream is, is that question really benefiting the town?

What has KK to do with this? the only ones who know alignment of the others are scum... Do you think KK is scum?

Alright, as I see it, a policy lynch is one that is based solely on the fact that a player makes the game difficult or is annoying, without any attention paid to the question of their affiliation (town, scum, ect). If someone voted for ppp because they leaned toward him being scum, that would not be a policy lynch. If someone leaned toward someone being town but was still willing to lynch them, that would be scummy in my mind. However, I do not see the utility in policy lynching someone as I have said before. I’m just curious as what scenario KK sees as justification of possibly lynching a townie without considering his role.

@Lester: The only accusations brought against KK were by Pie and I think KK dealt with them very acceptably. Do you agree? Expound on why you think he’s scummy and any scummy behavior you see since if not.

[Light-kun]

I'm happy leaving my vote where it is for now, but:

Can we move off the novice discussion and move more on the KK versus Pie discussion?

I agree that moving off of bickering over experience is a good idea, but narrowing it down to two choices that early? It just seemed like you were trying to get people on either side instead of exploring more options.

Granted, but if the entire experience thing smells of giant deflection tactic, I'm all for revisiting the previous discussion until we can have an idea on both, and when we get in the mix of a 1v1 discussion, someone "on the sidelines" tends to do something scummy. My point is that this move is at least significantly better than the policy lynch discussion.

On PPP: Policy lynches can be good assuming people, in the time of discussing whether it should be followed through with or not because those who were going out of their way to defend him might be scum. This has happened though, so

I wouldn't really suggest policy lynching ppp at the moment

.

Secondly: Hm... excuse randomness:

People not voting Kublai Kahn: Do you think he's scummy, yes or no?

Why are we letting ppp distract us so much that Kublai's accusations are no longer being pursued?

Bolding is mine. The first part sounds too convenient... buttering up the idea that a policy lynch is reasonable, maybe in case you need to push one later? Especially the last bit where you seem to say that we shouldn't now, but we should put it on the back-burner. Weird.

Sometimes, a policy lynch is the best choice or necessary. I would say Empking policy lynches are probably necessary, as an example. Ppp, however, is stupid, but trying very hard to play well. I think he shouldn't be policy lynched.

Also: Not put it on the back burner, throw it out completely. Still, I can understand where you would get that idea.

The second bolded part: no, I don't really. Aggressive maybe, but no more so than you. This whole post feels like you really want a KK lynch, but if it falls apart you'll settle for a ppp one instead.

-your percentage explanation seems weird and a bit of a cop-out
-your defensiveness at being called scum was also odd

I also want a replacement for Pie, as earlier actions were questionable and I want to see how the replacement plays.

-There not, but I will admit that when it comes to my method of devising percentages, I either tell the truth and be as vague as a "cop-out" or I lie. Neither bother me much, the town seems to like the truth slightly more.
-Defensiveness? Okay..., I'm sure anyone would be mildly defensive, but meh.

Second bold: Hm... okay then. I'll muse on that idea. And I want a KK lynch cause him or Pie is mafia in my mind set. (Both would be a slight possibility also.)
*********************IRRELEVANCY ALERT!!!*****************
@Red: Yeah, reading the graphic novel is great, but there are a ton of allusions. Being familiar with a lot of famous writers and mythology is a huge plus. (Don't be affraid to look up the quotes too, since they are highly well selected and often come from short poems or things that are easy to research.) After seeing both, the movie only loses a few scenes, one major theme, and a short side note that is important to the novel (metafiction), but I don't count that as a minus since the June release will have the metafiction in the movie as it should be.

Arbitrary numbers: well, I decided that each individual person, if scum, would have a 1/3 chance of being 1/4 scum. This assumes sk, 3 mafia. Thus, 4/12=1/3=33.3333333333333333333333333333333333333333%
Rounded down: 33% start. Semi arbitrary. Also, if you're at 50% on my scale, you are either the worst player ever or mafia. (No one has ever gotten that high. 47%, yes. 50%? No.)
******************IRRELEVANCY ALERT OVER!!!***************

As for the KK thing: True, perhaps. But is it ever my job to look town? Or is to hunt scum, which is inherently townie? I just think we shouldn't waste time with a stupid policy lynch discussion.

Cateraction: Where do you think KK adress Pie's accusations? IF this is true, which I could have overlooked or not just missed in one of his posts, then I should certainly switch gears to Pie, who has been replaced, thus, I should question the brick wall to receive about the same amount of information.

Nah, I think the replacement should be able to make some sense of his play.

[cateraction]

ateraction: Where do you think KK adress Pie's accusations? IF this is true, which I could have overlooked or not just missed in one of his posts, then I should certainly switch gears to Pie, who has been replaced, thus, I should question the brick wall to receive about the same amount of information.

Nah, I think the replacement should be able to make some sense of his play.

Post 81.

[RedCoyote]

Does this mean you think he is town or that you think he won't be anti-town for the sake of it like, say Zwets...

No, I mean that I've seen worse examples of supposedly "anti-town town" players.

How's this consistent with your lack of interest for the percentage system?

Well, I made certain assumputions about it before. Light-kun is now saying that he picks "arbitrary numbers" for everyone which struck me as a little odd. Moreover, he's been hesistant to talk about it, but he was the one who brought it up, which I think may mean something.

---

If you were interested, then why did you say this

Because his answer struck me as odd, I was expecting him to say 50%, and I was curious why he didn't (and no one had brought that up yet).

I’m sorry if I incorrectly assumed that you were for it. I thought that’s what this post meant. Are you for it? If so, why? Especially in light of the points I’ve brought against it. If not, why would you bother discussing it?

Well, I don't come from the school of thought that says that a townie can't bring up discussion topics without supporting them, but no, I don't think I particularly support a ppp lynch. I wanted to discuss it because I wanted to gauge ppp's reaction to it.

I think it may also have told me more about Light-kun, but we'll see where that goes.

[LesterGroans]

@Lester: The only accusations brought against KK were by Pie and I think KK dealt with them very acceptably. Do you agree? Expound on why you think he’s scummy and any scummy behavior you see since if not.

Actually, I said I don't think he's as scummy as some are portraying him.

[BrianMcQueso]

Sorry about the inactivity! Here's some catchup:

I'm feeling optimistic about ChiefSkye. She's calling people out on their crap, and I support that.

While Light-kun's "percentage" system is confusing, arbitrary, and needlessly complicated, I can't make up my mind if that makes him more pro-town or anti-town.

Cateraction's active defense of ppp has me concerned. While I'm against policy lynches, the way I would bring that up is vastly different. Compare the way ChiefSkye argued against a ppp lynch to Cat's:

Personally, can't stand policy lynches. It's a perfect hiding place for scum. But, ppp (for unpolicy reasons) is not an entirely bad lynch.

Honestly, I really don't think that ppp is scummy. I think he's annoying, yes, but that's no reason to lynch him. In my experience, the annoying players are very often town, who are trying to contribute but don't know how. Too often, scum can push for the lynch of these players by going for a policy lynch or painting their eagerness as scumminess.

I think Cat's laying the "ppp's probably innocent" on a little thick, considering you really can't know if he's innocent or not, regardless of ppp's behavior.

And as much as it pains me to say it, Kublai Khan is feeling better to me with time. Though I still think your early game play was suspect, your response to a lot of the accusations against you has been reasonable. Posts 147, 149, 153 and 155 are good posts.

unvote

[cateraction]

Sorry Lester, I meant that question for Light Kun. Not sure why I put your name there. I'm still waiting for him to evaluate KK.

[Light-kun]

Hm, it appears I miscued. At post 84, after rereading 81, I should have proceeded to attack Pie, who was very defensive when I doubly attacked Pie and KK. Also, KK shows superior logic and makes sense.

@167: Needlessly complicated systems for determining scumminess are neither pro or anti town. They are merely systems one may choose to use to determine whether one is more or less likely to be scum. I call it "Scuminomics."

[LesterGroans]

Hm, it appears I miscued. At post 84, after rereading 81, I should have proceeded to attack Pie, who was very defensive when I doubly attacked Pie and KK. Also, KK shows superior logic and makes sense.

Okay, I find this a really suspicious backtrack ... if I'm making a case -- especially one as vehement as yours against KK -- I usually make sure I'm talking about the right person.

Unvote

Vote: Light-kun

[ChiefSkye4]

@167: Needlessly complicated systems for determining scumminess are neither pro or anti town. They are merely systems one may choose to use to determine whether one is more or less likely to be scum. I call it "Scuminomics."

Just to clarify, who's system are you calling needlessly complicated?

[alexhans]

I agree, in theory, that questions are good for the town, but I don’t understand what kind of response to this question you would find scummy or not

It's not about looking for scum tells. It's about understanding his thinking.

If I ask what your favorite flavor of ice cream is, is that question really benefiting the town?

Lemon There's a difference cater... That question is not game-related but asking a player that states he find players so much % scummy triggers interest because using numbers like that suggest a precision method.

Arbitrary numbers: well, I decided that each individual person, if scum, would have a 1/3 chance of being 1/4 scum. This assumes sk, 3 mafia. Thus, 4/12=1/3=33.3333333333333333333333333333333333333333%
Rounded down: 33% start. Semi arbitrary. Also, if you're at 50% on my scale, you are either the worst player ever or mafia. (No one has ever gotten that high. 47%, yes. 50%? No.)

THIS IS NOT IRRELEVANT light-kun... thanks for explaining. Im gonna bother you with one more question. Can you point me other games you've played so I can look (If I have time) at how you apply this percentage system?
SIDE NOTE: I'm not gonna blame you for this but if you were town you should think that there's 4/11 chances of being scum for every person (you don't count yourself because you know it). That makes it 36.33 %. Along the same line, If I'm at lylo with 2 scums and 3 town (including me) I will think I have 50 % of hitting scum, not 40%.

167: mmm... I usually get townie vibes when I see that kind of inexperience...

Just to clarify, who's system are you calling needlessly complicated?

Er... His talking about his own system

[Light-kun]

Hm, it appears I miscued. At post 84, after rereading 81, I should have proceeded to attack Pie, who was very defensive when I doubly attacked Pie and KK. Also, KK shows superior logic and makes sense.

Okay, I find this a really suspicious backtrack ... if I'm making a case -- especially one as vehement as yours against KK -- I usually make sure I'm talking about the right person.

Unvote

Vote: Light-kun

I was talking about the right person. I failed to realize the points were already addressed. Also, are you making a case?

Skye: Someone called my system needlessly complicated, so through logical progression, I'm talking about mine. I realize in isolation that would lack clarity though.

@Alex: Um, sure. Just go to my wiki page. All my games are documented there. (With links and everything.) As I said, I either lie about how its done exactly or I'm very vague, but I do, occaisionally, make a post of nothing but percents. (Usually with myself as 100%, obv Kira)

[alexhans]

mmm... your wiki is not in the right place Light Kun... you should press the wiki button and be able to access it... Maybe you did it in your user page. If you want I'll paste it for you in the right place.