Mini 747 Over.

[ZazieR]

The role PM said townie. So to me, it doesn't make sense that any townie would claim vanilla.

[geraintm]

I've already asked, and I can doc myself. I suppose if scum have a roleblocker, then they could still kill me.

Charter, why don't you want to claim who you had a cop investigation on?

Well, to do it right now I find dumb. Scum are going to try and get a townie lynched. If they try and get the townie I looked at lynched, I will definately step in and stop it. I think analyzing that will prove more useful than ensuring it never happens.

first part seems an error on your behalf.
must say, your role sounds really odd, a self protecting doc?

I still think Panzer is scum. His doubting my claim looks like a way of throwing general suspicion on whoever he can. I don't know how else he can explain that other kill unless I did it.

i was of the opinion he was scum most of yesterday...but i don't like him being pushed today for using the word townie or vanilla. that seems really pushing it

I don't believe because I also thought you'd have vigged me straight off. And JOAT doesn't seem right here. Also a one-shot vig, reg Vig, or an SK could fit, but it doesn't make any sense to pull a gambit as a Jack of all trades when you can't all trades. Not with 7 players left. At this point I am much more suspicious of Zazier.

zazie? really? where does that come from.
panzer, i don't think i have ever seen a player throw more mud in a game than you have here.

I have no idea about all this role PM stuff, but if the rest of you agree that vanilla makes no sense for a claim, I'm definately fine with lynching Panzer because I thought he was scum before today.

charter, that is just lazy on the vanilla thing, you should be able to work out why people find that odd and want to lynch him for that.

Zazie - general question - why did you go AWOL yesterday?

[ZazieR]

Zazie - general question - why did you go AWOL yesterday?

Well, first of all 03-29 is since this year an important day to me. Due to it, I have to find a way to spend my time to this extra thing, school and mafia. Which was a bit hard at the start.
Second was school. I was lately very busy as this is my final year (I'm done in less than two months)
And third, I'm lazy. I update first the games I'm up to date with. And due to that, some games went a bit to the bottom of my list. This was one of them.

I guess that's it. But as it's been a time ago, it could be that I forgot something.
I'm back though

[Hoopla]

I think I'd like the wise Shanba to chime in with his thoughts, but I'm pretty confident Panzer is scum - geraintm for a likely buddy. Who's down for a Panzer lynch today?

[geraintm]

Zazie - general question - why did you go AWOL yesterday?

Well, first of all 03-29 is since this year an important day to me. Due to it, I have to find a way to spend my time to this extra thing, school and mafia. Which was a bit hard at the start.
Second was school. I was lately very busy as this is my final year (I'm done in less than two months)
And third, I'm lazy. I update first the games I'm up to date with. And due to that, some games went a bit to the bottom of my list. This was one of them.

I guess that's it. But as it's been a time ago, it could be that I forgot something.
I'm back though

ok, was quiet noticeable that you were posting in other games and not here

I think I'd like the wise Shanba to chime in with his thoughts, but I'm pretty confident Panzer is scum - geraintm for a likely buddy. Who's down for a Panzer lynch today?

why me please?

[ZazieR]

You're not the only one who noticed that Ger...
But like I said, I'm back.

@Hoopla
I'd like to see more discussion first as Panzer is right about one thing, it's probably Lylo. And he could explain his claim a bit more.


Also, a general question: Does anybody know if it'normal for a JoaT being able to protect himself?

[Hoopla]

@Hoopla
I'd like to see more discussion first as Panzer is right about one thing, it's probably Lylo. And he could explain his claim a bit more.


Also, a general question: Does anybody know if it'normal for a JoaT being able to protect himself?

That's valid, I can wait - as far as your Joat question goes, I think it's about as normal as a doctor self-protecting. Actually it may be more likely considering it's only one protection.

[PJ.]

I think I'd like the wise Shanba to chime in with his thoughts, but I'm pretty confident Panzer is scum - geraintm for a likely buddy. Who's down for a Panzer lynch today?

Hoopla-Zazie scum team.

They are both very very eager for a lynch when it is most likely LYLO.

That's a huge reason I'm suspicious of Zazier. Semantics is not something you should use to try to push a lynch while we are in lylo.

Also Hoopla, please give me reasons as to why I'm scum.

[ZazieR]

@Hoopla
I'd like to see more discussion first as Panzer is right about one thing, it's probably Lylo. And he could explain his claim a bit more.

Indeed, I'm very eager for a lynch

[charter]

first part seems an error on your behalf.
must say, your role sounds really odd, a self protecting doc?

No. I specifically asked if I could doc myself night one and was told yes.

charter, that is just lazy on the vanilla thing, you should be able to work out why people find that odd and want to lynch him for that.

Yes, I understand there is some inconsistancy, but I didn't get a vanilla townie pm so I don't know how big or small it is.

Also, a general question: Does anybody know if it'normal for a JoaT being able to protect himself?

It's up to the mod. I know Natirasha always lets doctors protect themselves. Apparantly Kevin is the same way.

[Shadow Knight]

I don't like the idea of using semantics for a wagon on panzer. Especially when I nearly said vanilla myself as I've been thinking of myself as vanilla townie all game. Between that and the exchange Cephrir and Zazie yesterday, and her general behavior all game, I'm more inclined to think that Zazie is the right lynch for today. I was on the fence between Panzer and Zazie, but I have to go with my gut on this and I'll probably vote Zazie.

[charter]

Looks like Shadow Knight volunteed to be the third scum.

[ZazieR]

@Charter
Did I miss your second scum read? I only noticed Panzer and Shadow


@Shadow
Please elaborate

[Hoopla]

I think I'd like the wise Shanba to chime in with his thoughts, but I'm pretty confident Panzer is scum - geraintm for a likely buddy. Who's down for a Panzer lynch today?

Hoopla-Zazie scum team.

They are both very very eager for a lynch when it is most likely LYLO.

That's a huge reason I'm suspicious of Zazier. Semantics is not something you should use to try to push a lynch while we are in lylo.

Also Hoopla, please give me reasons as to why I'm scum.

At the moment it's by process of elimination. I believe charter's claim due to nobody else claiming the kill - and I believe Zazie is town based on this;

FoS Panzer

for his claim

I'll look at Charter, because I'm not a huge fan of deja vu's.

FoS Panzer

for his claim

I'll look at Charter, because I'm not a huge fan of deja vu's.

I kind of agree, considering that vanilla or vanila wasn't mentioned in the PM at all - well mine at least.

Exactly my point. It's not mentioned at all. The role PM says townie.

As I know exactly what the town PM says, it would be a ridiculously stupid gambit for scum to essentially guess what the townie PM says. They get it slightly wrong, they're going to expose themself. So that leads me to believe there is far more town motivation in both of these posts by Zazie.

Connect that with Panzer's vanilla claim makes him stand out a lot to me. It's interesting watching Shadow's half-assed attempts to deviate the attention elsewhere though.

[charter]

@Charter
Did I miss your second scum read? I only noticed Panzer and Shadow


@Shadow
Please elaborate

Whoops, it's Geriantm.

[Shadow Knight]

@Hoopla- I didn't think there was really any debate about charter's claim. I currently consider him the most confirmed of all of us.

@Panzer- I don't think Hoopla and Zazie are scum together, although I do buy a geraintm and zazie team.

@charter- I'm sorry you think that. I can't speak for Panzer (and certainly not geraintm), but you're wrong on my count.

[PJ.]

@Hoopla
I'd like to see more discussion first as Panzer is right about one thing, it's probably Lylo. And he could explain his claim a bit more.

Indeed, I'm very eager for a lynch

Missed this..Sorry. You are correct.

Still have a huge problem with the bit on vanilla not being in the role pm.

[Shadow Knight]

Wait, are you saying it *is* in yours?

[Hoopla]

@Hoopla- I didn't think there was really any debate about charter's claim. I currently consider him the most confirmed of all of us.

Shadow, I wasn't talking about your thoughts on charter's claim, I was more talking about you deflecting attention from Panzer, and pretending to be suspicious of him. The below post offers a half defense on Panzer, then strangely you're suspicious of him too. To me, it looks like you're in two minds whether to bus your buddy now and try and get some town cred, or fight to keep him alive. It looks like a post to keep your options open - and almost something you could reference the next day for both sides.

I don't like the idea of using semantics for a wagon on panzer. Especially when I nearly said vanilla myself as I've been thinking of myself as vanilla townie all game. Between that and the exchange Cephrir and Zazie yesterday, and her general behavior all game, I'm more inclined to think that Zazie is the right lynch for today. I was on the fence between Panzer and Zazie, but I have to go with my gut on this and I'll probably vote Zazie.

Here's another example of playing down the vanilla slip;

EBWODP- Oh. Well yeah, I suppose that isn't good, but I had to actually check my PM again before claiming otherwise I might have written vanilla too.

It's funny how you're suspicious enough to have him in your top 2, but you're still trying to find excuses for him.

Shadow: what do you think about my previous post talking about a town Zazie. Does that seem logical to you?

[PJ.]

Wow. No..I'm not.

[PJ.]

@Hoopla- I didn't think there was really any debate about charter's claim. I currently consider him the most confirmed of all of us.

Shadow, I wasn't talking about your thoughts on charter's claim, I was more talking about you deflecting attention from Panzer, and pretending to be suspicious of him. The below post offers a half defense on Panzer, then strangely you're suspicious of him too. To me, it looks like you're in two minds whether to bus your buddy now and try and get some town cred, or fight to keep him alive. It looks like a post to keep your options open - and almost something you could reference the next day for both sides.

I don't like the idea of using semantics for a wagon on panzer. Especially when I nearly said vanilla myself as I've been thinking of myself as vanilla townie all game. Between that and the exchange Cephrir and Zazie yesterday, and her general behavior all game, I'm more inclined to think that Zazie is the right lynch for today. I was on the fence between Panzer and Zazie, but I have to go with my gut on this and I'll probably vote Zazie.

Here's another example of playing down the vanilla slip;

EBWODP- Oh. Well yeah, I suppose that isn't good, but I had to actually check my PM again before claiming otherwise I might have written vanilla too.

It's funny how you're suspicious enough to have him in your top 2, but you're still trying to find excuses for him.

Shadow: what do you think about my previous post talking about a town Zazie. Does that seem logical to you?

Vanilla was not a slip. The vanilla bit is unimportant. I spelled vanilla wrong too. Would you like to persecute me for that as well? It's not like I've looked at my role PM lately. I'm a vanilla townie aka plain old lynch scum townie.

Vote:Hoopla

for really trying to capitalize on this "vanilla" thing

[Hoopla]

Vanilla was not a slip. The vanilla bit is unimportant. I spelled vanilla wrong too. Would you like to persecute me for that as well? It's not like I've looked at my role PM lately. I'm a vanilla townie aka plain old lynch scum townie.

Vote:Hoopla

for really trying to capitalize on this "vanilla" thing

The thing is though, you seem like an experienced enough player - I'm sure you've been in massclaim before. And I'm sure you've probably been in scenarios where a little flavor, or order of claiming can help clear/indicate alignment. It seems awfully wreckless for a town player to not check his role before claiming.

I think what it does though, is make Zazie look quite town. When I have myself, and charter as town it really does leave a small scum-pool. Yourself and Shadow are looking very very likely to me.

[Shanba]

TBH, I think the idea that Panzer slipped is ridiculous. I didn't even remember what my role PM said exactly, I just remember the role - a role which has an awful lot of absolutely interchangeable names.

However, I am struggling to find a situation in which Panzer is

not

scum. I don't think zazier, hoopla or charter are scum. And Panzer has been... erratic.

Hey guys, check this out.
More from me later.

I can show (if I recall) about 4 instances of me doing that.

How is that in any way relevant?

You're policy voting someone for doing something you do, even as town.

I reread, and once again

vote Panzer

. You're doing the same thing as in 727 where you vote for everyone as they come under suspicion.

This is pretty much true. Or at least, I haven't checked the context, but I do know that Panzer has suspected p. much every one and I do know that the people he has focused on have been the ones who were under scrutiny - notably (and in this order) Nicolio, Khelvaster and cephrir. The other two he has attacked were Hoopla and geraintm - the geraintm attack which looked weird to me yesterday and Hoopla who is probably (no offence meant) the weakest player left alive. So Panzer I reckon is scum.

I was getting fairly good vibes from Shadow Knight yesterday. I think a lot of the attacks against him have been fairly forced and contrived - especially the day 1 stuff. Possibly my read is influenced by confirmation bias about the cephrir wagon. I reckon there's a good chance he's town, though, nevertheless.

It's possible scum had the townie Role Pm. However, Zazie's and Hoopla's referencing of it give me a good feeling - especially Hoopla's. I don't think Hoopla is scum.

I admit I've been ignoring geraintm a bit this game, so I'm taking a look at him in isolation.

seriously panzer, what are you up to? placing a 4th vote now, i have no idea what you are trying to acomplish. stop it

no, i wasn't having a problem with his vote, just his general jokeiness, it is stopping the game getting going, he is a distraction, the others above who are just fooling around, just isn't helping.

This looks like a backtrack to me. He specifically references the vote and then in his next post says that it wasn't the vote he was objecting to - in that case, why did he mention the vote at all? It's possible that after he wrote that post he realised he still had his vote on ZEEnon and, not wanting to be accused of hypocrisy (because he didn't unvote), tried to change the emphasis of his attack.

Also, although geraintm was fairly active day 1, apart from this, and him attacking Hoopla, he is not forthcoming with any other opinion about the game. This is a pretty typical post - he questions an attack on himself (not defending himself, just questioning the attack)

gerain is looking scummy.

Looked really bad when jumping on Hoopla, iirc. I know it was around that spot, I can go back and look later, if need be.

oh, well, did you disagree with what i said to him? i never actally voted though i dont think.

I quoted that one in particular because the latter sentence looks more like an attempt at justification than anything else - as if he is doesn't want to be associated with his attack on Hoopla now it is drawing a little heat. Especially given his cautious stance on voting, dismissing the case because he didn't vote seems bizarre - what are we supposed to judge him on if not his votes (which are massively infrequent) or his opinions?

The only other times he looks at other players rather than himself is when they are under scrutiny, at which point he generally came back with a "nay!" verdict. Not sure that's scummy - might be indicative of his cautious playstyle coming through as scum, not wanting to commit to cases that might get him in trouble.

Day 2 he forgets entirely about Hoopla - odd given he was his major target day 1 - and starts to go after Panzer and Cephrir for commenting on the nightkill. I hate this post:

Why was that a straonge kill? odd tone to this post, almost like scum congratulating himself (yeah, that is reaching)

post 339 - the what now?

"(yeah that is reaching)" is just ugh. Undermining his own opinions again.

I think panzerjager/geraintm is very very likely. Third is a bit trickier. geraintm is currently top of my suspect list.

[Shadow Knight]

@ Hoopla- It kinda bothers me actually. It feels like you're basing zazie's alignment on panzer's, which is bad because one being scum doesn't mean the other is town or vice versa. I really didn't like the interaction between her and Cephrir yesterday, which you were around for (and called her scum on IIRC). So going from that to calling her town kind struck a bad chord with me.

In regards to panzer, I guess you can call it defending him, but I have a hard time voting for someone based on something I almost did. To me, the terms vanilla, townie, villager, etc are all synonymous and interchangeable. To wait till we were all done claiming and *then* attack panzer based on the wording of his claim seems wrong. If it was that important, why didn't anyone ask for clarification before the next person claimed? A simple "Panzer, does you PM actually say vanilla or something else?" and if he got the answer wrong, I'd have been the first one to vote him.

The problem I have right now is that we're at lylo and the only one of you I think is town is charter with Shanba coming in second. That makes the people I'd be willing to lynch Zazie, Geraintm, and Panzer/Hoopla (in that order).

[geraintm]

try to respond to shanba
shanba - my unhappiness with panzer day one with his playstayle was a holdover from a recent game i was in with him where he self-hammered when he was a townie.
i was frankyl fed up of him
i voted for him all yesterday, and today he hsan't been any better, if anything worse.

vote panzer

and the rest of you rpost, i think it is mostly my play style. i admit i am normally a bad scum finder, esp day one. that might be why you think i don't press the issues or not
when i do think i have found someone, i tend to stick with them for a while and i think my normal play style is to dislike others when they make attacks on others i dislike. i try and get them to explain, best way i can think of stopping townies getting needlessly lynched.

i still want hoopla to explain why he thinks i am scum? id di ask before, i dont think he said why, but his suspicion seems to be spreading unchecked