Mini 737 - Hack Poetry Mafia (Game Over)

[Ice9]

Unvote

Rhinox's circle plan should be followed.

Spring -> sek -> don -> Spring

[Ice9]

Hey the preview button is my friend - processing the post from Lynx

[sekinj]

oh no! I really am the cop though! and I invesitaged Lynx!!

[Ice9]

There are way too many claims. Lynx's results don't rule out the possibility that he's naive. I mention this because Rhinox is one of my top two suspects outside of the claimed group, based almost entirely on likelihood of being Budja's scumbuddy.

There are also a lot of paired roles going on here - dead doc and claimed doc, two claimed cops. Could be a pattern, could just be coincidental fake claim(s).

I am virtually certain that Lynx is town - either sek is truthfully a cop, in which case there's an innocent investigation on him, or sek is lying, in which case Lynx is a real cop counterclaiming.

So Spring should certainly be protecting Lynx. Yes it removes the random chance WIFOM from the scum kill, but it also means that the most confirmed town power role lives regardless, unless scum Spring wants to sacrifice herself to kill him.

don's watch should be on Spring. Lynx's investigation is up to him, but it should probably be hitting sek, since with Spring's protect he's guaranteed to live to tomorrow to possibly confirm her. sek's investigation should still be someone in the pool of unclaimed players.

And I think that covers all of the bases.

With an innocent investigation result on Rhinox, my unclaimed scumlist drops to one -

Vote: Spolium

[Ice9]

Also,

Mod: Can we get a round of prods, and a deadline extension to find replacements if necessary?

[sekinj]

Is anyone vanilla??

maybe the mod put in tons of roles so we would all counter claim and kill each other off. maybe that is how the town is balanced with the scum.

I definitely am ready for a mass claim.

[Ice9]

Is anyone vanilla??

maybe the mod put in tons of roles so we would all counter claim and kill each other off. maybe that is how the town is balanced with the scum.

I definitely am ready for a mass claim.

A mass claim right now will just add to the confusion. I think we need to have a lynch and a night to resolve whats wrong with the current claims before we think about massclaiming. And trying to outguess the mod is a recipe for disaster.

Also, for what should be obvious reasons, nobody should answer whether or not they are vanilla.

[sekinj]

i'm not trying to outguess the mod, I'm speculating as to the setup... there is a difference. I think a mass claim will get everything out in the open.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Mass claim can be pushed off to tomorrow. I agree with most of your plan Ice. Don is the only one left vulnerable, but he's also got some of the most suspicion revolving around his claim. So if he's not killed, then the scum are forced to take someone else out most likely a vanilla. I don't see any reason to believe Sekinj though Ice. Why should she be spared today? Do you honestly believe that there are this many power roles? The only one I believe for sure is Spring.

[Rhinox]

I am virtually certain that Lynx is town - either sek is truthfully a cop, in which case there's an innocent investigation on him, or sek is lying, in which case Lynx is a real cop counterclaiming.

Or sek is naive, and lynx is scum taking agvantage of that to get sekinj lynched.

Or lynx is GF, and taking advantage

And then lynx thinks he can argue his way out of his own lynch after a sekinj mislynch, due to the confusion of how many claims there have been.

(not saying I think those are the most likely scenarios, just don't want to ignore the possibility)

If there really are 2 docs, possibly with sanity issues, there could very well be 2 cops with sanity issues, and the mod is screwing with us.

There are way too many claims. Lynx's results don't rule out the possibility that he's naive. I mention this because Rhinox is one of my top two suspects outside of the claimed group, based almost entirely on likelihood of being Budja's scumbuddy.

Well, it would take a guilty result, or a scum flip from an innocent result to prove either sek or lynx were naive. Just sayin, even if I flip town at some point, still doesn't prove lynx isn't naive.

So Spring should certainly be protecting Lynx. Yes it removes the random chance WIFOM from the scum kill, but it also means that the most confirmed town power role lives regardless, unless scum Spring wants to sacrifice herself to kill him.

don's watch should be on Spring. Lynx's investigation is up to him, but it should probably be hitting sek, since with Spring's protect he's guaranteed to live to tomorrow to possibly confirm her. sek's investigation should still be someone in the pool of unclaimed players.

And I think that covers all of the bases.

This plan sucks if you think lynx could be naive - we'll be no better off tomorrow if lynx has an innocent on sekinj.

This is all becoming too convoluted... my head hurts

[TonyMontana]

Vote Count

I'm spartacus, I'm spartacus
I'm not sure I wanna be a part of this
My hip hop is hipper than a hippopotamus
Festivities on wheels like we're drivin the party-bus

L-2

sekjin

(3) springlullaby, don_johnson, lynx
L-2

Spolium

(3) goatrevolt, sekjin, Ice9
L-4

goatrevolt

(1) RedCoyote

Not Voting: (2) Spolium | Rhinox

With 9 people alive, it takes

5 votes to lynch

goatrevolt prodded

Possibly 4 days left until deadline

[sekinj]

lol. it's kind of funny that ALL the other claimed power roles are voting me...

[Ice9]

Mod: You missed my vote for Spolium in Post 978.

Can Springlullaby be prodded? She hasn't posted in ten days.

Didn't miss it, the count was right, just forgot to move your name fixed

And spring is excused.

[Spolium]

With an innocent investigation result on Rhinox, my unclaimed scumlist drops to one - Vote: Spolium

Were it possible to defend myself from a process of elimination, I guess I'd be doing it now.

Spring is V/LA until tomorrow IIRC.

[sekinj]

[joke] I think you should claim watcher. [/joke]

[RedCoyote]

though it is highly believable that plonky failed to pick a target night 1, i find it unbelievable that sekinj would fail to state this with her initial investigation results. results are results and this claim seems like a last minute scum claim.

I agree with don here, but not as strongly as he does.

I do think sekinj's claim sounds sketchy and I do think Plonky probably didn't submit anything and I do find it hard to believe sekinj wouldn't inquire about N1 investigations when she got a Cop role PM after replacing in D2.

As I said earlier, however, I don't think that alone is good enough to lynch her, not when we have other possibilities.

---

@don - Whoa there. What exactly makes you think I'm suggesting a no-lynch?

I would consider pushing for it if I were you.

---

3) If sekinj is most likely scum, then don and spring watch/protect each other and sekinj investigates whoever.

I think this is the best course of action and I think both spring and don will agree with me (after all, it's ultimately up to them).

Theres discussion to be had now, and one of those 3 may end up being lynched yet.

I still think this is a frivolous idea that will get us into more trouble than we need to be in. I cannot see myself supporting this at all; I'd rather no lynch than lynch any of the claimed roles.

---

I don't see hwo it is a big deal that I didn't include a null investigate in my original claim post.

The problem is why you wouldn't think, if you were actually Cop, to include that information automatically. Traditionally when someone makes a big claim like that, they want to give as much information as possible. When people start having to ask you, that makes it harder to believe you're being upfront and honest about everything.

i obv think option 1 is our best bet.

You forget that don, to us, is at least equal to you (and, in my opinion but certainly not Ice's, even easier to believe) in importance. don could die tomorrow should we leave him unprotected. If there is a Godfather, your investigations could be useless whereas don will catch any mafia type who tries to visit spring. Moreover, option 1 will destroy any future shield this town has (e.g. don and spring sticking together) for power roles at the end game.

EBWOP: Option 1 gives us a dead doc, but a piece of information from both don and myself.

You really don't believe don is a Watcher do you? Am I the only one who does?

---

Actually, now that I think about it, if you add in at the end of option 1 that sekinj investigates don, then thats a pretty tight loop - sekinj can't be killed, and would learn weather or not don is scum. That way if spring dies, we would know whether or not he was giving us honest watch results.

No good because don is unprotected.

---

But if you are right and spring is not the auto lynch, wouldn't scum jsut lynch don in this scenario and spoil it all?

Right, exactly.

You'll have to excuse me for repeating infomation that someone else has already said. I tend to read posts chronologically and immediately comment rather than read them all at once.

@RC - if goat isn't reading the thread, your pressure vote isn't doing any good. maybe you are stalling...

Don't start using ellipses with me, missy.

Goat may or may not be reading this thread but if the decision is between Goat and Spolium then I would be happier with Goat.

Although I reference my frustration with his absence, you do realize I think Goat is the scummiest player currently in this game, right?

---

God, do not tell me Lynx is claiming too...

Okay, re-thinking the game. I won't do the same analysis of Lynx that I did of sekinj until tomorrow (if he's still with us).

I think both Spring and Don should randomize their abilities 50/50. For example, Spring randomly chooses either me or Don to protect. Don does the same. This way scum have to take a 50% risk of either getting their kill blocked or watched. All the while I clear another town. Yes, theres a risk and good chance one of us may die, but then scum would have to take a huge chance to take one of us down.

No, no, no. We'll run into the same wall we've been going through with sekinj.

We're sticking with the plan this time. I think the most important thing we do tonight is have spring and don on each other. With Lynx's cc, the mafia would be scared to hit sekinj or Lynx (because, if one of them is mafia, it would make it a hard one to sell tomorrow).

There's always the possibility that, now, the Cop's sanities (specifically sekinj) should be looked into.

But the

most

important thing, in my mind, is the don/spring togetherness. In fact, I would say Lynx's cc makes it even easier to support keeping don and spring on each other, because, as I said, if one of the Cop's are fake they'll probably be scared to hit the other one.

...and don't even get me started with the idea that both Cops could be fake

---

Rhinox's circle plan should be followed.

Spring -> sek -> don -> Spring

My vote is definitely for Spring <-> don and sek and Lynx go for an unclaimed.

I'm sure don will agree with me, and I'm pretty sure spring will as well.

---

oh no! I really am the cop though! and I invesitaged Lynx!!

Oh, that changes everything! Now I believe you 100%! 110%!! XD

---

I mention this because Rhinox is one of my top two suspects outside of the claimed group, based almost entirely on likelihood of being Budja's scumbuddy.

Although I can see this I'm more inclined to think Spolium is guilty of it than Rhinox.

There are also a lot of paired roles going on here - dead doc and claimed doc, two claimed cops. Could be a pattern, could just be coincidental fake claim(s).

Hinting at an unclaimed Watcher, Ice?

I am virtually certain that Lynx is town - either sek is truthfully a cop, in which case there's an innocent investigation on him, or sek is lying, in which case Lynx is a real cop counterclaiming.

This is pretty narrow. Like I said, both claims could easily be fake, and, as you mentioned pairs, sanities could still be an important factor.

For all we know spring could still be a Quack protecting scumSpolium.

So Spring should certainly be protecting Lynx.

Absolutely not.

---

maybe the mod put in tons of roles so we would all counter claim and kill each other off. maybe that is how the town is balanced with the scum.

I think this is a definite possibility.

---

A mass claim right now will just add to the confusion. I think we need to have a lynch and a night to resolve whats wrong with the current claims before we think about massclaiming.

Agreed. The only person that should be claiming right now is today's lynch candidate.

---

Why should [sekinj] be spared today?

Why should you?

I mean, if I thought there was just one Cop for sure, I would take you over sekinj any day of the week, but that's not what's at issue here. You have to remember that your towniness is supported primarily by two things, one, that most of us consider you town based on our own reads, and two, sekinj's possible investigation (which you yourself would have to null because you don't believe her).

I have to tell you Lynx, you're moving closer to scum on my own personal list. I'd definitely call Rhinox town before you now.

This could of course change depending on the night kill/investigations.

---

If there really are 2 docs, possibly with sanity issues, there could very well be 2 cops with sanity issues, and the mod is screwing with us.

I'd go as far as to say this is the most probable situation at the moment. My reasoning is based on the no kill N1, Jebus' protection of spring, and spring's protection of Spolium both nights.

With two Cops out now, I think the best route would be to

unvote

and

vote: Spolium

.

With two Docs and two Cops, we need to take action about the sanities issue.

As far as I'm concerned, the primary goal is keeping don and spring on each other, and the secondary goal is tackling how the potential sanities breakdown. If Spolium is scum, then sanity becomes and even greater possibility; if Spolium is town, well, we'll cross that bridge when/if we come to it. Additionally, if don ends up dying (along with another person), sanities would almost certainly be a factor.

This is all becoming too convoluted... my head hurts

No joke, just watch Spolium claim Watcher/Cop/Doc now. XD

---

Were it possible to defend myself from a process of elimination, I guess I'd be doing it now.

If this isn't an admission to being mafia, then explain this comment please.

To me this sounds like, "I can't defend myself, not going to bother... I'm scum."

If you're town, you have a responsibility to fight back. There is a prime opportunity in Goat still, if you ask me, or you could pick up on a No Lynch argument too.

That said, I think it's time for Spolium to claim given the fact that the Mod has shown no signs of extending the deadline.

[Spolium]

Were it possible to defend myself from a process of elimination, I guess I'd be doing it now.

If this isn't an admission to being mafia, then explain this comment please.

To me this sounds like, "I can't defend myself, not going to bother... I'm scum."

No, it's "how can I realistically defend myself against Ice's vote"? He didn't say "Spolium is scummy because of X", but "Players A, B and C are probably not scummy, and that leaves Spolium". While this sort of reasoning can be valid, it stands as a symbol of my main issue with the case on me; it's being made largely for it's own sake, rather than because people think I'm especially scummy.

Of all the players currently voting me to L-1, sekinj is the only one who has actually offered something resembling a case. Goat hasn't yet presented a case for his vote despite being first on the wagon, Ice9 has arrived at my vote through a process of elimination based on the towniness/usefulness of

other

players and you've voted because you think it'll clear up Spring's sanity (which doesn't seem any more beneficial a suggestion now than when it was suggested several pages ago).

I'm curious, RC. First you said this:

Goat may or may not be reading this thread but

if the decision is between Goat and Spolium then I would be happier with Goat

.

Although I reference my frustration with his absence, you do realize

I think Goat is the scummiest player

currently in this game, right?

Then you said this:

With two Cops out now,

I think the best route would be to unvote and vote: Spolium.

With two Docs and two Cops,

we need to take action about the sanities issue.

As far as I'm concerned, the primary goal is keeping don and spring on each other, and the secondary goal is tackling how the potential sanities breakdown. If Spolium is scum, then sanity becomes and even greater possibility; if Spolium is town, well, we'll cross that bridge when/if we come to it.

It's apparent that you had to re-think between these excerpts, but how exactly does the second cop claim warrant the switch from Goat to me? How did you get from "Goat is the scummiest player" to "let's vote Spolium to clear up sanities"?

That said, I think it's time for Spolium to claim given the fact that the Mod has shown no signs of extending the deadline.

I'll claim if a majority of players want me to do so.

[sekinj]

I want you to claim. because I want everyone to claim.

[Spolium]

Why do you think a mass claim would be good right now?

[sekinj]

though it is highly believable that plonky failed to pick a target night 1, i find it unbelievable that sekinj would fail to state this with her initial investigation results. results are results and this claim seems like a last minute scum claim.

I agree with don here, but not as strongly as he does.
I do think sekinj's claim sounds sketchy and I do think Plonky probably didn't submit anything and I do find it hard to believe sekinj wouldn't inquire about N1 investigations when she got a Cop role PM after replacing in D2.
As I said earlier, however, I don't think that alone is good enough to lynch her, not when we have other possibilities.

I have already addressed this with don. Did you miss those answers? I will repost them here for you.

I didn't wait, and I never said I did. the mod told me right away that plonky didn't investigate anyone. I don't see hwo it is a big deal that I didn't include a null investigate in my original claim post.

you mis-understood me, don. I wasn't saying that I "did not have" any information about who was investigate night 1. I was was saying that there was no information to share about it, no one was investigated, so I didn't think it important to share a null fact in my first claim post. I knew the question would come up and I woudl asnwer in the next few posts... I still dont' understand why you believe that to be so important. [wifom] if i was fake claiming, and had been setting it up from yesterday when I mentioned a godfather, don't you think I would have pat answers to everything and have included anything I could think of to be more believeable in my very first post? [/wifom]

I don't see hwo it is a big deal that I didn't include a null investigate in my original claim post.

The problem is why you wouldn't think, if you were actually Cop, to include that information automatically. Traditionally when someone makes a big claim like that, they want to give as much information as possible. When people start having to ask you, that makes it harder to believe you're being upfront and honest about everything.

I already answered this as well. you seem to be selectively reading. Please re-read my quotes above.

EBWOP: Option 1 gives us a dead doc, but a piece of information from both don and myself.

You really don't believe don is a Watcher do you? Am I the only one who does?

what?? My statement says that we will get information from both don and myself. how in the world did you jump to the conclusion that I don't believe don. I have stated many many times that I believe both don and spring for now.

@RC - if goat isn't reading the thread, your pressure vote isn't doing any good. maybe you are stalling...

Don't start using ellipses with me, missy.
Goat may or may not be reading this thread but if the decision is between Goat and Spolium then I would be happier with Goat.
Although I reference my frustration with his absence, you do realize I think Goat is the scummiest player currently in this game, right?

if you think he is the scummiest player, then give that reason when you vote him rather than crap about trying to make him stop lurking.

God, do not tell me Lynx is claiming too...
Okay, re-thinking the game. I won't do the same analysis of Lynx that I did of sekinj until tomorrow (if he's still with us).

more stalling? I don't see why we need to wait. let's discuss now while more of us are alive!!

maybe the mod put in tons of roles so we would all counter claim and kill each other off. maybe that is how the town is balanced with the scum.

I think this is a definite possibility.

qft

A mass claim right now will just add to the confusion. I think we need to have a lynch and a night to resolve whats wrong with the current claims before we think about massclaiming.

Agreed. The only person that should be claiming right now is today's lynch candidate.

If we have tons of power roles, don't you realize the pointlessness of this? it is just popcorn claiming by using votes. we get spoilum at L-1, he claims, we back off, we get Ice at L-1, he claims, we back off... Let's just skip all that and mass claim! You know what I think?? scum does not want to mass claim because they are scared to say they are vanilla townie! there very well may not be any vanilla townies, and scum do not want to be a target by saying that, it would be pretty difficult to come up with a third doc, or third cop at this point... I'm not saying there aren't vanilla townies, I'm just saying that scum doesn't want to be the first one to claim to be vanilla townie.

Were it possible to defend myself from a process of elimination, I guess I'd be doing it now.

If this isn't an admission to being mafia, then explain this comment please.
To me this sounds like, "I can't defend myself, not going to bother... I'm scum."
If you're town, you have a responsibility to fight back. There is a prime opportunity in Goat still, if you ask me, or you could pick up on a No Lynch argument too.
That said, I think it's time for Spolium to claim given the fact that the Mod has shown no signs of extending the deadline.

[/quote]
this is bull. spolium is saying that it's impossible to defend against a process of elimination vote, and RC is saying the pat townie thing "you have to fight if you're town" bull bull bull. RC is going back up on my scumdar with this post full of issues I have already addressed and other mis-reps.

[sekinj]

Why do you think a mass claim would be good right now?

If we have tons of power roles, don't you realize the pointlessness of this? it is just popcorn claiming by using votes. we get spoilum at L-1, he claims, we back off, we get Ice at L-1, he claims, we back off... Let's just skip all that and mass claim! You know what I think?? scum does not want to mass claim because they are scared to say they are vanilla townie! there very well may not be any vanilla townies, and scum do not want to be a target by saying that, it would be pretty difficult to come up with a third doc, or third cop at this point... I'm not saying there aren't vanilla townies, I'm just saying that scum doesn't want to be the first one to claim to be vanilla townie.

[sekinj]

unvote

[Spolium]

If we have tons of power roles, don't you realize the pointlessness of this? it is just popcorn claiming by using votes. we get spoilum at L-1, he claims, we back off, we get Ice at L-1, he claims, we back off... Let's just skip all that and mass claim!

I find myself in agreement with this. Additionally, it would give us a chance to try and clear up the power role confusion without resorting to lynching for lynching's sake.

I endorse a massclaim.

[Spolium]

I also volunteer to be the first claim of the current non-claimants, if a massclaim is agreed upon.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

quote="RC"]Lynx 983 wrote:
Why should [sekinj] be spared today?


Why should you?

I mean, if I thought there was just one Cop for sure, I would take you over sekinj any day of the week, but that's not what's at issue here. You have to remember that your towniness is supported primarily by two things, one, that most of us consider you town based on our own reads, and two, sekinj's possible investigation (which you yourself would have to null because you don't believe her).

I have to tell you Lynx, you're moving closer to scum on my own personal list. I'd definitely call Rhinox town before you now.

This could of course change depending on the night kill/investigations. [/quote]

Why would I possibly counterclaim the real cop as scum? Think about it for just a second? Is there any point to me countering when there has been relatively no suspcion on me all game? When the claimed cop has an innocent read on me? Why would I possibly throw that all out the window as scum to take out the cop when we're already down a member? It's just pointless and extremely absurd to me unless of course I am the real cop.

And I don't understand why you've been so adament about Don. Your unwavering belief in his claim is baffling me. The plan is all based around both of them telling the truth which is hard to swallow for me still.

I am not huge on the Spolium lynch right now. I'd much prefer Sekinj still. But considering I'm the cop it's not easy for me to let Sekinj go free. Her claim just feels like such Bull to me and why others are in doubt over it is beyond me.

I endorse the mass-claim