Mini 773- Welcome to Lynchville! Perfection! (Over)

[afatchic]

Votecount number 5:

Kublai Khan-(3)-BrianMcQueso, PieIsPopcorn, Light-kun
alexhans-(1)-Archaist
ppp973-(1)-alexhans
Light-kun-(1)-RedCoyote
PieIsPopcorn-(1)-Kublai Khan
No-Lynch-(1)-ppp973

Not voting-(4)-cater action, Cream147, ChiefSkye4, LesterGroans

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Happy Scumday ChiefSkye!!

[RedCoyote]

Based on post 80, going to go ahead and

unvote

. Now that Light-kun kind of cleared things up, I understand where he's coming from much better.

---

I was a doctor is a mafia round and I was going to get lynched, but the bus driver saved me. However, the bust driver was working with the mafia.

What does this have to do with anything?

---

I'm just trying to warn you against that problem so we can avoid getting confused by a townie fight.

Do you think this is happening now, in this game?

---

Can we move off the novice discussion and move more on the KK versus Pie discussion?

Does this mean you are getting townie vibes off of ppp and/or alex?

vote: Cream147

[cateraction]

I think he means to say that we're really spinning our wheels explaining things like "no lynch is a bad idea" and things like that. I agree that Pie and KK have more interesting and insightful accusations. Would you care to explain your vote for Cream? It seems strange based on your post. Didn't even mention him.

[Light-kun]

Based on post 80, going to go ahead and

unvote

. Now that Light-kun kind of cleared things up, I understand where he's coming from much better.

Can we move off the novice discussion and move more on the KK versus Pie discussion?

Does this mean you are getting townie vibes off of ppp and/or alex?

Neither. It's closer to I think the novice discussion is a distraction and comparatively irrelevant.

As above, do explain your vote on Cream.

[BrianMcQueso]

I'm guessing lurker hunt, since Cream hasn't posted in about a week.

Speaking of which, how's it going, cateraction? Glad you decided to show up, but I'd like to hear your opinion on a lot of the stuff that's been going down.

And Lester? Caught up yet?

[alexhans]

re-read done. I may have gone over some things again but from a new point of view.

While I find it silly to vote for ppp based on his joke to vote for "the mafia", I'd like it a lot more if he'd at least try to contribute. While random votes on people doesn't provide much useful information, it's still something.

@ Kublai: PieisPopcorn has a point. I get the feeling you were trying to push that bandwagon without being on it. It's pretty minor as far as scumtells go, but

combined with how snappy and defensive you're acting

towards Pie in response, I think it's worth a vote switch.

(bolded by me)
This I found strange... How was his response snappy and defensive? I only saw it a bit contradictory when he first said that ppp should be lynched but later told pie that he wasn't sold by policy lynches (41).
Brian attacks him with no reason and mentioned that PiePop was sewing confusion and chaos.

To be completely honest, I was scanning the page, and I only saw 1 vote on him :/ Sounds like a convenient excuse, but it's true. Since it was the RVS, I didn't thoroughly read :/ ppp's vote stood out because it was longer than the others', and I saw it, and in going to reply, I spotted only one other vote, Archaist's.

Ok... So you didn't see mine? That I don't understand. I could understand you seen both and voting to see who would call on the bandwaggon but saying you didn't see mine when there was a 6:41 - 7:17 = 36 minutes period between my vote and yours. There's a possible satisfying answer to this but I want you to give it to me.

On an unrelated note... I just notices you're a girl... And you have an avatar of Gossip Girl... Cool. Can I call you C?

Then comes 49 where ppp votes me for being "scared" I really don't know why because I had never said such thing...

Additionally, I'm not going to touch the ppp thing. I have no problem with his vote, I actually thought it was kind of clever

How was it clever?
Your reasons on Kublai are less than Brian's.
57:ppp tells me to read his post instead of tl;dr(too long don't read, I had to google that) but I don't think they long enough to entitle a long read... I just didn't find a reason for his vote...

How am I supposed to get to know you without pushing your buttons? Besides, I still see you as being on the defensive if you hastily call my actions "jumping to conclusions". It seems like everyone who's made even the slightest claim against you has gotten a huge post reaction

Didn't you jump into conclusions when saying he was acting defensive or over reacting? and accuse him again for hastily accusing you? You're trashing him while playing it cool?

FoS:BrianMcQueso

How exactly does a third vote on a wagon fish for reactions?

It leaves him at L-4 a tini tiny bit scarier than l-5... Harder to ignore.

Now, I'm aware that arguments are not going to be solid, but there is a different between arguments not based on airtight premises and craplogic, and this is the latter. If Lester honestly believed what you claim he did, he would have quickly unvoted, and voted somebody else. He did explain his vote too, eager to hear your response.

First of all: I didn't claim he did anything... I just asked him a question to get an answer about something he had said that I found strange. I think if he is scum he will not do that unvoting and voting because ti could appear as wishi-washiness so it's a null tell. Eager to hear my response? what's that? a subtle accusation that I didn't answer him or what?

No, I don't think anyone this early is going to be lynched because of a bandwagon, but it was just an arbitrary vote and I probably would have chosen someone else if I knew there was a vote for him right above me anyway.

What should I answer if there's no question and it answers my previous one?

It was after Lester asked an (IMO) pretty innocous question that suddenly Kublai gets defensive and starts attacking my method of ending the RVS. It feels like if it were genuine, it would have been more immediate.

Totally subjective from your part.

when did Alexhans state that he was scared to be lynched?

ppp? what do you say? It's been asked a couple of times, it seems.

Snappy? Defensive? Holy leaping to conclusions, Batman! Don't you have to know me first before making that call?

Yeah, you see this, this is both snappy and defensive.

wow. anything you say WILL be used against you Kublai... Seems like you're arrested. I don't think that's necessarily a scum tell if it indeed is snappy and defensive.

Good reasons in 64 on why to be alert on the RVS by PiePop.

My vote targeted only the mafia's so I doesn't make sense for a townie to have a problem with that

addon- I agree with all of your comments, but yes I know it's meaningless but it only targeted mafia.

Sorry ppp but this is lame. Your vote didn't target anyone at all. It's not valid. I think you may have thought it to be a good trap but it really isn't because scum wouldn't care about it.

After Pie's #63, his scumminess is contrary to Kublai's. Low percent.

Let's not make that kind of assumptions yet, we can always be surprised by scum fighting each other.
Brian has a point regarding Light-kun in 73

PPP: Do you have anything else to add? It seems to me that there have been several interesting points brought forth and a good deal of pressure applied, any comment?

I feel like I commented on most of the game in #63-64. Is there anything in particular you want me to talk about?

I think you thought that ppp was you but you're either PiePop or PiP. He was asking ppp973.

81: Nice post by KK. A lot of coherent things. KK and PiePop are both right in their own ways. They have different views of the game. I don't agree with the KK waggon, At all.

82: Archaist votes me... How many times has he posted?

This is why I see you two as scummy. You made scummy actions, but you also had a point against Kublai that I agreed with, therefore, I voted Kublai, more scummy, while you were also a high percentage.

Yeah... both have a high percentage but if one is scum the other is not , according to you...

Just did a re-read, everyone (of consequence) in isolation

Is there anyone that seems to be lurking or active lurking?

add on: We a risking to kill a pro-town, and I think Alex did make a valid point that townies won't want to be lynched.

I was a doctor is a mafia round and I was going to get lynched, but the bus driver saved me. However, the bust driver was working with the mafia.

What's your point with the doc story?
91: Now this is jumpy. ppp973 only said that my answer was satisfying and chief thought I he was defending me and quickly tried to dismiss what he said...
92. Light-kun agrees.

Is that in any way, help reveal anyone's alignment?

I don't understand what you mean... but I'll try to explain why I thought it could be viewed as scummy:
I said not to say who is town.
That may mean I'm telling you not to scumhunt, as brian said, saying who we think is innocent and who is guilty may give us more info in the way of reactions. What I didn't like about it was that if we said that a scum was town in our view, others may agree and the said scum will have a free pass until the end of the game when people have their suspicions hard coded in their minds. I prefer that we say who we think is town and scum but state that we can change that whenever we feel like and that NO ONE is cleared. I've seen in 753 (Sanity Ensues Mafia) a pro-town Charrat and Green crayons (although a bit lurkish) to ride completely untouched and unquestioned through the whole game. That's why I'm wary of Archaist and all the players of that kind.

Do you think this is happening now, in this game?

I don't know.

Speaking of which, how's it going, cateraction? Glad you decided to show up, but I'd like to hear your opinion on a lot of the stuff that's been going down.

yeah... him and Archaist.

Number of posts without talking quality or content into account (and not counting the 0).
Cream: 2
Alexhans: 9
Archaist: 3
Brian: 8
Cateraction: 3
chief: 6
KK: 7
Lester: 8
Light-Kun: 10
PiePop: 7
RedCoyote: 7
ppp973: 13

Make of it what you want.

[cateraction]

I read ppp as a really excited player, but not incredibly scummy. I'd say townie if I had to call it now.

I really was with Piepop on the KK wagon, but I think that KK responded well, and I'm satisfied. However, I think that Piepop's were legitimate scumhunting. So, I think they both read town for me.

I'm not really getting scum reads on anyone but light khun, who seems to be spreading blame around without any real basis.

[BrianMcQueso]

While I find it silly to vote for ppp based on his joke to vote for "the mafia", I'd like it a lot more if he'd at least try to contribute. While random votes on people doesn't provide much useful information, it's still something.

@ Kublai: PieisPopcorn has a point. I get the feeling you were trying to push that bandwagon without being on it. It's pretty minor as far as scumtells go, but

combined with how snappy and defensive you're acting

towards Pie in response, I think it's worth a vote switch.

(bolded by me)
This I found strange... How was his response snappy and defensive? I only saw it a bit contradictory when he first said that ppp should be lynched but later told pie that he wasn't sold by policy lynches (41).
Brian attacks him with no reason and mentioned that PiePop was sewing confusion and chaos.

Allow me to explain:

I have experience playing with ppp973. Voting for him is the best Day 1 action for town.

Looking at ppp's past game, I see your point. However, if you're for an early ppp bandwagon, why aren't you voting him?

Kublai Khan's next post (emphasis mine):

Yeah, but random stage is going to happen. Mind as well let people get it out of their system. Since PieIsPopcorn is starting the questioning in the opening 2 pages where people are still going to pop in with their random vote,

all he accomplishes is sewing confusion and chaos into the opening procedures

.

Better to let everyone show up, say their hellos, make their jokes, etc..,

and then leap in with pointed questions

. I just don't see the benefit in breaking with convention.

Pie asked a legitimate question in "why do you support this bandwagon but you're not on it?" Kublai Khan essentially ignores the question, then accuses Pie of sewing confusion as well as attacking people with pointed questions. I saw this as an overreaction. I state as such in my post 46:

@ Kublai: PieisPopcorn has a point. I get the feeling you were trying to push that bandwagon without being on it. It's pretty minor as far as scumtells go, but combined with how snappy and defensive you're acting towards Pie in response, I think it's worth a vote switch.

unvote: alexhans
vote: KublaiKhan

Kublai Khan's next post:

Snappy? Defensive? Holy leaping to conclusions, Batman! Don't you have to know me first before making that call? All I said was that I disagreed with PieIsPopcorn's early game tactics.

And as far as "pushing a (ppp973) wagon without being on it" goes. Did you notice I put a smiley? It was a rib at ppp973, and I think he got it. (Or he may not of, I don't know, I still can't read him very well).

This is what "pushing a wagon without being on it" looks like:

I'll have a detailed post on the criticisms against me tomorrow after school, however I would like to say that I support the Kublai wagon.

Hell, he even unvoted within the post without voting for me.

Because I placed my single, solitary vote on him, Kublai turns around and accuses me of jumping to conclusions and implies that I shouldn't make judgments because I don't "know him". I get the impression that he's nervous to even have any pressure on him whatsoever. I have noticed that Kublai Khan has also been somewhat hostile towards other players who have vocalized any sort of suspicion towards him:

Less commas and more sense, please.

Nice blinders.

I'm not saying this is an airtight case against KK, because it's definitely not. But compared to the other players in the game, I'm more comfortable with a vote on him than anyone else at this point.

[ChiefSkye4]

To be completely honest, I was scanning the page, and I only saw 1 vote on him :/ Sounds like a convenient excuse, but it's true. Since it was the RVS, I didn't thoroughly read :/ ppp's vote stood out because it was longer than the others', and I saw it, and in going to reply, I spotted only one other vote, Archaist's.

Ok... So you didn't see mine? That I don't understand. I could understand you seen both and voting to see who would call on the bandwaggon but saying you didn't see mine when there was a 6:41 - 7:17 = 36 minutes period between my vote and yours. There's a possible satisfying answer to this but I want you to give it to me.

I understand that our votes were close in time, and what I'm about to explain cannot be proved definitively, but take a look at this--> http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a110/ ... 44/sdf.jpg

Notice my multiple tabs open. I'm in multiple games at the moment (as I was at that time), and my habits are as follows: Go to www.mafiascum.net/forum, open "Little Italy", "Coney Island", and "Mish Mash" tabs. Mark all forums as read, get out of tab. Open my games, read them up to where they've stopped. Open a reply tab, move on to next game. Once that's done (with my approx 5 games), I move back to the first one, and begin to reply. This can take up to an hour or two, and I don't refresh the page (although, I guess I should now :/) between reads and replies. That day was no different. Sorry there's no hard proof for that.

On an unrelated note... I just notices you're a girl... And you have an avatar of Gossip Girl... Cool. Can I call you C?

Yes, I am a girl :p And yes, Gossip Girl is the shiz. I'm glad someone recognized it. I'm thinking about modding a GG game at some point, but I think only, like, 2 people would have ever watched the show haha. ANYWAY, sure, you can call me whatever you want (I do get the joke lol) :p

Just did a re-read, everyone (of consequence) in isolation

Is there anyone that seems to be lurking or active lurking?

Well, cateraction was until recently, and Cream come to mind.

Is that in any way, help reveal anyone's alignment?

I don't understand what you mean... but I'll try to explain why I thought it could be viewed as scummy:
I said not to say who is town.
That may mean I'm telling you not to scumhunt, as brian said, saying who we think is innocent and who is guilty may give us more info in the way of reactions. What I didn't like about it was that if we said that a scum was town in our view, others may agree and the said scum will have a free pass until the end of the game when people have their suspicions hard coded in their minds. I prefer that we say who we think is town and scum but state that we can change that whenever we feel like and that NO ONE is cleared. I've seen in 753 (Sanity Ensues Mafia) a pro-town Charrat and Green crayons (although a bit lurkish) to ride completely untouched and unquestioned through the whole game. That's why I'm wary of Archaist and all the players of that kind.

Ok, I understand, ja, but what my question was, well, it was basically, "What does me not pointing out a potential scummy remark of yours, that you bring up yourself oddly enough, tell anyone? If anything?"

[afatchic]

I just prodded Cream147, so we should see him again shortly. If y'all notice someone else that needs a prod or any mistakes i made, just bold them for me and i will correct them ASAP. Okay, now back to lynching...

[Archaist]

The Alexhans' case is over rated.

Over rated? There were a whole

two

posts about it when you said this, and you only commented on it after ChiefSkye4 did, not in your post right after I voted.

Also, you keep using your "percentage" system. How high of a percent do you say is required for you to feel comfortable lynching someone? How do you assign these percentage points? Are they based on something concrete like X number of scummy posts or is it abstract and based on your "gut feeling?" If it's concrete please share the details, they would be useful to the whole town. If it's abstract it's a useless way to "quantify" some gut feeling you have. Since you say "100%=proven scum," I assume that some lesser percent only means there is less proof, but still proof and not just a feeling. Please share the proof you have and how you quantify it.

[alexhans]

Over rated? There were a whole

two

posts about it when you said this, and you only commented on it after ChiefSkye4 did, not in your post right after I voted.

dude, the whole two posts are your calling me off for supposedly not wanting to leave RVS (82) and not being confortable with scumhunting and chief's saying she was suspicious of me because of your post (86).

So yeah, It IS over rated.

[Cream147]

Sorry about that, I'm here. Will make a constructive post tomorrow when it's not 3am.

[Light-kun]

I read ppp as a really excited player, but not incredibly scummy. I'd say townie if I had to call it now.

I really was with Piepop on the KK wagon, but I think that KK responded well, and I'm satisfied. However, I think that Piepop's were legitimate scumhunting. So, I think they both read town for me.

I'm not really getting scum reads on anyone but light khun, who seems to be spreading blame around without any real basis.

Huh? I do believe I said that attack on Alexhans is over rated.

@Alexhans: The statement in reaction to Kublai's post was hindsight, and better explain an opinion I had before modifying my viewpoint later to "They are contrary to each other."
Of course they can be scum together, but the likelihood is slightly lessened.

The Alexhans' case is over rated.

Over rated? There were a whole

two

posts about it when you said this, and you only commented on it after ChiefSkye4 did, not in your post right after I voted.

Also, you keep using your "percentage" system. How high of a percent do you say is required for you to feel comfortable lynching someone? How do you assign these percentage points? Are they based on something concrete like X number of scummy posts or is it abstract and based on your "gut feeling?" If it's concrete please share the details, they would be useful to the whole town. If it's abstract it's a useless way to "quantify" some gut feeling you have. Since you say "100%=proven scum," I assume that some lesser percent only means there is less proof, but still proof and not just a feeling. Please share the proof you have and how you quantify it.

Proof would just be reiterated. Also, 100% does equal proven scum, but people, just by playing, typically stay in a range of 20%-50%. (The boundaries are like asymptotes and have yet to be accomplished by anybody outside of cop reports/ logical deduction of irrefutable events.)

I also fail to see how my opinion of Alexhans is any less valid. Less information was available but anything since then hasn't alter my opinion.

[RedCoyote]

Would you care to explain your vote for Cream? It seems strange based on your post. Didn't even mention him.

As Brian speculated, I was just giving him a lurker vote. I tend to find that sort of vote works more effectively if it isn't labeled as a pressure vote but just left to see how the lurker reacts.

---

How was it clever?

Traditionally we vote for people we suspect of being the mafia, but ppp took the opportunity to say he just wanted to vote "the mafia", lol.

Very clever but I don't think it'll work this time.

Your reasons on Kublai are less than Brian's.

Depends on how much stock you put into the idea that people can push bandwagons without being on them.

[Archaist]

The Alexhans' case is over rated.

Over rated? There were a whole

two

posts about it when you said this, and you only commented on it after ChiefSkye4 did, not in your post right after I voted.

Also, you keep using your "percentage" system. How high of a percent do you say is required for you to feel comfortable lynching someone? How do you assign these percentage points? Are they based on something concrete like X number of scummy posts or is it abstract and based on your "gut feeling?" If it's concrete please share the details, they would be useful to the whole town. If it's abstract it's a useless way to "quantify" some gut feeling you have. Since you say "100%=proven scum," I assume that some lesser percent only means there is less proof, but still proof and not just a feeling. Please share the proof you have and how you quantify it.

Proof would just be reiterated. Also, 100% does equal proven scum, but people, just by playing, typically stay in a range of 20%-50%. (The boundaries are like asymptotes and have yet to be accomplished by anybody outside of cop reports/ logical deduction of irrefutable events.)

I also fail to see how my opinion of Alexhans is any less valid. Less information was available but anything since then hasn't alter my opinion.

I see you ignored most of my questions. Here they are again, numbered nice and easy for you:
1. How high of a percent do you say is required for you to feel comfortable lynching someone?
2. How do you assign these percentage points?
3. Are they based on something concrete like X number of scummy posts or is it abstract and based on your "gut feeling?"

Also I never said your opinion of alexhans was less valid. In fact I never commented on your opinion at all. All I did was point out that you didn't comment until after ChiefSkye4 did.

For evading questions and implying I said something I didn't:

Unvote
Vote: Light-kun

[ppp973]

Number of posts without talking quality or content into account (and not counting the 0).
Cream: 2
Alexhans: 9
Archaist: 3
Brian: 8
Cateraction: 3
chief: 6
KK: 7
Lester: 8
Light-Kun: 10
PiePop: 7
RedCoyote: 7
ppp973: 13


oh noez I haz over posted

what ever?


Kay.

Alexhans, I will change it to, that you were annoyed and not scared.

Make of it what you want.

[cateraction]

What an incredibly useful post. It's exactly what I wanted for you to leave out quality and content and make no comments on it. It's amazing that you have so many posts, when your posts are so full of content.

[Kublai Khan]

Pie asked a legitimate question in "why do you support this bandwagon but you're not on it?" Kublai Khan essentially ignores the question, then accuses Pie of sewing confusion as well as attacking people with pointed questions. I saw this as an overreaction.

I ignored it because it was a ridiculous question.

Because I placed my single, solitary vote on him, Kublai turns around and accuses me of jumping to conclusions and implies that I shouldn't make judgments because I don't "know him". I get the impression that he's nervous to even have any pressure on him whatsoever.

I'm sorry, but where did I say you couldn't make judgements about me?

I accused you of jumping to conclusions because, well, you jumped to conclusions. My reaction was neither snappy nor defensive.

I have noticed that Kublai Khan has also been somewhat hostile towards other players who have vocalized any sort of suspicion towards him

Portraying my asking Light-kun to make more sense as "hostile" is a serious mischaracterization. Did you miss where Light-kun agreed that his post made no sense?

Why are you trying so hard to bend facts to make me look bad?

[RedCoyote]

Cream, you need to post.

Favoring Brian over KK right now, KK's aggression leaves a rotten taste in my mouth although I do agree with his last point that Brian mischaracterized him as hostile "towards other players" when he's really only spoken to PiP and Brian.

[BrianMcQueso]

I'm sorry, but where did I say you couldn't make judgements about me?

Snappy? Defensive? Holy leaping to conclusions, Batman!

Don't you have to know me first before making that call?

Why are you trying so hard to bend facts to make me look bad?

I am under the impression that you are scum (you might have noticed). When I find something you do that supports that theory, I am going to draw attention to it. Yes, it's coming from a skewed and biased viewpoint. But I'm not one to stand around and act neutrally towards everyone. I have an opinion, which is more than I can say for half the people in this town. Not a fan of all these lurkers.

[BrianMcQueso]

I have an opinion, which is more than I can say for half the people in this town.

Frustrated exaggeration, by the way.

[afatchic]

I'm about to prod LesterGroans and PieIsPopcorn since they are both well overdue for one. There are also a few that have been 48 hrs. since posting, so i will be checking again tomorrow, and giving them out where necessary.

On a side note, it wouldn't hurt my feelings if activity picked up quite a bit. It started out great, but now things have kinda slowed down.

[alexhans]

Alexhans, I will change it to, that you were annoyed and not scared.

Make of it what you want.

I think this post isn't useful. First you repost my postcount and leave outdated without saying so (at least quote it man) and then you recognize you were wrong and try to leave it as a point against me? Is it surprising that your weird not voting anyone but playing annoys me?


dude... there are some players who just won't give info... For example... read cateration in isolation. He just doesn't scumhunt, No vote (not even Random). He mildly defends a couple of people and state that he is a bit suspicious of Light-kun but nothing else. Lester hasn't been very active either but he has been prodded.

What an incredibly useful post. It's exactly what I wanted for you to leave out quality and content and make no comments on it. It's amazing that you have so many posts, when your posts are so full of content.

What about yours?

unvote, vote cateraction

I also don't like Archaist's case on me based on my "not wanting to leave RVS" and find it a bit opportunistic but maybe it's just me knowing I'm town (and not undestanding why I'm being attacked) that gets me paranoid. Although with few posts he has made a couple of questions to scum hunt.

[ChiefSkye4]

maybe it's just me knowing I'm town (and not undestanding why I'm being attacked) that gets me paranoid.

Sounds a little forced to me :/

Also, just noticed you're from BA, Argentina- best city I've ever traveled to. Props :p