Newbie 745 - Town wins!

[Kison]

Spinach/Walnut was friendly with Mufasa, answered a few of his questions. Hohum/qwints was never too friendly with him.

What do you think, Kison?

I've read through the game again and have my thoughts, but I'm going to wait for them to finish pulverizing one another before posting.

[farside22]

This vote count is brought to you with the news that the mod will be on vacation for 3 days starting Friday. I will ask Vel to just check on you guys and if a lynch occurs to inform you of the verdict in my absence.

Vote count:

Walnut 1 vote: (qwints)
qwints 1 vote: (Walnut)

Not voting:

Gabe
Kison

With 4 players it will take 3 to lynch

[Walnut]

Carrying on from where I left off:

Post 318: a big PBPA (post by post analysis) to start with. It is somewhat reasonable stuff... and largely what has been said before by other players. Pst 333 (Walnut) already pointed out the stretching attack on neko/Kison. My guess is that the replacing scum was allowed 2 PMs with the existing scum to plan tactics, and they decided on bussing, as within a couple of posts qwints and Mufasa are voting for each other. This is not surprising- as I said yesterday (in game time) Mufasa had so much suspicion on him that it was a great time for his partner to get town brownie points by going after him.

Post 329: This is well done, as qwints says all the right things for an IC in a very reasonable manner, and there is nothing in his posts about claiming/role fishing/requesting claims that is contentious. However- this is exactly the way to play when IC scum, as he is presenting something that fully supports his current position.

Post 332: UNVOTES, TO AVOID LYNCH OF MUFASA! qwints calls it an abundance of caution, but it looks like his bussing had been too persuasive and that Mufasa might actually get lynched. The problem they faced was that the votes that jumped off qwints went to Mufasa, which was kind of "out of the frying pan into the fire". To be honest, I think qwints slightly lost his nerve here, and that letting Mufasa be lynched might have worked better.

You know, we have been through these last four pages recently. Rather than recap them, I would recommend re-reading with the knowledge that Mufasa was scum and that Family:Kostic was town.

[qwints]

When I unvoted, I was scared that Mufasa - who many thought to be overeager newbie - would be lynched ON PAGE 14 after BV quickly followed up on my vote. I was unsure of my read and didn't want to throw us into LYLO with so little information.

I also find it quite suspicious that walnut thinks there were two private pms; I have never heard of such a policy and it seems like a strange guess.

[Walnut]

I recently completed Newbie 731 in which I was scum and my partner was replaced partway through. The mod (Vel-Rahn Koon, the Newbie List mod) allowed us two PMs to catch up on plans etc.

[Kison]

Through a combination of qwints' actions after replacing in, and Mufasa's later interactions with him, I'm convinced qwints is scum.

Keep in mind that the cop claim is not phasing at all. Without any breadcrumbs, there's no reason to believe that qwints is more likely to be telling the truth than it is likely that Walnuts is, in fact, town.

Vote: qwints

Qwints is most deffinitely more scummy than FK based on his predecessor s actions, and the way he has come in and said that he cant justify any of the actions that hohum did that were most scummy.

Attention please Qwints: You seemed to avoid my last post most carefully, reason to avoid it? You're predecessor was most deffinitely scummy and you don't get a new role when replacing therefore you have inherited that role of scummy. I wouldn't mind FK going home either frankly, however, I believe that you are the scummiest and should be lynched based on who I truly believe is scum. That is you.

That is why I must Stand up and

unvote, vote: Qwints

There is pretty much no other person than BV and Spinach that played as quiet as Hohum. You my sir are deff scum.

The tone is what sets the alarms off with these. It just seems like Mufasa is exerting an excessive amount of disdain towards qwints, and working hard to inform everyone that he believes that qwints is scum. Look at how many times he says something along the lines of, "I think you are scum. I think you should be lynched." He didn't do this with Spinach or myself, who were two of the players he attacked prior to this.

Lastly, since the deadline is now less than one week away, it's fairly obvious that I am trying to find a consensus lynch. That's what you do when you're at a deadline. Since I think the most likely scum-pairing right now is Family-Mufasa, I'm fine with a lynch of either.

It would be a big red arrow for me if Mufasa turned up scum. With the deadline approaching, I suggest a lynch of Mufasa. When he turns up scum, we'll know that FK is probably his partner, and that's a great starting point. We have to be careful about this, though. Mislynch at this point, and we have a three town vs two scum situation.

I like this plan. Mufasa has been quite scummy and his link with Family is quite clear.

unvote, vote Mufasa

I find it interesting how quickly he jumps to the conclusion that F:K and Mufasa are scum, and in quick succession jumps back onto the Mufasa bandwagon when Gabe insinuates he'd be happy lynching Kostic if Mufasa winds up being scum. It just looks like he's stacking the dominoes and getting ready to knock them over. I also was one of the people thinking they were a valid prospect as a scum team, but that level of certainty was something I lacked.

One point is one I've already raised - hohum completely disregarded the fact that he was attacking Family:Kostic for something that Mufasa had already done, even after I raised the question after joining the game, further leading me to believe he was merely inattentive scum.

Gabe can go ahead and place the hammer, or if he disagrees, might as well work towards convincing me that I'm wrong.

[Gabe]

How can we be

completely

certain that either Walnut or qwints is in the mafia? After all, the only thing we have to work with is the posts we make, and if two townies had made those same posts, they could very well both be innocent. It is possible to pull the 'I'm a cop' card if you really think somebody is scum, to narrow down the accusations to just you and your target.

So I'd like to ask a sort of final question: why is it certain that either Walnut or qwints is in the mafia?

[qwints]

Gabe, you obviously can't be completely certain.

@Kison, explicit breadcrumbing isn't useful and I don't do it:
1) nothing prevents scum from using it
2) it risks outing yourself as a pr to the scum.

I think my play shows that I was a cop and walnut/spinach have been scummy all game. If you want a pbpa, I can provide one.

[Kison]

I think my play shows that I was a cop and walnut/spinach have been scummy all game. If you want a pbpa, I can provide one.

Unless Gabe outright refuses to let a lynch occur, you can't win unless I move my vote. You have no reason not to try to convince me that Walnut is scum, or give me probable reason to believe you're not.

So I'd like to ask a sort of final question: why is it certain that either Walnut or qwints is in the mafia?

Nothing is 100%. A perfect example of why is our dear friend Seamus2008. However, I think it's safe to assume that neither qwints nor Walnut are playing against their win conditions at this point, which leaves the two following scenarios:

1) qwints is telling the truth and is indeed the cop. Result: Walnut is scum.
2) qwints is lying. Since lying would be an absurd move for a townie to make at this point, the probable outcome of this would be qwints being Mafia.

[Gabe]

1) qwints is telling the truth and is indeed the cop. Result: Walnut is scum.
2) qwints is lying. Since lying would be an absurd move for a townie to make at this point, the probable outcome of this would be qwints being Mafia.

Yeah, I got that much. I was just unclear as to why everybody was so sure.

And... well, I don't know who I think is scum. Rereading now, testing both scenarios. My decision will be up tonight.

[Gabe]

Well, I'm done, and I've made a decision. I'm going to go ahead and

Vote: qwints.

Cross your fingers and close your eyes, because that's lynch.

[Walnut]

I'll leave it to the mod...

[qwints]

I'll end the suspense.... congrats Walnut, gabe and kison [and other townies.]
FTR, I never communicated with mufasa and I had a tough time trying to get out of the whole hohum left me in.

[farside22]

Vote count:

Walnut 1 vote: (qwints)
qwints 3 vote: (Walnut, Gabe, Kison)

With 4 players it will take 3 to lynch

The 3 players point to qwints. They do not believe his cop claim and after kison points to the play of hohum/mufusa the Gabe hammers the vote home.
Did the players make the right choice.
The mod is quiet as she takes qwints to the noose.
"I'm not going to say what you did. You will find out soon enough."

The noose snaps and the card falls to the ground.

.....

.....


......


.....

Finally a gun falls to the ground.
Sure enough the card reads

MAFIA GOON

Congrats town wins!

[farside22]

Good effort from qwints fake claiming cop.
There was no cop this game. You had 2 goons, 1 doctor and 6 townies.
I always like to see the town figure things out without a cop help. This creates a very even playing field I feel for both parties.
Good job catching the last scum

Sorry to Mufusa. It was not something I wanted to do but Vel fells that is teaches a lesson in what not to do for newbies. Playing by the rules is what matter as well as winning the game.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Good effort from qwints fake claiming cop.
There was no cop this game. You had 2 goons, 1 doctor and 6 townies.
I always like to see the town figure things out without a cop help. This creates a very even playing field I feel for both parties.
Good job catching the last scum

Sorry to Mufusa. It was not something I wanted to do but Vel fells that is teaches a lesson in what not to do for newbies. Playing by the rules is what matter as well as winning the game.

For the record, I suggested the Modkill course of action for two reasons. Yes this is a semi-open setup and the role PMs are available on the first page.

But, this is a teaching game. There are very few games on this site where you are allowed to "quote" communication from the Mod. This is a bad message to send to the Newbie players. The second reason was that farside had put in her rules set that any real or faked Mod communication is a mod-killable offense.

It's up to farside if she wants to change that for the rest of her games that start at a later date. But, in keeping with the fact that quoting Mod communication is, 95% of the time, a Mod-killable offense I would suggest that she not allow people to do so in her Newbie games. I'm not going to regulate every Newbie game, but she asked so I gave my thoughts on the matter. If anyone wants to discuss this further give me a shout.

And I never did check this game yesterday. Sorry about letting the lynch go

Vel

[Gabe]

Woo! Yeah!
That was awesome! At the beginning of the last day, I was almost sure that qwints was the cop, but it turned out way different.
I hope every online Mafia game is this fun, and I'd gladly play in a game with any of you guys again (except our dear friend Seamus, perhaps).

[farside22]

Good effort from qwints fake claiming cop.
There was no cop this game. You had 2 goons, 1 doctor and 6 townies.
I always like to see the town figure things out without a cop help. This creates a very even playing field I feel for both parties.
Good job catching the last scum

Sorry to Mufusa. It was not something I wanted to do but Vel fells that is teaches a lesson in what not to do for newbies. Playing by the rules is what matter as well as winning the game.

For the record, I suggested the Modkill course of action for two reasons. Yes this is a semi-open setup and the role PMs are available on the first page.

But, this is a teaching game. There are very few games on this site where you are allowed to "quote" communication from the Mod. This is a bad message to send to the Newbie players. The second reason was that farside had put in her rules set that any real or faked Mod communication is a mod-killable offense.

It's up to farside if she wants to change that for the rest of her games that start at a later date. But, in keeping with the fact that quoting Mod communication is, 95% of the time, a Mod-killable offense I would suggest that she not allow people to do so in her Newbie games. I'm not going to regulate every Newbie game, but she asked so I gave my thoughts on the matter. If anyone wants to discuss this further give me a shout.

And I never did check this game yesterday. Sorry about letting the lynch go

Vel

I understood it's something I'm going to change later as mod killing is really something I don't do unless under extreme reasons.

[Mufasa]

Thanks for a good game, Qwints I really was hoping we had a chance to talk before we had to throw eachother under the bus well see you all around

[Kison]

Good game everyone!

I had a lot of fun with this game, and think there is a lot of potential with this batch of players. So I hope to see you folks elsewhere on the site.

At the beginning of the last day, I was almost sure that qwints was the cop, but it turned out way different.

I was leaning towards believing him in the beginning, also, but the way Mufasa accused him looked very insincere. It was probably the strongest point against him.

[Bladewing Vorox]

Good game everyone. I wasn't really surprised that qwints turned out to be the mafia because I have suspected him before.

I may not have been very active and I made some errors (for example : my vote against Gabe, my claim at L-2 and me saying that I was surprised that there weren't any votes against me at Day 1) but it was fun and I hope I'll have the chance to play with any of you (except Seamus).

[Family:Kostic]

Great stuff guys, I still can't believe I held Mufasa as innocent in my mind for so long. I suppose it got to the point where everything he did was wrong and i was ignorant to the fact.

Hohum/Quints was always guilty for me, especially after I evaluated his game play and voting patterns. It was just clear as day from that point.

Also, after my lynch I spotted things that made it even more obvious, that Walnut missed. Obviously was unable to post though, haha.

Walnut did very well at the end though imo, especially as a replacement.
Qwints did as well as he could to defend himself but Hohum left way too much of a mess.
Gabe & BV both did well as townies. Gabe accounted for him self brilliantly when required and in hindsite BV did a good thing to claim when he did as it was effectlvely a form of 'taking one for the team'.
Kison was also brilliant when he came in, did very well to set a clear town authority and set things in motion, as Neko did before he had to leave.
Mufasa, you pretty much had me fooled as I said. Well done there but others spotted you like a clown in a bank. Thing you better change your approach to games in the future lol.
Bronco, sorry for the feud we had early in the game. It was a win to us anyway, so good luck for future games.

Heres to winning the next game for us all aye!

[Walnut]

Heh, I certainly would believe that I missed stuff I started out all ambitious in my analysis but ran out of time and energy. I am amused to read that Gabe and Kison's suspicions of qwints had little (nothing?) to do with what I had written, and more to do their own analysis; well done you guys.

It was a wild game, with Seamus doing his thing and Mufasa being modkilled. I thought Mufasa had done well to play the "I am just a hyper kid" persona and have most of the town at one time or another thinking it was his playstyle rather than any scumminess. qwints came pretty close to pulling it off, and if he had been instrumental in lynching Mufasa rather than Mufasa being modkilled it might have given him enough town brownie points to get through. I thought his tone was well-judged for the audience. One thing I worried about slightly is that qwints might have attacked me for the Family:Kostic hammer and there was a risk that Gabe and Kison might have gone for that. Did that cross your mind qwints?

Big congrats to FK and BV- a good example of a game where you died but definitely contributed to the town win. The early doc claim was really a mistake, but it lured Hohum into some suspicious behaviour, took BV off everyone's suspicion lists, and almost forced them to night kill BV. FK did most of the hardwork for the case on Hohum/qwints, and in being lynched and revealing town gave more legitimacy to his case. Broncofaninmd did the good job of looking sharp enough on Day 1 that there is reason to kill him instead of others, which in this case worked out.

Lastly, a round of applause for Farside- modding seems like hard work, and especially when you are forced to make a ruling on a tough situation.

[farside22]

Lastly, a round of applause for Farside- modding seems like hard work, and especially when you are forced to make a ruling on a tough situation.

Thank you. Thank you.
*bows
I enjoy modding for the most part. Hope I didnt' get to hard on the prods. I like to see games active so I prod without asking most time.
Great job by all parties!

[qwints]

@walnut, I was actually hoping that gabe or kison would jump on the hammer for my claim making sense.