Mini 761 - Game Over

[alexhans]

What are the flaws in my case of Panzer in your own opinion?

The thing about me pleasing Jazz is bull, and you know it and everyone should now it. I thought someone could note it and try to accuse me but never thought it would be taken seriously. It's totally null.

here's 443, and I don't even know where to get started on that, other than the fact that you repeatedly say there's no case against you when there is and you... personally feel that 3 votes is enough pressure on you. (You don't get to decide.)

You don't know where to get started? start at the beginning... let's see what you can try to invent... I don't see a case against me. No. Ryan made a couple of gut calls regarding what I said and you, lester and him pretend that I have inside information when lester and Panzer were the ones who said that it was an SK and didn't mention a vig... I've been vig in other sites and know that it is an option. But you're too blind to see that. I gave theories with alternatives at the start of the day but you ignore that too... Basically you just ignore everything I say and manufacture a case against me.

personally feel that 3 votes is enough pressure on you. (You don't get to decide.)

I feel like punching you. Is this fun? mocking me like that?

Panzer is not at L-1 anymore and he is pretty scummy for the reasons I've stated in 410 and NO ONE (but ryan in some parts) refuted any of them.

Vote Panzer

[Zachrulez]

So does my post 415 not exist anymore?

[alexhans]

OK. You're right. You said I had some decent points but failed to see that he was obv scum. I'm taking that you also don't find him likely scum. So... What's your read on him? What's your read on me?

[PJ.]

I think I'm gonna please Jazzmin here...

In my opinion, this is either poor judgement on what to write or very very obvious buddying and I’m upset no one who is nitpicking my play has picked up on this(I’m looking at you ryan).

Panzer came in and his first game post

Unvote: Vote:Steph

I'm with Amished on this one.

He accuses Steph of being scummy because of how he welcomed new players.

The reason is because she’s been sheepishly following anyone who is suspicious of those that are suspicious of her. She hasn’t added anything new or exciting to the thread. Also it was an oddly creepy way of buddying the way she welcomed us.

The next day he asks the mod:

X: can you please put the votes in chronological order. So we know who piled on where.

He seems to be too lazy to read the game to find out this and is looking for a reason to accusse others.

Techniquelly I did that in Twilight…How is expecting the mod to make the vote counts chronological lazy or scummy. Also as you previously mentioned, I was the one who hammered. Wouldn’t it be in a scum’s favor to be 5th on the vote count and hope that everyone forgot he hammered? My point is, vote counts are a QUICK reference. It’s quick summary of who is voting who and when they voted. There is a lot that you can do with a good vote count and it being in chronological order makes vote analysis much easier and quicker to do, as I’d only have to factor in a few quick vote changes that were missed on the vote counts. Simply, asking for the votes to be in chronological order is along the same lines as wanting the mod to put the the names of the people who are voting next to the person’s name who they are voting. The mod could have just put “Wall-E(7) that’s lynch” and then all of us would have to read the thread EVERY time we wanted to know who voted Wall-E. I don’t see how wanting vote counts to be the most correct and useful they can be as a scumhunting tool makes me lazy, or more importantly, scummy.

Also, Note how he calls me antitown but later in his post I mention how he won’t even go back through his post to find out what my post were referencing. I believe this would be pot-kettle

He nods Zach's response to a question asked to himself and Foses lester for scum-hunting. I'm willing to let this off my case because he argues it is part of his gameplay. We disagree but it may not be an indicative of scummyness.
However, note how he says "Why are you asking

me

specifically"... That may be viewed as a freudian slip from the guilty.

No, It’s wondering why MY opinion was more important to him then the other 8-9 people in the game. How is wanting to know why my opinion was more important to him then everyone else’s make me scummy? It could very well mean I’m a power role and he is a watcher/tracker of some sort.

Terribly scummy idea and only scum would benefit from doing such a thing.

This post is a response regarding 325 from lester but I don't find it scummy for the content but for the way in wich it quickly tries to pin another player as scum in such a matter of factly way when he had just expressed and idea.

It is a scummy idea so everyone who has that idea will be treated equally as scummy as Lester. Basically, agreed that it was scummy of lester but you wanted a double standard because you are scum and would benefit from this and thusly don’t want me to pin you as scum. This is very similar to when you told me I was too quick to say I’m not dropping tells. I was just defending myself. You are voting me for having an opinion you agree with but it being anti-scum.

Terribly scummy idea and only scum would benefit from doing such a thing.

This post is a response regarding 325 from lester but I don't find it scummy for the content but for the way in wich it quickly tries to pin another player as scum in such a matter of factly way when he had just expressed and idea.
The next post is the one where he claims to have answered all my questions...
my questions were(bolded ones are unanswered.):

Why can't lester investigate? Don't we all have to be curious?

Why is your vote on Steph obvious? Isn't it possible that Amished was killed to make Steph look scummy? Wouldn't it be a stupid move by Steph to kill Amished?

Also the kills are the only thing new. The alignment reveals are as well. Why no comment on why they picked Gateway and Amished?

Why do you think they picked them then? Any ideas?

and I gotta recognize I thought I had asked him a question in twilight wich in truth I didn't. I just quoted his null reason posts hammering Wall-e and pretended him to answer why he had done that. I would really like to know.

OK Unvote:Vote:Lester and FoS:Everyone else who is speculating about night Night speculation IS ANTITOWN. It's given mafia info which gives them room to plan their next attack and depending on who says what they could very clearly pick a good nightkill. Who killed who DOESN"T matter cause unless the other killing party claims their kills we'll never know who the kills were.

@Ash, this game is about criticizing and judging other people. If you don't like it and you would rather just speculate please switch your hobby to meteorology.

Anyway, Lester is definently by far the scummiest and Alexhans is not far behind. This is due to so openly wanting to give the scum information about what the town thinks about their night actions which is terribly scummy and the only motivation I can see behind that is self-congratulations

I don't see answers here. But a sudden attack at me. I was investigating him so he felt the need to retaliate. His reasons are weak and the self congratulation thing just sucks.

I obviously don’t need to suddenly attack you, I can do just fine blatantly attacking you, please try again.

[quote="Panzer]
You're still being purposely dense. Quoting takes too damn long and everytime I do it, I risk losing my post. I've probably lost a couple hundred pages of posts due to quoting.

You can do what I do... use Notepad. It's really easy and there's no risk of loosing anything.[/quote]
Notepad is unbearable but I did bust out Microsoft word for this post. It’s just a pain in the ass also I still maintain that it is unnecessary to use giant quote pyramids to get your point across.

You vote for Steph (obv), then after a quick exchange with lester you Fos and Vote him, then you say you're considering my vote because apparently im really anti-town. I don't see a pretty clear case against me... I see smoke.

When there is smoke, there is fire.

So...
@everyone: What do you think about my case on Panzer... Do you think is good? Do you think it's weak? Any comments on a given point?

This just plain reaks of asking for people give him a cookie for following suit and posting a very ragtag case on me. About a third of the game finds me scummy for things that aren’t tells. Look at Alex’s case. It’s just a bunch of things that are either easily explained in a pro-town fashion. He simply doesn’t like either A) my playstyle, B) who I’m accusing of being scum, or C)

On some of your exchange with, You seem to just be denying things that are clearly written by you early. You clearly stated that amished could be the vig kill which by association would mean the mafia didn’t kill amish. Saying otherwise is just silly nd floundering.

Zach has a point here... I'm suspecting jazz with that kind of statements.
I'm gonna

unvote

for now. Give time to Panzer to respond and to everyone to come and play. I want to know what DDD, lester and ryan think too

This translates to me as, “Oh, shit zach is starting to catch on, I’m gonna lay off Panzer for now so I can try to distance from jazz.”

My case on alex is that he seems to be trying to make people happy with his suspicions of me and he is trying to push a case that he truly doesn’t believe simply because it would be best for him as scum.

Now on to other posts that caught my eye.

I actually misread your post 425 at first, Zach.

I did, in fact, call Wall-E obv-scum from as soon as I replaced in. Did you forget the part where he subsequently admitted that he had, in fact, intentionally acted scummy? Guess what, it worked!

If you honestly cannot see how scummy Panzer's posts are, there is something very seriously wrong with your scumdar.

Regards,
Jazz

This is when you said you found me scummy for saying that Steph was obvious scum. That is why you are scummy. You are doing exactly what I did but calling me obv scum for it? Doesn’t that make you even more obvious scum?

I agree that Panzer's request for chronological votes is lazy, and a null tell to be honest.

ok

Unvote Vote:Alexhans

Don't worry this is a place holder. Also, don't worry the reasoning will have quotes for the dense that can't back track through the game to figure out what I'm talking about....

Placeholder? Why not make a susbtantial post with quotes (which is the smart pro-town thing to do, not just because people are dense), explaining the vote. What's wrong with waiting a few hours to cast the vote when you have time to write out a well thought post, rather than possibly giving scum an opportunity to quicklynch?

Simply I didn’t feel like making a substantial post at that point in time. They take time and I had other shit I wanted to do. Also if you believe that making substantial post is the only pro town way to play, you are sadly mistaken. And I’ve already explained why the chronological request was not lazy and actually pro-town.

I'm actually going to

Vote: Alexhans

too. His activities have been suspicious for a while now, and I'm going to post more about it in a little bit.

(sorry if this sounds too much like Panzer's post, lol)

Not only does it sound like Panzer's post (and I have the same problems with it)), but this is opportunism to the extreme. Trying to get a quick lynch?

FoS:Lester

for copying me

(that was a joke for those of you that don't understand those things)

Buddying maybe? I don't see why it wouldn't be serious - the opportunism is ridiculous.

I think that buddying bit is ridiculous. How is making a joke buddying? You and Jazz are the main culprits(along with alex hans trying to nitpick me to death with silly things) that I need the paranthesis. I still find lester mildly scummy but it has nothing to do with his post following my placeholder.

----

OH!, as I was about to post this I found some more stuff on alex I find worthy of my time(woohoo making my self sound important)

Ho ho ho... I see 3 votes against me... 1 is full of subjective reads and the others are not even explained. I can't believe it.

ok

Unvote Vote:Alexhans

Don't worry this is a place holder. Also, don't worry the reasoning will have quotes for the dense that can't back track through the game to figure out what I'm talking about....

I await your reasons.

I'm actually going to

Vote: Alexhans

too. His activities have been suspicious for a while now, and I'm going to post more about it in a little bit.

(sorry if this sounds too much like Panzer's post, lol)

Why vote on me and later give reasons? Why won't you do it in the same post? Waiting for somebody else to feed reasons for you?

You “patiently await” my reasons but you criticize Lester for placeholding when he has exams? That is just double standard and makes you reak of buddying me to make it like it’s ok. Also could possibly be distancing from Lester. Either way, it’s is very very scummy.

He continues to flounder to Ryan’s pressure on him.

Note: Ryan’s post reaks of bussing.

Alright 5+ pages in word and I’m basically sick of mafia for the moment. I’ll be back tomorrow.

[PJ.]

And that kids is why you don't trust microsoft word to get your tags right...I'm gonna let you guys try to comprehend that.

Note:for me prooving my point that quote tags suck and take too much time.

The second quote is exactly like the second and the first worked and none of the other ones did

[PJ.]

Sorry for the triple post but after going back and trying to find the problem. I can't the tags appear to be correct.

[alexhans]

Wouldn’t it be in a scum’s favor to be 5th on the vote count and hope that everyone forgot he hammered?

mmm... You may be right on that one.

No, It’s wondering why MY opinion was more important to him then the other 8-9 people in the game. How is wanting to know why my opinion was more important to him then everyone else’s make me scummy? It could very well mean I’m a power role and he is a watcher/tracker of some sort.

I didn't see it like that. I thought you acted rather jumpy. Trying to question him for asking you a question so you could have something on him.

It is a scummy idea so everyone who has that idea will be treated equally as scummy as Lester. Basically, agreed that it was scummy of lester but you wanted a double standard because you are scum and would benefit from this and thusly don’t want me to pin you as scum.

Here goes Panzer again saying I'm scum... he is sure of it. How can a town be sure of something, ever?

And it's really hard to understand your post with all that misquotes... You do know there's a preview tool right? or you prefer to leave it that way so it's so confusing?

I obviously don’t need to suddenly attack you, I can do just fine blatantly attacking you, please try again.

This is all you have to say? Ignoring yet AGAIN all the questions I bolded for you... dismissing what I say... You're pretty confident now that I'm at L-1 ey? But guess what? You can't hammer me... And hopefully people will realize the way I'm being accused and vote for people who are actually scummy, like you.

Notepad is unbearable

I love notepad! It's fast and simple. Great to code.

When there is smoke, there is fire.

Still you don't explain why you voted Steph.

This just plain reaks of asking for people give him a cookie for following suit and posting a very ragtag case on me. About a third of the game finds me scummy for things that aren’t tells. Look at Alex’s case. It’s just a bunch of things that are either easily explained in a pro-town fashion. He simply doesn’t like either A) my playstyle, B) who I’m accusing of being scum, or C)

You're right. I despise your playstyle but I'm pretty convinced that you're scum.

On some of your exchange with, You seem to just be denying things that are clearly written by you early. You clearly stated that amished could be the vig kill which by association would mean the mafia didn’t kill amish. Saying otherwise is just silly nd floundering.

When did I say otherwise? Read my F&$% Theories man! I stated lots of possibilities. YOu're the ones who said that Amished was obviously the mafia kill.

This translates to me as, “Oh, shit zach is starting to catch on, I’m gonna lay off Panzer for now so I can try to distance from jazz.”

Or maybe: Panzer is at L-1. I don't know who is scum for sure. Maybe Lester is scum. I prefer to get some more content before I make a mistake.

My case on alex is that he seems to be trying to make people happy with his suspicions of me and he is trying to push a case that he truly doesn’t believe simply because it would be best for him as scum.

Wow! great case! If I were scum I would do what you're doing... post less and try to lynch who is suspicious of me. Great! I was on your tail first and you felt threatened. That's why you said that you were suspicious of me and Lester but gave NO reasons. You can always make one up later, or even better, pick some up from others and say that you suspected me all along. That's kind of a just-in-case-OMGUS. How is good to vote and say you'll give reasons later? That's just trying to get another to do the same.

regarding your logic to attack jazz... That's you all over again attacking whoever raised questions on you.

I think that buddying bit is ridiculous. How is making a joke buddying?

Ahhh, so you dismiss the accusation on you as a joke but I use the Jazz pleased against me? How's that consistent?

OH!, as I was about to post this I found some more stuff on alex I find worthy of my time

You're obviously set on me and are looking for stuff to make me look bad. That's called manufacturing evidence and it is a strong Scum tell.

You “patiently await” my reasons but you criticize Lester for placeholding when he has exams? That is just double standard and makes you reak of buddying me to make it like it’s ok. Also could possibly be distancing from Lester. Either way, it’s is very very scummy.

Are you kidding me? This is such a big fat lie that it's amazing. You must be scum... I'm voting for you and you say that I'm trying to buddy you? it's incredible. And say that I have a double standard in the same post when I wrote the stuff one after the other? That's bullshit. Everything I write will seem very scummy to you, in fact, you'll try to make it look very scummy.

He continues to flounder to Ryan’s pressure on him.

How?

Note:for me prooving my point that quote tags suck and take too much time.

You probably did it on purpose because it's really easy to do the quotes manually and you can use the preview to see how it was.

I’ll be back tomorrow.

Hope you're not just escaping my answers after trying to get me lynched...

Everyone... read mine's and Panzer's posts in isolation and decide for yourselves who is scum. You should realize how much content I've written and how it all holds together, I answered the questions you asked me instead of dismissing them like panzer.

[Stephoscope]

No, It’s wondering why MY opinion was more important to him then the other 8-9 people in the game. How is wanting to know why my opinion was more important to him then everyone else’s make me scummy?

It could very well mean I’m a power role and he is a watcher/tracker of some sort.

(boldface mine)

"Speculating"

on one's own role when not even at L-1 anymore?!

Would a town power-role ever do this?

Would a regular townie ever do this?

Seriously?

[Zachrulez]

No, It’s wondering why MY opinion was more important to him then the other 8-9 people in the game. How is wanting to know why my opinion was more important to him then everyone else’s make me scummy?

It could very well mean I’m a power role and he is a watcher/tracker of some sort.

(boldface mine)

"Speculating"

on one's own role when not even at L-1 anymore?!

Would a town power-role ever do this?

Would a regular townie ever do this?

Seriously?

Good point...

Unvote:

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Sorry for the triple post but after going back and trying to find the problem. I can't the tags appear to be correct.

Word's default text uses slant quotes of the style ” instead of ". Since the forum software doesn't recognize ” as a double-quote it simply breaks the quote.

[alexhans]

Note that Panzer's really gone so his until tomorrow is true. His last post was the one in this game.

Wow... I was just looking in the mafia discussion and I found this:
Fastest game ever It was the newbie record... Cool wiki page says so: Wiki Records

Say hi to our friend. Notice his thoughts about hammering in the after game... Totally consistent with his hammer.

[PJ.]

I think I'm gonna please Jazzmin here...

In my opinion, this is either poor judgement on what to write or very very obvious buddying and I’m upset no one who is nitpicking my play has picked up on this(I’m looking at you ryan).

Panzer came in and his first game post

Unvote: Vote:Steph

I'm with Amished on this one.

He accuses Steph of being scummy because of how he welcomed new players.

The reason is because she’s been sheepishly following anyone who is suspicious of those that are suspicious of her. She hasn’t added anything new or exciting to the thread. Also it was an oddly creepy way of buddying the way she welcomed us.

The next day he asks the mod:

X: can you please put the votes in chronological order. So we know who piled on where.

He seems to be too lazy to read the game to find out this and is looking for a reason to accusse others.

Techniquelly I did that in Twilight…How is expecting the mod to make the vote counts chronological lazy or scummy. Also as you previously mentioned, I was the one who hammered. Wouldn’t it be in a scum’s favor to be 5th on the vote count and hope that everyone forgot he hammered? My point is, vote counts are a QUICK reference. It’s quick summary of who is voting who and when they voted. There is a lot that you can do with a good vote count and it being in chronological order makes vote analysis much easier and quicker to do, as I’d only have to factor in a few quick vote changes that were missed on the vote counts. Simply, asking for the votes to be in chronological order is along the same lines as wanting the mod to put the the names of the people who are voting next to the person’s name who they are voting. The mod could have just put “Wall-E(7) that’s lynch” and then all of us would have to read the thread EVERY time we wanted to know who voted Wall-E. I don’t see how wanting vote counts to be the most correct and useful they can be as a scumhunting tool makes me lazy, or more importantly, scummy.

Also, Note how he calls me antitown but later in his post I mention how he won’t even go back through his post to find out what my post were referencing. I believe this would be pot-kettle

He nods Zach's response to a question asked to himself and Foses lester for scum-hunting. I'm willing to let this off my case because he argues it is part of his gameplay. We disagree but it may not be an indicative of scummyness.
However, note how he says "Why are you asking

me

specifically"... That may be viewed as a freudian slip from the guilty.

No, It’s wondering why MY opinion was more important to him then the other 8-9 people in the game. How is wanting to know why my opinion was more important to him then everyone else’s make me scummy? It could very well mean I’m a power role and he is a watcher/tracker of some sort.

Terribly scummy idea and only scum would benefit from doing such a thing.

This post is a response regarding 325 from lester but I don't find it scummy for the content but for the way in wich it quickly tries to pin another player as scum in such a matter of factly way when he had just expressed and idea.

It is a scummy idea so everyone who has that idea will be treated equally as scummy as Lester. Basically, agreed that it was scummy of lester but you wanted a double standard because you are scum and would benefit from this and thusly don’t want me to pin you as scum. This is very similar to when you told me I was too quick to say I’m not dropping tells. I was just defending myself. You are voting me for having an opinion you agree with but it being anti-scum.

Terribly scummy idea and only scum would benefit from doing such a thing.

This post is a response regarding 325 from lester but I don't find it scummy for the content but for the way in wich it quickly tries to pin another player as scum in such a matter of factly way when he had just expressed and idea.
The next post is the one where he claims to have answered all my questions...
my questions were(bolded ones are unanswered.):

Why can't lester investigate? Don't we all have to be curious?

Why is your vote on Steph obvious? Isn't it possible that Amished was killed to make Steph look scummy? Wouldn't it be a stupid move by Steph to kill Amished?

Also the kills are the only thing new. The alignment reveals are as well. Why no comment on why they picked Gateway and Amished?

Why do you think they picked them then? Any ideas?

and I gotta recognize I thought I had asked him a question in twilight wich in truth I didn't. I just quoted his null reason posts hammering Wall-e and pretended him to answer why he had done that. I would really like to know.

OK Unvote:Vote:Lester and FoS:Everyone else who is speculating about night Night speculation IS ANTITOWN. It's given mafia info which gives them room to plan their next attack and depending on who says what they could very clearly pick a good nightkill. Who killed who DOESN"T matter cause unless the other killing party claims their kills we'll never know who the kills were.

@Ash, this game is about criticizing and judging other people. If you don't like it and you would rather just speculate please switch your hobby to meteorology.

Anyway, Lester is definently by far the scummiest and Alexhans is not far behind. This is due to so openly wanting to give the scum information about what the town thinks about their night actions which is terribly scummy and the only motivation I can see behind that is self-congratulations

I don't see answers here. But a sudden attack at me. I was investigating him so he felt the need to retaliate. His reasons are weak and the self congratulation thing just sucks.

I obviously don’t need to suddenly attack you, I can do just fine blatantly attacking you, please try again.

You're still being purposely dense. Quoting takes too damn long and everytime I do it, I risk losing my post. I've probably lost a couple hundred pages of posts due to quoting.

You can do what I do... use Notepad. It's really easy and there's no risk of loosing anything.

Notepad is unbearable but I did bust out Microsoft word for this post. It’s just a pain in the ass also I still maintain that it is unnecessary to use giant quote pyramids to get your point across.

You vote for Steph (obv), then after a quick exchange with lester you Fos and Vote him, then you say you're considering my vote because apparently im really anti-town. I don't see a pretty clear case against me... I see smoke.

When there is smoke, there is fire.

So...
@everyone: What do you think about my case on Panzer... Do you think is good? Do you think it's weak? Any comments on a given point?

This just plain reaks of asking for people give him a cookie for following suit and posting a very ragtag case on me. About a third of the game finds me scummy for things that aren’t tells. Look at Alex’s case. It’s just a bunch of things that are either easily explained in a pro-town fashion. He simply doesn’t like either A) my playstyle, B) who I’m accusing of being scum, or C)

On some of your exchange with, You seem to just be denying things that are clearly written by you early. You clearly stated that amished could be the vig kill which by association would mean the mafia didn’t kill amish. Saying otherwise is just silly nd floundering.

Zach has a point here... I'm suspecting jazz with that kind of statements.
I'm gonna

unvote

for now. Give time to Panzer to respond and to everyone to come and play. I want to know what DDD, lester and ryan think too

This translates to me as, “Oh, shit zach is starting to catch on, I’m gonna lay off Panzer for now so I can try to distance from jazz.”

My case on alex is that he seems to be trying to make people happy with his suspicions of me and he is trying to push a case that he truly doesn’t believe simply because it would be best for him as scum.

Now on to other posts that caught my eye.

I actually misread your post 425 at first, Zach.

I did, in fact, call Wall-E obv-scum from as soon as I replaced in. Did you forget the part where he subsequently admitted that he had, in fact, intentionally acted scummy? Guess what, it worked!

If you honestly cannot see how scummy Panzer's posts are, there is something very seriously wrong with your scumdar.

Regards,
Jazz

This is when you said you found me scummy for saying that Steph was obvious scum. That is why you are scummy. You are doing exactly what I did but calling me obv scum for it? Doesn’t that make you even more obvious scum?

I agree that Panzer's request for chronological votes is lazy, and a null tell to be honest.

ok

Unvote Vote:Alexhans

Don't worry this is a place holder. Also, don't worry the reasoning will have quotes for the dense that can't back track through the game to figure out what I'm talking about....

Placeholder? Why not make a susbtantial post with quotes (which is the smart pro-town thing to do, not just because people are dense), explaining the vote. What's wrong with waiting a few hours to cast the vote when you have time to write out a well thought post, rather than possibly giving scum an opportunity to quicklynch?

Simply I didn’t feel like making a substantial post at that point in time. They take time and I had other shit I wanted to do. Also if you believe that making substantial post is the only pro town way to play, you are sadly mistaken. And I’ve already explained why the chronological request was not lazy and actually pro-town.

I'm actually going to

Vote: Alexhans

too. His activities have been suspicious for a while now, and I'm going to post more about it in a little bit.

(sorry if this sounds too much like Panzer's post, lol)

Not only does it sound like Panzer's post (and I have the same problems with it)), but this is opportunism to the extreme. Trying to get a quick lynch?

FoS:Lester

for copying me

(that was a joke for those of you that don't understand those things)

Buddying maybe? I don't see why it wouldn't be serious - the opportunism is ridiculous.

I think that buddying bit is ridiculous. How is making a joke buddying? You and Jazz are the main culprits(along with alex hans trying to nitpick me to death with silly things) that I need the paranthesis. I still find lester mildly scummy but it has nothing to do with his post following my placeholder.

----

OH!, as I was about to post this I found some more stuff on alex I find worthy of my time(woohoo making my self sound important)

Ho ho ho... I see 3 votes against me... 1 is full of subjective reads and the others are not even explained. I can't believe it.

ok

Unvote Vote:Alexhans

Don't worry this is a place holder. Also, don't worry the reasoning will have quotes for the dense that can't back track through the game to figure out what I'm talking about....

I await your reasons.

I'm actually going to

Vote: Alexhans

too. His activities have been suspicious for a while now, and I'm going to post more about it in a little bit.

(sorry if this sounds too much like Panzer's post, lol)

Why vote on me and later give reasons? Why won't you do it in the same post? Waiting for somebody else to feed reasons for you?

You “patiently await” my reasons but you criticize Lester for placeholding when he has exams? That is just double standard and makes you reak of buddying me to make it like it’s ok. Also could possibly be distancing from Lester. Either way, it’s is very very scummy.

He continues to flounder to Ryan’s pressure on him.

Note: Ryan’s post reaks of bussing.

Alright 5+ pages in word and I’m basically sick of mafia for the moment. I’ll be back tomorrow.

Quoted post with correct tags, Thank you DDD

[alexhans]

weren't you... gone? until tomorrow?

[PJ.]

No, It’s wondering why MY opinion was more important to him then the other 8-9 people in the game. How is wanting to know why my opinion was more important to him then everyone else’s make me scummy?

It could very well mean I’m a power role and he is a watcher/tracker of some sort.

(boldface mine)

"Speculating"

on one's own role when not even at L-1 anymore?!

Would a town power-role ever do this?

Would a regular townie ever do this?

Seriously?

Way to take what I said completely out of context. I was simply stating it could mean that I'm not scum.

Wouldn’t it be in a scum’s favor to be 5th on the vote count and hope that everyone forgot he hammered?

mmm... You may be right on that one.

No, It’s wondering why MY opinion was more important to him then the other 8-9 people in the game. How is wanting to know why my opinion was more important to him then everyone else’s make me scummy? It could very well mean I’m a power role and he is a watcher/tracker of some sort.

I didn't see it like that. I thought you acted rather jumpy. Trying to question him for asking you a question so you could have something on him.

It is a scummy idea so everyone who has that idea will be treated equally as scummy as Lester. Basically, agreed that it was scummy of lester but you wanted a double standard because you are scum and would benefit from this and thusly don’t want me to pin you as scum.

Here goes Panzer again saying I'm scum... he is sure of it. How can a town be sure of something, ever?

And it's really hard to understand your post with all that misquotes... You do know there's a preview tool right? or you prefer to leave it that way so it's so confusing?

I obviously don’t need to suddenly attack you, I can do just fine blatantly attacking you, please try again.

This is all you have to say? Ignoring yet AGAIN all the questions I bolded for you... dismissing what I say... You're pretty confident now that I'm at L-1 ey? But guess what? You can't hammer me... And hopefully people will realize the way I'm being accused and vote for people who are actually scummy, like you.

Notepad is unbearable

I love notepad! It's fast and simple. Great to code.

When there is smoke, there is fire.

Still you don't explain why you voted Steph.

This just plain reaks of asking for people give him a cookie for following suit and posting a very ragtag case on me. About a third of the game finds me scummy for things that aren’t tells. Look at Alex’s case. It’s just a bunch of things that are either easily explained in a pro-town fashion. He simply doesn’t like either A) my playstyle, B) who I’m accusing of being scum, or C)

You're right. I despise your playstyle but I'm pretty convinced that you're scum.

On some of your exchange with, You seem to just be denying things that are clearly written by you early. You clearly stated that amished could be the vig kill which by association would mean the mafia didn’t kill amish. Saying otherwise is just silly nd floundering.

When did I say otherwise? Read my F&$% Theories man! I stated lots of possibilities. YOu're the ones who said that Amished was obviously the mafia kill.

This translates to me as, “Oh, shit zach is starting to catch on, I’m gonna lay off Panzer for now so I can try to distance from jazz.”

Or maybe: Panzer is at L-1. I don't know who is scum for sure. Maybe Lester is scum. I prefer to get some more content before I make a mistake.

My case on alex is that he seems to be trying to make people happy with his suspicions of me and he is trying to push a case that he truly doesn’t believe simply because it would be best for him as scum.

Wow! great case! If I were scum I would do what you're doing... post less and try to lynch who is suspicious of me. Great! I was on your tail first and you felt threatened. That's why you said that you were suspicious of me and Lester but gave NO reasons. You can always make one up later, or even better, pick some up from others and say that you suspected me all along. That's kind of a just-in-case-OMGUS. How is good to vote and say you'll give reasons later? That's just trying to get another to do the same.

regarding your logic to attack jazz... That's you all over again attacking whoever raised questions on you.

I think that buddying bit is ridiculous. How is making a joke buddying?

Ahhh, so you dismiss the accusation on you as a joke but I use the Jazz pleased against me? How's that consistent?

OH!, as I was about to post this I found some more stuff on alex I find worthy of my time

You're obviously set on me and are looking for stuff to make me look bad. That's called manufacturing evidence and it is a strong Scum tell.

You “patiently await” my reasons but you criticize Lester for placeholding when he has exams? That is just double standard and makes you reak of buddying me to make it like it’s ok. Also could possibly be distancing from Lester. Either way, it’s is very very scummy.

Are you kidding me? This is such a big fat lie that it's amazing. You must be scum... I'm voting for you and you say that I'm trying to buddy you? it's incredible. And say that I have a double standard in the same post when I wrote the stuff one after the other? That's bullshit. Everything I write will seem very scummy to you, in fact, you'll try to make it look very scummy.

He continues to flounder to Ryan’s pressure on him.

How?

Note:for me prooving my point that quote tags suck and take too much time.

You probably did it on purpose because it's really easy to do the quotes manually and you can use the preview to see how it was.

I’ll be back tomorrow.

Hope you're not just escaping my answers after trying to get me lynched...

Everyone... read mine's and Panzer's posts in isolation and decide for yourselves who is scum. You should realize how much content I've written and how it all holds together, I answered the questions you asked me instead of dismissing them like panzer.

1. I know I’m right
2. I believe you accused me of doing exactly what you did with this(manufacturing evidence)
3. And of course I’m sure your scum, it’s called confidence. Ya, I did preview, I posted it anyway. Cause I thought the preview broke.
4. Flounder Flounder Flounder, also I didn’t see any questions. On top of that it is petty to bitch about questions when I addressed your huge post point by point and I’m doing so again.
5. well obviously you’re right.
6. I did read the very first thing I write in my long post.
7. Nah, I’m not scum, but way contradict yourself,
8. I did read them, You clearly said Amished could be the vig kill.
9. You weren’t the first on my wagon. I did give reasons, it was that whole night speculation thing.
10. No, big difference. I was like haha you copied me. You were like HEY JAZZ LOOK WHAT I DID!!! *giggle giggle*
11. No I read your last post after I’d finished your bit.
12. How is this a lie? You contradicted yourself flat out.
13. By giving shitty nonsensical answers, kinda like you did with this post(the one I’m currently destroying)
14. I thought I was gonna be gone, went to Jiu-jitsu and had plans with friends but it didn’t quite work out. I may or may not check it until tomorrow. Also it’s not like you’d be lynched before tomorrow anyway.

Everyone... read mine's and Panzer's posts in isolation and decide for yourselves who is scum. You should realize how much content I've written and how it all holds together, I answered the questions you asked me instead of dismissing them like panzer.

Considering your scum which is normally a fourth of the game, and a fourth of the game has died. That would currently make the scum a third of the game. So that’s you plus 2 if this game runs the average 3 scum set up, takes 5 to lynch..and 4 people had me pegged as scum. So in essence you’re attempting to convince one person with this terrible appeal to emotion. =)

[PJ.]

weren't you... gone? until tomorrow?

See 14.

[alexhans]

Again you post in a hard way to follow and answer... It's really messy. You could've taken your time if you were gonna come tomorrow... worried that Zach unvoted? yours is a set of numbered sentences where you say.
1) you're wrong
2) You're scum
3) No, Im town, you're scum
4) insult insult, you're scum
etc etc.

Nah, I’m not scum, but way contradict yourself,

How?

8. I did read them, You clearly said Amished could be the vig kill.

Yes! I did. How does that make me scummy? How does it imply I have inside info?

10. No, big difference. I was like haha you copied me. You were like HEY JAZZ LOOK WHAT I DID!!! *giggle giggle*

Serious man... you are gonna give a subjective answer to everything I say.

You weren’t the first on my wagon. I did give reasons, it was that whole night speculation thing.

I suspected you in twilight, and said it.

13. By giving shitty nonsensical answers, kinda like you did with this post(the one I’m currently destroying)

destroying?? lol. You post a couple of lines and call me scum and you think you destroy the validity of my posts? I give reasons, I make them clear for town, I don't try to confuse everyone and I'm not overly agressive.

How is this a lie? You contradicted yourself flat out.

How? When are you gonna support your accusations with explanations?

I thought I was gonna be gone, went to Jiu-jitsu and had plans with friends but it didn’t quite work out. I may or may not check it until tomorrow. Also it’s not like you’d be lynched before tomorrow anyway.

right, It's cool you make jiu-jitsu, it can be pretty useful for MMA right? remember, I know about you, we've played together... this isn't normal town you. This is something else. I don't plan on getting lynched, ever.

Considering your scum which is normally a fourth of the game, and a fourth of the game has died. That would currently make the scum a third of the game. So that’s you plus 2 if this game runs the average 3 scum set up, takes 5 to lynch..and 4 people had me pegged as scum. So in essence you’re attempting to convince one person with this terrible appeal to emotion. =)

definition Appeal to Emotion: What scum tries to use when they don't know what else to make up to lynch an innocent person. there could be 2 scum and one SK or 2 scum and a vig, or 2 scum a vig and sk (one of them blocked)... so you're guessing too much.

[ryan2754]

@Alex: I still can't understand how you say there is no case against you.

@Lester: The buddying thing wasn't what I called opportunism. It was the vote right after Panzer. Not only did he not have a case, but you immediately jump the bandwagon, and also don't have a case. Wouldn't you not want to do that and actually form a case so it doesn't look so bad? That's what I found as opportunistic.

Do you have any thoughts on why you've been, in my opinion, under less scrutiny than any other living player?

Well, since it is the nature of the game to find scummy behavior, if I have been under less scrituny than others for the following reasons: I have been actively scumhunting, and my posts haven't been scummy . Sure my posts may not be short and frequent, but they hold valuable insight and are lengthy, and hold content.

Ho ho ho... I see 3 votes against me... 1 is full of subjective reads and the others are not even explained. I can't believe it.

ok

Unvote Vote:Alexhans

Don't worry this is a place holder. Also, don't worry the reasoning will have quotes for the dense that can't back track through the game to figure out what I'm talking about....

I await your reasons.

I'm actually going to

Vote: Alexhans

too. His activities have been suspicious for a while now, and I'm going to post more about it in a little bit.

(sorry if this sounds too much like Panzer's post, lol)

Why vote on me and later give reasons? Why won't you do it in the same post? Waiting for somebody else to feed reasons for you?

I have yet to see a point against Panz that makes me think he's scum.

That's all your response to my Panzer post (410)?

Another thing... those who want to fall down on Jazz for the push in Panzer's lynch should have the same reasons to fall on Zach for the Cheerleading to the Amished lynch. I find both a null-tell.

Zach makes a good point here. We seem to have gone away from looking at the different sides of the question, and alex seems to have inside knowledge as well.

How do I have inside knowledge man? They mention only SKs so I'm obliged to tell them there may be a vig. And I guessed what I thought could happen.

or maybe there is a vig... And he chose to shoot. Why the Amished kill? He had been in the spotlight with his scum-hunt too much and persecution of Steph.... 2 mafia night kills is not likely at all.

I just can't see why this gives you the impression I have inside knowledge... I can't see it.

I also don't like this from Alex: So...
@everyone: What do you think about my case on Panzer... Do you think is good? Do you think it's weak? Any comments on a given point?

If people think your case is weak, they will attack it. If they find it sufficient, people will vote for Panzer. The fact that this sort of argument is coming at L-1 is interesting, as if he's trying to get the hammer by finalizing a thought or two that may be extremely weak (which Zach said so). It seems as though through asking people about your case you are doing it in a mood to keep the criticism away from you, and use such knowledge to your advanatage (when people reply).

No... DDD thought there was nothing on Panzer and didn't attack it, before your post. I wanted to know if the others felt confortable with that lynch because it can give me info on possible scumteams. I wasn't trying to get the hammer. I'm pretty suspiciuous of Panzer and think he is very likely scum but then realized that if he was not and lester was he might just hammer so I unvoted.

Post 419: Alex defends against Zach's attack. Sure, you may be giving out possible options, but include ALL possible options

Be my guest. Include the options you think I missed, include ALL of them. Also, read my posts in isolation and you will find that I gave theories to what I thought may have happened and no one gave any notice.

Also... you realize that I didn't need to say the "im gonna please jazzmin" thing? And you want to give ulterior motives to that? That's bull. Anti town? That is anti town????!!! I don't know what is happening here... I thought you were coherent ryan.

Of course you aren't going to agree with them, because the case is made against you. Of course you are going to go against them. There seems to be a defeatist attitude in this last post, but I don't know what to make of it.

it's defeatist because I can't understand how I'm suddenly attacked when I haven't done anything scummy. I just laid my case on Panzer and it was practically ignored and instead they started attacking me... Without giving any more reasons than things they could find in that post 410. You all realize that 3 people have suddenly made a case on me with only one post in wich i was voting someone? It is weaker than weak.

Opportunism, trying to buddy up with Zach after their differences. Seems to me he may be waiting for someone else to vote Jazz. Unvotes Panzer, and says "to give him time." Interesting, considering when he was at L-1 and you were exchanging with Zach, that didnt seem to bother you, but now, once conversation is shifting from Zach and you (to Jazz), you unvote. Interesting behavior.

Do you think so??? When I've decided my votes taking into account what others did? I don't care. If I have to vote someone who doesn't have any votes because I find them scummy I will. And I can't agree with anyone that attacks me now? What logic is that? I told you. I realized that Lester was still not voting and had a sudden fear that he might be scum and panzer town and wanted to see more talk before any lynch happened. How long was Panzer at l-1? You're just streching so hard that you might break, dude. You have got it so wrong. Imagine if you were in my situation, you WOULD be angry to see all conversation wreck into a manufactured case.

Not only does it sound like Panzer's post (and I have the same problems with it)), but this is opportunism to the extreme. Trying to get a quick lynch?

If he is you're definetly helping him... Do you think I need more pressure? I think I'm pressured enough.

Jazz for fencesitting/scum pairing, Lester for extreme opportunism, Panzer for posting patterns/placeholder vote, and Alexhans for opportunism/buddying/inside knowledge

This is stretch... you're ignoring all the game but focusing in the last posts of everybody. You suddenly decided to come out and play agressive? I'm buddying!!! FOR GOD'S SAKE. I hate of being accused of that. I wouldn't buddy even if were scum! It's stupid. I see logical points I note them.

Vote: AlexHans

His posts reek of inside knowledge, and his switch away from Panzer after his argument at L-1 didn't catch on is very scummy.

reek of inside knowledge???!!! I can't believe it...

Except for you, ryan2754. And you're telling me *I'm* flying under the radar?

I have been thinking along the same lines but as liked one post you did recently I had a town-read on you. Now I'm not sure if YOU are opportunistic or just incredibly wrong.

I don't understand this massive shift toward alexhans at all. I hope some explanation is forthcoming.

If you don't understand it imagine myself.

Nothing compelling, that is nothing I couldn't see a pro-town player doing or saying.

Did you even read my post?

I was busy with exams, wanted to get my vote in after reading over some things and noticed that Panzer had placed the same vote above mine. Doesn't mean I'm not going to vote the way I wanted to. And the second part about buddying ... talk about opportunism. Turning one tiny joke into an argument? Please.

Panzar Votes me: Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:50 pm
Lester Votes me: Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:27 am (you may have different GMT than me but the interval is the same. I'm GMT-3)
wow... really close votes... He didn't have time to think... he simul posted... wrong.

Anyway, regarding AlexHans, I found while reading his posts that he seemed to have a scattershot way of attacking people and then latching on to whichever sticks with others.

That's your case? You had to vote before laying that long case? give me examples of that things you accuse me of please.

Also, his insistent statement that Amished was the Vig/SK kill seemed odd to me and his back-track wasn't very good. It could be that he IS the Vig/SK, which we don't need to focus on right now(because they have a chance of getting scum too) but scum would have the same info.

Ahhh... You suddenly mention this when you haven't ever mentioned it before... I NEVER insisted that AMISHED WAS the Vig/SK kill. I insisted that AMISHED WASN'T NECESSARILLY the mafia kill as panzer implied. And It's funny that you give the possibility of me being a vig but wan't to lynch me anyway because it would give info to scum if I were vig. Nice way to mislynch and not get the heat. Is everyone reading this??? It's insane how I'm being attacked.

Now I'm really lost. I note that I have a bad tendency of being suspicious of who attacks me because as I know I'm town I don't see why they should attack me... Especially now that I think there is absolutely no case against me... I'm getting paranoid.

And where is Panzer? where's his reasoning? I'm guessing he will just nod on the cases that Lester or ryan try to make.

@Zach: Nothing for the reasoning of the vote, accept that he's "not under enough pressure? Wow, just wow. ALready know how I feel about pressure.

Ok...

There was that portion I quoted from 329.

There was your case against Panzer which was anything but solid that put him at lynch -1, in addition to a comment thrown in there at the start about pleasing Jazz.

There's 443, and I don't even know where to get started on that, other than the fact that you repeatedly say there's no case against you when there is and you... personally feel that 3 votes is enough pressure on you. (You don't get to decide.)

Well you don't to get to decide either. That's why I hate pressure voting. People think it's a set guideline, and it's not, which gives it no weigh whatsoever. I agree there is a case, and I already said how I feel about your case on Panzer. So in essence, I agree with Zach's summary except for the Jazz comment being scummy and the whole pressure thing.

You don't know where to get started? start at the beginning... let's see what you can try to invent... I don't see a case against me. No. Ryan made a couple of gut calls regarding what I said and you, lester and him pretend that I have inside information when lester and Panzer were the ones who said that it was an SK and didn't mention a vig... I've been vig in other sites and know that it is an option. But you're too blind to see that. I gave theories with alternatives at the start of the day but you ignore that too... Basically you just ignore everything I say and manufacture a case against me.

Again, adequate defence. Already said what I feel about this response above.

[ryan2754]

EBWOP: Meant to hit Preview, not submit. The whole quote tree sucks, but I beleive it is fixed in this post, so ignore the above.
@Alex: I still can't understand how you say there is no case against you. Sure, three of the four votes on you are unwarranted as of now, but I don't think mine is. Don't get so bent out of shape. Defense is necessary, but the attitude that has come with it is unnecessary. I understand your surprised and astonished by the whole wagon, but your best way to deal with it is defend without the attitude. Just calm down.

@Lester: The buddying thing wasn't what I called opportunism. It was the vote right after Panzer. Not only did he not have a case, but you immediately jump the bandwagon, and also don't have a case. Wouldn't you not want to do that and actually form a case so it doesn't look so bad? That's what I found as opportunistic.

Do you have any thoughts on why you've been, in my opinion, under less scrutiny than any other living player?

Well, since it is the nature of the game to find scummy behavior, if I have been under less scrituny than others for the following reasons: I have been actively scumhunting, and my posts haven't been scummy . Sure my posts may not be short and frequent, but they hold valuable insight and are lengthy, and hold content.

Ho ho ho... I see 3 votes against me... 1 is full of subjective reads and the others are not even explained. I can't believe it.

Subjective reads is what this game is about. In a sense, almost all cases are made out of subjective reads. It's what people use to scumhunt: make some cases, and see how people respond. It is the essence of the game, considering the only objective knowledge we get is confirmed roles, and voting patterns. And right now, the sample size is small.

I'm actually going to

Vote: Alexhans

too. His activities have been suspicious for a while now, and I'm going to post more about it in a little bit.

(sorry if this sounds too much like Panzer's post, lol)

Why vote on me and later give reasons? Why won't you do it in the same post? Waiting for somebody else to feed reasons for you?

I already said I agree with this.

I have yet to see a point against Panz that makes me think he's scum.

That's all your response to my Panzer post (410)?

Again, I already said how I feel about this, and agree. Use quotes, and derail his points rather than just stating he can't.

Another thing... those who want to fall down on Jazz for the push in Panzer's lynch should have the same reasons to fall on Zach for the Cheerleading to the Amished lynch. I find both a null-tell.

Again, I already said how I feel about in and of itself starting a wagon/defending/attacking is a null tell, but we need to look at the circumstances and degree.

Zach makes a good point here. We seem to have gone away from looking at the different sides of the question, and alex seems to have inside knowledge as well.

How do I have inside knowledge man? They mention only SKs so I'm obliged to tell them there may be a vig. And I guessed what I thought could happen.

After re-reading the exchange, I see where you were coming from, posting that response. The issue I have with it is the hint of "knowing" that that is the truth.

I also don't like this from Alex: So...
@everyone: What do you think about my case on Panzer... Do you think is good? Do you think it's weak? Any comments on a given point?

If people think your case is weak, they will attack it. If they find it sufficient, people will vote for Panzer. The fact that this sort of argument is coming at L-1 is interesting, as if he's trying to get the hammer by finalizing a thought or two that may be extremely weak (which Zach said so). It seems as though through asking people about your case you are doing it in a mood to keep the criticism away from you, and use such knowledge to your advanatage (when people reply).

No... DDD thought there was nothing on Panzer and didn't attack it, before your post. I wanted to know if the others felt confortable with that lynch because it can give me info on possible scumteams. I wasn't trying to get the hammer. I'm pretty suspiciuous of Panzer and think he is very likely scum but then realized that if he was not and lester was he might just hammer so I unvoted.

Whatever your motive was, I don't like it. I already sai d how I feel about taggin scumteams. Look at it this way. If you are scum, of course you won't say you were trying for a hammer. If town, even if it wasn't, we don't know. Thus, you saying this is a null tell.

Also... you realize that I didn't need to say the "im gonna please jazzmin" thing? And you want to give ulterior motives to that? That's bull. Anti town? That is anti town????!!! I don't know what is happening here... I thought you were coherent ryan.

Being scummy is not what I said. I said it was anti-town. Whether your role, saying something like that is a bad idea, IMO. Not to mention you said you were looking for scumpairs.

Of course you aren't going to agree with them, because the case is made against you. Of course you are going to go against them. There seems to be a defeatist attitude in this last post, but I don't know what to make of it.

it's defeatist because I can't understand how I'm suddenly attacked when I haven't done anything scummy. I just laid my case on Panzer and it was practically ignored and instead they started attacking me... Without giving any more reasons than things they could find in that post 410. You all realize that 3 people have suddenly made a case on me with only one post in wich i was voting someone? It is weaker than weak.

If you haven't noticed, I was the only one that looked at your case in depth. I just didn't like the timing of it and see it as a motive to hammer home a lynch.

Opportunism, trying to buddy up with Zach after their differences. Seems to me he may be waiting for someone else to vote Jazz. Unvotes Panzer, and says "to give him time." Interesting, considering when he was at L-1 and you were exchanging with Zach, that didnt seem to bother you, but now, once conversation is shifting from Zach and you (to Jazz), you unvote. Interesting behavior.

Do you think so??? When I've decided my votes taking into account what others did? I don't care. If I have to vote someone who doesn't have any votes because I find them scummy I will. And I can't agree with anyone that attacks me now? What logic is that? I told you. I realized that Lester was still not voting and had a sudden fear that he might be scum and panzer town and wanted to see more talk before any lynch happened. How long was Panzer at l-1? You're just streching so hard that you might break, dude. You have got it so wrong. Imagine if you were in my situation, you WOULD be angry to see all conversation wreck into a manufactured case.

It's not a manufactured case. Oh, and I understand you vote for yourself, I do, because as citizens that's what we have to our disposal: the best thing, a vote. I still see it as interesting behavior.

Not only does it sound like Panzer's post (and I have the same problems with it)), but this is opportunism to the extreme. Trying to get a quick lynch?

If he is you're definetly helping him... Do you think I need more pressure? I think I'm pressured enough.

I already don't like the concept of a pressure vote. What does it mean. It's a waste of what we have to our disposal, and pressure is arbitrary. No, I don't think I am helping him. I made a case against you, where they blindly voted. It will make people look more intensely at the argument and decide, rather than blindly follow. Thus, I am in my opinion, helping you, by giving you more time.

Jazz for fencesitting/scum pairing, Lester for extreme opportunism, Panzer for posting patterns/placeholder vote, and Alexhans for opportunism/buddying/inside knowledge

This is stretch... you're ignoring all the game but focusing in the last posts of everybody. You suddenly decided to come out and play agressive? I'm buddying!!! FOR GOD'S SAKE. I hate of being accused of that. I wouldn't buddy even if were scum! It's stupid. I see logical points I note them.

Ok, well, when I post, I respond to the posts that are new. After I post, when I go to post again, I look strictly at the posts since my last posting, trying to address those. I then go back and look at what I have addressed and put it all together. So yes, my post is mainly on the new things brought to light. If you don't like it, I don't know what to say, but it's how I post.

Except for you, ryan2754. And you're telling me *I'm* flying under the radar?

I have been thinking along the same lines but as liked one post you did recently I had a town-read on you. Now I'm not sure if YOU are opportunistic or just incredibly wrong.

Is YOU, me?

I don't understand this massive shift toward alexhans at all. I hope some explanation is forthcoming.

If you don't understand it imagine myself.

I have given explanation. I'm sure this isn't geared towards me, but give what you don't udnerstand. Be more descriptive.

Nothing compelling, that is nothing I couldn't see a pro-town player doing or saying.

Did you even read my post?

Again, whether he read it or not, give reasoning as to what you don't find compelling. Break arguments down, don't just say you don't find them compelling.

I was busy with exams, wanted to get my vote in after reading over some things and noticed that Panzer had placed the same vote above mine. Doesn't mean I'm not going to vote the way I wanted to. And the second part about buddying ... talk about opportunism. Turning one tiny joke into an argument? Please.

Panzar Votes me: Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:50 pm
Lester Votes me: Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:27 am (you may have different GMT than me but the interval is the same. I'm GMT-3)
wow... really close votes... He didn't have time to think... he simul posted... wrong.

Poor excuse by Lester, and I agree with you, Alex.

Anyway, regarding AlexHans, I found while reading his posts that he seemed to have a scattershot way of attacking people and then latching on to whichever sticks with others.

That's your case? You had to vote before laying that long case? give me examples of that things you accuse me of please.

Agreed.

Also, his insistent statement that Amished was the Vig/SK kill seemed odd to me and his back-track wasn't very good. It could be that he IS the Vig/SK, which we don't need to focus on right now(because they have a chance of getting scum too) but scum would have the same info.

Ahhh... You suddenly mention this when you haven't ever mentioned it before... I NEVER insisted that AMISHED WAS the Vig/SK kill. I insisted that AMISHED WASN'T NECESSARILLY the mafia kill as panzer implied. And It's funny that you give the possibility of me being a vig but wan't to lynch me anyway because it would give info to scum if I were vig. Nice way to mislynch and not get the heat. Is everyone reading this??? It's insane how I'm being attacked.

Adequate defense. Makes me raise an eyebrow further on Lester.

@Zach: Nothing for the reasoning of the vote, accept that he's "not under enough pressure? Wow, just wow. ALready know how I feel about pressure.

Ok...

There was that portion I quoted from 329.

There was your case against Panzer which was anything but solid that put him at lynch -1, in addition to a comment thrown in there at the start about pleasing Jazz.

There's 443, and I don't even know where to get started on that, other than the fact that you repeatedly say there's no case against you when there is and you... personally feel that 3 votes is enough pressure on you. (You don't get to decide.)

Well you don't to get to decide either. That's why I hate pressure voting. People think it's a set guideline, and it's not, which gives it no weigh whatsoever. I agree there is a case, and I already said how I feel about your case on Panzer. So in essence, I agree with Zach's summary except for the Jazz comment being scummy and the whole pressure thing.

You don't know where to get started? start at the beginning... let's see what you can try to invent... I don't see a case against me. No. Ryan made a couple of gut calls regarding what I said and you, lester and him pretend that I have inside information when lester and Panzer were the ones who said that it was an SK and didn't mention a vig... I've been vig in other sites and know that it is an option. But you're too blind to see that. I gave theories with alternatives at the start of the day but you ignore that too... Basically you just ignore everything I say and manufacture a case against me.

Again, adequate defence. Already said what I feel about this response above.

I think I'm gonna please Jazzmin here...

In my opinion, this is either poor judgement on what to write or very very obvious buddying and I’m upset no one who is nitpicking my play has picked up on this(I’m looking at you ryan).

Ugh, read above.

The next day he asks the mod:

X: can you please put the votes in chronological order. So we know who piled on where.

He seems to be too lazy to read the game to find out this and is looking for a reason to accusse others.

Techniquelly I did that in Twilight…How is expecting the mod to make the vote counts chronological lazy or scummy. Also as you previously mentioned, I was the one who hammered. Wouldn’t it be in a scum’s favor to be 5th on the vote count and hope that everyone forgot he hammered? My point is, vote counts are a QUICK reference. It’s quick summary of who is voting who and when they voted. There is a lot that you can do with a good vote count and it being in chronological order makes vote analysis much easier and quicker to do, as I’d only have to factor in a few quick vote changes that were missed on the vote counts. Simply, asking for the votes to be in chronological order is along the same lines as wanting the mod to put the the names of the people who are voting next to the person’s name who they are voting. The mod could have just put “Wall-E(7) that’s lynch” and then all of us would have to read the thread EVERY time we wanted to know who voted Wall-E. I don’t see how wanting vote counts to be the most correct and useful they can be as a scumhunting tool makes me lazy, or more importantly, scummy.

Really, you can't see how it is lazy? It's lazy because you can do it yourself. Don't make the mod do more work than he already has to.

Zach has a point here... I'm suspecting jazz with that kind of statements.
I'm gonna

unvote

for now. Give time to Panzer to respond and to everyone to come and play. I want to know what DDD, lester and ryan think too

This translates to me as, “Oh, shit zach is starting to catch on, I’m gonna lay off Panzer for now so I can try to distance from jazz.”

My case on alex is that he seems to be trying to make people happy with his suspicions of me and he is trying to push a case that he truly doesn’t believe simply because it would be best for him as scum.

I agree with the translation, but the next paragraph is a stretch.

Now on to other posts that caught my eye.

I actually misread your post 425 at first, Zach.

I did, in fact, call Wall-E obv-scum from as soon as I replaced in. Did you forget the part where he subsequently admitted that he had, in fact, intentionally acted scummy? Guess what, it worked!

If you honestly cannot see how scummy Panzer's posts are, there is something very seriously wrong with your scumdar.

Regards,
Jazz

This is when you said you found me scummy for saying that Steph was obvious scum. That is why you are scummy. You are doing exactly what I did but calling me obv scum for it? Doesn’t that make you even more obvious scum?

Makes sense. Good catch.

Simply I didn’t feel like making a substantial post at that point in time. They take time and I had other shit I wanted to do. Also if you believe that making substantial post is the only pro town way to play, you are sadly mistaken. And I’ve already explained why the chronological request was not lazy and actually pro-town.

Then don't post a vote with no reasoning, which is anti-town. I understand the need for a chronological request, but do it yourself. You a spreadsheet and everytime someone changes a vote, note it. Not that hard. Again, it's lazy, thinking the mod has more time than you.

@ Panzer: How does my post reek of bussing?

Alex responds fairly adequately. Panzer's post is filled with contradictions, and yet he responds saying alex is contradicting himself, and says he's scum, and doesn't address where alex finds the contradictions. He also says alex is giving non-sensical answers, despite alex's answers making much more sense than Panzer. He also does seem to be trying to completely add concocted information that is clearly contradictory to his posts.

@ Steph, good find.

Given the circumstances, I feel as though Alex has adequately defended himself. Although he isn't completely off the radar, he has raised some points about other players, and other players, after looking at all their posts, just look awful.

Unvote, Vote: Panzer

[LesterGroans]

Panzar Votes me: Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:50 pm
Lester Votes me: Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:27 am (you may have different GMT than me but the interval is the same. I'm GMT-3)
wow... really close votes... He didn't have time to think... he simul posted... wrong.

That's not what I said at all. Why would I even bother lying about that with timestamps? I said I was coming to place my vote, saw that Panzer had right above mine... but how would that change my suspicions on you? I placed my vote anyway.

Ahhh...

You suddenly mention this when you haven't ever mentioned it before...

I NEVER insisted that AMISHED WAS the Vig/SK kill. I insisted that AMISHED WASN'T NECESSARILLY the mafia kill as panzer implied. And It's funny that you give the possibility of me being a vig but wan't to lynch me anyway because it would give info to scum if I were vig. Nice way to mislynch and not get the heat. Is everyone reading this??? It's insane how I'm being attacked.

The bolded part: ummm, i never said I mentioned it before. I'm just mentioning it now. Am I supposed to pre-mention things?

For the rest of it, to clarify, I wasn't saying "you know the Vig/SK kill, so you must be it, so we must kill you", I was just stating that your post seemed odd and it could mean one of two things: 1) you are SK/Vig and if that were true you're to be ignored now, or 2) you're mafia, know which kill was yours, so knew which was not. I'm not saying we shoud lynch you because you're SK or whatever, just saying scum would have info on which kill was which too.

You seem to be misreading and misleading what people are saying to you, maybe you're just getting your fur up for being accussed.

Also, to clarify my vote a little more, I am suspicious of you, Panzer and Ash(again). I was not nearly certain enough of Panzer to lay down a hammer vote, so I put a vote on you to apply a little pressure. Also, at first when Ash described his style I gave him the benefit of the doubt, but his lack of comments or actions are raising my gut instinct again.

[X]

Vote Count

Panzerjager

: (4) alexhans, Jazzmyn, ryan2754, Stephoscope

alexhans

: (2) LesterGroans, Panzerjager

Debonair Danny DiPietro

: (1) AshKetchummm

AshKetchummm

: (1) Debonair Danny DiPietro

Not Voting

: (1) Zachrulez

Vote Threshold

: 5

Happiness with Posting Level

:

HAPPY

[PJ.]

@Ryan, I really don't see how I contradict myself unless you take what I say out of context.

Also, have you modded before? It's not that much work. Also I've always found it EASIER to put votes in order. Anyway, I digress simply because either way, it's not a tell.

[Zachrulez]

Panzer, claim.

[ryan2754]

Again, I myself said it wasn't a tell, just that it was lazy...

[Stephoscope]

I thought it was a tell. Talking about scumhunting, as opposed to scumhunting itself, can be quite suspicious.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Ryan, if some of your points were addressed at me in your wall o' texts (as some of them might have been, I couldn't be sure because of pronoun usage) please isolate them for me to review.

And I'm not confident that it's appropriate for Panz to claim at this juncture, but I'm quite willing to be swayed if someone has a good argument for it.