Mini 745 - Moving Day Mafia (GAME OVER!)

[Porkens]

All the scum

were

already voting for me, probably.

please explain. you are implying four scum. the three you say were voting you, and zero. sotty7 is lurking. any comments in that direction?

both, or all three, remaining scum were probably on my wagon, which is why no-one hammered.

Herod isn't really cleared, although I think his unvote may win him some townpoints. (wifomwifom)

Top of page 34 vote count:

Porkens 2 (Arc9haist, Jazzmyn)
don_johnson 1 (Porkens)

Not voting: Sotty7, Plonky, Herodotus, Zer0ph34r, don_johnson

With 7 still packing it takes 4 to lynch.

Note: this vote count should be accurate as of this post.

Prods: None

[Jazzmyn]

Welp, to be blunt, if she's town, and she gets no scum vibe from you or Don, she may need to have her radar adjusted.

What are you talking about? I said that I don't think Archaist or don_johnson are scum; I didn't say anything about Zero. As Archaist and don_johnson are the players who were voting for you when I added my vote, that made me shrug off my hesitance to put you at L-1, since I do not believe it to be a scum-driven wagon.

I think that the reason that nobody hammered you is because you are scum and your scum buddies are, naturally, not voting for you.

Regards,
Jazz

[Porkens]

Sorry, I misspoke when I used the word 'you'. I thought you were refering to Zer0

[don_johnson]

All the scum

were

already voting for me, probably.

please explain. you are implying four scum. the three you say were voting you, and zero. sotty7 is lurking. any comments in that direction?

both, or all three, remaining scum were probably on my wagon, which is why no-one hammered.

Herod isn't really cleared, although I think his unvote may win him some townpoints. (wifomwifom)

you earlier implied zero to be scum. why didn't he hammer?

when did herod unvote?

[Herodotus]

i explained the rolefishing comment. to repeat for both you and herod:

i don't care what role zero posseses. he claimed cop, that's fine. if he wants to say he's doc, i'm okay with that. i don't need to know which he is.

why do you?

that is the difference between our questions. the other difference is that yours came first and with no other content. what i do know is that zero targeted porkens last night and offered up the truth when asked. so for now, he gets the benefit of the doubt.

the bolded question is still unanswered.

I answered it in post 817. To put it briefly, if Zero can't keep his claim consistent, that makes me doubt it. And if he is not a cop, but claimed that he has an investigation result, how does that make him anything but scum?
And if you don't care what role Zero has, why did you ask

you claimed cop. do you want to be a doctor now?

And what is the substantive difference that you keep alluding to? You've mentioned the timing already, but you also claimed that

my question to zero was different than yours

you asked him who he is, i asked him who he wants to be

You have not explained how the semantic difference between our questions is of any importance, but you claim it is.

my unvote is suspicious? really?

Did someone say that? I don't remember reading anyone calling it suspicious.

@Porkens: I haven't voted today. I think Don is the only one who has unvoted, other than when you briefly voted him.

@Jazzmyn: You say you don't think Don is scum. I want to agree, but there are some obstacles, as you can see. Are my doubts misplaced? Can you reconcile some of the issues?

@Zero: You're 75% sure Porkens is scum, but you aren't voting. Do you have any arguments or questions?

[don_johnson]

You have not explained how the semantic difference between our questions is of any importance, but you claim it is.

yours is definitive, mine is subjective. i have explained this a couple times now. yours asks who he is. mine does not. add the timing and you have my reason for the question "rolefish?" not sure why you don't understand this. i NEVER ASKED HIM WHAT HIS ROLE WAS. my question asked what he WANTED TO BE. as i said, what

he says his role actually is

doesn't matter more to me at this point than the fact that he is telling the truth as to his target. i.e. i would completely understand town trying to confuse scum at this point in the game. get it?

my unvote is suspicious? really?

Did someone say that? I don't remember reading anyone calling it suspicious.

sorry, you called it "peculiar". what did you mean by that if not "suspicious"?

[Herodotus]

So if he said something about himself being a doctor, you would not suspect that maybe he was scum, the whole cop thing was a fake-claim, and calling himself a doctor was a slip in which he had forgotten his fake-claim? I would.

As far as role-fishing itself is concerned, it doesn't seem right to call it role-fishing when you ask someone who has already claimed one power role whether a statement they made indicates they are a different power role. It's consistency-checking.

"Peculiar" in this case meant it made me curious, and I felt I should consider what motivations you might have for it other than what you stated. I also said, "I think I understand and agree with your reason."

Can anyone explain to me this big difference between asking what Zero is and what he wants to be? To me, Don appears to be saying the same thing over and over, "You asked X, but I asked Y. Also, don't forget the timing!" while I take X and Y to be

effectively

the same. If I'm just the one player who doesn't understand his perfectly acceptable answer, I'll just drop it; there's no point in Don and I talking past each other. But if I'm not the only one, then could someone try to elaborate what I'm saying here? Or can someone clear it all up?

[don_johnson]

So if he said something about himself being a doctor, you would not suspect that maybe he was scum, the whole cop thing was a fake-claim, and calling himself a doctor was a slip in which he had forgotten his fake-claim? I would.

As far as role-fishing itself is concerned, it doesn't seem right to call it role-fishing when you ask someone who has already claimed one power role whether a statement they made indicates they are a different power role. It's consistency-checking.

^^ this is reasonable.

"Peculiar" in this case meant it made me curious, and I felt I should consider what motivations you might have for it other than what you stated. I also said, "I think I understand and agree with your reason."

fair enough.

Can anyone explain to me this big difference between asking what Zero is and what he wants to be? To me, Don appears to be saying the same thing over and over, "You asked X, but I asked Y. Also, don't forget the timing!"

while I take X and Y to be

effectively

the same.

the bolded is where we disagree. this seems like a semantics argument. if you ask me what i am(in real life), i'd say "nurse". if you asked me what i wanted to be, i might say "a professional baseball player." there is a difference in the questions. you are disbelieving zero and asking him to clarify. my question was more "off the cuff"(imo) and allows for him to keep his role a secret. why?

i would completely understand town trying to confuse scum at this point in the game.

i'm not going to press him on such a small discrepancy when i feel as though i have scum cornered. he is either ignorant or playing games with us. possible lylo is not where i'm going to gamble with that. i'd rather stick to the obvscum. personally, i don't need him to clarify his role because i know he told the truth in thread as to who he targeted. that evidence outweighs the slim chance that he is scum who "forgot" what he fakeclaimed.

i am all for a third party intervention here, but honestly i think we are on different trains of thought.

[Herodotus]

Well, if Porkens is scum, I don't think we're in LYLO. Sotty is pretty much the only person I can see as likely to be Porkens's scumbuddy considering today's votes plus Zero's report. From other peoples' perspective, I can't be ruled out, but I don't think that will be a big problem.

More tomorrow or the next day.

[Zer0ph34r]

I do keep my claims consistent, I one time made a mistake in saying the wrong role because it was spelled similar to another word I wrote right after and it has the same amount of letters in it. "Doc" "Don" "Cop"

And the reason I am not voting for Porkens (yet) is because I want to be 99% sure on his role instead of 75%, otherwise it could cost us the game.

[Sotty7]

sotty7: you should pay better attention.

You talk about me and the player I replaced in for as two different and distinct thoughts. You said that I have a similar voting pattern to Porkens. Then say that we also replaced two players who had similar suspicions. These are two different thought processes.

no they ar e not. you do have a similar voting pattern to porkens, and the player you replaced carries similar suspicions. adding their vote patterns to yours gives us a complete picture. you are arguing semantics, which is interesting because later in the post you accuse me of similar tactic.

No. That was how I read your post, the full stop implies two separate thoughts. I'm not saying I don't have a voting pattern, I was simply commented on how you chose to word it. It struck me as strange and repetitive. But I could just be miss reading it and if I am then it is semantics, which I agree is lame.

i claimed because i thought i had things figured out. no crumbs. i wouldn't even know where to begin to crumb such a role. had i only been granted a one shot vig i most likely would have used it the first night, but i thought that i had other abilities for a reason and chose to use them first, perhaps to hone the vig shot if i did get the chance. i watched herod because he seemed rather pro town and i thought he would be a good target for a nightkill. by watching i catch a scum. i tracked zero for obvious reasons. had he lied i would be voting him.

Okay, I agree with your Hero reasoning and also your Zero choice.

Right now my worry here is that if we are to believe your claim you have one ability left, the vig kill. This means if you are scum you are pretty much covered if the game does have a watcher or tracker, for that one kill. Say we make it to day four and so-and-so comes out and say they tracked/watched/whatevered you and found you killing whoever was dead, your claim covers you pretty well. Also it means this game had the potential for three night kills on any one night, that seems like a lot.

Still, I have never played with a JoT before so I am unsure if I truly believe the claim or not. All I have to measure it by is your play. I will have to think on it.

i have explained why i think porkens scummy. you classifying my vote oin porkens as omgus is lazy. do you have any other input for today?

Of course I do. Why are you intent to make out like I am coasting by or not even paying attention when nothing is further from the truth?

The thing about your Porkens vote was that it was extremely reactionary. He votes you and RIGHT after you vote him? If he was that scummy to you why didn't you vote before?

Well, if Porkens is scum, I don't think we're in LYLO. Sotty is pretty much the only person I can see as likely to be Porkens's scumbuddy considering today's votes plus Zero's report. From other peoples' perspective, I can't be ruled out, but I don't think that will be a big problem.

More tomorrow or the next day.

Why do you think that?

As far as my re-read is going I finished doing day one just now. I'm hoping that the rest will go quicker as I was in the game from early day two onwards. Hopefully it shouldn't take too much longer and I will be ready to vote once it's done.

[Porkens]

Lemme just address a couple of things here.

First; a couple of you are voting for me because I started the day out with "Sweet."

I'm glad he's dead, I'll say it again. He was a worthless part of the game, 5 posts in 30 pages. Loosing the Doctor is worth it to get him out of the 3 man endgame.

Second, why are you all giving Zer0 SO much slack? Did I miss something that proves he claims honestly (absolutely sarcasm; we've already established that he claims like a deranged person). Why give his reports any credence what so ever?!

unvote, vote; Zer0

This should have been done days ago.

[Herodotus]

Well, if Porkens is scum, I don't think we're in LYLO. Sotty is pretty much the only person I can see as likely to be Porkens's scumbuddy considering today's votes plus Zero's report. From other peoples' perspective, I can't be ruled out, but I don't think that will be a big problem.

More tomorrow or the next day.

Why do you think that?

At the time, I was planning to vote for Porkens right now, which would help remove any suspicions based on vote patterns that he and I were scum buddies. But I just don't feel confident enough in the case on him to do so. I have one other idea for a scumteam, though it's two people, so mislynching right now wouldn't be fatal. Still, I want Porkens to defend himself. If he continues not to, or if his defense is poor, I'll vote him, but one way or another, what he has to say could help the town.

@Porkens's last post: You have a lot more points to address. Jazzmyn and Archaist listed some.

I'm starting to think that today is the right day for the RB to claim. They can confirm that Don was blocked N1, and their other target may be able to confirm that they were blocked on night 2. Still not 100% sure that it's best.

[don_johnson]

i have explained why i think porkens scummy. you classifying my vote oin porkens as omgus is lazy. do you have any other input for today?

Of course I do. Why are you intent to make out like I am coasting by or not even paying attention when nothing is further from the truth?

The thing about your Porkens vote was that it was extremely reactionary. He votes you and RIGHT after you vote him? If he was that scummy to you why didn't you vote before?

sotty. i am not intent on making it look like you are not paying attention. fact: i voted prokens before he voted me which is contrary to what you seem to think happened. my porkens vote was somewhat reactionary, but more of a reaction to archaist than to what porkens was saying at the time(which was not much).

sorry if you feel that i am attacking you, but you have your information mixed up and i suggest that you get it straight before posting accusations and such. as you can see, it is not my fault that the above post makes it look like you're not paying attention. getting your information straight is your responsibility.

I'm starting to think that today is the right day for the RB to claim. They can confirm that Don was blocked N1, and their other target may be able to confirm that they were blocked on night 2. Still not 100% sure that it's best.

i would support a town rb claim at this time.

[Porkens]

Archaist wrote:
Plonky/Porkens:
Post #236: Plonky (now Porkens) wrote
Plonky wrote:
Lynching an anti-town player doesn't make sense when trying to catch scum. It is possible to ignore him and focus on the real targets.
The real targets? This sounds to me like he knew killa seven wasn't mafia.
Post #271: Plonky (now Porkens) wrote
Plonky wrote:
Especially since we are targetting an annoyance rather than actual scum.
Again this makes it seem like he knew killa seven wasn't actually mafia.
Post #302: don_jhonson makes more good points about how Plonky (now Porkens) seems to have known killa seven was town.
Post #395: Hammers killa seven pretty quickly.

Combined with this:
Porkins wrote:
sweet

And this:
Zer0ph34r wrote:
Oh yeah, I investigated Porkens and he is apparently guilty.

Leads to this: Vote: Porkins

If you want to hang me for Plonky's ass, that's fine; I can't do anything about that.

Believing Zer0 is certainly a choice you could make.

Accusing me of not defending myself against someone who has claimed scum in games in which he was town is goofy.

This just gets weirder and weirder. First, Zero makes an unsolicited cop claim out of the blue, and later claims to have tried to investigate a dead player who had flipped town? And then wonders why the 'action could not be performed'? And he wonders about his sanity... oh my.

Anyway, I asked previously whether it is normal to have a role such as a paranoid cop in a mini normal game where there is already another cop, and a couple of you seem to have indicated that it is possible. Has anyone ever played in a 12 player game with two cops? I haven't completed very many 12 player games yet so I'm just not sure how common or how rare it might be.

I'm not voting because I'm torn on what to do right now. We have one replacement, I'm more than willing to let him catch up with us all.

In the mean time I will probably have to give the last few pages another read. I'm not sure what to think about Zero's half assed cop claim. Scum coming out like he did really makes little sense. Maybe we have two cops. One for mafia, one for the SK? Right now I'm not sure.

Zero really needs to come back in here and you know.. Start making some sense. That would be helpful.

This is such a scummy post.

What is scummy about it?

Regards,
Jazz

Fence-sitting.

sweet

Hella

sweet.

What the?

Porkens, care to explain these posts?

Regards,
Jazz

Already done. Again; glad he's dead. He was worthless. You can't really think he was worth keeping around OR that, as scum, I would make such a horrible "slip" as to express my true feelings on the matter.

Porkens wrote:
What did you think I meant?
I had no idea, thus the question asking you what you meant. "Sweet" with no explanation added seems a very unusual reaction to the death of our doctor.

I honestly didn't think it needed explanation and I'm still shocked that it did.

As Archaist pointed out, Porkens did not acknowledge, let alone dispute, Zero’s claim to have received a guilty on him during the night. Then in 77, he engages in unnecessary sarcasm in his response to Archaist in a manner that makes it look to me like he’s trying too hard to justify those last two points.

Then he gets all in a tizzy and votes don based on his own misunderstanding of the various cop roles.

No, I don't put ANY stock in what Zer0 says.

I reacted honestly to what I thought was going on. My mistake was my fault, but are you saying I'm scummy for making a mistake?

Don's pushing on me in some way that triggers a gut reaction in me. I'd take any reason to vote him at this point.

[Zer0ph34r]

I never claimed falsely, I made an effing mistake when typing, Porkens. Why is that so hard to believe? And if I should've been lynched days ago, why have you never voted for me?

[Zer0ph34r]

Eh, I might as well, I don't suspect (or dislike) anyone else as much as I do you.

Vote: Porkens

[Porkens]

Too blinded by the idea that you're honestly making these mistakes. I'm not even going to react to the rest of your last post.

I'm on to you, though you might fool the others.

[Zer0ph34r]

Yeah, because it's impossible for someone to make a simple mistake in a game like this. [SARCASM!]

[Porkens]

hahah, good one. Vanilla town.

[don_johnson]

Don's pushing on me in some way that triggers a gut reaction in me. I'd take any reason to vote him at this point.

i am pushing you because i want to kill you.

vote: porkens

sleep tight.

[Herodotus]

Does your evil grin mean the scum team just won, Don? Was it you, Jazzmyn, and Archaist?

[Sotty7]

At the time, I was planning to vote for Porkens right now, which would help remove any suspicions based on vote patterns that he and I were scum buddies. But I just don't feel confident enough in the case on him to do so. I have one other idea for a scumteam, though it's two people, so mislynching right now wouldn't be fatal. Still, I want Porkens to defend himself. If he continues not to, or if his defense is poor, I'll vote him, but one way or another, what he has to say could help the town.

Ah my bad. Why I asked why, I meant “why do you think I am his partner if he is scum?”

sotty. i am not intent on making it look like you are not paying attention. fact: i voted prokens before he voted me which is contrary to what you seem to think happened. my porkens vote was somewhat reactionary, but more of a reaction to archaist than to what porkens was saying at the time(which was not much).

sorry if you feel that i am attacking you, but you have your information mixed up and i suggest that you get it straight before posting accusations and such. as you can see, it is not my fault that the above post makes it look like you're not paying attention. getting your information straight is your responsibility.

Yes but this does not change the fact that you unvoted and then only re-voted after he voted you. This is reactionary isn't it?

Does your evil grin mean the scum team just won, Don? Was it you, Jazzmyn, and Archaist?

Well crap, it looks that way. Grrr. I thought Porkens was scum, if it was Archaist he had me fooled.

[raider8169]

Archaist, Jazzmyn, Zer0ph34r, and don_johnson all gang up on Porkens. They tie him to a tree and wait for him to die. Bored they start talking and wondering if he if he is really scum.

Sotty7 and Herodotus show up after Porkens is already in the tree. Off in the distance trucks could be heard pulling into town. Everyone turned to watch them drive up. Everyone but don_johnson he was using that time to pull out his knife and drive it into the back of Sotty7.

Zer0ph34r thought it best to put a knife in the back of Herodotus.

Archaist and Jazzmyn jumped as they watched Sotty7 and Herodotus fall to the ground.

Archaist said...nothing Jazzmyn was too fast and stabbed Archaist in the back.

Porkens, townie, lynched day 3
Sotty7, townie, killed in endgame
Herodotus, townie, killed in endgame
Archaist, townie, killed in endgame

Jazzmyn, Zer0ph34r, don_johnson WIN!

Flawless Scum victory!

[Sotty7]

Booooooooooooooooooooo!

Zero as scum hurts my head so much. Porkens you were right, I couldn't get past Plonky though... Damn.

I was kinda onto Jazz and Don, leaning towards voting Don today but I still had so much of the game to read. There was no way I was voting for Jazz today either.

Learned a hard and brutal lesson today. Always lynch zero. Always.

Good game guys. Hats off to the scum team.

Thanks for modding Raider