Mini 167 - Les Miserables Mafia. Game over!

[LoudmouthLee]

Random

vote: Changling Bob

Mod, you might want to chaing topic subject from Night to Day. Not trying to tell you how to do your job, but.....

[LoudmouthLee]

vote: gootentag

It is

Day 1. 11 people live; 6 to lynch.

Mod, you might want to change the count to 8 alive, 5 to lynch. Not trying to tell you how to do your job, but.....

Highfive MeMe

[LoudmouthLee]

Is there any reason not to have a cop come forwards if they think they’ve found someone who is mafia? Conversely, is there any reason to have a cop come forwards if they haven’t?

Well, in this theme the one

obvious

cop (Javert) may not judge correctly. Although I'd assume Javert to be on the side of the town, I wouldn't trust his judgment completely. After all, he identified someone incorrectly as being Jean Valjean and pursued Jean Valjean mercilessly despite the fact that JV had changed his ways. He even commits suicide because he realizes that the law, to which he'd dedicated his life, isn't always just.

So, basically, I'm against the cop coming out at this time -- though I might have to reconsider if someone has a cop role and is

not

named Javert.

FoS: MeMe

MeMe, I have a question for you, then.

Say Javert is a cop as you say he is. Who's the Mafia then?

As the major antagonist in Les Mis, I would assume that Javert would be the Mafia GF, if you will, for reasons you have said previously.

So, MeMe, play Mod for a second. If not Javert, then who? [/b]

[LoudmouthLee]

LML is ALWAYS eager. Nothing against you, MeMe. Just my Mafia style. You'll see a lot of FOS's thrown out by me. I like to gather information that way.

I, however, am not sold on Javert being a cop. Sorry.

[LoudmouthLee]

Read and Seen multiple times here.

[LoudmouthLee]

There's a lot going on here. Let me first say that after some serious thought, I will withdraw my idea about Javert being scum. After looking at MY role, I can assume who I think the scum are. Javert would not be one of them.

However, onto a different matter:

If i'm getting the insinuation, which I believe I am, I'm going to make an odd vote here.

Unvote: CB, Vote: EmpTyger

Rationale:

Point 1- He asked the initial question about everyone's knowledge of Les Mis. If ET is mafia, then he would likely be able to ascertain his claim chances if he knows the knowledge base of his opponents. Very.. questionable.

Especially after we see post 22:

I’d rather wait until hearing everyone’s answer before answering your "why would this matter" question, if that’s alright? It probably doesn't matter at this point, but I might as well wait. I think it’s just bob and gootentag’s status which are uncertain, so after they indicate.

Point 2- ET seems to have a "cop fear", especially one about a sane cop. Javert might have been "discredited" somewhat, but Javert (a very likely role) is still a cop.

Spot me if I made a mistake. I'll be happy to correct.

[LoudmouthLee]

What are we discussing here?

I mean, we have FACTS to go on here, and instead, we're looking at Mafia logistics. As much as their interesting...

The fact remains that, as of right now, it does not pay to speculate on the killing groups until we have a need to. I feel this discussion is a red herring or sorts, out there to ultimately cause confusion.

[LoudmouthLee]

Please pardon if you consider this metagaming.. but here's what I ascertained...

1- Emptyger's actions have been rather suspicious thus far, for reasons that you and I have shown thus far.

2- We, currently, have no reason to believe that there are multiple killing groups. Occam's razor reigns supreme here. You're right. We have one dead townie... not two.

This game is too small to be "outguessing" the mod. A few wrong turns, and we're all sleeping with the fishes. Lets go with the "more factual" stuff rather than speculation about killing groups.

If you all find it worthwhile, however, I can't stop you. I just wouldn't want to chase my tail all day.

[LoudmouthLee]

Posts 37-39 all seemed to be tail-chasing right about now, MeMe. I just find this method of convo to be going nowhere. I'd like EmpTyper to explain his quip here (which I felt never got a good answer)

[quote}I’d rather wait until hearing everyone’s answer before answering your "why would this matter" question, if that’s alright? It probably doesn't matter at this point, but I might as well wait. I think it’s just bob and gootentag’s status which are uncertain, so after they indicate.[/quote]

Why was the answer to this necessary, even after the importance had been "downplayed"?

It seemed to me that you were looking to check everyone's familiarity with the plot in order to figure out the complexity of a future claim.

Hint: You have an English teacher in this Mafia game.

[LoudmouthLee]

Posts 37-39 all seemed to be tail-chasing right about now, MeMe. I just find this method of convo to be going nowhere. I'd like EmpTyper to explain his quip here (which I felt never got a good answer)

I’d rather wait until hearing everyone’s answer before answering your "why would this matter" question, if that’s alright? It probably doesn't matter at this point, but I might as well wait. I think it’s just bob and gootentag’s status which are uncertain, so after they indicate.

Why was the answer to this necessary, even after the importance had been "downplayed"?

It seemed to me that you were looking to check everyone's familiarity with the plot in order to figure out the complexity of a future claim.

Hint: You have an English teacher in this Mafia game.

Note: Reposted for clarity.

[LoudmouthLee]

I believe it's a mutual respect between myself and MeMe. (at least I hope )

[LoudmouthLee]

I'm not in need of a prod, being that I'm thrilled with my current vote.

[LoudmouthLee]

Could you ever think, Tyger, that I *do not* want to talk about my role? There's a very REAL reason for this. Your questions have been ignored. They will continue to be ignored. If you feel I'm acting

THAT

scummy, and you want to use a bandwagon on me, I'll talk. But it wouldn't be beneficial for anyone.

[LoudmouthLee]

Bob, you just need to realize that there is a very

VALID and GOOD

reason for my posts. I'm

TRYING

to get a certain reaction.

Subtle doesn't work for some of us, does it? Or... Maybe it's because you want to know what you're up against.

As for Emp.. for now, I find your reactions grounded. So I will

Unvote: Tyger

I wish the majority of you already knew how I played Mafia. You'd be able to pick up on my cues.

Witholding this info, Bob, is win/win for the town. I promise you. I know my role. I know how to play my role. Methinks you ask too much.

Vote: Bob

[LoudmouthLee]

LML:
I’m not buying it either, because *you* brought up your role first, completely unprompted:

Let me first say that after some serious thought, I will withdraw my idea about Javert being scum. After looking at MY role, I can assume who I think the scum are. Javert would not be one of them.

If you didn’t want attention brought upon it, why invite discussion?

I wish the majority of you already knew how I played Mafia. You'd be able to pick up on my cues.

Not really an excuse- you knew who’d be reading when you made your posts. Out of curiosity, though, who belongs to this minority of “played with LML before”? Can any of them comment on this matter?


bob:
I’m not ready to assume it’s as simple as “scum or doc”, but I agree with your general point.


vikingfan:
If LML ever can clear his matter up, I’m going to be switching my vote to you awfully quickly. To put it another way: “I'd consider a vote for vikingfan in future, though.”


gootentag:
Not as bad as vikingfan, but you still seem to be on the wrong side of the lurking line.

I'll put it to you simply...

Yes: I know I'm bring attention to myself.
Yes: I know I'm doing it.
Yes: I have a power role.
Yes: My power role has more value this way. Trust me on this.

If you want to allow the Mafia the upper hand, go ahead and try to make me claim. You won't be happy.

[LoudmouthLee]

I'm a longtime GL player.

[LoudmouthLee]

I've tried posting as well. and found the Forum has not taken it... strange.

At any rate, vikingfan, your latest post has done nothing to clear up my suspicion of you -- you again mention your trite phrase of "not outguessing the mod," again in flagrant disregard of the fact that no one is doing so. And you have not responded to any of a number of direct queries aimed at you by me and others.

at least 2 people can verify me

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean, but I sincerely doubt that you have knowledge of two other players' roles, and no game setup I've ever heard of has three cops.

Based on all this, I am changing my FOS to a VOTE --

vote: vikingfan

-K

Krishna, at this time, I believe he's talking about a Mason group...

The problem is that I was quiet with my suspicions of Viking... I'm not part of any group with him, nor can I think of a possible Les Mis "mason" group.

I'm going to major

FoS: VikingFan

for this comment.

[LoudmouthLee]

Okay.. here it goes.

I believe the "name claims" of the VF and CB. However, I am worried about their allignments.

Quote on [116] by CB

I can also recruit new people into the mason group and/or incite revolution (whatever that might mean) at night.

This, to me, souds like a cult.

This post is incredibly difficult for me, for my role name strength is kaput. Bah. You'll take what you can get, right?

*This is not a role claim, more of me telling you my name. You don't get more than that.*

I'm

Cosette.

, but my vote, currently, on CB stays.

[LoudmouthLee]

Unless, of course, you two are mafia.

Which, at this time, is MY best guess.

Unvote: CB, Vote: Gootentag

[LoudmouthLee]

Flavorwise, I find it ironic that Marius is voting for Cosette. Functionally, it is also worth taking note. Surely the two of you (masons) should have some clue as to Cosette's allignment, if not her role. I'm pretty sure the role exists, and in the absence of a counterclaim at this point, I figure the two of you would be most prone to believe it.

Unvote: Gootentag
Vote: MeMe
FoS: EmpTyper
FoS: Viking Fan

My thoughts exactly.

Here's what I don't like... Meme's first and only unvote is a vote to me, even after I claimed.

If you can come up with ANY idea, MeMe, about how Cosette is Mafia, please let me know.

Until then, consider this a formal vote to you on crap logic. I'd vote emptyger again, but that doesnt seem to be going anywhere. Right now, I would *not* be shocked if, at the end of this game, we found you two in bed together. (Before I get misquoted.. I mean as Mafia)

Viking fan, if you don't give me any better reason for you voting a possible mason AFTER you were "searching for me", let me know. Until then, you three have replaced everyone on my people who are mafia list.

If you feel it necessary to get the entirity of my role, lynch me. If you're pro-town, you're making a huge mistake.

[LoudmouthLee]

and, PS: I'm *not* a mason with Viking. He needs to find me.

Maybe he needs to find a different witty girl to go to his bed.

[LoudmouthLee]

Triple post- Posting elsewhere and not here? Mainly because I feel the conversations here have been relatively hogwash and running me around in circles. I'm not going to post for the sake of posting. I'll post when I have something to say.

[LoudmouthLee]

Fine, MeMe, you win.

I am Cosette... the beautiful Cosette... who, as we all know, is safely guarded behind walls.

I'm pro-town and un-nightkillable. My actions were a certain way to get the mafia to waste a night kill (or two) on me.

Looks like that never came to fruitation.

[LoudmouthLee]

PS: The Hogwash was frustration speaking, I apologize. I just thought that someone would pick up on my role via the way I was posting and the way Cosette is described.

As for my attempt for humor, please humor me and tell me if you remember Marius singing this song...

"Drink with me... to days... gone by...
To the night... that used... to be...
Here's to pretty girls who went to our heads...
Here's to witty girls who went to our beds."

But, like many of my attempts thus far, it's going over everyone's heads. Also, I never said I "ignored the game", as I have read every single post the near moment it came up. I just didn't feel like adding anything at that time. I don't enjoy spinning my wheels.

[LoudmouthLee]

Un-night killable is one of the easyest claims for scum to make - it justifies them not dying after a false claim is made. In fact some mods (incl. Jeep) roll nightkill immunity in with apearing town into Godfather roles. In any event, if we have a vigilante they should probably hit LML tonight if he's still around. If his corpse turns up tomorrow, we know he was lying. If he's telling the truth we haven't lost anything other than a night 2 vig kill that may or may not have been productive anyway.

(I am also aware that he may be telling the truth about his ability and not about his role/alignment or that he may have some other way of circumventing a nightkill in the event that he was lying. Or that we hav no vigilantes. Sorry if this is seen as playing Devil's Advocate again )

In my roleclaim, I received no info about any masonry. This is news to me. Especially coupled with the fact that you "voted your love"...

I'm going to upgrade my FoS now. I'm still worried about MeMe, honestly... but for now...

Unvote, but IGMEOY: MeMe, Vote: VikingFan

[LoudmouthLee]

The witty girl comment was a failed attempt at humor. Please disregard.

Just a few notes after reading.. A game like this would definately have Cosette as a character. Not only that, Emp, but Viking ALSO validated Cosette in the game by spouting out his mason mumbo jumbo before this started. No one, in a matter of MANY posts, have counterclaimed Cosette.

Am I still lying about my role? Seems like you're just trying to get rid of me.

unvote: MeMe, Vote: Tyger

I never said I was a doc. I played my role to the best of my ability. It wasn't meant to be.

[LoudmouthLee]

LoudmouthLee, I personally do not believe this claim.

Before this claim it was mentioned how powerful the town must be, due to there being two masons. If your claim is true, as vikingfan points out, the town is far too powerful.

There's also the issue of us not making you claim, followed by you coming out with your role unprompted. This seems a little incongruous (not that I can spell incongruous).

In addition to this, in [158]:

Triple post- Posting elsewhere and not here? Mainly because I feel the conversations here have been relatively hogwash and running me around in circles. I'm not going to post for the sake of posting. I'll post when I have something to say.

Surely if we're talking hogwash, you should (a) come and point that out, (b) explain why we are, and (c) promote some other idea or something.

Having seen you seemingly contradict yourself several times in this thread about your role (that you brought up, tried to surpress, jumped up with a character claim, avoided claiming role, and now claiming), I now feel happy enough to place my first

Vote: LML

By listening to others, you gain a great deal of knowledge. I was listening, not posting.

[LoudmouthLee]

Repeatedly lurk? I went a few days without posting. I promise you, Tyger, I'm one of the leaders in posts in this game.

As for your clarification... and, again, this is just my own rationale...

I decided to re-watch the movie version of Les Mis. A scene in particular that stood out to me was the "Master of the House" scene... the scene in which my role, Cosette, was THENARDIER'S own personal slave...

And no matter what.. no matter how hard they tried, they didn't bring her down too far.

I have not dismissed the fact that Javert may still be Mafia... but I don't know who else would be included...

I am worried, as well, about Marius and the revolution. Look at how the play ended.

We can't have that again.

[LoudmouthLee]

Since I'm one of the "worst lurkers" according to Tyger... I thought I would introduce some math.

There are currently (not counting this one) 204 posts to the game. I am a proud owner of 36 of them. Lets do the math, shall we?

36/204 = around 18%

Now, If there are 10 players in the game (which there are NOT), it would be a safe assumption, posting equally, the percentage would be 10% across the board.

If there were only 5, 20% would be a more aporpos number.

Instead, 18% of posts belong to me. You're main focus on voting me has come from the following complaints:

I'll do this by complaint and answer:

1) I claimed a role, at first, and not my power.
Answer: True. If you're a good mafia player (which, in turn, I believe you are), you know that you MUST play certain roles differently. The role of being un-nightkillable ultimately leads me to an "untouchable" status, however, I was trying (near desperately) to have the Mafia waste a kill attempt on me. Seriously. Look back in the thread. You can easily see my mindset there.

2) I believed I knew who the mafia was. I didn't answer that right away.
Answer: Granted, Javert could STILL be mafia, however, giving my role, Cosette, such a power role, it got me to thinking exactly who tried to "bring Cosette down as far as possible". My answer was already posted. I am not dismissing the fact that there COULD be other possibilites for the Mafia. However, based on my knowledge of the book as well as my role, I can only assume that I was correct about my Mafia picks.

3) I'm a terrible, terrible lurker.
Answer: Granted, I didn't post here for 4 days. I hope my mathematics up top make you realize that, even though I was NOT posting, I was reading. I know that "lurking" is for the most part.. "bad", but Seriously, count the number of CB's posts. What then?

To be honest, I'm apt to believe that CB and Emptyger are both Mafia. That's just my take of it all.

So, with that,

Confirm Vote: EmpTyger

[LoudmouthLee]

So, Emp... Give me your rationale behind the vote of MeMe besides OMGUS.

[LoudmouthLee]

C-Bob. These are your issues? It seems that you're obviously NOT paying attention.

Let's go down your petty little list and contibue to delve into things... Since, of course, reading is DIFFICULT for you:

I'll say things much clearer.

I'll just "delete" the red ones, if that's OK with you, skippy.

2) You refuse to answer questions about (1), claiming that you do not wish to reveal details of your role.
2a) You still refuse after your role is revealed.
2b) What you have revealed does not contain any reason for (1) or (2).

What I have revealed HAS really explained things. It's not my fault that you're not reading!

-I'm un-nightkillable. That means, if I get the mafia to take a shot at me, guess what? THE MAFIA DOESN'T KILL ANYONE. That's reason enought for #1) Me hiding a role this powerful and #3) My refusal to give any more info, even when pressured by you and Emp. Emp's making a fine case on why he ISNT mafia. You're just adding demerits.

4) You repeatedly lurk when the game is, according to you, going in the wrong direction. However, you do not attempt to move the direction of the game in another direction.
4a) ...except to attack those who are skeptical of you based on the unanswered (1) through (4).

-If by repeatedly you mean having 7 times the posts you have. It's called "looking for tells" Sometimes, you can't listen correctly when all you are doing is speaking. That's the major flaw of some players. They don't listen (points to CB)

5) You vote vikingfan immediately after vikingfan unvotes you, announcing that he will test you tonight. If you are telling the truth, why suspect him?

Because he VOTED for me, someone HE WAS LOOKING FOR! Makes me wonder... Marius posted a vote on Cosette, which, if you think about it, is kinda against the flow of the play.

Emp, I'm very close to unvoting you, and changing my vote to CB.

[LoudmouthLee]

My vote stays. Emp, you were pushing really hard for my lynch. If you turn out to be scum, well... It just further proves what I've been trying to say this entire time. Seems my scumdar is rather good. Let's get CB next

[LoudmouthLee]

I find it especially interesting the CB hasn't voted for Emp yet...

[LoudmouthLee]

(eyebrow)

Used a daykill, MeMe? I think the others would have ultimately seen the errors in their logic.

[LoudmouthLee]

Hi everyone-

Incredible props to Goot. This may very well be the BEST scum play I have seen in a long time. Granted, the voting restriction was pure genius... but I don't like the way it played in the last day.

Truth of the matter was, MeMe, you were going to die regardless, for even if you lynched Goot, You would have been found guilty by Javert and being arrested.

This was the classic Townie / Mafia / SK standoff..

As for everyone, it was an amazing game. I had fun playing with you all.. Damn you all for driving me to suiicide.