Open 133 - Lovers Mafia (Over) before 771

[zwetschenwasser]

Good idea, sek. Everyone, post your top pairings. (this worked in our last lovers game)

[Santos]

Hi, i am at work. I am posting from my blackberry. I will be off work in a few hours to respond to all your questions. Thanks for being patient with me.

[Santos]

Edit to the above post:

I will not be able to contribute tonight. Friday night (california, USA time) I will catch up.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

My thinking is a Sekinj/Santos pair right now. More minor possibilty in a Sekinj/Korts couple.

[Empking]

Vote Count No. 3

sekinj (1) Zwets
zwetschenwasser (0)
Korts (0),
Lynx The Antithesis (0)
Santos (0)
Not Voting: Korts, Lynx, Sekinj, Santos

3 to lynch.

[zwetschenwasser]

So far so good. Korts, go next please.

[Korts]

I already did. Santos-sekinj.

[zwetschenwasser]

Sekinj?

[Santos]

I am back at my parents for the weekend. thank you for waiting. I took careful time in going back over day 1 and today and this is what I believe will lead us to a town win:

@Korts, you've got to be kidding me with the accusations as 'opportunistic'. How is it opportunistic when you yourself demanded a Phily lynch? You yourself directed the town to lynch who you thought was the most scummy for Day 1 and you were wrong. You're either a townie and need to admit you're wrong or your scum that is now diverting the attention from yourself to me for something completely trivial (or maybe not so trivial because most of us decided to lynch a townie now. This is a huge FAIL and I'll soon explain why)
I think Sekinj is just calling you out on how stupid it is that you are trying to say its my fault for lynching Phily when you instigated it the most. But she is definitely trying to buddy herself up with me which I now see as a possible scumtell as well. I now believe we have a definite scum out in the light. Its quite laughable really, look:

sekinj is no doubt attacking Korts and defending me for Korts accusations of me being 'opportunistic', but we are seriously going to shoot ourselves in the foot if we don't see how awful it is that we're all attacking each other and not observing the simple things that other players have ignored in the past. What struck me as most ambiguous was Lynx's

Right now I'm looking at Sekinj as one lover and the other one will be filled after Sekinj's lynch.

I won't vote just yet

until I'm positive to avoid the chance of a scum doggy pile after my vote.

Lynx is obviously dishing WIFOM or else he would see that Sekinj is incredibly scummy at this point in the game. He is ignoring her as he neglected zwet on Day 1. This is where I'm sort of torn as to who Lynx would more likely be partnered with: sekinj/swet.

During day 1 I figured everyone was over the zwet discussion so I went with Korts suggestion. Now I am glad I did, even though it cost us Phily...
So what do we have? We have Sekinj playing a grossly overt defense of me hoping Korts will vote me so the scum can end the game by killing me and win. I now see why we didn't go for zwet because we had to decide between Phily and him to see if there actually was a relationship. This cost a townie, but hopefully a win for the town as Phily hoped. Even though we were wrong about Phily, we are more right about zwet having a scum partner as much as sekinj would. So, the only way to figure it out is lynching Lynx. Here is why:

Korts, you yourself mentioned previous Lovers mafias and how most of those ended up with townies blasting each other and the mafia gently glided by for a win by hanging out laughing at them. As suggested, i skimmed over a few of them and the answer is dire: lynch the lurkers (or in this case anyone who acts like zwet or Lynx or Sekinj are doing) It was obvious on Day 1 as it is obvious today. I feel that Lynx is riding it out and waiting for us to make a mistake. He is not committing a vote at this time because he wants to know what everyone else will vote before he votes; same with zwet and sekinj. IMO, this is overly cautious and entirely condemnable as scum because he wants to vote immediately after a townie votes for the wrong person. However, since zwet and sekinj are hot topics now on both days, he is careful to wait and see what happens.

Korts, you need to make the right decision this time. Sekinj and zwet are the second scummiest in my eyes, but it is Lynx that is tanning in the sun while watching us burn each other.

You will notice that Sekinj is in no way going to attack Lynx, but at the same time zwet is avoiding any address at Lynx as well. Its a difficult decision to make, but one of them is protecting Lynx. I see Lynx with either zwet or sekinj, but it has to be zwet moreso because Lynx was in no part ready to go after zwet in any part of the game. However, my accusation that zwet is Lynx's partner is troubled because of my suggestion that Lynx is weary in applying his vote on sekinj, who he apparently finds most scummy right now. Funny huh?

Vote: Lynx

pun intended

'the Antithesis'

. I think I figured it out and the past Lover Mafias certainly helped me out in the observation.

[Korts]

Santos, you are misrepresenting my argument completely. I never called you opportunistic for lynching Phily, and I never considered you scummy for helping to lynch him. Your opportunism manifested in that you attacked me based on Phily's final words, taking for granted a dead townie's words and expecting others to also follow simply based on the fact that since Phily turned town, his largely invalid arguments had more weight to them than anything else.

Also, I never mentioned "townies blasting each other" in Lovers, all I did was link previous games.

Your point about Lynx-zwet/sekinj is noted, however, and interesting.

I'm very close to voting sekinj at this point. Santos, I'd ask you to unvote for now, we still have sekinj to answer.

[zwetschenwasser]

Yes. This trick worked in the last lovers game. By compiling everyone's top picks and seeing which player appears in the majority of them, we can make a much better guess as to scum. As of now sekinj seems the best lynch choice, based on the korts/me/lynx possibilities.

[Korts]

As of now sekinj seems the best lynch choice, based on the korts/me/lynx possibilities.

Don't forget the sekinj-Santos pair. Basically everyone still alive has been suspected to be linked to sekinj.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Hey guys I see I have plenty to address, but today's no good at all. I'm way too busy. Tomorrow or very latest Monday I'll get a post in so just bear with me.

[zwetschenwasser]

As of now sekinj seems the best lynch choice, based on the korts/me/lynx possibilities.

Don't forget the sekinj-Santos pair. Basically everyone still alive has been suspected to be linked to sekinj.

Yes, but to make the best decision we need Santos to give us his top pairings and sekinj to do the same. Then we can lynch whoever pops up the most.

[Korts]

vote: sekinj

[zwetschenwasser]

That works too.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Post coming tomorrow so hang in there everybody.

[zwetschenwasser]

Sekinj is almost positively scum at this point.

[sekinj]

Korts/lynx and korts/santos are my top pairings, not that anyone is listening.

[zwetschenwasser]

...And sekinj wins with her latest AtE! Someone hammer please.

[sekinj]

Please feel free to show me which part looked like I was blaming Santos for the lynch. I remember no argument that went in that direction.

I'm saying I didn't read carefully enough. I saw you were going hard against Santos and it looked to me like it was because he hammered. Now that I went back and read you statements mroe carefully, I can see that you made no actual refernce to the hammer.

now I know you are goign to say I'm just backtracking, but really it was just poor reading with a little too much assumption thrown in.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Lynx wrote:
Right now I'm looking at Sekinj as one lover and the other one will be filled after Sekinj's lynch. I won't vote just yet until I'm positive to avoid the chance of a scum doggy pile after my vote.

Lynx is obviously dishing WIFOM or else he would see that Sekinj is incredibly scummy at this point in the game. He is ignoring her as he neglected zwet on Day 1. This is where I'm sort of torn as to who Lynx would more likely be partnered with: sekinj/swet.

I do see Sekinj is scummy. Hence why I made a post illustrating exactly this point focusing largely on her attack on Phily. How in any way have I ignored Sekinj? Or Zwet for that matter? Lastly how is this WIFOM? You're making a lot of vague comments with nothing to back it up here.

. As suggested, i skimmed over a few of them and the answer is dire: lynch the lurkers (or in this case anyone who acts like zwet or Lynx or Sekinj are doing) It was obvious on Day 1 as it is obvious today. I feel that Lynx is riding it out and waiting for us to make a mistake. He is not committing a vote at this time because he wants to know what everyone else will vote before he votes; same with zwet and sekinj. IMO, this is overly cautious and entirely condemnable as scum because he wants to vote immediately after a townie votes for the wrong person. However, since zwet and sekinj are hot topics now on both days, he is careful to wait and see what happens.

Classifying my play as lurking is quite the stretch I think. It's even more of a reach to call half of the player's play in this game lurky. You think you and Korts have moved this game along all by yourself?

The reason I've hesitated in my vote is because we're in lynch or lose. I think cautiousness is very warranted in this situation. If I want to hear from everybody especially you before I make a final call, then I don't think thats scummy whatsoever. I'm not gonna lay my vote down prematurely and have two scum quicklynch. It's just not a smart play to vote so soon in the day before I see discussion which would be useful if Sekinj is scum for drawing connections the next day. So either way voting early will be foolish. Voting town-Sekinj could end up in a quicklynch and lynching scum-sekinj early takes away discussion which aids in our evaluation of her partner.

Korts, you need to make the right decision this time. Sekinj and zwet are the second scummiest in my eyes, but it is Lynx that is tanning in the sun while watching us burn each other.

You will notice that Sekinj is in no way going to attack Lynx, but at the same time zwet is avoiding any address at Lynx as well. Its a difficult decision to make, but one of them is protecting Lynx. I see Lynx with either zwet or sekinj, but it has to be zwet moreso because Lynx was in no part ready to go after zwet in any part of the game. However, my accusation that zwet is Lynx's partner is troubled because of my suggestion that Lynx is weary in applying his vote on sekinj, who he apparently finds most scummy right now. Funny huh?

First off, why is Sekinj not going to attack me? Just because she hasn't yet doesn't mean she won't. Maybe she had no points to attack me with because I'm not scummy? How is Zwet avoiding any address towards myself?

I'm not sure what game you're reading, but I went after Zwet Day 1. He was basically the only one I even expressed any suspicion towards. I thought his blatant distancing from Phily was scummy and I made many posts reflecting these thoughts. Again I was weary to vote because of lynch or lose. Perhaps you should go back and reread day 1. You said early that I don't see Sekinj is scummy, but now you're saying I find her most scummy? Why this turnaround?

Korts/lynx and korts/santos are my top pairings, not that anyone is listening

I'd entertain these calls if you gave some reasoning behind these pairings. I'd like to hear why you think Korts or Santos is scum. Especially Korts considering he's in both. I will hammer you if you don't convince me well enough and after I've received a sufficient to satisfy me from Santos.

Side note: Zwet's new avatar is too badass for his playstyle.

[Korts]

Thanks, Lynx, for quoting Santos and reminding me why I suspect him.

unvote, vote: Santos

sekinj is more likely to be town than Santos.

[zwetschenwasser]

This is a LOVERS game. We don't need to evaluate sekinj's partner's playstyle as long as sek is scum. As everyone is seeing sekinj connected to SOMEBODY it's very likely that sek is scum with someone. The great thing is that we don't have to worry with whom sek is paired up with. A sek lynch is the safest and most surefire option we have.

[Korts]

This is a LOVERS game. We don't need to evaluate sekinj's partner's playstyle as long as sek is scum. As everyone is seeing sekinj connected to SOMEBODY it's very likely that sek is scum with someone. The great thing is that we don't have to worry with whom sek is paired up with. A sek lynch is the safest and most surefire option we have.

I am clear on all this. The problem is, if sekinj is town and scum had managed to state ample suspicion of sekinj early on, town will be much more likely to jump at shadows.

Either way, I'd lynch Santos, but I'll hammer sekinj if the votes swing that way.