Mini 734 - GrimMafia - OVER

[Vi]

Actually, looking through Archon's other games, I've kind of lost track of where he went from mentally challenged to mentally challenged scum.

I have looked at Looker's play, and consequently Looker's meta, and his actions don't look too far off what the norm is for him.

Yet the same provision wasn't made for Archon?

Archon's play on the other hand is extremely risky if newb town, and downright calculating as scum. Taking in those two possibilities, what do you think the lynch -1 vote was?

I can tell you the answer I got from process of elimination...

Ok... I lied. I decided to give your case another look, and actually checked his posts to verify the things you pointed out...

Wow...

This doesn't bode well to me for some reason.

Okay, sideshow's over; I'm going back to my original ideas.

1- Springlullaby - now Archon

2- Beyond Birthday

3- Skillit- madam.fobs.hero- now Vi

4- Pablo Molinero

5- PerArdua-WolfBlitzer- now Hasdgfas

6- Zachrulez

7- Sipylus-replaced by Looker

8- Ectomancer -replaced by Setael

Vote: Pablo Molinero

(L-4)

[Zachrulez]

I did meta Archon. I haven't found a single game where he's dead, and without having some indication of how he plays under a certain alignment, his meta is currently useless.

If this changes, let me know, and I'll search his name again, and look it over. (I have actually checked multiple times to find a game he's dead in.)

[Beyond_Birthday]

Actually, looking through Archon's other games, I've kind of lost track of where he went from mentally challenged to mentally challenged scum.

I have looked at Looker's play, and consequently Looker's meta, and his actions don't look too far off what the norm is for him.

Yet the same provision wasn't made for Archon?

Archon's play on the other hand is extremely risky if newb town, and downright calculating as scum. Taking in those two possibilities, what do you think the lynch -1 vote was?

I can tell you the answer I got from process of elimination...

Ok... I lied. I decided to give your case another look, and actually checked his posts to verify the things you pointed out...

Wow...

This doesn't bode well to me for some reason.

Okay, sideshow's over; I'm going back to my original ideas.

1- Springlullaby - now Archon

2- Beyond Birthday

3- Skillit- madam.fobs.hero- now Vi

4- Pablo Molinero

5- PerArdua-WolfBlitzer- now Hasdgfas

6- Zachrulez

7- Sipylus-replaced by Looker

8- Ectomancer -replaced by Setael

Vote: Pablo Molinero

(L-4)

This bothers me for two reasons:

1. You make all attacks against Zach and then resume voting Pablo without renewing reason. Your logic progresses:
Hm... I thought Zac was scum.
I reviewed his recent actions to be scummy. Zac looks like scum.
I think Pablo could be Zac's partner.
Vote Pablo.

What the hell? That's kind of a round about turning point.

Also: Okay, Vi has claimed to have read other Archon games and meta defensed, right?
Looker, I know, always plays in this annoying as hell fashion.

Therefore: I will do a quick meta check on both players. Based on Vi's progression, I might vote Zac. Vi is his possible partner based on the illogical follow through of Vi's post. (Sounds like distancing with a threat to vote tomorrow. If there is no tomorrow though, then he just needs to frame Pablo for win?* Working idea.)

Now going to meta check Archon to verify. Looker *is* verified.

[Zachrulez]

And for the record, my top 3 at the moment are.

1. Archon

2. Has (His modkill misrep of looker shot him up.)

3. Beyond Birthday

I'd be happy with any of the 3 being lynched, but the order I list is the order I would prefer.

[Zachrulez]

Actually, looking through Archon's other games, I've kind of lost track of where he went from mentally challenged to mentally challenged scum.

I have looked at Looker's play, and consequently Looker's meta, and his actions don't look too far off what the norm is for him.

Yet the same provision wasn't made for Archon?

Archon's play on the other hand is extremely risky if newb town, and downright calculating as scum. Taking in those two possibilities, what do you think the lynch -1 vote was?

I can tell you the answer I got from process of elimination...

Ok... I lied. I decided to give your case another look, and actually checked his posts to verify the things you pointed out...

Wow...

This doesn't bode well to me for some reason.

Okay, sideshow's over; I'm going back to my original ideas.

1- Springlullaby - now Archon

2- Beyond Birthday

3- Skillit- madam.fobs.hero- now Vi

4- Pablo Molinero

5- PerArdua-WolfBlitzer- now Hasdgfas

6- Zachrulez

7- Sipylus-replaced by Looker

8- Ectomancer -replaced by Setael

Vote: Pablo Molinero

(L-4)

This bothers me for two reasons:

1. You make all attacks against Zach and then resume voting Pablo without renewing reason. Your logic progresses:
Hm... I thought Zac was scum.
I reviewed his recent actions to be scummy. Zac looks like scum.
I think Pablo could be Zac's partner.
Vote Pablo.

What the hell? That's kind of a round about turning point.

Also: Okay, Vi has claimed to have read other Archon games and meta defensed, right?
Looker, I know, always plays in this annoying as hell fashion.

Therefore: I will do a quick meta check on both players. Based on Vi's progression, I might vote Zac. Vi is his possible partner based on the illogical follow through of Vi's post. (Sounds like distancing with a threat to vote tomorrow. If there is no tomorrow though, then he just needs to frame Pablo for win?* Working idea.)

Now going to meta check Archon to verify. Looker *is* verified.

751 Beyond.

Yeah, Vi's vote is flying all over the place. I don't understand how he draws the conclusion that I'm once again scum and then votes Pablo.

I'm just about ready to pull my hair out.

IF THERE IS TOWN META ON ARCHON, PLEASE TELL ME SO THAT I CAN RECHECK AND CONSIDER IT.

Otherwise my focus ain't changing.

[Vi]

IF THERE IS TOWN META ON ARCHON, PLEASE TELL ME SO THAT I CAN RECHECK AND CONSIDER IT.

No TOWN meta. You know this. But I don't see much that's different from his other games. Most people not named tubby216 aren't scum in every game. I'm willing to take a chance. And since that's a major reason people see him as scummy, I'm moving on.

1. You make all attacks against Zach and then resume voting Pablo without renewing reason. Your logic progresses:
Hm... I thought Zac was scum.
I reviewed his recent actions to be scummy. Zac looks like scum.
I think Pablo could be Zac's partner.
Vote Pablo.

What the hell? That's kind of a round about turning point.

I believe many people were more interested in a P. Molinero lynch not too long ago. The quotes were there largely because I was trying to find the case on Archon, which was mostly propagated by Zach.

They're both scum; the order doesn't much matter. I simply picked the one that other people (particularly my pick for Town, Setael) would like more.

Vi is his possible partner based on the illogical follow through of Vi's post. (Sounds like distancing with a threat to vote tomorrow. If there is no tomorrow though, then he just needs to frame Pablo for win?* Working idea.)

What kind of LyLo distancing involves me replacing in and seriously trying to blow Zach to little bits?
Further, if me and Zach were scum, there would be no reason to fight each other right now vs. hammering Archon's n00by rear end into the ground, which would be absurdly easy to do and almost unsportsmanlike not to do.

[Zachrulez]

IF THERE IS TOWN META ON ARCHON, PLEASE TELL ME SO THAT I CAN RECHECK AND CONSIDER IT.

No TOWN meta. You know this. But I don't see much that's different from his other games. Most people not named tubby216 aren't scum in every game. I'm willing to take a chance. And since that's a major reason people see him as scummy, I'm moving on.

Ok, so there are other games where he's arbitrarily put people at lynch -1 for weak reasons? (Bonus points for doing it in lylo.) There are other games where he claims scum? (Going with Has' reasoning there. I've sarcastically claimed scum before, (Not on this site.) and gotten away with it.)

1. You make all attacks against Zach and then resume voting Pablo without renewing reason. Your logic progresses:
Hm... I thought Zac was scum.
I reviewed his recent actions to be scummy. Zac looks like scum.
I think Pablo could be Zac's partner.
Vote Pablo.

What the hell? That's kind of a round about turning point.

I believe many people were more interested in a P. Molinero lynch not too long ago. The quotes were there largely because I was trying to find the case on Archon, which was mostly propagated by Zach.

They're both scum; the order doesn't much matter. I simply picked the one that other people (particularly my pick for Town, Setael) would like more.

I was actually in another game with Pablo while this one was going on where he was acting very similarly to the way he acted here. He was NKed by scum in that game. (Was vanilla town.)

So yeah, I pause with him now.

Vi is his possible partner based on the illogical follow through of Vi's post. (Sounds like distancing with a threat to vote tomorrow. If there is no tomorrow though, then he just needs to frame Pablo for win?* Working idea.)

What kind of LyLo distancing involves me replacing in and seriously trying to blow Zach to little bits?
Further, if me and Zach were scum, there would be no reason to fight each other right now vs. hammering Archon's n00by rear end into the ground, which would be absurdly easy to do and almost unsportsmanlike not to do.

We're definitely not scum together. Based on what I know for sure (That I am town.) if one of us is scum, it's gotta be you. I personally think that we're both town though.

[hasdgfas]

2. Has (His modkill misrep of looker shot him up.)

Please tell me what you're talking about, because I really don't know

[Vi]

Oh wait, I just realized I just said basically the same things P. Molinero put out a few days ago. Perhaps PM-scum isn't as likely as I thought?

Well, may as well bow to the dictates of the public~

Unvote: Pablo Molinero
Vote: Zachrulez

(L-4)

Shifting P. Molinero out, the scumteam congeals to Zach, B_B, and Looker. (Notice the chain of events after Archon puts Looker to L-1 in 668 - B_B stalls instead of hammering, and Zach pushes an Archon lynch instead of hammering. I find it highly doubtful that two out of three of Zach, B_B, and Looker are Town, nor do I swallow how both of them are on the Archon wagon after holding up on Looker.) Hascow is the designated replacement on the list for independent reasons.

-----

Ok, so there are other games where he's arbitrarily put people at lynch -1 for weak reasons? (Bonus points for doing it in lylo.)

It wouldn't surprise me; VIdom and all that. I confess I didn't look hard enough to answer; plus ongoing game rules, etc.

What I DO want to know is why Archon is posting elsewhere, but not here.

[Zachrulez]

This is why unlimited dayvigs should be considered a normal role. *sigh*

Waiting on the cow again (a little more patiently this time).

You

do

know that you can vote a player to be modkilled, right...?

Even Vi knew what he was trying to say here.

You

do

know that you can vote a player to be modkilled, right...?

I believe that would be called a "lynch".

You turned it into this.

This is why unlimited dayvigs should be considered a normal role. *sigh*

Waiting on the cow again (a little more patiently this time).

You

do

know that you can vote a player to be modkilled, right...

Why would you even

suggest

this? there is no town reason at all for suggesting modkill.

unvote, vote: looker

Are you friggin serious, do you know what's going on, Mr. "No Town Reason"? Wtf? Great way to 'sguise a vote

Only scum want modkills, because that lowers the number of people they have to get rid of themselves. Town wants replacements because that helps the game.

Word fail clarified below.

You

do

know that you can vote a player to be modkilled, right...?

I believe that would be called a "lynch".

Gah, i guess ur rite...

So yeah, that would be the misrep.

[Zachrulez]

Oh wait, I just realized I just said basically the same things P. Molinero put out a few days ago. Perhaps PM-scum isn't as likely as I thought?

Well, may as well bow to the dictates of the public~

Unvote: Pablo Molinero
Vote: Zachrulez

(L-4)

Well I guess since you're suspicions have shifted just about everywhere it makes sense that you'd eventually come back to me...

Shifting P. Molinero out, the scumteam congeals to Zach, B_B, and Looker. (Notice the chain of events after Archon puts Looker to L-1 in 668 - B_B stalls instead of hammering, and Zach pushes an Archon lynch instead of hammering. I find it highly doubtful that two out of three of Zach, B_B, and Looker are Town, nor do I swallow how both of them are on the Archon wagon after holding up on Looker.) Hascow is the designated replacement on the list for independent reasons.

Did it occur to you that if Beyond is scum and I am not, that one of the things he may be trying to do is play up this perceived link between us that you seem to keep seeing? There isn't much I can do about him echoing my play other than voting him, and I'm not quite that suspicious of him compared to other players at the moment.

I didn't hammer looker because I don't think he's scum, that wouldn't really be smart of me to go and lose the game by playing against my feelings now would it?

Also, keep in mind that I unvoted pablo at your urging, since Archon's lynch -1 vote seemed to freak you out so much. (Perhaps he's YOUR scumbuddy...)

[Vi]

Did it occur to you that if Beyond is scum and I am not, that one of the things he may be trying to do is play up this perceived link between us that you seem to keep seeing? There isn't much I can do about him echoing my play other than voting him, and I'm not quite that suspicious of him compared to other players at the moment.

So you're trying to convince me that B_B is buddying to you like crazy, yet you're not that suspicious of him?

Also, keep in mind that I unvoted pablo at your urging, since Archon's lynch -1 vote seemed to freak you out so much. (Perhaps he's YOUR scumbuddy...)

Good point, minus the side comment. I would have expected scum to just pretend they didn't see anything. It's weak, but enough to allow me to pass by for this five minutes.

Next on

Vi's Carousel of Death!

is...

Unvote: Zachrulez
Vote: Beyond_Birthday

(L-4)

...the mysterious creepy guy who nobody has any opinion on! Last seen pushing the people who are already under pressure (weakly), and vaguely expressing opinions on who is scum here.

Looker: NO idea who Looker suspects.

has: Reading. We need some fresh outlook because I am able to conclude one thing: I am confused.

Archeon: GET IN THE GAME! I ALMOST FORGOT YOU EXISTED!

I see bias.

B_B, why should we let you live? *holds microphone close*

[Zachrulez]

Did it occur to you that if Beyond is scum and I am not, that one of the things he may be trying to do is play up this perceived link between us that you seem to keep seeing? There isn't much I can do about him echoing my play other than voting him,

and I'm not quite that suspicious of him compared to other players at the moment.

So you're trying to convince me that B_B is buddying to you like crazy, yet you're not that suspicious of him?

Ok, read the bold, and refer to post 753.

[hasdgfas]

This is why unlimited dayvigs should be considered a normal role. *sigh*

Waiting on the cow again (a little more patiently this time).

You

do

know that you can vote a player to be modkilled, right...?

Even Vi knew what he was trying to say here.

You

do

know that you can vote a player to be modkilled, right...?

I believe that would be called a "lynch".

You turned it into this.

This is why unlimited dayvigs should be considered a normal role. *sigh*

Waiting on the cow again (a little more patiently this time).

You

do

know that you can vote a player to be modkilled, right...

Why would you even

suggest

this? there is no town reason at all for suggesting modkill.

unvote, vote: looker

Are you friggin serious, do you know what's going on, Mr. "No Town Reason"? Wtf? Great way to 'sguise a vote

Only scum want modkills, because that lowers the number of people they have to get rid of themselves. Town wants replacements because that helps the game.

Word fail clarified below.

You

do

know that you can vote a player to be modkilled, right...?

I believe that would be called a "lynch".

Gah, i guess ur rite...

So yeah, that would be the misrep.

oh THAT is what that was about? I thought there were two completely different trains of thought going on in that conversation. I thought Vi was saying we could vote to lynch instead of vote to modkill since it's redundant anyway.

[Vi]

Did it occur to you that if Beyond is scum and I am not, that one of the things he may be trying to do is play up this perceived link between us that you seem to keep seeing? There isn't much I can do about him echoing my play other than voting him,

and I'm not quite that suspicious of him compared to other players at the moment.

So you're trying to convince me that B_B is buddying to you like crazy, yet you're not that suspicious of him?

Ok, read the bold, and refer to post 753.

Done.
I would think that the difference between the charges on B_B and hascow is a bit more significant in the other direction than you're suggesting, but it's your life.

So now that the cow has responded, does anything change?

Talking of the response: My response to Looker was more aligned with common sense than knowing what he was talking about. I'm not sure if Looker actually meant that we could try voting to kick someone out of the game; but since that would defeat the purpose of lynching, I shot it down.
Considering "modkill" and "lynch" are two decidedly different terms in Mafia, I don't think the bovine response to Looker's post was unwarranted.

[Zachrulez]

Did it occur to you that if Beyond is scum and I am not, that one of the things he may be trying to do is play up this perceived link between us that you seem to keep seeing? There isn't much I can do about him echoing my play other than voting him,

and I'm not quite that suspicious of him compared to other players at the moment.

So you're trying to convince me that B_B is buddying to you like crazy, yet you're not that suspicious of him?

Ok, read the bold, and refer to post 753.

Done.
I would think that the difference between the charges on B_B and hascow is a bit more significant in the other direction than you're suggesting, but it's your life.

So now that the cow has responded, does anything change?

Talking of the response: My response to Looker was more aligned with common sense than knowing what he was talking about. I'm not sure if Looker actually meant that we could try voting to kick someone out of the game; but since that would defeat the purpose of lynching, I shot it down.
Considering "modkill" and "lynch" are two decidedly different terms in Mafia, I don't think the bovine response to Looker's post was unwarranted.

Noted.

For the record I had thought about things before your post and Beyond is 2nd on my list and Has is now 3rd.

I just didn't bother to update the list.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Did it occur to you that if Beyond is scum and I am not, that one of the things he may be trying to do is play up this perceived link between us that you seem to keep seeing? There isn't much I can do about him echoing my play other than voting him, and I'm not quite that suspicious of him compared to other players at the moment.

So you're trying to convince me that B_B is buddying to you like crazy, yet you're not that suspicious of him?

Also, keep in mind that I unvoted pablo at your urging, since Archon's lynch -1 vote seemed to freak you out so much. (Perhaps he's YOUR scumbuddy...)

Good point, minus the side comment. I would have expected scum to just pretend they didn't see anything. It's weak, but enough to allow me to pass by for this five minutes.

Next on

Vi's Carousel of Death!

is...

Unvote: Zachrulez
Vote: Beyond_Birthday

(L-4)

...the mysterious creepy guy who nobody has any opinion on! Last seen pushing the people who are already under pressure (weakly), and vaguely expressing opinions on who is scum here.

Looker: NO idea who Looker suspects.

has: Reading. We need some fresh outlook because I am able to conclude one thing: I am confused.

Archeon: GET IN THE GAME! I ALMOST FORGOT YOU EXISTED!

I see bias.

B_B, why should we let you live? *holds microphone close*

Obviously because voting me is the losing move for town by 3=3.

Other than that:
You don't have a case against me. I mean...really, how am I supposed to say, "Oh look, you're wrong" when you just attack me and ask me to defend myself against an unreasoned vote. Also, it isn't my fault no one's had an opinion on me. I post mostly frequently. My play is, honestly, a little all over the place, but I have tried my best to keep the town's intentions at heart and haven't done anything to the contrary, or you would have used it to bite my head off.

Now, I could vote you for attacking 3 different people in your past three post. For voting Pablo, and then seeing my post, making up a reason to vote Zach, and then from there, attacking me because I seem like a threat to you? I dunno, this is how I perceive your play on this page (31). Erego, I should vote you for lynch. However, since this is all a straight reaction, I think an OMGUS-esque vote isn't called for...yet. (I like Zac's theory on Archon+Vi Scum team. It was different. Zac, you're confusing me on if your town or not. Stop it.)

Instead, big, fat OMGUS FoS Vi. FYI, I don't think it is OMGUS, but since someone might accuse the FOS as being such, I'll tag it on there anyway.

@ Has post: Yeah... now that your caught up, care to be useful again?

@Vi: You haven't...really...never mind. And instead of procrastinating, going to go metahunting now.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Confirmed: Archon's always an idiot.

[Looker]

oh THAT is what that was about? I thought there were two completely different trains of thought going on in that conversation. I thought Vi was saying we could vote to lynch instead of vote to modkill since it's redundant anyway.

...? otay.

[Vi]

Great response, B_B. "I'm Town, I've been following along with everyone else for the sake of the Town, and you have no case" is extremely compelling. [/sarcasm]

In that case, let me lay out why I think you're scummy.

Your posts are, for the most part, unnecessary. I think if I removed your posts from the game, nothing of value would be lost - I would be able to understand what other people were saying just as well. You get really into the theoretical argument D1, but you don't bother with voting or doing anything other than playing Discussion Orderly. You say that you have no issue with voting people (149), but that's one thing you do noticeably seldom - and when you do, it just happens to be joining other votes.

Now notice the similarities between these posts.

Zach 126 - B_B 127
Zach 139 - B_B 149 (notice the same wording at the beginning of the post, and how they both suggest the wagon is not worth pushing)
B_B 197 - Zach 199
Both just happened to push Zer0 at the same times
Both just happened to push s.lullaby at the same times
Both just happened to go back to Zer0 at similar times (with B_B's wording re: Zer0's scumminess changing in midpost from useless to sinister)

Not that you talk about each other much. You credited him with your reasons for the Zer0 wagon twice, and then mentioned him in these places--
"As a side note, I like's Zach's recent posts..." - 242
"Zachrulez - Slightly town" - 282 (no explanation given)
"I wouldn't upset the moderator if I were you... " - 509
"However, the idea Zach presented of Setael/Ecto + Spring was interesting." - 526
"Flawless. Zach isn't scum. " - 538

--and Zach mentions you even less--

"364: Points out BB's reluctance to the Zero wagon." - 381
--ha, not really.
Notice that all of this is before D3, during which you were basically the only people playing anyway, and even then it's not like you said much to each other, let alone express suspicion of each other (until I replaced in).

There's also my original gripe about you--

Anyway, B_B has a rather sizeable train of conveniently dead people pointing to him, given the vote/death analysis. One interesting thing I noticed is that every time B_B takes offense to something Zach says, within two posts Zach is back to Extremely Good-Looking Town. Similarly, if you look at basically any time in D1 when B_B and Zachrulez posted near each other, it's about the same subjects and usually takes the same positions (Zer0 is worth voting, not backing down from Zer0, JereIC's case on springlullaby is solid, Zer0 is getting everyone's attention again, etc.) This isn't buddying, this is collaboration.

(...)

Miscellaneous: The arguing at the start of D3 looks cheesy to me. Seriously, throwing your votes around at LyLo without solid suspicions? You people are either bolder than I ever would be or know that nothing bad will come of it. Plus the whole modkill discussion bites (bited... bit... ugh, conjugating irregular vulgarities). I'd wager at most two of B_B, Zach, and springlullaby are scum based on this by itself, but not all three.

You agreed with this assessment of your play, and only now started to suggest Zach-scum. This sauce is weak, and Zach 565 drove it home.

I see a lot of digesting of what is posted from Beyond, and then a general regurgitation of the most recently posted thoughts and Beyond tends to try to adapt to what is the fashionable topic of discussion at the particular point in time.

So why isn't Zach terribly interested in voting B_B again?

-----

Normally when rereading I find counterpoints, things that could make you look Town and cause me to doubt myself. I saw no such thing. You were unable to provide a justification for your existence other than that you didn't feel a case against you was made. You're wrong. Die.

Confirm Vote: Beyond_Birthday

[Vi]

Also, where is Archon?
Some Setael would be nice but at least I can tell she's not lurking.

[Zachrulez]

Great response, B_B. "I'm Town, I've been following along with everyone else for the sake of the Town, and you have no case" is extremely compelling. [/sarcasm]

In that case, let me lay out why I think you're scummy.

Your posts are, for the most part, unnecessary. I think if I removed your posts from the game, nothing of value would be lost - I would be able to understand what other people were saying just as well. You get really into the theoretical argument D1, but you don't bother with voting or doing anything other than playing Discussion Orderly. You say that you have no issue with voting people (149), but that's one thing you do noticeably seldom - and when you do, it just happens to be joining other votes.

As you explain below, the above is probably why Beyond has managed to escape mention from me for the most part up till now. It's a symptom of trying to stay under the radar.

Now notice the similarities between these posts.

Zach 126 - B_B 127
Zach 139 - B_B 149 (notice the same wording at the beginning of the post, and how they both suggest the wagon is not worth pushing)
B_B 197 - Zach 199
Both just happened to push Zer0 at the same times
Both just happened to push s.lullaby at the same times
Both just happened to go back to Zer0 at similar times (with B_B's wording re: Zer0's scumminess changing in midpost from useless to sinister)

Not that you talk about each other much. You credited him with your reasons for the Zer0 wagon twice, and then mentioned him in these places--
"As a side note, I like's Zach's recent posts..." - 242
"Zachrulez - Slightly town" - 282 (no explanation given)
"I wouldn't upset the moderator if I were you... " - 509
"However, the idea Zach presented of Setael/Ecto + Spring was interesting." - 526
"Flawless. Zach isn't scum. " - 538

--and Zach mentions you even less--

"364: Points out BB's reluctance to the Zero wagon." - 381
--ha, not really.
Notice that all of this is before D3, during which you were basically the only people playing anyway, and even then it's not like you said much to each other, let alone express suspicion of each other (until I replaced in).

There's also my original gripe about you--

Anyway, B_B has a rather sizeable train of conveniently dead people pointing to him, given the vote/death analysis. One interesting thing I noticed is that every time B_B takes offense to something Zach says, within two posts Zach is back to Extremely Good-Looking Town. Similarly, if you look at basically any time in D1 when B_B and Zachrulez posted near each other, it's about the same subjects and usually takes the same positions (Zer0 is worth voting, not backing down from Zer0, JereIC's case on springlullaby is solid, Zer0 is getting everyone's attention again, etc.) This isn't buddying, this is collaboration.

(...)

Miscellaneous: The arguing at the start of D3 looks cheesy to me. Seriously, throwing your votes around at LyLo without solid suspicions? You people are either bolder than I ever would be or know that nothing bad will come of it. Plus the whole modkill discussion bites (bited... bit... ugh, conjugating irregular vulgarities). I'd wager at most two of B_B, Zach, and springlullaby are scum based on this by itself, but not all three.

You agreed with this assessment of your play, and only now started to suggest Zach-scum. This sauce is weak, and Zach 565 drove it home.

On top of all of the above, did you notice that 752 was a basic agreement with you for going back to your original theories, and that Beyond basically threw an assertion out there that he'd vote me based on meta checks of Archon and Looker.

Once you change your vote to him. He turns from agreeing to you to becoming suspicious of you. Suddenly, I'm looking town again.

Holy shit, can someone's suspicious just happen to change so much simply in reaction to one's own desire for survival?

I see a lot of digesting of what is posted from Beyond, and then a general regurgitation of the most recently posted thoughts and Beyond tends to try to adapt to what is the fashionable topic of discussion at the particular point in time.

So why isn't Zach terribly interested in voting B_B again?

Fuck it.

Unvote, Vote: Beyond_Birthday

[hasdgfas]

@ Has post: Yeah... now that your caught up, care to be useful again?

Are you calling what I've done since then not useful? Sure, they might not be walls, but I don't think they're useless posts.

Obviously because voting me is the losing move for town by 3=3.

So you're

sure

that there are three scum then? hmmm.

In fact, all of BB's post 766 seems really scummy to me. He's playing WAY too cautiously.
"I would vote for you but someone might call it OMGUS" just screams overcautious scum to me.

Zac, you're confusing me on if your town or not. Stop it.

what's this supposed to be then?

I'm also not a big fan of Zach's vote here in 771 after Vi called him out on not voting for BB. Compliant scum?

[Pablo Molinero]

At home for the holidy, so this is short: I've been saying B-B's different treatment of Looker/Arch for a while now, Vi, it's just now that it's been noticed? I don't like the idea of your "Carousel of Death" because it seems like fishing for a kill, any kill, that the town will follow along with. However, I can't exactly begrudge you for doing it to your top 3 suspects since we're assuming there are 3 scum. I'm going to hold off on my vote right now, to see what our favorite punching bags in Looker and Arch say.

[Vi]

At home for the holidy, so this is short: I've been saying B-B's different treatment of Looker/Arch for a while now, Vi, it's just now that it's been noticed?

Yep.
It's a combination of not paying much attention to you the first couple of reads through and riding the short bus when I get excited about nailing someone (or so I think).

I don't like the idea of your "Carousel of Death" because it seems like fishing for a kill, any kill, that the town will follow along with.

That's not an entirely unfair assessment; I can see how you could come to that conclusion. It's me looking at the five people I'm most concerned about and trying to whittle down who the likeliest scum is.
As you've already pointed out, though, I'm not looking for

any

lynch. I think it's clear that I'm setting limits on who I'm looking at. Plus if that were the case I wouldn't be abandoning perfectly viable lynch wagons right and left; if I were scum, Archon/Looker/you/whoever would be long dead by now. (Regardless of whether the flavor of the day happened to be scum. I'm all for bussing n00bcakes for Townie cred.)