Mini 734 - GrimMafia - OVER

[Zachrulez]

How far along are you?

[hasdgfas]

How far along are you?

partway through page 16

[Zachrulez]

Well if you make it through page 20, you will be on day 3 at least should you chose to play forward.

[Looker]

I think I need to put a gun to my head and blow my brains out. I decided (shortly after joining this game) to lurk for the first five pages so I could avoid the Random voting stage, but I feel like, as this game reaches page 30, we have suddenly reentered the realm where nonsense and stupidity run rampant, where votes exist, but just seem to be cast on a whim of emotion without logic or reasons....

I need to shoot myself.

Perhaps you should if your brain can't take it. Irrationality is the highest form of logic.

question: would you prefer it if I attempted to fully catch up and continue hurting my head while reading this game and keep getting behind or pretty much "play from here forward" and go back when I need to look at something?

Hey, that's what I do.

Well if you make it through page 20, you will be on day 3 at least should you chose to play forward.

I didn't even get

that

far.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Give me reasons that you're voting for Arch that are NOT seen in Looker (who showed off his stupid first and got your "I have no talent for reading "newb scum" versus "newb town." " reaction). Use bullet points if you want to make it simple. Hell, something plz.

Yeah, I saw zach's post. I reallt don't have any comments. it's not that I have no counter-reasonings, I just don't feel he is a threat to me. its one vote so far. if more people voted for me, I would then start to retort.

You can ask me questions though. I'm always happy to answer them

I don't like cute.

*Smiles*
Lets Carve a "B" in that heart of yours...
*pulls out favorite knife*

Seriously, you can't say: "Oh yeah, I know he voted me, and even though its lylo, I have no reason to try and counter him. But, yeah, I like...have counter reasons, but, you know, whatever."

Look, its lylo. Mathematically, that means there are 5 townies. Unless 1 or 2 of the three mafia see a bus as REALLY necessary to their victory, they will be hesistant to vote a partner off of weak reasoning. IF you were town aligned, you would realize that it is essential you correct ANYONE'S attack on you, no matter how weak, because we will need ALL of the townie votes to get a player lynched (assuming we do lynch scum and scum never vote partners. Obviously, toward the end of a wagon, I'd imagine, scum would vote for the one about to die).

Using this line of reasoning, I

Vote Archon

Above=Reason Why voting for Archon over lurker as both have been theorized scum.

I think I need to put a gun to my head and blow my brains out. I decided (shortly after joining this game) to lurk for the first five pages so I could avoid the Random voting stage, but I feel like, as this game reaches page 30, we have suddenly reentered the realm where nonsense and stupidity run rampant, where votes exist, but just seem to be cast on a whim of emotion without logic or reasons....

I need to shoot myself.

Perhaps you should if your brain can't take it. Irrationality is the highest form of logic.

Daystab: Looker

<--Blantantly stolen from Vi.

I want this ability.

Has: I've read a 28+ page game in a day cause the guys were in a 3 person lylo. You should be able to rush through the game and get a feel for the remaining characters. Just dedicate an hour or two to it, it isn't that hard... (I was town that game, obviously we won...stupid mountainous multi-ball...)

[Vi]

question: would you prefer it if I attempted to fully catch up and continue hurting my head while reading this game and keep getting behind or pretty much "play from here forward" and go back when I need to look at something?

I'd prefer you kept reading while keeping your focus off dead people.
Srsly, I didn't want to read the thread either but I got it done in two days by ignoring the dead people until it became relevant not to.

[Archon]

what the hell?

I'm

not scum! Really wanting to put a vote on Archon.

@Archon: Are you scum? If so, I'm puttin a vote on you because I don't wanna die

Yes. I'm the freaking Godfather [/sarcasm]

This?

yes, this.

I find that people who jokingly claim scum angry/sarcastically are often scum.

...oh for christ's sake...

And what proof do you have of that? [/humoring]

[hasdgfas]

question: would you prefer it if I attempted to fully catch up and continue hurting my head while reading this game and keep getting behind or pretty much "play from here forward" and go back when I need to look at something?

I'd prefer you kept reading while keeping your focus off dead people.
Srsly, I didn't want to read the thread either but I got it done in two days by ignoring the dead people until it became relevant not to.

I don't read the first post until I catch up fully because it helps my read better.

[Vi]

question: would you prefer it if I attempted to fully catch up and continue hurting my head while reading this game and keep getting behind or pretty much "play from here forward" and go back when I need to look at something?

I'd prefer you kept reading while keeping your focus off dead people.
Srsly, I didn't want to read the thread either but I got it done in two days by ignoring the dead people until it became relevant not to.

I don't read the first post until I catch up fully because it helps my read better.

Let me put things into perspective.

Which of these, as Town, is more important?

A) The quality of your reread
B) Posting anything of relevance

while two people are being run up to L-1 at LyLo

C) Voting with the popular wagon (as of this five minutes) against someone you've expressed

no opinion of

in your reread walls - to L-1 - at LyLo - on the grounds of one sarcastic post

You're stalling. It's obvious. Unless my opinion of your play is terribly off, you're better than this.

So

Confirm Vote: hasdgfas

(L-4), etc.

[Setael]

I'm all for motivating you to read and provide somthing useful.

unvote, vote: hasdfgas

[Beyond_Birthday]

question: would you prefer it if I attempted to fully catch up and continue hurting my head while reading this game and keep getting behind or pretty much "play from here forward" and go back when I need to look at something?

I'd prefer you kept reading while keeping your focus off dead people.
Srsly, I didn't want to read the thread either but I got it done in two days by ignoring the dead people until it became relevant not to.

I don't read the first post until I catch up fully because it helps my read better.

Let me put things into perspective.

Which of these, as Town, is more important?

A) The quality of your reread
B) Posting anything of relevance

while two people are being run up to L-1 at LyLo

C) Voting with the popular wagon (as of this five minutes) against someone you've expressed

no opinion of

in your reread walls - to L-1 - at LyLo - on the grounds of one sarcastic post

You're stalling. It's obvious. Unless my opinion of your play is terribly off, you're better than this.

So

Confirm Vote: hasdgfas

(L-4), etc.

Hm... does that mean that whoever has didn't vote for is more likely to be scum? (ie, Looker is more likely to be scum than Archon is has is scum.)

Otherwise, I don't see much point in stalling, unless, of course, has is trying not to say something today. But, that would insinuate that the game wouldn't end if we mislynch. (I'm concluding that if has is scum, whoever hasd voted for isn't scum.)

[hasdgfas]

fine then, speed read, I hope this doesn't come back to bite me.

Day 2: lovely, a self-hammer. People who do this as town should be blacklisted.
I'm not a big fan of zach's post 405. It seems really wishy-washy on Nuwen.


Day 3:
I disagree with this:

Only scum wants townies dead, no matter how annoying and distracting they are.

but that's more theory than scumminess here.
Pablo appears to have claimed that he's been playing badly and apologized for it. I'm never a fan of this.
Don't like spring's lurker hunting in 496 after Grimmy said he was modkilling instead of replacing.
I also don't like spring's theorizing in 504 about why Sipylus hasn't been replaced.
Pablo's 517 also rubs me the wrong way Building a case on spring then only FoSing her? Not to mention the fishing for how many mafia there are. I'll come back to this point later.
I don't like zach's 519 with a "gut feeling" of spring and ecto/setael that has a reason for spring but not for ecto/setael.
Looker's 523 is really scummy as it's just questions of "who is scummy" without even trying to contribute anything useful.
Post 528 by zach is strange to me. Rereading "to back up a gut feeling", as he put it, is strange to me, because it's like he was looking for any reason to find them scummy instead of going in with an open mind.
Post 535 by zach also rubs me the wrong way. Stubbornly saying "he's not scummy" and not even seeing if what she said makes sense seems like scum who already know who they're trying to go after and he's not one of them.
Post 545 is a common scum fallacy of "everyone does it, so why am I scummy for it?" Trying to shift the blame instead of defending themselves is more a scum move than a town move.
Post 563 by zach is also rather interesting in his response to Vi. I don't like the calling out of an earlier game to say "obvscum aren't always scum".
Post 570 by looker is strange. wanting to put pressure on everyone? I'm not sure what that helps if you call it a pressure vote.
Don't particularly like this by Vi:

Moreover, your insistence on defending everything that I've tossed at you instead of admitting "yes, I messed up" at any point solidifies my opinion that your intentions are not pure.

Why is defending yourself scummy in this case?
Post 584 by Looker really makes me want to vote him as unvoting to satiate someone is really scummy.
Post 596 is just absolutely ridiculous and makes me wonder what Archon is doing.
Post 612 is also ridiculous. Just saying "oh you're right"
Post 616. Ok, sorry. This game was just really frustrating me. I'm trying to do better. promise.
Post 627 just really confuses me. I don't know what's going on in it.
BB's post 652 response to me is pretty strange. I don't know why that's even in the post.
Post 659 is ridiculous and one of those things I hate seeing in games.
POST 687 IS A SCUM CLAIM. EVEN IF IT IS A "JOKE". If you want me to explain my strong feelings about this, I can. I don't mind hammering out of the blue seeing this sort of thing.
Post 708 by Vi: I'd go with A. What's with the stalling comment? I don't get it. Yes, I'm usually better than this, but the beginning of this game killed my brain as I tried to catch up.


ok, here's my thoughts:
Archon and Looker are both ridiculously scummy, but I don't think they're both scum. I think one is and one isn't. It could be either though.
Archon has flat-out claimed scum. Looker is trying to appease everyone. If they're both town I might just stop playing mafia for a while until maturity comes back to the forefront.
second choice would be one of {zach, Pablo}
Pablo hasn't been defending himself and has been expecting the rest of his play to make up for ignoring the accusations.
Zach seems way too stubborn for town to me. He doesn't seem to be able to adjust his thoughts when people bring up new things, when town should be open to seeing things they don't expect that can change their minds.

OH, before I forget. Pablo's 517 seems like scum trying to figure out how many scum the town thinks there are so he doesn't slip up and sound overcertain about how many there are because he knows.

[Zachrulez]

POST 687 IS A SCUM CLAIM. EVEN IF IT IS A "JOKE". If you want me to explain my strong feelings about this, I can. I don't mind hammering out of the blue seeing this sort of thing.

Please do.

I don't get how it's a scum claim. Maybe an explanation will help me see why it is. (I find Archon scummy anyway regardless.)

[hasdgfas]

ok, here we go:

what the hell?

I'm

not scum! Really wanting to put a vote on Archon.

@Archon: Are you scum? If so, I'm puttin a vote on you because I don't wanna die

Yes. I'm the freaking Godfather [/sarcasm]

Anyway, he says "I'm the Godfather". Now, although he put a /sarcasm tag at the end, I'm not paying so much attention to that.
The way I see mafia, everyone subconsciously

wants

to tell you their alignment. This is how we get scumtells and such, because people want to subtly tell you this in different ways.
Now, to scumclaims. Based on the above, scum want to tell you that they're scum, but they try not to in normal play because that would hurt them(obviously).
However, when they're frustrated and "joking", because the scum want to tell you that they're scum, they will do it, even if it is said in a "joking" manner. Does that make sense?

[Zachrulez]

Zach seems way too stubborn for town to me. He doesn't seem to be able to adjust his thoughts when people bring up new things, when town should be open to seeing things they don't expect that can change their minds.

I'm just stubborn as a charming personality trait. Adjusting thoughts and being open to seeing things aren't what I would call "town traits" as I would believe scum capable of playing that way just as easily as town in order to not be noticed.

[Zachrulez]

ok, here we go:

what the hell?

I'm

not scum! Really wanting to put a vote on Archon.

@Archon: Are you scum? If so, I'm puttin a vote on you because I don't wanna die

Yes. I'm the freaking Godfather [/sarcasm]

Anyway, he says "I'm the Godfather". Now, although he put a /sarcasm tag at the end, I'm not paying so much attention to that.
The way I see mafia, everyone subconsciously

wants

to tell you their alignment. This is how we get scumtells and such, because people want to subtly tell you this in different ways.
Now, to scumclaims. Based on the above, scum want to tell you that they're scum, but they try not to in normal play because that would hurt them(obviously).
However, when they're frustrated and "joking", because the scum want to tell you that they're scum, they will do it, even if it is said in a "joking" manner. Does that make sense?

I think I get that. You believe that was Archon telling us he was scum, and trying to hide it behind a joke so that we wouldn't actually act on it?

[Vi]

Day 2: lovely, a self-hammer. People who do this as town should be blacklisted.

Well it's only zwet.

Why is defending yourself scummy in this case?

I would expect Town to ask for a fair shake; admit that some things could have been done better but not flatly deny EVERY accusation against them. I mean, people HAVE attacked my intelligence before in terms that I don't care to repeat, but I'm not so dense as to put together a case that's ENTIRELY bad. (I hope.)

Your final picks for scum aren't objectionable IMO; I agree that Looker and Archon are probably not both scum. Out of curiosity, what do you think of springlullaby? What about Beyond_Birthday?

I see your 713. I can't say I feel as strongly, but that may be because I haven't seen this sort of phenomenon before (I've heard of it though).

Also,

Unvote: hasdgfas

.

[hasdgfas]

I think I get that. You believe that was Archon telling us he was scum, and trying to hide it behind a joke so that we wouldn't actually act on it?

Yes. I mean, I'm not sure how many people agree with me about "Scum try to tell us they're scum" and it's hard to explain, but it makes sense to me.

[Archon]

POST 687 IS A SCUM CLAIM. EVEN IF IT IS A "JOKE". If you want me to explain my strong feelings about this, I can. I don't mind hammering out of the blue seeing this sort of thing.

Please do.

I don't get how it's a scum claim. Maybe an explanation will help me see why it is. (I find Archon scummy anyway regardless.)

You have no idea how sick and tired of you I am right now.

[Archon]

*of hasdgfas, I mean.

[Beyond_Birthday]

I think I get that. You believe that was Archon telling us he was scum, and trying to hide it behind a joke so that we wouldn't actually act on it?

Yes. I mean, I'm not sure how many people agree with me about "Scum try to tell us they're scum" and it's hard to explain, but it makes sense to me.

I highly disagree. I consider it a null tell and I know for a fact that I claim SK in almost every game. (jokingly) as a reference to my name.

This doesn't change my opinion on Archon, but I think your reading too much into that statement.

[Vi]

POST 687 IS A SCUM CLAIM. EVEN IF IT IS A "JOKE". If you want me to explain my strong feelings about this, I can. I don't mind hammering out of the blue seeing this sort of thing.

Please do.

I don't get how it's a scum claim. Maybe an explanation will help me see why it is. (I find Archon scummy anyway regardless.)

You have no idea how sick and tired of you I am right now.

The feeling is mutual. Wanna claim?

@B_B: What IS your name supposed to be about? I'm guessing something from Death Note, but manga is entirely not my specialty.

[hasdgfas]

I think I get that. You believe that was Archon telling us he was scum, and trying to hide it behind a joke so that we wouldn't actually act on it?

Yes. I mean, I'm not sure how many people agree with me about "Scum try to tell us they're scum" and it's hard to explain, but it makes sense to me.

I highly disagree. I consider it a null tell and I know for a fact that I claim SK in almost every game. (jokingly) as a reference to my name.

This doesn't change my opinion on Archon, but I think your reading too much into that statement.

ok, early "random stage" saying it I somewhat understand if it's completely obvious it's a joke, but I still hate it and will push for anyone's lynch who claims scum/SK/whatever after page 1. Sometimes on page 1, depending on who it is.

[Looker]

Daystab: Looker

<--Blantantly stolen from Vi.

I want this ability.

Whoo! ::flicks sweat from brow:: Thought you had it for a minute, there, buddy. I started feelin pains ::jiggles breast:: all up in here.

what the hell?

I'm

not scum! Really wanting to put a vote on Archon.

@Archon: Are you scum? If so, I'm puttin a vote on you because I don't wanna die

Yes. I'm the freaking Godfather [/sarcasm]

This?

yes, this.

I find that people who jokingly claim scum angry/sarcastically are often scum.

...oh for christ's sake...

And what proof do you have of that? [/humoring]

Well

I

, for one, am humored. Thank you, Archon.

I'm all for motivating you to read and provide somthing useful.

unvote, vote: hasdfgas

Oohhh crap, they're gonna make you read, dude...

ok, here's my thoughts:
Archon and Looker are both ridiculously scummy, but I don't think they're both scum. I think one is and one isn't. It could be either though.
Archon has flat-out claimed scum. Looker is trying to appease everyone. If they're both town I might just stop playing mafia for a while until maturity comes back to the forefront.

Well I am appalled and I

do

declare. Apologies for the lack of gravity with which I conduct myself within this fortitude of gaming frenzy.

ok, here we go:

what the hell?

I'm

not scum! Really wanting to put a vote on Archon.

@Archon: Are you scum? If so, I'm puttin a vote on you because I don't wanna die

Yes. I'm the freaking Godfather [/sarcasm]

Anyway, he says "I'm the Godfather". Now, although he put a /sarcasm tag at the end, I'm not paying so much attention to that.
The way I see mafia, everyone subconsciously

wants

to tell you their alignment. This is how we get scumtells and such, because people want to subtly tell you this in different ways.
Now, to scumclaims. Based on the above, scum want to tell you that they're scum, but they try not to in normal play because that would hurt them(obviously).
However, when they're frustrated and "joking", because the scum want to tell you that they're scum, they will do it, even if it is said in a "joking" manner. Does that make sense?

Aha! See I TOLD you! I

TOLD

you! I knew it. ::Gets ready for the high fives:: Cause I know they're cummin

I think I get that. You believe that was Archon telling us he was scum, and trying to hide it behind a joke so that we wouldn't actually act on it?

See? Now look at that, we on the same page. Gimme sum ::Up high, brah::

I think I get that. You believe that was Archon telling us he was scum, and trying to hide it behind a joke so that we wouldn't actually act on it?

Yes. I mean, I'm not sure how many people agree with me about "Scum try to tell us they're scum" and it's hard to explain, but it makes sense to me.

And me, too. Archon is scum, GET'IM!

POST 687 IS A SCUM CLAIM. EVEN IF IT IS A "JOKE". If you want me to explain my strong feelings about this, I can. I don't mind hammering out of the blue seeing this sort of thing.

Please do.

I don't get how it's a scum claim. Maybe an explanation will help me see why it is. (I find Archon scummy anyway regardless.)

You have no idea how sick and tired of you I am right now.

"Sick and tired." The only way you would be sick and tired would be if you were tolerating something, such as can be experienced when putting up with a story you know is untrue or a joke that's not funny anymore. If you know he's wrong, if you know he's full of then tell us. We'd really like to know. Just let it ALL OUT!

I think I get that. You believe that was Archon telling us he was scum, and trying to hide it behind a joke so that we wouldn't actually act on it?

Yes. I mean, I'm not sure how many people agree with me about "Scum try to tell us they're scum" and it's hard to explain, but it makes sense to me.

I highly disagree. I consider it a null tell and I know for a fact that I claim SK in almost every game. (jokingly) as a reference to my name.

This doesn't change my opinion on Archon, but I think your reading too much into that statement.

Quite possibly. It'd be a shame if I got lynched for playing too much, though...

[Vi]

This is why unlimited dayvigs should be considered a normal role. *sigh*

Waiting on the cow again (a little more patiently this time).