Mini 737 - Hack Poetry Mafia (Game Over)

[Goatrevolt]

I coasted past your list don, because I didn't find it very representative. Considering Spolium was 3 on the list, and you were voting him, it clearly wasn't indicative of actual suspicion.

I thought it was just a sample for the point of arguing about dice rolling. So I said dice rolling is dumb, because it is.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Sekinj and Spoilum, what do you think of Don's proposal? You both posted after it without commenting on it.

I don't think Don's proposal is a terrible one, objectively speaking. The town's in a bit of a rut right now and if the general consensus is that we're the three most suspicious then it seems like a sensible strategy - chances are at least one of us is scum.

However, I really would suggest being careful with Don, whatever the town decides to do. Much like Spring he is coasting on his claim, and the point about a noticable change in his play post-claim seems to hold water.

I like this response.

Don, do you think that two docs and a watcher are more than enough power roles to balance the game? Do you think that there is no possibility of any other power roles?

[don_johnson]

first question can't answer. what are the two docs and watcher balancing against? second question: no. i wouldn't rule out more power rules. game balance is dependent on just that: balance. i have been in games where every player has a "power" role.

goat: the list was actually RC's. i suggested more than a dice roll. i used the dice roll as an example of a fair and indiscriminate way to handle the situation. i.e. by producing a list, any list, we have something to discuss; and how people decide on and react to that list may be very telling.

to wit: notice how sekinj is continuous in their mischaracterization of my post. dice are random, yes, but there was a list and an alternative method by which to generate a new list(popular vote). saying we

could

generate a random list as one option to go with my plan is very different than saying we

should

and nothing else.

[sekinj]

Don: I asked you a question for clarification, "How is a dice role not random?" instead of just answering or addressing that question you make a comment about how I am mis representing you statement. that is not true. I DID think you were saying we shoudl either random dice role or go in the order you suggested. Now that you have indirectly clarified, I can see where you are coming from.

I don't think it's problem to discuss a list of names... however, hasn't anyone considered that Spring is not going to make it another night? there is no one to protect her. I think the scum will take the chance of don seeing one of them to take out a confirmed townie.

[don_johnson]

Don: I asked you a question for clarification, "How is a dice role not random?" instead of just answering or addressing that question you make a comment about how I am mis representing you statement. that is not true. I DID think you were saying we shoudl either random dice role or go in the order you suggested. Now that you have indirectly clarified, I can see where you are coming from.

nice try. why would i address such a rhetorical question?(please, don't answer). how was my clarification "indirect"? i don't believe the initial statement was as ambiguous as you are trying to make it seem, and now you are trying to blame me for your poor reading comprehension.

I don't think it's problem to discuss a list of names... however, hasn't anyone considered that Spring is not going to make it another night? there is no one to protect her. I think the scum will take the chance of don seeing one of them to take out a confirmed townie.

i will see them. there is no "chance" from my pov. you seem like a zoo monkey, flinging shit at the fence to see what will stick. are you uncomfortable being at the top of that list?

[don_johnson]

I think the scum will take the chance of don seeing one of them to take out a confirmed townie.

ebwop: how is spring "confirmed" in your book? thinking and believing someone to be town and publicly endorsing them as 100% or confirmed is scummy imo.

Also, spring and I are arguing about her playstyle, a thing most other players have mentioned once or twice as well (I just chose not to grin and bear it). We are not arguing about a case. Therefore, it does not follow that one of us is scum and one is town. We are both town.

two slips in two pages.

vote: sekinj

[don_johnson]

ebwop: thinking and believing someone to be town and publicly endorsing them as 100% or confirmed is scummy imo.

should read: thinking and believing someone to be town is different than publicly endorsing them as 100% or confirmed, which is scummy imo.

[RedCoyote]

I would like to see some sort of analysis from sekinj - her top suspects or something similar - to give the town some insight into what she's doing other than getting entangled in a redundant argument.

Agreed, and, reading ahead, I'm not too thrilled with the way she responded to this request. Obviously I'm going to be more critical of anything thrown against me, but it seems very difficult to pull the OMGUS out of her argument.

I will touch on that a little more in a bit, but I wanted to say that this is a good post.

---

if there are two remaining scum the odds say we will hit one before this scenario occurs, no?

Probably so. I want it on record that I agree that, from here on out, don should be on spring and spring on don.

does anyone have a problem with this? we could roll dice and select a random order, or vote for top three suspects and choose the two with the most votes.

I completely disagree with a random order, but I think I could support some sort of democratic means of putting our list together.

The only problem, if you want to call it a problem, with the list being voted on that we're not effectively doing anything different than what we'd normally be doing at that point (coming to a concensus on who is the most scummy, lynch, repeat).

Moreover, this prospect probably looks a lot better from your point of view than it does to the rest of us, don.

---

After [don's] claim, I didn't see any other cases from you. You vote sekinj asking to talk more, Rhinox under deadline, and FHQ under deadline. This contrasts with your aggressive play earlier day 1 against Spring.

I can understand where you're coming from Lynx, but I have to disagree with this.

My main reason being that don has been given less of an opportunity to be as aggressive as he was earlier in the game. don, for better or for worse, strikes me as somewhat reactionary in his aggression. What I mean is, if don isn't being provoked, his posts seem more relaxed and broad.

That's not necessarily a good or a bad thing, just the vibe I've been getting from him as a player.

Incidentally, did the tussle between don/Spolium not do anything for you?

---

Way too hesitant to make spring angry. Is she a bomb that everyone has to tiptoe around? that is how everyone is treating her, and I'm just not going to do that.

Throughout the game I'd hardly say anyone has been tiptoeing around spring's presence.

Moreover, why is the goal "to make spring angry"? I was giving her the business, sure, but I'm not actively trying to piss her off. Why should I? Why should you? How will that help anyone?

I just wanted to make it clear that I hoped she posted over the weekend if she's going to be gone for that long, and I think you made it out to be more malicious than I had intended.

this vote as well as the justification ("I think this is a good place for D3's first wagon.") seems opportunistic.

Well, sekinj, I'm not sure who I want to lynch, but I do know who I want to pressure.

I've got to admit, I'm not particularly wild for L-3 sekinj. I don't think that, generally, putting someone at L-3 is showing much opportunism, especially given how I've been consistently narrowing down my possibilities.

Plus, I'm not sure why the feud is my fault. Spring could drop it any time as well. I'm going to tell her my opinion just as forcefully as she tells her opinion. I don't see how that puts me in the wrong.

It's not about fault, hon. You're exacerbating the situation. It's about how, look, let me see if I can come up with an analogy.

Let's say two kids hurt each other on the playground. They're both sitting there crying because one scraped her knee and the other bruised her elbow. One of them happens to be your daughter, the other girl happens to be some neighborhood girl you don't really know. When you go running over there, who are you going to comfort first? You may try to help both girls, but you're understandably much more concerned with your daughter's well-being than the other girl.

I feel like this is a similar situation. Y'all both got hurt, but since I feel extremely comfortable that spring has a good relationship to this town based on circumstances beyond our control, I'm going to give her more support than I'm going to give you.

---

Why then was Spring's lurking day 1, which was not sitewide, not enough for you to be suspicious of her?

What gave you the idea it wasn't? Explain.

The one thing that gives me pause is his pressure on me. I dislike his continued assertions that I'm scum, or scummy, but a distinct lack of any real reasons to back that up.

The beauty of being lurking scum is just that. But, then again, I really like the rest of this post too so...

---

I haven't seen many cases from you so far because you've been so involved in this argument with Spring. Your vote for no lynch further solidifies this point. Who sticks out to you today besides RC?

This.

I'm still not prepared to change my vote, it's on the person I most want to see lynched as of now.

I'm having trouble seeing how sekinj can work around the OMGUS in her case against me because, a, she hasn't given any notion beforehand that I was acting particularly scummy before I voted her, and b, she continues to show hostility about the whole situation between her and spring when I'm not the only one calling for

her specifically

to drop it.

---

I don't think it's problem to discuss a list of names... however, hasn't anyone considered that Spring is not going to make it another night? there is no one to protect her. I think the scum will take the chance of don seeing one of them to take out a confirmed townie.

At this point, then, I say it's worth it. Would you rather having the watcher nab one mafia for sure or risk watching someone else at random and getting nothing? This is somewhat of a departure from my previous sentiments, but if only because not everyone is sold on don, I think this will kill two birds with one stone.

---

To everyone who is weary of don's claim

, this is a setup-based point, but I personally would find it very odd for the mafia to have a Roleblocker and the town to have two Doctors without some form of town investigative role. What are your thoughts on that?

...and the game needs more Rhinox!

[sekinj]

Don: I asked you a question for clarification, "How is a dice role not random?" instead of just answering or addressing that question you make a comment about how I am mis representing you statement. that is not true. I DID think you were saying we shoudl either random dice role or go in the order you suggested. Now that you have indirectly clarified, I can see where you are coming from.

nice try. why would i address such a rhetorical question?(please, don't answer). how was my clarification "indirect"? i don't believe the initial statement was as ambiguous as you are trying to make it seem, and now you are trying to blame me for your poor reading comprehension.

because it was OBV from that rhetorical question and the subsequent comment that I misunderstood you. and you addressed it indirectly becuase you just went off and tattle-taled to the town, crying that I was mis-repping you, instead of saying, "No, sek, a dice role is random, but I was suggesting more than that."

I don't think it's problem to discuss a list of names... however, hasn't anyone considered that Spring is not going to make it another night? there is no one to protect her. I think the scum will take the chance of don seeing one of them to take out a confirmed townie.

i will see them. there is no "chance" from my pov. you seem like a zoo monkey, flinging shit at the fence to see what will stick. are you uncomfortable being at the top of that list?

how in the world is this throwing shit? I'm just warning the town that this grand plan of lynching down the line isn't going to work because we very well may lose our doc tonight. I wasn't accusing anyone of anything. I said "chance" because AS WE ALL KNOW there IS a hidden role mechanic, plus you may not know everything about all the other roles *gasp*. Maybe the scum have two roleblockers, or some other role that would hinder you.

and damn straight I'm unconfortable being at the top of that list, as I already said, or are you tryign to blame me for you poor reading comprehension?

[sekinj]

The only problem, if you want to call it a problem, with the list being voted on that we're not effectively doing anything different than what we'd normally be doing at that point (coming to a concensus on who is the most scummy, lynch, repeat).

Moreover, this prospect probably looks a lot better from your point of view than it does to the rest of us, don.

qft

Well, sekinj, I'm not sure who I want to lynch, but I do know who I want to pressure.

good answer. point taken.

sekinj 878 wrote:
I don't think it's problem to discuss a list of names... however, hasn't anyone considered that Spring is not going to make it another night? there is no one to protect her. I think the scum will take the chance of don seeing one of them to take out a confirmed townie.

At this point, then, I say it's worth it. Would you rather having the watcher nab one mafia for sure or risk watching someone else at random and getting nothing? This is somewhat of a departure from my previous sentiments, but if only because not everyone is sold on don, I think this will kill two birds with one stone.

I completely agree that it is worth it. I wasnt' bringing it up in order to have anyone change any night actions, I was bringing it up to show that don's idea of just lynching down the line isn't really going to work out. I think each new day bring new information and we should discuss accordingly.

@RC - Also, I can see the OMGUS in my statements against you. but I was just exploring your reasoning more, and seeing what others thought of it as well. I didn't think the vote, or responses warrented a vote change on my part.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

thinking and believing someone to be town is different than publicly endorsing them as 100% or confirmed, which is scummy imo.

I don't agree with this really. Many players state their opinions as if they're facts in mafia. I've seen town players make calls like this before and I think it all depends on the player.

Lynx 864 wrote:
After [don's] claim, I didn't see any other cases from you. You vote sekinj asking to talk more, Rhinox under deadline, and FHQ under deadline. This contrasts with your aggressive play earlier day 1 against Spring.


I can understand where you're coming from Lynx, but I have to disagree with this.

My main reason being that don has been given less of an opportunity to be as aggressive as he was earlier in the game. don, for better or for worse, strikes me as somewhat reactionary in his aggression. What I mean is, if don isn't being provoked, his posts seem more relaxed and broad.

That's not necessarily a good or a bad thing, just the vibe I've been getting from him as a player.

Incidentally, did the tussle between don/Spolium not do anything for you?

Not a bad assessment of Don's style. However, why has he been given any less opportunity to be aggressive than earlier today?

Don't you think it's somewhat scummy only to lash out when you're being provoked? It could be his playstyle, but one game with him I can't just give him the benefit of the doubt just yet.

The Spolium/Don dispute was more similar to earlier Don I'll give him that. I still find the change in play somewhat suspicious. If it hadn't been after a claim change, it'd be a completely different story. Once he claimed and everyone basically bought it, Don was not a focus anymore. And I think he took advantage of this thinking to stay low key. The change in play coincides with the claim basically which sticks out to me.



Post 884 by Sekinj comes off scummy to me. Like she's trying to be submissive and give in to all of RC's points to perhaps ease the pressure off herself. Be nice and cuddley to your attacker is a good way to avert some of the aggression.

[don_johnson]

I completely agree that it is worth it. I wasnt' bringing it up in order to have anyone change any night actions,

I was bringing it up to show that don's idea of just lynching down the line isn't really going to work out.

I think each new day bring new information and we should discuss accordingly.

^^^^ more certainty. sekinj, do you understand what i'm saying here?

[sekinj]

I completely agree that it is worth it. I wasnt' bringing it up in order to have anyone change any night actions,

I was bringing it up to show that don's idea of just lynching down the line isn't really going to work out.

I think each new day bring new information and we should discuss accordingly.

^^^^ more certainty. sekinj, do you understand what i'm saying here?

No. I don't.

[sekinj]

Post 884 by Sekinj comes off scummy to me. Like she's trying to be submissive and give in to all of RC's points to perhaps ease the pressure off herself. Be nice and cuddley to your attacker is a good way to avert some of the aggression.

So, I need to scumhunt, but I'm not allowed to put pressure on people or question them and then accept their answer? not really understanding this...

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Post 884 by Sekinj comes off scummy to me. Like she's trying to be submissive and give in to all of RC's points to perhaps ease the pressure off herself. Be nice and cuddley to your attacker is a good way to avert some of the aggression.

So, I need to scumhunt, but I'm not allowed to put pressure on people or question them and then accept their answer? not really understanding this...

'

Actually I mischaracterized it somewhat with your QFT and "completely agree" which were separate than your "good answer" and the OMGUS point. I simply associated all your signs of agreement with the attack when they were separate points. I thought all those answers were in response to RC's rebuttal, but some were just agreement with RC's other comments on the game. I admit my mistake. (Forgive me if this is hard to understand. It's difficult to convey your thought process and perspective sometimes.)

[sekinj]

yes. only the '@rc' part was my response to his answer of my inital suspicion on him.

i understand about difficulty conveying thoughts. don and i seem to be speaking greek to each other

[don_johnson]

speak for yourself. i am being quite clear. when i scumhunt i look for certainty, and you are exhibiting plenty of it.

[RedCoyote]

Also, I can see the OMGUS in my statements against you. but I was just exploring your reasoning more, and seeing what others thought of it as well. I didn't think the vote, or responses warrented a vote change on my part.

I understand the first part of this, but not the second part. Did you mean to say "a vote change on

your

part", referring to me?

---

However, why has he been given any less opportunity to be aggressive than earlier today?

Well, I was riding him pretty hard yesterday and you could say the same of spring during D1.

If we were the biggest don attackers of the game, I think we're both now relatively comfortable with don's claim. Honestly though Lynx, I think we need to stay away from any serious considerations of a don lynch until at least tomorrow.

Like she's trying to be submissive and give in to all of RC's points to perhaps ease the pressure off herself. Be nice and cuddley to your attacker is a good way to avert some of the aggression.

Maybe, but if that's the case then sekinj knows what buttons to press to get an

unvote

.

---

Rhinox, I think your player slot is cursed. Everyone who replaces into it starts lurking!
Goat, were you planning on giving us a sober version of your case on Spolium? I mean, are we supposed to take it seriously? Contrasting with D1, and given that you've left the impression that you think he's pretty apparently scummy, it's weird how little you've had to say to Spolium.

[Spolium]

speak for yourself. i am being quite clear.

Her point is that you're both having issues relating your arguments in a way which is meaningful to the other party.

when i scumhunt i look for certainty, and you are exhibiting plenty of it.

I think you're stretching that approach somewhat. Sekinj's point in 884, for example, was based on the reasonable observation that new information could come to light over the course of the three proposed lynches. This has little to do with certainty and plenty to do with personal assurance (protip: this is not scummy).

---
sekinj: Analysis please. Top three scummy players. Reasons. Thanks.

[Rhinox]

Answering Prod. Post coming later today. Apologies.

[sekinj]

Also, I can see the OMGUS in my statements against you. but I was just exploring your reasoning more, and seeing what others thought of it as well. I didn't think the vote, or responses warrented a vote change on my part.

I understand the first part of this, but not the second part. Did you mean to say "a vote change on your part", referring to me?

No, I'm saying that my suspicion of you was never strong enough to make me switch my vote to you. and my suspicion of you has gone down since questioning you.

[sekinj]

sekinj: Analysis please. Top three scummy players. Reasons. Thanks.

ok. ok. I'll get on it. it will be my next post....

[Rhinox]

So, couple things.

Firstly, what I don't like about sekinj. There has been the arguing with SL which thankfully seems to have passed for now, but now there is some bickering with don. What I don't see is whether sekinj thinks don is scummy, or if she just likes to argue and stir stuff up. I just don't see any scum hunting from sekinj at all since she was in the game. However, her very recent posts seem better in that regard but still seem more defensive to me than actually trying to scum hunt. Right now, I'm comfortable voting sekinj, and I'm prepared to lay out a more extensive post justifying all my reasons if need be.

vote: sekinj

On to Don's plan. Firstly, why talk about it like its some brilliant secret scheme to assure victory - if both don and spring are what they say they are, it should be completely obvious thats what should happen from here on out, barring gambits from one or the other to try to catch scum targetting someone else because scum are expecting spring to be watched and don to be protected.

What I don't like is what happens when its lylo and SL dies the night before and don claims to know who made the kill. On one hand, its good because we get into a 50/50 position on the lynch. On the other hand, I hope don can realize that the flaw in his plan is that we can't assume he is confirmed town right now. There are many other scenarios that could happen, but no point in speculating on them all right now.

-----------------------------------------

@spring: did you ever give a reason for why you protected spolium n1? I can't remember...


apologies for the absence... its a busy time right now - work, moving, planning for a wedding in june, taxes, procrastinating . I'll try to stay more active from here on out.

[don_johnson]

i know my plan is not a brilliant scheme to assure victory. but thanks for reminding me.

all plans have flaws.

spolium: i don't think i'm stretching at all.

I completely agree that it is worth it. I wasnt' bringing it up in order to have anyone change any night actions, I was bringing it up to show that don's idea of just lynching down the line

isn't

really going to work out.

the scope of the plan involves more than just "lynching down the line", and "isn't really" would make more sense if it was changed to "may not". defend much?

[Spolium]

the scope of the plan involves more than just "lynching down the line", and "isn't really" would make more sense if it was changed to "may not".

As I said already, I think your plan is probably the most reasonable course of action right now, but it

is

flawed insofar as it relies on the three named players still being the best choices for a lynch one/two days down the line. That may no longer be the case.

defend much?

It seems to me that you're getting bogged down in semantics. I've wasted enough time doing so in this game that I'd hate to see another townie do the same thing.

Feel free to rub my nose in this post if she flips scum though, it's the only way I'll learn.