Newbie 767 - Game Over!

For Newbie Games, which have a set format and experienced moderators. Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #125 (ISO) » Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:28 am

Post by delathi »

Korlash wrote:
... just becuase your vote was random doesn't justify leaving it on a wagon you dont agree with. And unvoting would not remove the cause of the discussion. What someone did doesn't disapear just becuase someone else unvotes.
True, however, then the conversation may have moved to other matters like, 'why did you switch your vote to put other-guy ate L-2?' And, I don't particularly think Wolf is scummy. My guess is that he's also fairly new like myself and still working on the conventions and etiquette of this game.
Porkins wrote: claiming on day 1
There are reasons why the mafia would leave, say, a doctor alive. Or a cop. It creates WIFOM and uncertainty in the town, which is what the scum wants. On another side of it; if someone claims vanilla day 1, and then comes out day 2 with a cop report, then the town has to deal with that lie, in some way.
Ok, I can see how it may be wise for the power townie to declare himself on day 1. It does probably sacrifice himself for a night kill, but the scum knows who the innocents are and are going to whack one of us for their night kill anyway, so it is a loss, but somewhat mitigated because there was going to be a loss either way and by claiming the power townie can prevent a guaranteed town lynch and guaranteed double loss. So, it does seem to be a pro-town move to claim when forced.

But I'm still fuzzy on how it is pro-town to force someone else to claim power townie without much to back up suspicions.
I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, you can't prove anything.
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Post Post #126 (ISO) » Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:17 am

Post by Korlash »

Delathi wrote:But I'm still fuzzy on how it is pro-town to force someone else to claim power townie without much to back up suspicions.
It isn't...
Muzzz wrote:I get your point insofar as that someone should have a chance to claim. But IMO, that chance is pretty much their first post after serious pressure. If they decide not to take the chance, is it wrong to continue with a lynch?
yes, becuase you still should need to know what they are. Only scum should be fine with blindly lynching people. Town should always have an inane fear of lynching a power role, and becuase of that are never ok with a lynch without a claim. (Certain circumtances not included that is)
Muzzz wrote:I just picked it as an example since it seemed at least somewhat connected to the discussion.
I don't think so. You apparently cared about Wolf getting to L-1, and you yourself put Porkens at L-1. I don't believe in coincidences in a game of mafia. So I'll put the question to you again, why are you so keen to get anyone and everyone at L-1?
Muzzz wrote:@Korlash: is Porkens scum? If not, who is?
I don't really see any hard evidence of Scum from Porkens right now, so if you want a definite answer I would have to say "I have no comment at this pont." And of course if you're asking me to tell you who is scum, then I would have to tell you to try finding them on your own.

However right now my biggest suspect is this guy who seems trigger happy without any of the "doubt" most town should instinctively have. Add to that his newest post which pretty much asked me who the scum were if it wasn't the guy he was voting which strikes me as some lazy way to find a new target to press.

still nothing conclusive though, but I hope that helps a little.
It's not my job to be right, it's my job to be convincing.

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Post Post #127 (ISO) » Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:28 am

Post by Wolf »

Well, it seems to me that nobody is particularly suspicious at the moment, and while I do have a case against Porkens, it is albeit a weak one, and do not find him scummy enough to be comfortable with him at L -1. He could still very much be town, so I'll
unvote
for the moment.
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Post Post #128 (ISO) » Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:22 am

Post by Wolf »

Oh wait, Porkens was already L -2 prior to my unvote. My bad for not counting, but I see no reason to vote for him again until he does something more suspicous. Actually, I have no case against Porkens right now, because I'm pretty convinced by the post that stated his "true" reasons for putting me at L -1. So in an attempt to get more information, the only thing I can do is
vote Ethan
. Talk, man!
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Post Post #129 (ISO) » Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:54 am

Post by muzzz »

Korlash wrote:yes, becuase you still should need to know what they are. Only scum should be fine with blindly lynching people. Town should always have an inane fear of lynching a power role, and becuase of that are never ok with a lynch without a claim. (Certain circumtances not included that is)
I agree that the town should be careful not to lynch one of their power roles. Maybe even a little fearful, but definitely not so much as to paralyze them.

I'm sure you'll agree with me that, at some point, the no-claim precaution has to go out of the window. Otherwise it becomes a way for the mafia to avoid lynches. So how far do you usually carry this idea?
Korlash wrote:I don't think so. You apparently cared about Wolf getting to L-1, and you yourself put Porkens at L-1. I don't believe in coincidences in a game of mafia. So I'll put the question to you again, why are you so keen to get anyone and everyone at L-1?
With Wolf it was a matter of status quo. The second and third vote on him kinda caught me by surprise. I wanted to analyze that situation, as well as the ensuing debate. While I hesitated considerably after Porkens' vote, I ended up making a similar decision again.

As for Porkens, I simply don't expect to find someone I'd like to lynch more.
Korlash wrote:However right now my biggest suspect is this guy who seems trigger happy without any of the "doubt" most town should instinctively have. Add to that his newest post which pretty much asked me who the scum were if it wasn't the guy he was voting which strikes me as some lazy way to find a new target to press.
I do hope you don't really think that badly of me. Because if I look like someone who needs help finding a target, I want to do something about that. :lol:

Seriously though, I wanted to see how you'd react if I prodded you just like that. Wording included.
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Post Post #130 (ISO) » Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:01 am

Post by Wolf »

After rereading the thread through, I have a question for Porkens.
Platypus sat on the fence, and then unvoted Ethan for no reason. Scum.
While I understand how you would find Platypus suspicious, the way you phrase the sentence seems to indicate that you are very sure of him being the scum. How can a town be so sure of anything, especially at this stage of the game? I would definitely be more wary, as I'm sure you'll agree that what Platypus did is not
that
big of a scumtell. Care to elaborate?
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Post Post #131 (ISO) » Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:04 am

Post by Platypus_Dude »

muzzz wrote:@Platypus_Dude: if I understood you correctly, you haven't made a serious vote yet. Why not?
1. I wasn't going to hop on the wolf wagon.
2. I don't find porkens too suspicious after reading all the events over.
3. What I find suspicious of delathi, the person I find the most suspicious, are minor, iffy things.
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Post Post #132 (ISO) » Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:08 am

Post by Platypus_Dude »

Muzzz wrote:As for Porkens, I simply don't expect to find someone I'd like to lynch more.
Isn't it a little early for that?

Wolf: Do you think that voting someone who should be prodded will do anything?

Mod: Has Ethan been prodded?
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Post Post #133 (ISO) » Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:22 am

Post by Wolf »

Platypus_Dude wrote: Wolf: Do you think that voting someone who should be prodded will do anything?
Actually, yes, we don't know if hes really been busy or actually lurking. I've read the other games, and usually its custom to vote for people that post little or lurk often as to get them talking. Only a scum would try and lay-low in a bid to prevent making mistakes. That, and I can't do much else at the moment. I think a player will only be prodded after 72 hours, so he still got like 20.
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Post Post #134 (ISO) » Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:07 am

Post by Archaist »

For now I will
unvote
, as I think Porkins has explained his actions well enough. I too would like to hear Ethan's supposed hidden reasons.
Ethan wrote:I have my reasons, but I keep them concealed.
If he has serious reasons that early in the game he might have seen something that could be very helpful for the town; although re-reading I don't know what that could be.
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Post Post #135 (ISO) » Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:42 am

Post by Porkens »

Muzzz wrote: You asked nicely and got a no. Then you asked again, got another no, and moved on. You're much closer to getting him lynched than getting him to claim.

Yeah, I'm confident enough. Are you?
I'm confident in my actions.
Phelan wrote: Porkens, do you think it would make sense if me or PlatypusDude now voted for you, asked you to claim, and justified it the same way you have been doing?
Sure; except at this point he'd be parroting me.
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Post Post #136 (ISO) » Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:05 pm

Post by Porkens »

Muzzz wrote: @Porkens: what's your perception of Korlash? Are you aware that you still haven't answered those two questions we discussed earlier?
Korlash's reluctance to see a hammer has given me good feelings. He's playing cautious, which is fine. I don't have a great read on him, admittedly, but I find other players more scummy at this time.
Phelan wrote: These two seem inconsistent. Why no conclusion on Muzz?
Muzzz had a reason to be on his random vote. Even though I usually find sticking to a random vote scummy, I get a town read from him based on his stated reasoning.
Korlash wrote:
I'm too lazy to check it out but I'm almost willing to bet this isn't the case. i believe I was responding to someone else who said scum could quick lynch, and thus that would have meant the L-1 and hammer were scum...

... now I'ms econd guessing myself, I guess I'll look...

Ye my 48 was in responces to Plat's "Only scum would want the day over on page 2" and so that part of it was the hypothetical revolving around that statement.
mmmk.
Archaist wrote: I too would like to hear Ethan's supposed hidden reasons.
QFT (quoted for truth)
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Post Post #137 (ISO) » Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:15 pm

Post by Claus »

Vote Count

Passengers on the right side of the plane, you may now open your windows and enjoy a nice view.

Image

Ethan has been prodded about 12 hours ago. If he doesn't pick up his prod in another 12 hours, I'll look for a replacement.

Platypus_Dude 2 - Phelan, Porkens
Porkens 1 - Muzzz
Wolf 1 - Ethan
Ethan 1 - Wolf

Not voting: Platypus_Dude, Delathi, Archaist, Korlash

With 9 people alive, it takes 5 to lynch!
Last edited by Claus on Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #138 (ISO) » Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:59 pm

Post by Wolf »

Sorry mod, Korlash had unvoted for Porkens on post 107
.

/*
* Fixed. Thanks!
*/
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Post Post #139 (ISO) » Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:16 pm

Post by Korlash »

Muzzz wrote:I'm sure you'll agree with me that, at some point, the no-claim precaution has to go out of the window. Otherwise it becomes a way for the mafia to avoid lynches. So how far do you usually carry this idea?
... If you have reason you can ask them to claim, if the town agrees youget more people to also ask them. If the person then refuses without any real reason to back up their refusal, you lynch them. I'm not saying don't lynch without a claim, I'm saying don't lynch without at least caring and trying to get a claim.

Usually anyone that refuses to claim without a vailid reason not to will be lynched on policy. Not sure if I agree with it all the time, but generally I like that rule.
Muzzz wrote:I do hope you don't really think that badly of me. Because if I look like someone who needs help finding a target, I want to do something about that. Laughing

Seriously though, I wanted to see how you'd react if I prodded you just like that. Wording included.
The old cop out "i was just doing it to judge your reaction" thing... Ok I'll bite, what did you plan on my reaction on that matter telling you exactly? What did you learn from my reaction? Why did you think the wording was so important and why was the exact phrase you used so important?

On a side note... what do you guys think we are going to do whent he bodies start piling up? Throw them out the plane? Or just let them sit there? Seems like something we need to plan for. :P
It's not my job to be right, it's my job to be convincing.

Star Trek Voyager Mafia! Ends in a Starfleet victory! Pomp, Circumstance, and Bloodwine for all!
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Post Post #140 (ISO) » Mon Apr 06, 2009 6:47 pm

Post by Wolf »

Korlash wrote: On a side note... what do you guys think we are going to do whent he bodies start piling up? Throw them out the plane? Or just let them sit there? Seems like something we need to plan for. :P
We were never really told if there was food on board, so... :shock:. Corpse on a plane sounds like a cheesy horror film. I'm still waiting for those hot air-stewardess, anytime now.
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Post Post #141 (ISO) » Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:53 pm

Post by Korlash »

I'm Mother freaking tired of these gosh darned mother freaking mafia on this mother freaking plane! grrr...
It's not my job to be right, it's my job to be convincing.

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Post Post #142 (ISO) » Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:57 pm

Post by Wolf »

Korlash wrote:I'm Mother freaking tired of these gosh darned mother freaking mafia on this mother freaking plane! grrr...
Hahahahaha.
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Post Post #143 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:45 am

Post by delathi »

Vote : Ethan
I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, you can't prove anything.
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Post Post #144 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:12 am

Post by Platypus_Dude »

Korlash wrote:On a side note... what do you guys think we are going to do whent he bodies start piling up? Throw them out the plane? Or just let them sit there? Seems like something we need to plan for.
Scum are required by law to keep bodies with their luggage. Failure to do so will get them a hefty body transportation fine, and they will lose their peanut privileges.

delathi: Why did you try to vote Ethan? You have to use the
[ /b] codes without the space for your vote to count..
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Post Post #145 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:25 am

Post by delathi »

Platypus_Dude wrote:
delathi: Why did you try to vote Ethan? You have to use the
[ /b] codes without the space for your vote to count..
Because there has been nearly three days without Ethan posting and nearly half a day without anyone else posting.

A semi-random partially unsubstantiated vote was a hope to get talk going again again. Ethan may be lurking and hiding, he may have forgotten he was playing, he may have gotten bored, he may be scum. Whichever way, you popped up to question me and here we have conversation again.

And to make it more official -
Vote : Ethan
I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, you can't prove anything.
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Post Post #146 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:27 am

Post by delathi »

Man, I suck.

Preview is your friend.

Vote : Ethan
I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, you can't prove anything.
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Post Post #147 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:59 am

Post by muzzz »

My day turned out busier than I had expected. It'll be at least twelve more hours before I have time to catch up.
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Post Post #148 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:17 pm

Post by Claus »

MordierS replaces Ethan, effective imeddiately.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVVmAG0RXmo
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Post Post #149 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:56 pm

Post by MordyS »

Hey everyone. This is simultaneously my first game on mafiascum, and my first game of Mafia ever. I just finished reading the last six pages, and I'm going to try and lay out my considerations. If I missed something (either in reading the posts, or in assumptions/misunderstandings about the game rules), please let me know.

The major narrative so far seems to go as such: The player for whom I'm taking over started a bandwagon on Wolf. He specified having secret motivations for doing so. As I don't share those motivations, I can't help and explain why he voted for Wolf. I can, however,
Unvote
.

Porkens, one of our two (illustrious, I'm sure) IC's, brought Wolf up to a L-1 vote. The best summation of his reasons for doing so appear in post 119. His central argument seems to be an attempt at stirring the pot. Though I take exception with a number of his observations for how the pot was stirred, he certainly stirred something. And voting up to an L-1 is not precisely the same thing as dropping the hammer. Especially since the only scum motivation for voting to an L-1 would be setting up a scum-partner to close the deal. As the deal wasn't closed (and looking at the votes now, Wolf is down to 0), presumably Porkens intention wasn't to setup Wolf's lynching. I cannot imagine a scum reason for voting to L-1 without closing the deal, especially this early in the game.

So, where does that leave us? I disagree that Wolf "reacted poorly to being at L-1," as Porkens suggested. It seems to me that new players will often betray emotion. The rigor of eliminating emotion in posts would presumably come with experience. Therefore I don't see his appeal to emotion as being indicative of guilt. Moreso, once the stress of votes were removed, Wolf became fairly conservative in his posting. When Porkens went after Platypus, Wolf responded with, "While I understand how you would find Platypus suspicious, the way you phrase the sentence seems to indicate that you are very sure of him being the scum. How can a town be so sure of anything, especially at this stage of the game?" The only scenario by which Wolf would need to defend Platypus is if both Wolf and Platypus were scum. The only thing they seem to have in common to me, though, is that they have both been under scrutiny by Porkens. I don't see any other indication of guilt here. Especially since if Platypus were in fact scum, he would presumably dropped the hammer on Wolf to lynch him.

(Though, now that I write it out, I can see a plausible scenario where, in fact, Wolf and Platypus are both scum. Wolf, by no fault of his own, accumulates votes reaching L-1. Platypus refrains from dropping the hammer so as not to condemn his teammate. When some momentum then began to build behind voting Platypus - Porkens and Phelan both voting for him - Wolf did not join in to apply pressure. This despite the fact that Wolf encouraged applying pressure w/r/t Ethan when he said pressuring idle players can be effective. This would also explain Wolf's attempts to defend Platypus, and possibly I'm being too generous in my reading above. He is not being cool and collected, but rather attempting to save his teammate very casually.)

I don't feel I know enough about Muzz, Delathi, Archaist, or Korlash yet to make any kind of more informed decision. As is, though, I don't feel there's a preponderance of evidence yet. I'll
Vote Platypus
though. This will put him at three votes. I also invite Wolf to bring that number to four. It will still be L-1, putting the same pressure on Platypus that was once on Wolf, and it will also give some confidence that Wolf and Platypus are not working together. Obviously if someone drops the hammer immediately afterward, that would be a good indication in-and-of itself.

P.S. I'm thrilled to be playing with you guys. One quick note: The Passover holiday starts tomorrow so I'll be a little sporadic over the next week. I will make my best effort to post at least once a day, though. But I may have to miss one because of the holiday.

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