Mini 737 - Hack Poetry Mafia (Game Over)

[springlullaby]

@SL - I'm scummy because I think the town's doc shouldn't sit in the background for "certain periods" of the game?

No. You are backtracking and making me repeat myself.

You are scummy because your vicious and offensive insinuations about me are false and unjustified.

You implied that I did not contribute or scumhunt this game. I did, and this despite my 'sitting in the backgrounds': this make your accusations a total lie on top of being unproductive.

Furthermore, you make this reproach toward me while yourself have not scumhunted

at all

this game, and this hypocrisy make me definitively think that you are scum using appeal to emotion to try to make yourself look towny.

If you are town, why the hypocrisy?

[springlullaby]

No. Fail. That other dead guy, fhqwhgads also commented on your play style more than once in a similar vein. We all know what alignment he turned out to be. Stop taking this personally. If your we think your play sucks and you disagree, leave it there. This isn't scumhunting, it's a personal feud. See my previous point.

This is false:

The difference between yourself and sekinj is that you have reproached me my playstyle, but when I told you that you could stuff it because this was the way I was going to play, you stopped the pointless bickering.

Furthermore you have not made false insinuations: sekinj vicious comment insinuate that I have not contributed at all, which is not true.


My voting sekinj is not OMGUS. I am not an OMGUS person, to wit my previous play:

I did not think you were scum despite you reproaching my play. I can understand a certain level of town frustration and expected it, but sekinj's vicious attack are unreasonable and misrepresentatives. And this is why she is scummy.

What in sekinj's play do you think is town beside her attacks on me?

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Sorry long long long weekend starting basically on thursday very similar to Goat's last post. I have a huge test tomorrow so I'm gonna have to cram tonight. Catch up post coming tomorrow afternoon.

[sekinj]

The difference between yourself and sekinj is that you have reproached me my playstyle, but when I told you that you could stuff it because this was the way I was going to play, you stopped the pointless bickering.

So I'm scum for not taking it when you told me to "stuff it"? I guess I really just don't like people telling me to stuff it. And it takes two to bicker...

As far as hypocrisy, how do you, as town, explain those "certain periods" that you feel justified to sit in the background? How can a town power role play like that? All I have ever said is that I don't like your attitude or they way you have chosen to play in this game. And as far as I can see, most other players agree with me (if not with my persistance).

The only thing anti-town I have done is spend way too much time responding to you. However, I do beleive it has made a ripe bed for scumhunting. Look at RC for example. His jump on my wagon I found very supicous.

[don_johnson]

Well, let's just hope you and Spring are town, eh?

sorry, i don't speak canadian.

[springlullaby]

The difference between yourself and sekinj is that you have reproached me my playstyle, but when I told you that you could stuff it because this was the way I was going to play, you stopped the pointless bickering.

So I'm scum for not taking it when you told me to "stuff it"? I guess I really just don't like people telling me to stuff it. And it takes two to bicker...

As far as hypocrisy, how do you, as town, explain those "certain periods" that you feel justified to sit in the background? How can a town power role play like that? All I have ever said is that I don't like your attitude or they way you have chosen to play in this game. And as far as I can see, most other players agree with me (if not with my persistance).

The only thing anti-town I have done is spend way too much time responding to you. However, I do beleive it has made a ripe bed for scumhunting. Look at RC for example. His jump on my wagon I found very supicous.

You are doing it again: backtracking and attacking me on false basis.

1. I have explain why I felt justified to sit in the background already.

2. This choice of playstyle have not prevented me from scumhunting nor contributing significantly

contrarily to what you have insinuated.

3. This make your criticisms void and scummy because you cannot justify them.

4. I'm noting here the appeal to majority.

5. You are scummy because your criticism of my play is irrational and misrepresentative. But you are right, you are also scummy because you spent significant time pestering me while you have done nothing protown of note.


In sum, what you are doing here is a prime example of scummy emotional shit stirring: you are encouraging mob mentality which rely on existing frustration toward my play to both discredit me and create sympathy toward yourself, to the disregard of rational analysis.

And this while you have contributed nothing protown so far.

[Spolium]

sorry, i don't speak canadian.

heh

[sekinj]

spring: responding to you is not making me laugh anymore, so I am done. I will only reply when I think you have something worthwhile to say.

What is your opinion on RC?

[springlullaby]

spring: responding to you is not making me laugh anymore, so I am done. I will only reply when I think you have something worthwhile to say.

Yes, because you are scum and cannot reply in good faith.

What is your opinion on RC?

My opinion on RC is that he has tied himself to Don Jonson and is low priority for now.

Now, justify your question.

--------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, before going

don_johnson - not a good lynch candidate, linked to RC

Goatrevolt - Lurkerscum on the way to completion.

fhqwhgads - banking on Ice

Lynx The Antithesis - I'm amending this one, prolly town

RedCoyote - tied to Don.

Rhinox - 50/50, needs to be observed

sekinj - scum.

Spolium - not actually scum.


------------------------

My vote is not changing.

It is easy for the lazy and for those whose feathers I have ruffled to want to dismiss my case on sekinj as OMGUS.

And it is easier for scum sekinj to bank on that.

[TonyMontana]

Vote Count

After town mourns the doc, and the scum at least acts like,
The ladies in town break into a huge catfight.
The town wanna stop it, but then again, no
Or a man, who makes potions in a, traveling show.

L-3

sekjin

(2) springlullaby, redCoyote
L-3

Spolium

(2) goatrevolt, don_johnson

Not Voting: (5) fhqwhgads | Rhinox | Spolium | sekjin | Lynx

With 9 people alive, it takes

5 votes to lynch

2 weeks left until deadline

[RedCoyote]

I was just wondering if you noticed that you were holding the same take on it as the person you are voting for as scum...

Well, I'm trying to explain it to you as best I can.

I don't think there is any significant possibility that spring is scum based on circumstances not related to this argument, but I think there is still a significant possibility that you are scum.

I think the argument is distracting, emotion-fueled, and judgment-clouding, hence those who contibute in said argument seem anti-town to me.

Seeing as how I think spring cannot be scum at this point, you are unfortunately given the brunt of my frustration.

I understand we've now come to a similar point of view on the role layout, but you have to understand it's getting harder for me to write these things off.

---

is this a prediction or do you know? I just find this odd...

It was a hypothetical made for the purposes of arguing a point.

---

she protects me, i watch her. scum cannot win this game if she and i are town.

Why do you say this don? If there are at least two scum left, don't you think, theoretically, they could get it down to a lylo of 3 town and 2 scum with at least the possibility of a mislynch?

---

The only thing anti-town I have done is spend way too much time responding to you. However, I do beleive it has made a ripe bed for scumhunting. Look at RC for example. His jump on my wagon I found very supicous.

Back up.

You admit your bickering with spring is anti-town, yet you find me suspicious for calling you out on it? What?

---

My opinion on RC is that he has tied himself to Don Jonson and is low priority for now.

I'd say, rather, I've tied myself to the idea that you and don are telling the truth based on what I've read and witnessed from both of you thus far.

Goatrevolt - Lurkerscum on the way to completion.

I feel similarly, but pinning a Goatscum case down is proving difficult. Like you said, the biggest offense he's guilty of is lurking.

fhqwhgads - banking on Ice

And how.

Lynx The Antithesis - I'm amending this one, prolly town

Why?

---

Spolium, I'm frustrated by your lack of offense. I know you were dispirited with Budja's flip. You saw something in spring earlier, but you left those suspicions at the door on account of some role explanation. Where are you heading next?

As for me, I'm still comfortable with sekinj, Goat, or Spolium being our picks. I've seen nothing that makes Lynx or fhq any less town, my opinion of don and spring is unchanged, and Rhinox is at that tipping point between the two sides, but I'm a little less worried with him than the other three.

[fhqwhgads]

...so I explained why Spring was lurking at the back of my mind.

At least we have evidence that your mind is anchored in reality.

The difference between yourself and sekinj is that you have reproached me my playstyle, but when I told you that you could stuff it because this was the way I was going to play, you stopped the pointless bickering.

Point taken, but that does not mean I changed my opinion.

What in sekinj's play do you think is town beside her attacks on me?

Putting words in my mouth much?

Yeah... erm. You see, the problem I have now, is I have to disregard both your and Spring's arguments against each other, because there is some indeterminate amount of personal opinion involved.

I don't think she's town. I don't know, because what she is saying gives me no read at all. I do agree that she should drop it and deal with it. The rest of us did. And despite that, we're one mafia member down. Let's focus on what is important here.

The only thing anti-town I have done is spend way too much time responding to you. However, I do beleive it has made a ripe bed for scumhunting. Look at RC for example. His jump on my wagon I found very supicous.

Excuse me if I feel that came out of nowhere. Please elaborate.

[Spolium]

Spolium, I'm frustrated by your lack of offense.

So am I.

Where are you heading next?

Well, I've still got my eye on don - I get the impression that he's more willing to rock the boat now that he's generally considered to be town. However, his vote was poorly jusitifed and his subsequent play strikes me as manipulative, so I'm wary of him at the moment.

Spring makes a good point about sekinj not doing much (any?) actual scumhunting. At least, if she is then it's not obvious, and given her fairly prolific posting this is quite a concern.

I would like to see some sort of analysis from sekinj - her top suspects or something similar - to give the town some insight into what she's doing other than getting entangled in a redundant argument. I'd say the same of Spring, but I doubt she's going to budge on her approach.

[don_johnson]

---

she protects me, i watch her. scum cannot win this game if she and i are town.

Why do you say this don? If there are at least two scum left, don't you think, theoretically, they could get it down to a lylo of 3 town and 2 scum with at least the possibility of a mislynch?

it is a possibility, but i think we can make it work. lynch down the line. if there are two remaining scum the odds say we will hit one before this scenario occurs, no? also, if we kill one scum then SL and i are no longer as valuable and could be scrutinized a bit more, plus, through role reveals we can better establish the

actual

set-up in case someone is fake claiming.

it may take some thinking, but coming up with an order could be somewhat revealing. lets say we agree, for instance, to lynch in this order:

1) sekinj
2) goat
3) spolium

does anyone have a problem with this? we could roll dice and select a random order, or vote for top three suspects and choose the two with the most votes. we only need one more scum to bag a town win if SL and i are town. if she or i are lieing i think it would come out during the next two days, no? scum will also be forced to be extremely picky with their nightkills and if they target me the kill might fail, and if they target spring then we have them. please explain if i'm missing something, but this game seems largely based in probability factors and i believe through discussion and implementation of this strategy, we have an extremely probable chance of winning.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

linx: how has my hunting "slipped"? what exactly has changed in my playstyle? mafia is a dynamic game and change is inevitable, so unless you can point to something specific and relevant i suggest you focus on something more productive

.

Your playstyle has changed to me based off your scumhunting. After your claim, I didn't see any other cases from you. You vote sekinj asking to talk more, Rhinox under deadline, and FHQ under deadline. This contrasts with your aggressive play earlier day 1 against Spring. Though you're recent attack against Spolium was much more similar to day 1. I saw a somewhat fade into the background after your claim. On top of this, I saw a definite buddy up to Spring with posts 483, 497, and 525.

If either you or Spring is scum(I believe you to be much more likely scum) then the scum gets a free ride to endgame. I'm not sure about your plan, but I'd much rather not like to leave it up to dice roll if we did settle on something like this. I certainly am lacking in the leads at the moment so I can entertain the idea. I'd much prefer to vote any candidates and then vote on the top one.

My three top suspects at the moment are Don, Sekinj, and Spolium.

[sekinj]

The only thing I wanted to say is that I really wasn't trying to kick dirt at spring or cause a big thing when I asked her if she wasn't going to post over the weekend. I just recall, from this game, her being, like me, traditionally more absent over the weekend.

Way too hesitant to make spring angry. Is she a bomb that everyone has to tiptoe around? that is how everyone is treating her, and I'm just not going to do that.

Anyways, that's neither here nor there. I don't know why sekinj couldn't have just dropped this; I see it as a lose/lose situation for her, at least from my point of view. sekinj is risking coming across as bitter at best, and, at worst, scum trying to distract the town by constantly provoking spring.

I don't agree with this modkill business, but until I feel more like sekinj's motivations for dragging this feud out are sincere (regardless as to whether or not I think spring is just as guilty of dragging it out, I'm fairly confident that spring's town), I think she has certainly earned my vote: sekinj.

I think this is a good place for D3's first wagon.

this vote as well as the justification ("I think this is a good place for D3's first wagon.") seems opportunistic.

Plus, I'm not sure why the feud is my fault. Spring could drop it any time as well. I'm going to tell her my opinion just as forcefully as she tells her opinion. I don't see how that puts me in the wrong.

Also, spring and I are arguing about her playstyle, a thing most other players have mentioned once or twice as well (I just chose not to grin and bear it). We are not arguing about a case. Therefore, it does not follow that one of us is scum and one is town. We are both town.

I'm curious as to why RC has dropped off everyone's scum list when he was pretty high on some ppl's Days 1 and 2?

[Spolium]

As I said when I unvoted him, his replies generally read town. That and the "defence" argument could only be taken so far. Still worth bearing in mind for sure, but I don't think RC has done anything particularly scummy since then.As I said when I unvoted him, his replies generally read town. That and the "defence" argument could only be taken so far. Still worth bearing in mind for sure, but I don't think RC has done anything particularly scummy since then.

[sekinj]

you can say that again

[Goatrevolt]

I feel similarly, but pinning a Goatscum case down is proving difficult. Like you said, the biggest offense he's guilty of is lurking.

You're struggling to pin a case on me because I'm town, and there isn't anything to pin on me. The lurking point has been blown out of proportion, probably because it is really the only point of attack you have.

RC: My lurking, which you yourself acknowledged was a sitewide absense, is enough for me to be a top suspect of yours. Why then was Spring's lurking day 1, which was not sitewide, not enough for you to be suspicious of her? Inconsistent application of scum tells?

it may take some thinking, but coming up with an order could be somewhat revealing. lets say we agree, for instance, to lynch in this order:

1) sekinj
2) goat
3) spolium

does anyone have a problem with this? we could roll dice and select a random order, or vote for top three suspects and choose the two with the most votes. we only need one more scum to bag a town win if SL and i are town.

Um...no.

Rolling dice is a surefire way to fail. Behavioral analysis, people.

Your playstyle has changed to me based off your scumhunting. After your claim, I didn't see any other cases from you. You vote sekinj asking to talk more, Rhinox under deadline, and FHQ under deadline. This contrasts with your aggressive play earlier day 1 against Spring. Though you're recent attack against Spolium was much more similar to day 1. I saw a somewhat fade into the background after your claim. On top of this, I saw a definite buddy up to Spring with posts 483, 497, and 525.

People play differently based on how they are perceived. I don't think this is much of a tell.

Plus, I'm not sure why the feud is my fault. Spring could drop it any time as well. I'm going to tell her my opinion just as forcefully as she tells her opinion. I don't see how that puts me in the wrong.

Regardless of who is in the wrong, you should just step up and end it. Your contribution this game could be summed up nearly entirely as:

"I think spring is town, but I disagree with her playstyle." I'm not going to lie, I have issues with how she has played this game as well. I think the "I'm going to do what I want, nah, nah, nah, nah" hurts the town, and is dumb play. But you haven't really moved on.

As for RC: I have him as town because he has consistently shown a townie mindset in how he handles situations. By that, I mean he changes his opinions based on new information in a fairly logical manner. For example, he was suspicious of spring, but amended that to her being likely town based on new information, which speaks of a townie legitimately hunting for scum rather than scum hunting for an available mislynch. The one thing that gives me pause is his pressure on me. I dislike his continued assertions that I'm scum, or scummy, but a distinct lack of any real reasons to back that up. Even now, he's looking for a reason to pin on me, rather than looking for scum based on reasons discovered. In other words, it's starting from the conclusion of me=scum, and then trying to build the supporting case, rather than starting from a neutral point and asking whether or not I am scum or town.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Sekinj, I agree with you that I'm not a fan of Spring's play or attidue at points during this game. Things like her "I refuse to defend against crappy arguments" and "this is how I play" don't strike me well. But there's only so much you can do about it. I still believe her vote on you was fueled more on the feud than actual scumminess.

I haven't seen many cases from you so far because you've been so involved in this argument with Spring. Your vote for no lynch further solidifies this point. Who sticks out to you today besides RC?

Lynx The Antithesis - I'm amending this one, prolly town

I forgot to say something about this. What influenced your change of opinion? Especially considering the fact that I have largely not been participating in Day 3 so far.

Sekinj and Spoilum, what do you think of Don's proposal? You both posted after it without commenting on it.

[Spolium]

you can say that again

As I said when I unvoted him, his replies generally read town. That and the "defence" argument could only be taken so far. Still worth bearing in mind for sure, but I don't think RC has done anything particularly scummy since then.

[Spolium]

Sekinj and Spoilum, what do you think of Don's proposal? You both posted after it without commenting on it.

I don't think Don's proposal is a terrible one, objectively speaking. The town's in a bit of a rut right now and if the general consensus is that we're the three most suspicious then it seems like a sensible strategy - chances are at least one of us is scum.

However, I really would suggest being careful with Don, whatever the town decides to do. Much like Spring he is coasting on his claim, and the point about a noticable change in his play post-claim seems to hold water.

[sekinj]

Sekinj and Spoilum, what do you think of Don's proposal? You both posted after it without commenting on it.

I don't think random voting is good idea especially Day 3. Plus, I'm rather against my own lynch... in this game anyway.

[don_johnson]

Also, spring and I are arguing about her playstyle, a thing most other players have mentioned once or twice as well (I just chose not to grin and bear it). We are not arguing about a case. Therefore, it does not follow that one of us is scum and one is town. We are both town.

you say this with certainty. also, spring is arguing about a case. the one against you.


this game is in a rut, but i am fairly confident we can work this out as long as SL protects me. mafia games are balanced. right now its a watcher and two doctors against a roleblocker and an unknown(s). determining if SL and I are fakeclaiming should get easier as time passes. from my pov it is obviously more probable that SL is lieing, but i understand your feelings on the situation, lynx. outside of my shoes i would be more suspicious of my claim as well. spolium's reaction to my suggestion is enough for an unvote for now. Goat kind of coasted past my suggestion, focusing on the dice roll idea as opposed to the suggested list. also, sekinj characterized my idea as "random voting", which it was not.

unvote

[sekinj]

how is a dice role not random? just because you limited the list to three doesn't make it not random.