War in Heaven II - Spirit of Vengeance (Over!)

[populartajo]

So, all players to L-1. Rolf and nuwen can help with this.

What DGB said. All players to L -1 means scum win instantly, dosn't it? If the scum can do 6 rage points a week, or whever, then if we put everyone to lynch -1, the scum kill everyone who's not scum basically at once, don't they?

You're right that if we get to a point where the last person on the list is scum it would be bad; I already pointed that out, remember? However, q21 made a good point that DGB is probably town, and she's goign to be the last person left on the list.

Besides, "brining everyone to lynch -1" also isn't ideal because it means we're taking a long time random hurting everyoen and not actually killing anyone; your plan would give scum pleant of time to build up rage points and win the game, since we're not going to kill scum under your plan.

.

yeah but we will have them at l-1 so q21 or nuwen or rolf cant finush them when all the townies are dead, isnt this all what q21 plan was about? killing each other but rolf/nuwen/q2!?
also learn to read, did you go to the same school with fonz?

[populartajo]

I imagine rolf calling me scum even when he refuses to answer blatant scummy shit. Interesting to note that Yos thinks Im scum just because Im attacking his predecesor without readinf the thread. Dude, read the thread, you are better than that.

All I know is, I would expect the scum to want to whittle down a townie with full hitpoints like me, and I would expect scum to try to find out how many hitpoints everyone has. Also, you lied about being confirmed. Plus, you trying to shoot down q21's plan, and instead replace it with a plan that seems to guarentee a scum win, makes me even more convinced you are scum.

you are so full of shit, yos.
1. you are not a townie.
2. my plan was to get a fallen arel not to find out how many hitpoints everyone has
3. i never lied about confirmed. im the most protown player of this group. face it
4. i NEVER tried to shoot down q21 plan. Im improving it.

So, please DIE.

[populartajo]

Yos, you think rolf is town?

[populartajo]

Is it a possibility that there are scum Ophan? Sure. Do I think DGB is scum? No.

Where's the case against Xyl? I don't see it. Where's the proof in his behavior? I see plenty of evidence for Rofl scum, what with his vigilantism, and the like. The like, in this case, being 9 deaths almost entirely do to his own meddling. But I don't see Xyl as scum. I don't see it, I can't see it!

This is one lynch too many, one I feel is going to end in absolute disaster for the Town! Xyl is Town until proven Scum. And you haven't even shown me stuff to say he's scum!

The fact that not one of you can put forth more evidence than this is just proving that Xyl is town, and that everyone on his wagon is sadly delusional.

If you truly believe Xyl is scum, sit down and write me the argument. If you can. I don't think there is one.

wow, tajo, you were right, i shouldn't have called giuseppe out, now he's just playing dumb

this was when xyl was the "lynch" of the day. Giuseppe is playing dumb to hurt someone he knows he is town. Did you forget this, rolf?
fuck, how much scum do these guys have to be?

[populartajo]

@poptartajo

All I know is that if we hurt each other, as you suggest, as soon as a TOWN player is within 6 points of being dead, the scum will strike with rage points. However, a SCUM player within 6 rage points of being dead will survive. So that part of your plan (I don't even understand the rest) is tantamount to letting the scum kill all the townies as they please.

much faster than what they are doing here, speicially knowing that scum are so controlling the order of people dying, desesperately trying to frame me as scum?

[Nuwen]

Tajo, for the kill list to fail, only the final person on the list would have to be scum. DGB is pretty much confirmed town. Even if the penultimate player on the list is scum, scum will be outnumbered by either 3:2 (one of Nuwen/Rofl, DGB, q21) or 4:1 (Rofl, Nuwen, DGB, Q21).

What you're suggesting is a way in which scum can

1. Get all players low.
2. Snipe off townies simultaneously using rage. Theoretically, they could kill 6 L-1 players at once. Even if Rofl, Nuwen, and Q21 aren't included in that pool, it places them in a position against 3-4 scum.

[populartajo]

Tajo, for the kill list to fail, only the final person on the list would have to be scum. DGB is pretty much confirmed town. Even if the penultimate player on the list is scum, scum will be outnumbered by either 3:2 (one of Nuwen/Rofl, DGB, q21) or 4:1 (Rofl, Nuwen, DGB, Q21).

What you're suggesting is a way in which scum can

1. Get all players low.
2. Snipe off townies simultaneously using rage. Theoretically, they could kill 6 L-1 players at once. Even if Rofl, Nuwen, and Q21 aren't included in that pool, it places them in a position against 3-4 scum.

this makes sense but it assumes that scum are not going to kill dgb
what is preventing them for not killing them and throw this to shit.
they using rage on q21 instead of dgb its really really strange and it confims my fear that scum agree with this plan because they have something prepared for us.
if we put everyone on L-1, it would be easier for you and q21 to snipe everyone. it doesnt matter if scum snipes us, since they would also be at l-1 in case something goes wrong.

[Nuwen]

... No, it actually assumes that DGB

will

die, just not prior to anyone else on the list. She needs to stay at 7 or 8 health until it's time to knock her off the laundry list.

Your plan also includes more room for "accidents" to occur. There's no point in using a system that provides scum with a hypothetical out that can neither be split as a town or scum action.

[populartajo]

... No, it actually assumes that DGB

will

die, just not prior to anyone else on the list. She needs to stay at 7 or 8 health until it's time to knock her off the laundry list.

Your plan also includes more room for "accidents" to occur. There's no point in using a system that provides scum with a hypothetical out that can neither be split as a town or scum action.

why does she need to die is we are assuming she prob is confirmed town?
anyways, my plan gives an out to town, in case scum have enough rage to kill q21 before. With all players but the choses ones at L-1, town will be likely to be killed fast but scum will be too.
wasnt this the idea of q21?

[populartajo]

hurt: fonz

[Nuwen]

... No, it actually assumes that DGB

will

die, just not prior to anyone else on the list. She needs to stay at 7 or 8 health until it's time to knock her off the laundry list.

Your plan also includes more room for "accidents" to occur. There's no point in using a system that provides scum with a hypothetical out that can neither be split as a town or scum action.

why does she need to die is we are assuming she prob is confirmed town?
anyways, my plan gives an out to town, in case scum have enough rage to kill q21 before. With all players but the choses ones at L-1, town will be likely to be killed fast but scum will be too.
wasnt this the idea of q21?

Because an assumption is never as good as a confirmed flip. The alignments of everyone on the list really don't matter, excluding the fact that we'll be hitting all scum in the game, sans the Nuwen/Rofl dichotomy. The towniest players are getting killed last to prevent the situation you're fearing, Tajo. It's a safe way for the town to kill off multiple scum without ever risking a lose.

[populartajo]

... No, it actually assumes that DGB

will

die, just not prior to anyone else on the list. She needs to stay at 7 or 8 health until it's time to knock her off the laundry list.

Your plan also includes more room for "accidents" to occur. There's no point in using a system that provides scum with a hypothetical out that can neither be split as a town or scum action.

why does she need to die is we are assuming she prob is confirmed town?
anyways, my plan gives an out to town, in case scum have enough rage to kill q21 before. With all players but the choses ones at L-1, town will be likely to be killed fast but scum will be too.
wasnt this the idea of q21?

Because an assumption is never as good as a confirmed flip. The alignments of everyone on the list really don't matter, excluding the fact that we'll be hitting all scum in the game, sans the Nuwen/Rofl dichotomy. The towniest players are getting killed last to prevent the situation you're fearing, Tajo. It's a safe way for the town to kill off multiple scum without ever risking a lose.

then i should be the last to die before dgb.
do you think my plan is scummy?

[Nuwen]

do you think my plan is scummy?

Yes.

It presents the town with more ways to make incipient or careless mistakes - if anyone, for any reason, decides to put on a vigilante badge and go a'huntin', the town leaves itself open to be fucked over by both scum

and

a lone town player (which have been characteristic of this game).

I'm especially worried because you're trying to maneuver yourself into a kill position that

only scum would want to take from a town player

. If you're town, you should have no motivation to replace a more-confirmed town player at the end of the list.

DGB is confirmed via role-based information. Tajo is not. It's that simple.

[populartajo]

do you think my plan is scummy?

Yes.

It presents the town with more ways to make incipient or careless mistakes - if anyone, for any reason, decides to put on a vigilante badge and go a'huntin', the town leaves itself open to be fucked over by both scum

and

a lone town player (which have been characteristic of this game).

I'm especially worried because you're trying to maneuver yourself into a kill position that

only scum would want to take from a town player

. If you're town, you should have no motivation to replace a more-confirmed town player at the end of the list.

DGB is confirmed via role-based information. Tajo is not. It's that simple.

no, i said that dgb should be the last to die. i should be the one dying before her, that means, the last to last to die, el penultimo, sabes español, creo?

[The Fonz]

Bah, go town.

[The Fonz]

Oh yes, and don't you dare put Tajo at the end of the list. Kill him next.

[Yosarian2]

you are so full of shit, yos.
1. you are not a townie.

That's you're defense? Pfffttt.

2. my plan was to get a fallen arel not to find out how many hitpoints everyone has

Bullshit. Getting everyone to claim means you find out how many hitpoints everyone has.

Also, after rofl said this:

dude a fallen arel makes perfect sense but HE'S NOT GONNA CLAIM AREL SO YOUR MASSCLAIM IS TEH STUPID ANYWAY.

there was exactally zero chance a scum fallen arel would claim arel, and yet you kept pushing for a massclaim after that anyway, saying that you had some kind of "SECRET PLAN" (in all caps).

So, no, whatever you were doing, you were clearly NOT trying to get a arel to claim, since you kept pushing a massclaim after that became impossible. Try again.

3. i never lied about confirmed. im the most protown player of this group. face it

Why? "I'm town face it" is not an argument.

Right now, tajo, it sounds like the concencuss is that you need to be the next to die. If you have some actual argument for why you are town, you should make it, right now. You know, with quotes and an argument and stuff.

4. i NEVER tried to shoot down q21 plan. Im improving it.

Lol.

So, your plan is that, instead of lynching people, we bring everyone to lynch -1, giving you and your scumbuddies more time to build up rage, and then waste zeal points that q21 might need in endgame to finish people off? How is that an improvement?

So, please DIE.

[Yosarian2]

Yos, you think rolf is town?

Not really, no; he was my main suspect for a while, as I made clear. The "rofl and nuwen kill each other plan" should take care of that problem, though, assuming no more then one of the two of them is scum.

[Yosarian2]

By the way, Tajo, if you've got some kind of real defense to make, some reason I should think you are town, you have about 2 hours to make it, before my hurt gets recharged.

[Firestarter]

@ Q21...

The 2 Seraphim are being kept for last, yes?

If so, whats your take on both of them being scum?

********************************************************

@ Tajo

Your new and improved plan is more or less going to kill town off quicker, and scum will use less rage points in doing so.

The crux here is that you have NOT let your idea of everyone massclaiming drop.

You failed in that bid, for all to massclaim, now you want everyone at L-1.

Guess what....
For that to happen, each player would need to disclose how many HP they have, so they are not accidently killed off by others.

Also....
You may have been nearly/almost townie at one stage, but the amount of stalling on the game youve created amazes me.

Every time a plan was introduced, you kept on about your fake votecount plan.
Now that we have a plan that is based on Q21 being Town, you are trying to concoct a new plan... More stalling.

But in the meantime, you've gone along with hurting the Fonz throughout.

What am I missing???

For me, you should be much higher up the list because of what Ive stated above, and because of your behaviour over the last 10 pages or so.

You could be over anxious town, or scum trying to throw a fucking spanner in the works every chance you get.

[q21]

@ Q21...

The 2 Seraphim are being kept for last, yes?

If so, whats your take on both of them being scum?

The original statement of my plan said that it assumes that at least one of nuwen and rofl is town, it doesn't matter which. If both are scum, it becomes a damage race that, without knowing the exact scum RP accumulation system, I cannot predict. I probably lose though - hence the assumption.

I find it hugely unlikely that the scum have 3 Seraphim. I will commence a personal vendetta against Flay if that is the case.

[roflcopter]

tajo next, no question about that

[Firestarter]

I find it hugely unlikely that the scum have 3 Seraphim. I will commence a personal vendetta against Flay if that is the case.

I think its a fair assumption to make that both cannot be scum then.

Which makes this plan a must-carry-out.

The latest Rage damage on you, for me, is an indication that this plan will work. scum are now scrambling against the unknown, and will throw everything at you as long as they can.

If we can find at least 1 scum before we whittle down to the last four, then we reduce rage points, which in turn is autowin for town.

Q21, would a heal on my part be a benefit to you now, or should I hold my power to hurt?

[Firestarter]

EBWOP

Actually, its pretty imperative that we do find at least 1 scum before the numbers get down to whereby you are the only townie left, Q.

Assuming we have 3 scum left, or worst case scenario, 4 scum left,
then wont it be tough to win from there?

If Fonz turns out scum, all the better.
But if he's town, that then leaves us with 7 players left, with at worst 3 towns v 4 scum.
I dont think there are any more than 5 scum in this set-up.

It might be a case of you going it alone when it gets down to 5 players left.

I hope we are all reading this?

[Firestarter]

Im not gonna be on till about this time tomorrow evening....

HEAL: Q21