Mini 734 - GrimMafia - OVER

[Setael]

I'm not going to write looker off as a noob quite so easily. Even if he is a noob, nothing I have seen points to noob town over noob scum. Plus, there is far too much resistance to even pressuring him and with 3 scum still alive, it makes sense that it would be tough to get a wagon rolling if it's on scum.

As far as Setael, I voted her because I was replacing in and she had no votes on her and wasn't voting anyone.

Bluff. Pick two random names, throwem in the sea and see what ripples they make. i'm tellin u, zach, i could have just as easily did the same process with anyone else that wasn't voting or had no votes on them. it's more of a "hey i'm here" vote than anything else, certainly not a "100% scum" vote. appreciate your honesty, though

Check your facts. I voted Pablo my very first post, and stayed on him until I switched to you. Want to come up with another reason, since your first one is bunk?

P.S. I probably won't be able to check the thread for the rest of the weekend.

[Looker]

No one has anything to say about my post? Okay...

As for my whole deal with looker;

I see no scuminess.

Looker seems to just be in it for the fun

. if he were scum, he probably would not be playing this way, and would be just a bit more cautious (I'm sure I spelt it wrong). I just see a level of noobness I have never seen before.

Why can't anyone understand this? I honestly think people forget that this is a game sometimes and that the purpose is to have fun. O well...

Usually "have fun" is followed by "play to win" in most rulesets.

In addition, Mafia is a team activity. YOU "playing for fun" means WE "lose". (Remember. LyLo.)

Your life is trite and jaded,
Boring and confiscated!
If that's your best, your best won't do!

Confirm We're Not Gonna Take It: Looker

Okay, okay, alright, I see what you're saying. Let's start figuring this whole thing out.

Vote: Archon

I really HATE that lynch -1 vote on Pablo the more I think about it.

I hate the explanation for the action as well.

I have looked at Looker's play, and consequently Looker's meta, and his actions don't look too far off what the norm is for him. A lot of his votes haven't made a lot of sense and his playing style could probably be

best described as dumb

... but when you really look at it, his votes has been generally harmless in that he was the first one on Setael and Has.

Archon's play on the other hand is extremely risky if newb town, and downright calculating as scum. Taking in those two possibilities, what do you think the lynch -1 vote was?

Further, based on the fact that Spring cast a vote on Sipylus when going on a "lurker hunt" I find it unlikely that Archon and Looker are scum together. One of them maybe, but not both. Archon strikes me as newb scum. (Coupled with the fact that I have been uncomfortable with Spring's play for the entire game.)

Damn.

Looker: Stupid. Not sure if scummy, but stupid.

Double damn.

I'm not going to write looker off as a noob quite so easily. Even if he is a noob, nothing I have seen points to noob town over noob scum. Plus, there is far too much resistance to even pressuring him and with 3 scum still alive, it makes sense that it would be tough to get a wagon rolling if it's on scum.

As far as Setael, I voted her because I was replacing in and she had no votes on her and wasn't voting anyone.

Bluff. Pick two random names, throwem in the sea and see what ripples they make. i'm tellin u, zach, i could have just as easily did the same process with anyone else that wasn't voting or had no votes on them. it's more of a "hey i'm here" vote than anything else, certainly not a "100% scum" vote. appreciate your honesty, though

Check your facts. I voted Pablo my very first post, and stayed on him until I switched to you. Want to come up with another reason, since your first one is bunk?

P.S. I probably won't be able to check the thread for the rest of the weekend.

Hey calm down, Ms. Setael. If my first reason is, indeed, "bunk" (as you so

cleverly

put it) then that's solely because the votecount didn't reflect it. So there, honey, your move.

I would understand the suspicion against myself if it had gone FoS, but no vote, from my presumed scumbuddies, but that ain't happening. No deflection of focus, it's solely on me at this moment. (not "woe is me" just stating fact) Zach's unvote makes me pause in my opinion about him, since we're at presumed lylo.

Possibility 1) Bussing. (Yes, this is a possibility)
Possibility 2) I'm wrong about your scumbuddies.
Possibility 3) You're not scum, contrary to all appearances.

Vi- Do you still think zach and B-B are scum as well?

I'm not sure any more.

tbqh the lynch I

really

want right now is Looker. Not even newbies play like that.

And can you explain your opinion that we HAVE to have a lynch today, even if it's you?

...

Okay what do you mean not even newbies play like this? Would you be just as willing to lynch me if I were town yet not newb? What are you trying to say here? It looks like you're trying to lynch me based on a playing style as opposed to lynching me based on indications of scumminess. That's what it

really

looks like,

[Beyond_Birthday]

3. what am I supposed to respond to? there really isn't much content for me, once I boil it down.

If I missed something, or yada yada yada, just ask me.

Nothing. I haven't really gleaned much content from you, so my post (to you) was mostly just informing you on things. Plus, I think Zach voted you, care to respond to that? It was right next to the Vi post you quoted..., so I doubt you missed it.

I'm not going to write looker off as a noob quite so easily. Even if he is a noob, nothing I have seen points to noob town over noob scum. Plus, there is far too much resistance to even pressuring him and with 3 scum still alive, it makes sense that it would be tough to get a wagon rolling if it's on scum.

As far as Setael, I voted her because I was replacing in and she had no votes on her and wasn't voting anyone.

Bluff. Pick two random names, throwem in the sea and see what ripples they make. i'm tellin u, zach, i could have just as easily did the same process with anyone else that wasn't voting or had no votes on them. it's more of a "hey i'm here" vote than anything else, certainly not a "100% scum" vote. appreciate your honesty, though

Check your facts. I voted Pablo my very first post, and stayed on him until I switched to you. Want to come up with another reason, since your first one is bunk?

P.S. I probably won't be able to check the thread for the rest of the weekend.

I have no talent for reading "newb scum" versus "newb town." So, if you care to point out things Looker has done that indicates scum anything (particularly something an amateur scum is more likely to do), be my guest.

@Has: Just to respond to the point of where you are:
I didn't think I came off as town/scum. I was kind of half playing this game since I was totally consumed by another game, hence my restart. The fact you thought I came up as town up that point was a huge shocker to be honest. (Response to Has on his analysis of pages 11-16)

Just be sure to take some notes of questions you wanna ask, I'll be glad to answer them (as best I can).

[Looker]

I have no talent for reading "newb scum" versus "newb town." So, if you care to point out things Looker has done that indicates scum anything (particularly something an amateur scum is more likely to do), be my guest.

Not gonna happen

[Archon]

Yeah, I saw zach's post. I reallt don't have any comments. it's not that I have no counter-reasonings, I just don't feel he is a threat to me. its one vote so far. if more people voted for me, I would then start to retort.

You can ask me questions though. I'm always happy to answer them

[Beyond_Birthday]

Yeah, I saw zach's post. I reallt don't have any comments. it's not that I have no counter-reasonings, I just don't feel he is a threat to me. its one vote so far. if more people voted for me, I would then start to retort.

You can ask me questions though. I'm always happy to answer them

I don't like cute.

*Smiles*
Lets Carve a "B" in that heart of yours...
*pulls out favorite knife*

Seriously, you can't say: "Oh yeah, I know he voted me, and even though its lylo, I have no reason to try and counter him. But, yeah, I like...have counter reasons, but, you know, whatever."

Look, its lylo. Mathematically, that means there are 5 townies. Unless 1 or 2 of the three mafia see a bus as REALLY necessary to their victory, they will be hesistant to vote a partner off of weak reasoning. IF you were town aligned, you would realize that it is essential you correct ANYONE'S attack on you, no matter how weak, because we will need ALL of the townie votes to get a player lynched (assuming we do lynch scum and scum never vote partners. Obviously, toward the end of a wagon, I'd imagine, scum would vote for the one about to die).

Using this line of reasoning, I

Vote Archon

[Zachrulez]

Yeah, I saw zach's post. I reallt don't have any comments. it's not that I have no counter-reasonings,

I just don't feel he is a threat to me.

its one vote so far. if more people voted for me, I would then start to retort.

You can ask me questions though. I'm always happy to answer them

If that isn't gloating, I don't know what is.

[Setael]

@looker: your post implies you are just looking at vote counts and not reading the whole thread. Is that the case? The only reason I can think of for anyone to do that is if they're scum and already know alignments and therefore don't feel like they have to read very closely.

Your move,

honey.

[Archon]

Yeah, I saw zach's post. I reallt don't have any comments. it's not that I have no counter-reasonings,

I just don't feel he is a threat to me.

its one vote so far. if more people voted for me, I would then start to retort.

You can ask me questions though. I'm always happy to answer them

If that isn't gloating, I don't know what is.

It's definatley not gloating. I would never do that. but the way I saw it, it was just one vote. [/serious]

Yeah, I saw zach's post. I reallt don't have any comments. it's not that I have no counter-reasonings, I just don't feel he is a threat to me. its one vote so far. if more people voted for me, I would then start to retort.

You can ask me questions though. I'm always happy to answer them

I don't like cute.

*Smiles*
Lets Carve a "B" in that heart of yours...
*pulls out favorite knife*

Seriously, you can't say: "Oh yeah, I know he voted me, and even though its lylo, I have no reason to try and counter him. But, yeah, I like...have counter reasons, but, you know, whatever."

Look, its lylo. Mathematically, that means there are 5 townies. Unless 1 or 2 of the three mafia see a bus as REALLY necessary to their victory, they will be hesistant to vote a partner off of weak reasoning. IF you were town aligned, you would realize that it is essential you correct ANYONE'S attack on you, no matter how weak, because we will need ALL of the townie votes to get a player lynched (assuming we do lynch scum and scum never vote partners. Obviously, toward the end of a wagon, I'd imagine, scum would vote for the one about to die).

Using this line of reasoning, I

Vote Archon

Okay then, fine.

first thing I would do to try to separate myself from the mafia would be to attack one of them. I am in hot water right now, and flipping over one of my own would be the best way to win over the people who do not trust me. but, currently I don't actually have a vote down for anyone.

Vote: Archon

I really HATE that lynch -1 vote on Pablo the more I think about it.

I hate the explanation for the action as well.

I have looked at Looker's play, and consequently Looker's meta, and his actions don't look too far off what the norm is for him. A lot of his votes haven't made a lot of sense and his playing style could probably be best described as dumb... but when you really look at it, his votes has been generally harmless in that he was the first one on Setael and Has.

Archon's play on the other hand is extremely risky if newb town, and downright calculating as scum. Taking in those two possibilities, what do you think the lynch -1 vote was?

Further, based on the fact that Spring cast a vote on Sipylus when going on a "lurker hunt" I find it unlikely that Archon and Looker are scum together. One of them maybe, but not both. Archon strikes me as newb scum. (Coupled with the fact that I have been uncomfortable with Spring's play for the entire game.)

You say I'm either calculating, or newb. I ask you to take a look at this, and see if it dosen't ping newb readings. http://www.ZOMBO.COM

continue to read my posts. I assure you they are not that of a calculating scum.

I assure you, townspeople, I am not scum.

BAD FORM ALERT. DO NOT QUOTE ONGOING GAMES. BAD FORM INDEED!!! AND YES, THE LINK WAS CHANGED TO PROTECT THE INNOCENT PLAYERS IN BOTH GAMES, AS WELL AS THE GUILTY ONES, AND THE OH SO SEXY MODS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE UNIVERSE

[Looker]

@looker: your post implies you are just looking at vote counts and not reading the whole thread. Is that the case? The only reason I can think of for anyone to do that is if they're scum and already know alignments and therefore don't feel like they have to read very closely.

Your move,

honey.

LOL! O my F**KING GOD! Thank you for shedding some light upon my day and making my life more bearable.

But no, Setael, I am not and was not looking at votecounts in the stead of reading the whole thread. I was merely trying to urge a commitment out of those who had not committed, i.e., you, seeing as I view a vote as a commitment.

Lol, you are f**cking hilarious

[Zachrulez]

You say I'm either calculating, or newb. I ask you to take a look at this, and see if it dosen't ping newb readings. http://www.allposters.com/View_HighZoom ... w=20&ch=20

continue to read my posts. I assure you they are not that of a calculating scum.

I assure you, townspeople, I am not scum.

That's an ongoing game that you're not dead in.

Which means... what exactly?

yes, Im editing the website he quoted and repalcing it with something more fun. carry on. Moo

[Archon]

You say I'm either calculating, or newb. I ask you to take a look at this, and see if it dosen't ping newb readings. viewtopic.php?p=1527463#1527463

continue to read my posts. I assure you they are not that of a calculating scum.

I assure you, townspeople, I am not scum.

That's an ongoing game that you're not dead in.

Which means... what exactly?

I encourage you to look at my usual MO, and then compare it to what I am doing now.

[Setael]

looker, my point is that you are claiming you voted me because I was not "committed." The fact that you thought this makes it difficult to believe you read the thread. You didn't see my vote on pablo and didn't even seem to have read all the posts I was making against him, which, if you were reading the thread and read my post you most certainly would have. you admitted that you were unaware of it because it wasn't in the vote count. which means you aren't reading, or at least not very carefully. personal attacks against me are an inadequate defense for your play.

you didn't really address my question amidst all your "Lol, you are f**cking hilarious" insults. If you are reading the thread, why did you think I wasn't voting anyone? I had talked a lot about and several people mentioned how severely scummy I think pablo is. I was practically tunneling on him when you claim you voted me because I wasn't "commited". If anyone in this game was committed against someone it was ME against Pablo. So it appears you are not reading and actually paying very little attention to the thread. Which to me means you are likely scum. You know who is scum and you know who is town so you don't have to read to try to find tells that clue you into alignments. That's my theory. You have done nothing to make me think otherwise. It's a big scum tell and a big noob mistake and maybe you'll be more careful in your next game.

P.S. It's also noobish and annoying to insult people who attack your play. Please make an attempt to defend yourself instead of just mocking me.

[Pablo Molinero]

LOL! O my F**KING GOD! Thank you for shedding some light upon my day and making my life more bearable.

But no, Setael, I am not and was not looking at votecounts in the stead of reading the whole thread. I was merely trying to urge a commitment out of those who had not committed, i.e., you, seeing as I view a vote as a commitment.

Lol, you are f**cking hilarious

Dear lord. As much as it pains me to admit it, I agree with Setael in this whole exchange, and looker's reactions are just *so* ridiculous and strained, I can't help but to think our scum in panicing. I know the difference between "stupid" and STUPID (I have played with Empking and millar and zwet before), and this is falling in the former category. It ain't sitting right with me. Find something legit. Defend yourself.

vote: looker

[Zachrulez]

In a game where town Zero and Zwet were lynched. I'd like to see a better case against Looker then him being stupid or a circumstantial argument about him not reading the game because he knows everyone's alignment.

The one thing I've seen that sets Archon and Looker apart is the fact that Archon deliberately placed Pablo at lynch -1, and Looker did not.

I'm tired of lynching solely on stupidity. I see an extremely scummy action on Archon's part, and my gut tells me that it's the move of newb scum.

[Looker]

looker, my point is that you are claiming you voted me because I was not "committed." The fact that you thought this makes it difficult to believe you read the thread. You didn't see my vote on pablo and didn't even seem to have read all the posts I was making against him, which, if you were reading the thread and read my post you most certainly would have. you admitted that you were unaware of it because it wasn't in the vote count. which means you aren't reading, or at least not very carefully. personal attacks against me are an inadequate defense for your play.

you didn't really address my question amidst all your "Lol, you are f**cking hilarious" insults. If you are reading the thread, why did you think I wasn't voting anyone? I had talked a lot about and several people mentioned how severely scummy I think pablo is. I was practically tunneling on him when you claim you voted me because I wasn't "commited". If anyone in this game was committed against someone it was ME against Pablo. So it appears you are not reading and actually paying very little attention to the thread. Which to me means you are likely scum. You know who is scum and you know who is town so you don't have to read to try to find tells that clue you into alignments. That's my theory. You have done nothing to make me think otherwise. It's a big scum tell and a big noob mistake and maybe you'll be more careful in your next game.

P.S. It's also noobish and annoying to insult people who attack your play. Please make an attempt to defend yourself instead of just mocking me.

Whether or not you have a case on someone is irregardless - wait, let me apologize for i was joking and not trying to insult you, but anywayz (that

was

f**king hilarious, though) - to whether you have a vote on them. One cannot go on as to prove the other; therefore, the fact that i missed your vote on pablo does not and should not imply that i am not thoroughly reading the thread; however, it will suffice in proving that i am not apt at keeping everyone's votes in order.

LOL! O my F**KING GOD! Thank you for shedding some light upon my day and making my life more bearable.

But no, Setael, I am not and was not looking at votecounts in the stead of reading the whole thread. I was merely trying to urge a commitment out of those who had not committed, i.e., you, seeing as I view a vote as a commitment.

Lol, you are f**cking hilarious

Dear lord. As much as it pains me to admit it, I agree with Setael in this whole exchange, and looker's reactions are just *so* ridiculous and strained, I can't help but to think our scum in panicing. I know the difference between "stupid" and STUPID (I have played with Empking and millar and zwet before), and this is falling in the former category. It ain't sitting right with me. Find something legit. Defend yourself.

vote: looker

With what point (clarify) of Setael's do you agree? Explicate on your usage of the phrase "*so* ridiculous and strained". And why would you believe me to be panicking when I started this

delightful

exchange? You say that it isn't sitting right, find something legit, and defend myself, yet you've made no case against which I could find myself to defend. All you've done is say "Setael's right" and placed a vote. Do you know what you're doing? O, and don't compare me with zwet, I'm not that bad. I like to have fun, but I'm not that bad.

[Looker]

FOS Pablo[/b}

[Looker]

lol as in

FOS Pablo

Yea, that's right

[Archon]

I can't take it anymore. he is too damn annoying.

Vote; Looker

[Beyond_Birthday]

You say I'm either calculating, or newb. I ask you to take a look at this, and see if it dosen't ping newb readings. viewtopic.php?p=1527463#1527463

continue to read my posts. I assure you they are not that of a calculating scum.

I assure you, townspeople, I am not scum.

That's an ongoing game that you're not dead in.

Which means... what exactly?

I encourage you to look at my usual MO, and then compare it to what I am doing now.

That's against the rules....to refer to an ongoing game regardless of your living/dead status...

Also, since you are alive, it's meaningless.
I'm with Zach on this one... just because of my above reasoning... (Still, as I mentioned before in attacking Archon, we need town concensus, so, assuming you attacking Looker are town, we need to resolve this and decide (assuming one *is* scum) who between our two prime suspects is more likely to be mafia. Also, Vi needs to weigh in, and I would love it if one of you (archon or Looker) would actually defend yourself.

[Looker]

I can't take it anymore. he is too damn annoying.

Vote; Looker

Ad hominem...?

@Birthday: Whatcha got? (As in accusations against which I could defend myself, seeing as Archon & Pablo [hmm...scumpair...?] have nothing more than votes)

[Zachrulez]

I can't take it anymore. he is too damn annoying.

Vote; Looker

So are we just going to ignore the fact that Archon once again places a player at lynch -1?

Archon is the lynch, open your eyes people.

[Zachrulez]

of course. which is my reasoning. If looker was scum, there would be no way that he would ever attract this much atention to himself. and, as you stated, we are at a lylo. meaning that looker would not be a good choice. all the reasonings behind him are about the way that he acts like a noob. do we really want to lynch a noob, instead of someone else?

So you argue Looker is not scum, but now you VOTE him?

You need to be lynched... now.

[Zachrulez]

I would also urge anyone on the looker wagon that is town, to unvote in light of 672.

[Archon]

I assure you, although i am appearing scummy, I have a new idea.

what if Looker is just acting this way to be hard to read? What about that? That seems like a pretty smart idea to me; act like a noob, and everyone, after some some suspicion, will discard you as "god. what an idiot" and continue on with the game.

Plus my patience is thin right now. I ave been sitting in an airport for hours now.

I assure you though, voting for me and getting me lynched is the last thing that townies should want.