Newbie 745 - Town wins!

[qwints]

There's a difference between saying that anyone may be scum and saying that pro-town play doesn't increase the likelihood of one being town.

[Gabe]

For the moment, I'm going to

unvote

and

vote : Gabe

. You are one of the two (the other being kison) I want to hear more from.

Give me a single reason why voting for me without explaination would surface information.

I have explained.

Your 'explaination' was:

"You are one of the two (the other being kison) I want to hear more from.

So, you've voted for me. What I am supposed to do? Your vote isn't going to spur any conversation because there isnt anything to talk about.

[Family:Kostic]

@Family:Kostic, calling asking for information "guiding" is silly. Let's look at some posts:

I think [BV] should lay [his] thoughts out on the table, and share with the rest of the group. It's never "too early" to share an opinion.

BV, all I want is some thoughts on who you think might be scum. Surely, after 8 pages, there must be something you can find worth commenting on.

According to Family, one of these posts is "guiding" and one is "interrogative." I see both statements as pushing BV to participate. I'd also point out that IC's are SUPPOSED to provide basic theory advice.

You can sum up my position as follows: Repeatedly asking

people

to participate is NOT SCUMMY. Accusing

people

of being scum for pressuring people IS SCUMMY.

I do agree 100% with you there, but one thing you forgot to mention was that Hohum was..

Repeatedly asking

people

BV to participate.. Not people in general.

[Family:Kostic]

Spinach's claim is really interesting, especially seeing as how there are no villagers in this game...

First of all,

looking back at this, especially as a first time player, surely Spinach would have known the correct name of his role as it was given to him in the initial email & any new player would read through the role thoroughly..

As qwints said, I can't speak for my predecessor's thought processes. I guess I can say that I can conceive of a situation where the person who said "townie/villager" could be town (a newbie who had played elsewhere), and nothing about Spinach's play rules him our for being jsut that.

This villager/townie thing is ridiculous. There are countless possible reasons for Spinach's 'villager' claim. Primarily, villager is a synonym for townie.

I should also add my analysis on Hohums voting patterns..

He had voted 4 people during his time here,

His first was a RANDOM vote against Mufasa, (No reasoning)

His second was a vote on Seamus, (Easy target, not reqiring any reasoning)

His third was on BV, as explained in my above post, (it was right after Neko and with no real reasoning of his own and then unvotes right after Neko, suggesting he never had interest in ever lynching BV) I describe that as a 'dummy' vote.

The random vote against Mufasa was just participation in the random voting stage, so I don't see this as scummy.

The second vote on Seamus makes less sense, however. If we had waited for a forced replacement instead of immediately lynching, we could have questioned the new player and may have discovered him/her to be pro-town. The 'lynch all liars' principle doesn't apply when you can throw out the liar and find someone who will actually play the game.

The third vote on BV was questionable, but the fact that he voted immediately after Neko and unvoted soon after may just be the result of the two being experienced players, with hohum being slightly slower to react.

I do agree that the townie/villager thing is trivial, I just thought I would bring it up.

Also, the main thing I was getting at with hohum's votes was that he never really had a proper reason to vote for anyone, possibly besides me with the poor reasons that he did use.

[Family:Kostic]

Another thing too. Very poor play by BV, if you vote for someone with the reason that you want to hear more from them then you should ask what you want to know..

So, my two scummiest players atm are Qwints and Bladewing Vorox. Although I do have to review a few of BV's posts..

[qwints]

I do agree 100% with you there, but one thing you forgot to mention was that Hohum was..

Repeatedly asking

people

BV to participate.. Not people in general.

Asking people in general to participate is unlikely to be effective. Repeatedly pressuring one player is likely to provoke a response.

[Family:Kostic]

I do agree 100% with you there, but one thing you forgot to mention was that Hohum was..

Repeatedly asking

people

BV to participate.. Not people in general.

Asking people in general to participate is unlikely to be effective. Repeatedly pressuring one player is likely to provoke a response.

Not when neglecting other players in the game though, he never directed any game related posts towards Gabe, bronco or Spinach/Walnut at all. Now tell me that is not suss..

[qwints]

Wanna bet he wasn't the only player who didn't direct anything towards several players?

[Family:Kostic]

He proably wasn't, I know Seamus never did I suppose.

But I think it is a narrow minded tactic and would be a scum trait.

[Bladewing Vorox]

For the moment, I'm going to

unvote

and

vote : Gabe

. You are one of the two (the other being kison) I want to hear more from.

Give me a single reason why voting for me without explaination would surface information.

I have explained.

Your 'explaination' was:

"You are one of the two (the other being kison) I want to hear more from.

So, you've voted for me. What I am supposed to do? Your vote isn't going to spur any conversation because there isnt anything to talk about.

Sorry, I thought I had explained.

Also, FK does not call the ICs "too townie"- he says that he expects town-like play from them, and therefore he does not rule them out as scum.

This is an important distinction- good players play almost identically as town and scum, and the idea that mafia are consistently and obviously scummy (Seamus, anyone?) is just not right.

I do agree with you on this point. Seamus is a good example : he was scummy but after we lynched him at Day 1, he turned out to be a townie.

That's why those we think as pro-town may be scum.

Normally, you should be able to understand why I voted against you.

Another thing too. Very poor play by BV, if you vote for someone with the reason that you want to hear more from them then you should ask what you want to know..

So, my two scummiest players atm are Qwints and Bladewing Vorox. Although I do have to review a few of BV's posts..

That would be a poor play for my part if it was the reason behind my vote.
I want to hear what Gabe has to say first, I'll ask more precise questions after if I think it is necessary.

[Gabe]

Also, FK does not call the ICs "too townie"- he says that he expects town-like play from them, and therefore he does not rule them out as scum.

This is an important distinction- good players play almost identically as town and scum, and the idea that mafia are consistently and obviously scummy (Seamus, anyone?) is just not right.

I do agree with you on this point. Seamus is a good example : he was scummy but after we lynched him at Day 1, he turned out to be a townie.

That's why those we think as pro-town may be scum.

Normally, you should be able to understand why I voted against you.

Another thing too. Very poor play by BV, if you vote for someone with the reason that you want to hear more from them then you should ask what you want to know..

So, my two scummiest players atm are Qwints and Bladewing Vorox. Although I do have to review a few of BV's posts..

That would be a poor play for my part if it was the reason behind my vote.
I want to hear what Gabe has to say first, I'll ask more precise questions after if I think it is necessary.

If I understand correctly, you are voting for me on the grounds that I appear to be pro-town, and may therefore be scum. 'Those we think as pro-town may be scum', according to the bolded text.

So please, go ahead with some more precise questions. I'd prefer a straightforward question to a vague suspicion.

[qwints]

EVERYONE, there is a difference between not treating townie players as confirmed and seeing pro-town players as scummy.

[Gabe]

EVERYONE, there is a difference between not treating townie players as confirmed and seeing pro-town players as scummy.

Understood and agreed.

[Family:Kostic]

Also understood and agreed.

[Walnut]

Yeah, and saying it (or agreeing to it) does not make you a townie

While we are looking for precise questions:

Kison, Gabe, Mufasa- do you think qwints or Family:Kostic seems more scummy, and why?

[Family:Kostic]

I just thought I would again say that I understood it, even though I had explained it a few times already, just to be sure everyine knew. Lol.

[Bladewing Vorox]

EVERYONE, there is a difference between not treating townie players as confirmed and seeing pro-town players as scummy.

I understand.

[farside22]

Vote count:

Mufasa 1 votes: (Gabe)
Kison 1 vote: (Mufasa)
qwints 2 vote: (Walnut, Family:Kostic)
Family:Kostic 1 vote: (qwints)
Gabe 1 vote: (Bladewing Vorox)

Not voting:

Kison



With 7 players it takes 4 to lynch

Prodding Mufasa

DEADLINE IS EXACTLY 1 WEEK FROM THIS POST!

[qwints]

With deadline approaching, here's how I feel about the players with votes on them and the order I favor their lynch in:

1)Family:Kostic - I really don't like his day 1 defense of mufasa. I also don't like the fact that he said that the nk shouldn't be used to implicate him but could be used to implicate Spinach. I also don't think his attacks on hohum are well grounded.
2) Mufasa - Very scummy although possibly just inexperienced. I'd be fine with lynching him.
3) Gabe- A little light on content and defensive of mufasa until he self-voted. His reaction to the pressure vote, while justified also failed to contribute any new analysis to the thread.
4) Kison - I haven't seen anything scummy from him.
5) qwints- I think the cases on me are built on cases against my predecessor hohum whose actions I can't comment on. I don't think hohum was "guiding" BV, only pressuring him.

[Mufasa]

Qwints is most deffinitely more scummy than FK based on his predecessor s actions, and the way he has come in and said that he cant justify any of the actions that hohum did that were most scummy.

[Kison]

Kison, Gabe, Mufasa- do you think qwints or Family:Kostic seems more scummy, and why?

Family:Kostic. Aside from Hohum's disinterest late in the game, I didn't find anything particularly scummy about his play. His flaking is sitewide, though - he has disappeared from his other games as well, so I don't think that is a very indicative of his alignment.

On the other hand, Family:Kostic not only tried to defend Mufasa

because

he exhibited scummy behavior early in the game, but his on-the-wall attack on Spinach also mirrored Mufasa's Spinach-vote justification:

I believe Spinach is scum, he was very quite day one, and he made the first jump on day 2. Spinach seemed to make himself look like Bronco's friend day one (from previous rounds) to make it seam to us to be impossible for Seamus to be Scum this time around.
Thererfore my vote is for

vote: Spinach

The way I see it, the fact that you (

Spinach

) were friendly with Bronco, and possibly knowing he was not Mafia, gives you every reason to Lynch him during the night...

Obviously, it is only WIFOM theory and should be taken with a pinch of salt as it holds no real evidence to you being or not being Scum.. Nevertheless I think you would be the type who would lynch a friend rather than an enemy in this situation..

Whether or not this indicates coordination, it's a poor justification for an attack.

Nonetheless, I would like Mufasa lynched today over all, I think.

Vote: Mufasa

[Walnut]

With deadline approaching, here's how I feel about the players with votes on them and the order I favor their lynch in:

1)Family:Kostic - I really don't like his day 1 defense of mufasa. I also don't like the fact that he said that the nk shouldn't be used to implicate him but could be used to implicate Spinach. I also don't think his attacks on hohum are well grounded.
2) Mufasa - Very scummy although possibly just inexperienced. I'd be fine with lynching him.
3) Gabe- A little light on content and defensive of mufasa until he self-voted. His reaction to the pressure vote, while justified also failed to contribute any new analysis to the thread.
4) Kison - I haven't seen anything scummy from him.
5) qwints- I think the cases on me are built on cases against my predecessor hohum whose actions I can't comment on. I don't think hohum was "guiding" BV, only pressuring him.

Interestingly, when I ask the precise question of "qwints or Family:Kostic?", qwints broadens it to all players with votes on them. I see this as an attempt to take the heat off himself, and see if anyone will bite on any of the other options. Also, it allows qwints to summarise the case on himself and I feel that he chose a weaker straw man version. While I thought Hohum's actions scummy, what has made it seem more likely to me is the less than solid arguments qwints has used against FK.

[Family:Kostic]

Also, reguarding Qwints post, he stated,
"here's how I feel about the players with votes on them"
But never mentioned BV in that list, when he had a vote on him.
As well as including Kison who doesn't have a vote on him at all.

Is it just me or do you confuse yourself?

Then you proceed to say, "I really don't like his (Family:Kostic) day 1 defense of mufasa"
straight before saying, "(Mufasa is) Very scummy although possibly just inexperienced."
Which is basically what I said about Mufasa in D1..

Confused?

Also, reguarding cases built on your predecessor. You and him are the same player and every post must be analysed for any possible evidence. Therefore if you are saying that you can not comment on your predecessors actions, in a sense you are suggesting that they may have been somewhat scummy and you are trying to create as minimal attention to them as possible by declining to comment on them..

But, everything suss your predecessor done has and should be brought to attention for you to answer because you and him will have had the same motivations in this game.
Failing to effectively answer such simple observations gives me the idea that you simply have no answer to them because they are scummy..

[Family:Kostic]

Kison, Gabe, Mufasa- do you think qwints or Family:Kostic seems more scummy, and why?

Family:Kostic. Aside from Hohum's disinterest late in the game, I didn't find anything particularly scummy about his play. His flaking is sitewide, though - he has disappeared from his other games as well, so I don't think that is a very indicative of his alignment.

This was only a small part of what I was saying that made Hohum seem very scummy, a big part of it was that he neglected a total of 3 players during his whole time in the game..
Appx. 86% of his game relevant posts were towards 3 people, the other 14% to 2 others and 0% to the remaining 3.. Not good stats if a person has any real interest in scum hunting IMO..

On the other hand, Family:Kostic not only tried to defend Mufasa

because

he exhibited scummy behavior early in the game, but his on-the-wall attack on Spinach also mirrored Mufasa's Spinach-vote justification:

I believe Spinach is scum, he was very quite day one, and he made the first jump on day 2. Spinach seemed to make himself look like Bronco's friend day one (from previous rounds) to make it seam to us to be impossible for Seamus to be Scum this time around.
Thererfore my vote is for

vote: Spinach

The way I see it, the fact that you (

Spinach

) were friendly with Bronco, and possibly knowing he was not Mafia, gives you every reason to Lynch him during the night...

Obviously, it is only WIFOM theory and should be taken with a pinch of salt as it holds no real evidence to you being or not being Scum.. Nevertheless I think you would be the type who would lynch a friend rather than an enemy in this situation..

Whether or not this indicates coordination, it's a poor justification for an attack.

Reguarding this, It was never an attack but simply an observation on my part. Also it simply shows possibly that we both seen the possibility of a link of and commented on it..

[Family:Kostic]

Also, reguarding Qwints post, he stated,
"here's how I feel about the players with votes on them"
But never mentioned BV in that list, when he had a vote on him.
As well as including Kison who doesn't have a vote on him at all.

Is it just me or do you confuse yourself?

Disreguard this Lol, I miss read the vote count. My bad!