Mini 737 - Hack Poetry Mafia (Game Over)

[springlullaby]

And to make it clear, my modkill demand is serious and is separate from my case against sekinj.

I demand modkill regardless of her alignment.

You want to alter the outcome of the game for your personal vendetta? You notice how I have been saying ALL ALONG that I hate your play (or lack thereof) in this game, yet I believe you are the doc, and therefore, shouldn't be lynched? I'm not sure how much townier you want me to be. Of Course, if I was scum I could come up with some crap reason to vote you like... oh! not helping the town! but no, I've been defending you, and trying to keep your role in the game in order to help the town.

No, you are discrediting my play on false basis.

You are also using appeal to emotion to dismiss my points against you, and this is scummy.

[springlullaby]

I protected spolium because my sanity is in doubt and N1 protection had no adverse effect. That's the correct play for doubtful sanity doc. I certainly wouldn't have protected Jebus in case i'm a quack, killing the doc and framing myself in the process.

How would targeting Spolium a 2nd time tell you anything? Or are you saying you deliberately were uninterested in learning more? If you were worried about your doc save killing someone, why not target Lynx?

My sanity is unknown. Spolium is 50/50 to me - if I am a protective doc it's 50% chance of a save.

I'm considering a me lynch because 1. seeing my sanity flip might be helpful 2. i'm VLA 6th to 17 april.

How would seeing your sanity flip be helpful? What info would that give us?

If I flip insane, it means that Spolium is scum. One insane doc against one scum is a good deal.

That's quite a stretch. Hoping you don't maintain the same playstyle is a far cry from a vendetta.

It is regardless not in the spirit of the game as it is designated to be offensive and patronising. And I had to put up with her insults yesterday already.

[RedCoyote]

The only thing I wanted to say is that I really wasn't trying to kick dirt at spring or cause a big thing when I asked her if she wasn't going to post over the weekend. I just recall, from this game, her being, like me, traditionally more absent over the weekend.

That plus her saying she was going to make one more meaningful post when she still had a solid three days before she went V/LA made me weary. If I know I'm going on V/LA I try to give the game some sort of increase in activity.

Anyways, that's neither here nor there. I don't know why sekinj couldn't have just dropped this; I see it as a lose/lose situation for her, at least from my point of view. sekinj is risking coming across as bitter at best, and, at worst, scum trying to distract the town by constantly provoking spring.

I don't agree with this modkill business, but until I feel more like sekinj's motivations for dragging this feud out are sincere (regardless as to whether or not I think spring is just as guilty of dragging it out, I'm fairly confident that spring's town), I think she has certainly earned my

vote: sekinj

.

I think this is a good place for D3's first wagon.

---

I still don't see a problem with any of the visits. The only problem I have with Rhinox's calculations is the roles he doesn't touch on... the townies. Put it this way, say the scum, being scared of a Doctor-blocked kill/watched kill, ignored all three players altogether and killed, say, Lynx.

Lynx flips 'nilla.

The town still has two Doctors and a Watcher, and if there's only two mafia left, 3>2... eventually they're going to have to kill one of them to win this game, why not try it while the town is still all confused about who does what and which role is fake?

Frankly I think that the mafia's hand was forced to take the risk in trying to kill a Doctor claim

because

all of our claimed roles are actually telling the truth, not because don is actually faking and took the chance that spring wasn't going to be on Jebus.

So, anyways, that's my stance as of right now. We took a slightly riskier play yesterday and the scum ended up winning the battle. We were already (and I think still are) ahead, so we can stand to lose that one.

I also do not agree that Spolium should be off the table.

[sekinj]

No, you are discrediting my play on false basis.

Do you want me to quote all of your posts that you say something to the effect of, "I'm still here but have nothing to say, play on."?? because I don't want to waste my time doing that since I think you are our last doc and not scum. We all know that is how you have been playing this game for the most part, so please stop. that is all I'm asking. At least when you are arguing with me you act like you care about this game.

[sekinj]

@RC - nice way to be sure you aren't offending anyone. Did you notice that I already said something pretty similar on the last page regarding jebus?

and spring and I are both dragging this arguement out because we suffer from the same flaw: we have to have the last word.

[springlullaby]

No, you are discrediting my play on false basis.

Do you want me to quote all of your posts that you say something to the effect of, "I'm still here but have nothing to say, play on."?? because I don't want to waste my time doing that since I think you are our last doc and not scum. We all know that is how you have been playing this game for the most part, so please stop. that is all I'm asking. At least when you are arguing with me you act like you care about this game.

You are backtracking.

You accused me of not participating, implying with your smartass comments that I did not contribute at all, or that I did not scumhunt.

This is false.

I have contributed and scumhunted significantly each day even if is true that I have announced point blank that I would not participate during certain period of the game. This is how I have chosen to play this game, which I also make clear.

[sekinj]

well, I'm telling you point blank that I don't like your attitude or your play in this game. I hope you choose to play your next differently.

[RedCoyote]

@RC - nice way to be sure you aren't offending anyone. Did you notice that I already said something pretty similar on the last page regarding jebus?

If you want to get technical, I'm just reiterating what I said in 790/787 in a new way. It was adjusted to fit Rhinox's comments, but this isn't some sort of new position I am stealing from you.

I've taken a shot or two at spring, no doubt, most of the players in the game have. When you do it it always seems to fester into a big thing. I said yesterday that I didn't care for you doing it, and here you are part of it again.

Because spring is relatively clear in my eyes, I can guarantee you this won't break in your favor barring anything abnormal.

[springlullaby]

well, I'm telling you point blank that I don't like your attitude or your play in this game. I hope you choose to play your next differently.

And I'm telling that I don't care about what you think of my attitude, and that unless you can justify your 'not liking' my play (which you have not been able to), what you are saying means exactly zip.

And this is exactly why you are scummy.

[sekinj]

@RC - no, I didn't think it was something new that only I came up with or that you were stealing it or anything. I was just wondering if you noticed that you were holding the same take on it as the person you are voting for as scum...

and all I want is for it break in the towns favor

@SL - I'm scummy because I think the town's doc shouldn't sit in the background for "certain periods" of the game?

[fhqwhgads]

Second reason is a bit of wifom, but worth mentioning: Why would scum target jebus? If I were scum, I would assume that even a best case scenario, the kill would fail due to protection from the other doc. Worst case scenario, a scum would be caught making the kill by the watcher. To me, this seems like a textbook example where scum should've tried to kill someone who had no chance of being protected or watched, unless the scum knows that don is not a watcher.

I agree this is wifom, but it's not bad. In fact, I think you do make a relevant point.

Ok, I've had enough.

Vote sekinj.

OMGUS much?

And to make it clear, my modkill demand is serious and is separate from my case against sekinj.

No it isn't.

Actually no.

MOD: I demand modkill of sekinj.

---

see? I can throw crap logic around as well. That doesn't make it true.

[wifom] The moral is, if I were the scum, I would have targeted Jebus on the chance that Spring was going to go do her own thing and not follow the plan discussed[/wifom]

Yeah... erm. You see, the problem I have now, is I have to disregard both your and Spring's arguments against each other, because there is some indeterminate amount of personal opinion involved.

I don't see a reason town you would make such offensive, false accusations and I think you are scum antagonizing me on purpose, trying to use appeal to emotion.

No. Fail. That other dead guy, fhqwhgads also commented on your play style more than once in a similar vein. We all know what alignment he turned out to be. Stop taking this personally. If your we think your play sucks and you disagree, leave it there. This isn't scumhunting, it's a personal feud. See my previous point.

[Goatrevolt]

[quote="RedCoyote"]
Lynx flips 'nilla. p/quote[

is this a prediction or do you know? I just find this odd...

As for spolium, i believe that he was defending budgja from my ealrier attacks cuase they are scum. I was attacking budja with valid reasons, and he kept slapping a stop sign at me. His spring attack day 2 was weird. early on he gave the impression he did not believe spring, bu tlater he gave the impression he did. it seemed...unnatural progression for a townie. Like he was attacking spring but then i gave reasons against it, and then he was suddently also against hit. Just seems faked...like he was not sure how to react as scum, who maybe wanted spring dead, but then backracked when he realized it wasn't going to happen. that is my impressionj at least.

I don't know about sekinj. she keeps harpin on spring, but i can legitimize her stance so...i don't know. I have also attacked spring where i do not think her actions fit...so maybe hypocritical for me to pressure her on that?

so...yeah...posting drunk probably a bad idea...but i think senor spolio is of the scum temperment.

[Spolium]

Drunken goat is drunk.

Look, the possibility of Spring being scum keeps dancing around in my head for reasons that I've explained already - primary because of the lack of read, partly because of the favourable position she's in, and generally because I get a bad feeling about her. Yeah, maybe I'm totally wrong, which is why I haven't really been pushing for a lynch, and am trying to consider other options.

As for defending Budja, I felt that my reasons were perfectly valid at the time. Yes, I screwed up. By all means file that under "scummy" - I accept that it was a questionable move.

[don_johnson]

Lynx flips 'nilla. p/quote[

is this a prediction or do you know? I just find this odd...

As for spolium, i believe that he was defending

budgja

from my

ealrier

attacks

cuase

they are scum. I was attacking budja with valid reasons, and he kept slapping a stop sign at me. His spring attack day 2 was weird. early on he gave the impression he did not believe spring,

bu tlater

he gave the impression he did. it seemed...unnatural progression for a townie. Like he was attacking spring but then i gave reasons against it, and then he was

suddently

also against hit. Just seems faked...like he was not sure how to react as scum, who maybe wanted spring dead, but then

backracked

when he realized it wasn't going to happen. that is my

impressionj

at least.

I don't know about sekinj. she keeps harpin on spring, but i can legitimize her stance so...i don't know. I have also attacked spring where i do not think her actions fit...so maybe hypocritical for me to pressure her on that?

so...yeah...posting drunk probably a bad idea...but i think senor spolio is of the scum

temperment

.

love it.

Look, the possibility of Spring being scum keeps dancing around in my head for reasons that I've explained already - primary because of the lack of read, partly because of the favourable position she's in, and generally because I get a bad feeling about her.

Yeah, maybe I'm totally wrong, which is why I haven't really been pushing for a lynch, and am trying to consider other options

.

the idea of scumspring is so freaking convoluted it makes my head spin. the fact that you are having trouble moving on is doubly troubling.

unvote

(if need be),

vote: spolium

[Spolium]

Is that the only reason you're voting me, Don?

[don_johnson]

Is that the only reason you're voting me, Don?

at the moment? yes.

[Spolium]

Then I'll point out that it's not so much a case of me having trouble "moving on", as finding that her play consistently suspicious (for the reasons given in 837).

at the moment?

I find it strange that you would say that. What else could I have meant?

[don_johnson]

Then I'll point out that it's not so much a case of me having trouble "moving on", as finding that her play consistently suspicious (for the reasons given in 837).

at the moment?

I find it strange that you would say that. What else could I have meant?

its not what else you could have meant. its the fact that i have no reason to believe you are town and that your case is one i am more than willing to investigate further. so yes, at the moment i have only one reason with which i will cite that i am voting for you. what the next moment brings only marty mcfly can tell.

[Spolium]

It just seems to me that if you're confident in putting a vote on me D3, you'd have a better reason to do so than a vague assessment of something taken out of context. At least Goatrevolt rustled up something worthwhile.

[don_johnson]

It just seems to me that if you're confident in putting a vote on me D3, you'd have a better reason to do so than a vague assessment of something taken out of context. At least Goatrevolt rustled up something worthwhile.

a) what was "taken out of context"?

b) without votes, the game goes nowhere. what is the significance of D3?

[Spolium]

a) The emboldened text in the quotation prior to your vote. In case you didn't notice, the answer in 841 is a summary of the remainder of the post, which you seemed to disregard when making the assessment in your vote post.

b) There's more to work with than D1 or D2.

[don_johnson]

a) The emboldened text in the quotation prior to your vote. In case you didn't notice, the answer in 841 is a summary of the remainder of the post, which you seemed to disregard when making the assessment in your vote post.

b) There's more to work with than D1 or D2.

the answer in 841? you mean the post which refers me back to post 837? the post in which your reasons were :

lack of read, partly because of the favourable position she's in, and generally because I get a bad feeling about her.

^^^ if there's more to work with on D3 than there is on D1 or D2 then don't you think you should have more on spring than a "bad" feeling, jealousy, and a "lack of read"? what exactly should i have been regarding here?

[Spolium]

Goat stated that my attack on Spring was weird, so I explained why Spring was lurking at the back of my mind.

don't you think you should have more on spring than a "bad" feeling, jealousy, and a "lack of read"?

Oh, come on. This is just dishonest.

- First, you prioritise "bad feeling", although it was last one I listed (and probably the weakest of the points).
- Second point - concerning the favourable position - has nothing to do with jealousy. That doesn't even make sense.
- Last, the lack of read bothers me because her play has denied the town a read, not because I find a lack of read suspicious in itself (I don't).

what exactly should i have been regarding here?

The fact that my open admission of finding Spring consistently suspicious is a result of valid concerns, and being conscious of the fact that she could still be scum, not because "I have trouble letting go". She's not confirmed town until she flips town.

I can appreciate that considering Spring town right now is a practical belief in terms of guaging the town, but you seem to be suggesting that I should have dropped suspicion of her completely. Why?

[don_johnson]

Goat stated that my attack on Spring was weird, so I explained why Spring was lurking at the back of my mind.

don't you think you should have more on spring than a "bad" feeling, jealousy, and a "lack of read"?

Oh, come on. This is just dishonest.

no, its not. its

my

perception of

your

words.

- First, you prioritise "bad feeling", although it was last one I listed (and probably the weakest of the points).

did i number them? no.

- Second point - concerning the favourable position - has nothing to do with jealousy. That doesn't even make sense.

i don't know how else to interpret your saying she has a "favourable position". linx reads town. are you suspicious of his favorable position?

- Last, the lack of read bothers me because her play has denied the town a read, not because I find a lack of read suspicious in itself (I don't).

i don't get it. you don't find the lack of read suspicious, yet include it on your list of three vague suspicions, slightly above your "bad" feeling?

what exactly should i have been regarding here?

The fact that my open admission of finding Spring consistently suspicious is a result of valid concerns, and being conscious of the fact that she could still be scum, not because "I have trouble letting go". She's not confirmed town until she flips town.

she is not confirmed, but i don't see your "valid" concerns, and frankly, it seems as though you don't really have any besides "lack of read" which you don't find suspicious, "bad feeling" which is the least of your suspicions and the "weakest", and your concern that she has a "favorable position.

I can appreciate that considering Spring town right now is a practical belief in terms of guaging the town, but you seem to be suggesting that I should have dropped suspicion of her completely. Why?

not suggesting dropping suspicion. suggesting moving on because she is our town doc until evidence suggests she is not. i think you are scum.

she protects me, i watch her. scum cannot win this game if she and i are town. i know i am town and i as i said: scumspring is extremely convoluted. after giving it some thought, i feel comfortable lynching down the line. i have no problem starting with you.

[Spolium]

no, its not. its

my

perception of

your

words.

Then your

perception

of my words makes me want to tear my hair out, because it's entirely retarded.

- First, you prioritise "bad feeling", although it was last one I listed (and probably the weakest of the points).

did i number them? no.

You don't need to number something to make it first in a list. If you present one argument before others, it is typically a given that it is the strongest argument. I cannot help but feel that it was on purpose, either.

- Second point - concerning the favourable position - has nothing to do with jealousy. That doesn't even make sense.

i don't know how else to interpret your saying she has a "favourable position". linx reads town. are you suspicious of his favorable position?

How else to interpret it? A favourable position means that a position is

good

. That's all. She is a claimed doc, therefore she gets left alone and has lurked through most of the game. If she is scum, then she is in a very favourable position.

I don't have to be jealous for that to be the case, so why read into it like that? How did jealousy even come into your mind? Are you being dumb, or just manipulative?

- Last, the lack of read bothers me because her play has denied the town a read, not because I find a lack of read suspicious in itself (I don't).

i don't get it. you don't find the lack of read suspicious, yet include it on your list of three vague suspicions, slightly above your "bad" feeling?

Okay. I'm going to explain this one more time, as simply as I can.

1. Your "perception" of that point is emboldened here - 'don't you think you should have more on spring than a "bad" feeling, jealousy,

and a "lack of read"

'.
2. I took this to mean that you did not consider my "lack of read" on Spring to be a reasonable jusification for suspicion.
3. I clarified that my concern was in her actions denying a read, as opposed to being suspicious only because I couldn't get a read.

Again, to clarify:
- I do NOT find a lack of read on a player suspicious in and of itself
- I DO find a lack of read suspicious if it is a result of the player wilfully denying a read

she is not confirmed, but i don't see your "valid" concerns

This is likely because, as you have demonstrated, you simply don't understand what my points actually are.

Either that or you're being deliberately obtuse, for reasons at which I can only guess.

she protects me, i watch her. scum cannot win this game if she and i are town. i know i am town and i as i said: scumspring is extremely convoluted. after giving it some thought, i feel comfortable lynching down the line. i have no problem starting with you.

Well, let's just hope you and Spring are town, eh?