Mini 737 - Hack Poetry Mafia (Game Over)

[springlullaby]

Oh, wait. Quack docs do nothing to scum at all?

That's how my quacks roll.

[Spolium]

Is there a form of quack that kills innocents, but doesn't kill scum? I can't find anything about it on the wiki and I've never seen it myself.

Are you serious there? Because this is really unintelligent.

Or uninformed. Nice ad hom, though.

[Spolium]

Can you cite a game in which such a role has been used?

[springlullaby]

Well, being uninformed myself of your uninformedness, it was unintelligentness from my perspective.

Quacks have always been kill innocent/do nothing to scum, or there is nothing to prevent them from being used as vig.

See Quack and masons mini for example.

[springlullaby]

Can you cite a game in which such a role has been used?

Wait, are you serious about doubting me on this?

[Spolium]

Well, being uninformed myself of your uninformedness, it was unintelligentness from my perspective.

Glad we cleared that up.

unvote

[springlullaby]

Well, being uninformed myself of your uninformedness, it was unintelligentness from my perspective.

Glad we cleared that up.

unvote

I'd like you to answer 779

[Spolium]

@779

I'll admit was sceptical at first, because (a) I'd never known the quack role to have that quality, and (b) it isn't explained like that in the wiki. I'm also quite edgy about the fact that Jebus was killed over you (I get the impression that you're a very capable player, and thus a risk to scum) but that opens up a whole world of WIFOM.

Then it struck me that you probably wouldn't make such an outlandish claim since it would invite scrutiny from other experienced players, so I accepted your explanation.

[sekinj]

@ Spring - I think you could be a wider variety of things than just a quack doc... there are lots of different doc roles, as we discussed earlier.

I don't think spoilum has done anything scummy enough to be voted on based on the assumption that you MIGHT be a quack doc.

I also completely disagree with your Lynx thing. he is town.

[sekinj]

plus spoilum gets townie point for unvoting after your discussion

[don_johnson]

I also completely disagree with your Lynx thing. he is town.

^^^^ you say this with certainty. please explain.

[sekinj]

He just seems very town to me. good scumhunting, not overly agressive.

I've seen him in a couple recent games and one just ended where he was town. I felt like he acted very similar in this game and that (well, before he was lynched by the random dice roll).

Open 120 - Rebels in the Palace

[RedCoyote]

The Jebus kill means 2 things:
[...]
- i was probably the one targeted N1

As much as I hate to admit it, I've simply got to believe this to be true.

My knee-jerk reaction to lynch spring has now sunk, and I officially retract it with this post. I have to believe what spring said here to be true. I think both don and spring made valid visits, and I accept both of their explanations. It's unfortunate that don wasn't on Jebus, but, as they say, thems the breaks.

The good news is now I do really find spring to be my number one townie... again.

---

I don't understand why you'd watch Spring over Jebus.

I'd actually rank them at about the same, I don't see a valid priority of one over the other, but I'm willing to hear you out if you have a reason for this Lynx.

---

I'll flesh out a case here, but [Spoilum] is my top scumspect right now. I'm getting mixed reads on Sekinj, but she would be my number 2 choice for lack of a more solid suspect.

I can't wait.

Seriously, I can't. Because my scumdar is pointing at you, Spolium, and sekinj almost by process of elimination. XD

---

Hmm... this is tough. I want to agree with you [about there only being one Doctor].

No, don't! I've changed my mind. Not because of the poetry crap mind you (and I still think that fhq guy gave that way too much stock; what a loon he was ), but because of what spring said in post 759. I just can't honestly explain how Spolium would've been targeted over spring during the first night... unless the mafia No Killed... which just seems so implausible. We're back to the same argument we were having about spring before Jebus claimed.

Every scumhunting, logical bone in my body says that spring was the scum target N1.

...and welcome to the townie-side of my scale!

---

I'd like to know RC's reasoning to lynch me.

B) Jebus is Doctor; spring is scum,

1) Budja admitted to being scum saying this,

Good luck to my scumbuddy. At least I got you the Doc .

perhaps Budja wouldn't have given up so quickly except for the fact that his scumbuddy cc'd him? Perhaps he would've tried harder to explain why he was the Doctor and spring wasn't?
2) spring not having a gaugable opinion throughout most of D2 while she attempts to choose who she would give her "protection" to.
3) Jebus' consistent pressure of spring's identity and for her to state who she protected.

But, as I said, I'm officially retracting that. Today my main suspects lie in Spolium and Goat.

---

Spolium, what do you think of Goat's post 763?
Rhinox, where are you? What do you have for us?
don, does this post give you any more comfort in spring?
spring, explain in a little more detail your problems with Lynx please.
Goat, whenever you get the chance, don't forget about your promise to show us why Spolium is your number one target.

[Spolium]

Spolium, what do you think of Goat's post 763?

I assume you refer to his vote on me. Well, considering that said case amounted to:

Vote Spolium

There is a chance a kill N1 was stopped on him, but with Jebus confirmed, I think the more likely explanation is that a kill attempt on Spring was stopped night 1.

I don't know what to think of it. The above doesn't necessarily suggest that I'm scum, so I don't see what he's getting at. He'd have to explain his case in more detail before I could actually respond to it.

Now, can you answer a question for me?

my scumdar is pointing at you, Spolium, and sekinj almost by process of elimination. XD

What do you mean by "

almost by a process of elimination

"? Emphasis on "almost".

[Spolium]

Re: Goat's 763

He also said

I'll flesh out a case here

But then he didn't. Maybe he meant in a later post.

[RedCoyote]

Spolium, I meant, like, are you surprised at all that Goat suspects you more than anyone else in the game? More than me, Rhinox, or sekinj?

It just seems strange to me that you didn't bring it up at all. Are you suspicious of Goat at all? Is he more townie or scummy to you at this point?

What do you mean by "

almost by a process of elimination

"? Emphasis on "almost".

Yeah, almost because I can't say beyond a reasonable doubt that you are the worst three, but the possibilities are certainly whittling away, aren't they?

I know RedCoyote isn't scum, he's just been playing it way too cool. I don't know how anyone could ever suspect him.

Based on the revelation today, I'm going to say that spring is very probably not scum. It would take, at the very least, a scum no kill during the first night for her to even be seriously considered as scum. There was no reason for Jebus to lie about who he protected during N1, and if he protected spring, that means that, in all probability, spring is innocent regardless of what role she is.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I believe don's claim. I think don is the Watcher and his reports have made sense to me thus far. I've been tracking his posts pretty well and everything he's said has led me to pretty much do a 180 from my position on him earlier.

Lynx and fhq/hohum/millar/...Plonky I think? I'd have to check/Ice have both been on my town list for a little while now. I see no real solid cases against them, nor have I really found anything too bad on either of them.

Unlike some others, I didn't find that whole DO "let's lynch a Doctor claim" thing to be scummy. Like I said at the time, seemed more newbish than scummy to me. Rhinox may be a little overly concerned with defense and not enough with offense, but that really isn't enough to put him over the edge. I've played with Rhinox before, and (don't want to talk about it too much because it's an ongoing game) I think I have a better feel for reading Rhinox. Like, you can't really see it here, but I can track the way he was pressuring people yesterday to explaining why DO was scummy other than because of that one comment I mentioned. You can argue it might seem a little too defensive, but to me that shows he's interested in getting other player's opinions.

That leaves you, Goat, and sekinj almost by process of elimination (obviously I can't eliminate but myself from being scum, which is what I mean by almost, but if we're going by my own suspicions then I can eliminate quite a few players).

[Spolium]

Spolium, I meant, like, are you surprised at all that Goat suspects you more than anyone else in the game? More than me, Rhinox, or sekinj?

I'm not overly surprised if anyone suspects me. I lost my grasp on this game in D2 - the general acceptance of the possibility of two docs threw me off completely - so my D2 play was shoddy as hell. I've already made one bad call D3, so at this point I'm just trying to take everything in.

It just seems strange to me that you didn't bring it up at all. Are you suspicious of Goat at all? Is he more townie or scummy to you at this point?

I wouldn't say I'm overly suspicious of Goat, he's a neutral read right now IMO - good first day, dodgy second day. I'd like to see more from him D3, particulary regarding his suspicion of me.

There was no reason for Jebus to lie about who he protected during N1, and if he protected spring, that means that, in all probability, spring is innocent regardless of what role she is.

Could you elaborate on this? I don't see how the initial premise leads to the conclusion.

Lynx and fhq/hohum/millar/...Plonky I think? I'd have to check/Ice have both been on my town list for a little while now. I see no real solid cases against them, nor have I really found anything too bad on either of them.

I have a mostly town read on Lynx (with the exception of what I noted at the end of D2), and agree largely with the first part of sekinj's #786.

Rhinox may be a little overly concerned with defense and not enough with offense, but that really isn't enough to put him over the edge. I've played with Rhinox before, and (don't want to talk about it too much because it's an ongoing game) I think I have a better feel for reading Rhinox. Like, you can't really see it here, but I can track the way he was pressuring people yesterday to explaining why DO was scummy other than because of that one comment I mentioned. You can argue it might seem a little too defensive, but to me that shows he's interested in getting other player's opinions.

I agree, Rhinox defended himself well.

That leaves you, Goat, and sekinj almost by process of elimination (obviously I can't eliminate but myself from being scum, which is what I mean by almost, but if we're going by my own suspicions then I can eliminate quite a few players).

Okay, that seems reasonable. Is there anything else you want to know?

[RedCoyote]

Could you elaborate on this? I don't see how the initial premise leads to the conclusion.

Well, meaning I believe Jebus protected spring during Night one, I don't see why he would lie about that now that he has flipped Doctor.

Since there was no kill during Night one, we have to come to the reasonable conclusion that three things happened,

Either you, spring, or no one was targeted.

I can throw the third possibility out due to improbability.

And I can assume, reasonably, that spring was more likely to be targeted than you seeing as how the scum would've thought there wouldn't have been two Doctors in this game rather than just one. If spring was targeted, then it's very unlikely she is scum (unless she is an SK or something of that nature).

Is there anything else you want to know?

No, I'm ok right now.

[Lynx The Antithesis]

Goat, I don't understand why spolium. He is like 50/50 to me, and lynx is much scummier in my book.

I'd like to know RC's reasoning to lynch me.

I'm considering a me lynch because 1. seeing my sanity flip might be helpful 2. i'm VLA 6th to 17 april.

So I'm much scummier than Spolium due to the next to nothing case you've presented against me?

What amount of info gained would be sufficient enough to sacrifice 2 townies with you're lynch(if you really are town)? How much would your sanity help us really? Possibly discovering Spolium's alignment?

Lynx 761 wrote:
I don't understand why you'd watch Spring over Jebus.

I'd actually rank them at about the same, I don't see a valid priority of one over the other, but I'm willing to hear you out if you have a reason for this Lynx.

Jebus was pushing the credibility of Spring's claim early Day 2. I saw no reason for scum to trade themselves for the doc day 2 especially after losing one with day 1's lynch. There was no reason to out himself unnecessarily. Lastly, I think a scum who countered a doc would push hard for that docs lynch. I saw him as the obvious doc out of the two.

Now in a way that gives some credit to Spring. Jebus did protect Spring night 1 and a claimed doc would be number one target for scum. The only option for Spring to be scum would be for her to waste the nightkill. Now this doesn't seem probable because I doubt the scum would skip their kill after being down a memeber. The one thing that does bother me is how easily Budja gave up like someone already mentioned. I would think that Budja would at least attempt to muddy Spring's claim rather than just resign to his lynch. I'm still on the fence about Spring. She really didn't do much hunting yesterday. The matching rhyme scheme also points more to Spring being legitimate though.

I'm at a loss at the moment for suspects. I'm questioning myself after being wrong about FHQ. Need to look over some things again.

[springlullaby]

Reiterating in bold.

MOD:

I'm VLA 6th to 17th April. Possibility of checking once or twice, but not certain.

I'll get one good post in before going.

[RedCoyote]

Uh, why are you saying the 6th if you're not going to post this weekend either?

[springlullaby]

Where did I say that I won't post this weekend?

[sekinj]

Maybe he was just going by your past MO in this game...

[RedCoyote]

What sekinj said.

And this:

I'll get one good post in before going.

I mean, unless you think one good post is good for a three day period (3rd, 4th, 5th)?

[sekinj]

or unless 796 was your "good" post...