Mini 761 - Game Over

[Zachrulez]

Now, you see, Steph, this post of yours just made me have second thoughts about you.

Why are you quoting my post which was directed to Zach, not you, and using it to suck up to me by saying that you are "glad [I'm] in the game, and that

"seem pretty town"?

Sigh...I wasn't "sucking up" to anyone. I have been disappointed in the lack of participation from some players in this game. I avoided calling them out by name, because the last time I took the initiative to try and keep things moving, it initiated an attack against me, which I didn't mind going through once, but would be very counter-productive to happen again. Anyway, the player you replaced was absolutely one of those players.

That doesn't explain why you quoted a post directed at me.

I'm not liking how you opened up a whole can of WIFOM with your little NK speculation. If you're town, now mafia could make a point of NKing you, and then have a ready-made case for lynching me the next day. Thanks!

Yeah, the argument is WIFOM. I think I'll just leave it at that. (Since any further speculation is going to be circular.)

[Stephoscope]

That doesn't explain why you quoted a post directed at me.

You just quoted a post directed at me. Does that explain?

[Stephoscope]

errr, directed at Jazzmyn.

[Zachrulez]

That doesn't explain why you quoted a post directed at me.

You just quoted a post directed at me. Does that explain?

Touche sir.

[Zachrulez]

Anyway, what do you think of her points against me regarding my defense/protection of you?

[Stephoscope]

Anyway, what do you think of her points against me regarding my defense/protection of you?

I thought they were valid possibilities (well, some of them--obviously you and I are not scumbuddies, and I know from experience that others will question my saying such a thing, but while *they* admittedly have no way of knowing you and I are not scumbuddies, we both know that is absolutely not the case). I thought that post was very pro-town. Her post 271 was frustrating, but seemed like her heart was in the right place, until that WIFOM stuff at the end which doesn't look good at all.

[Zachrulez]

Well I remember the last time you did a post like 280, you were town.

So you do remain consistent with the meta read I have on you from 707 for the most part.

[Zachrulez]

In fact, your back and forth with Amished does remind me a lot of Newbie 707.

I'm kinda in a similar position as DDD with his read of Amished, where I don't really see anything from what I know of your town meta that indicates to me that you are scum.

Of course, I have no meta read on you as scum, but it's going to take a lot more than a speculative case on Amished's part to convince me to pressure you.

[LesterGroans]

Well I remember the last time you did a post like 280, you were town.

So you do remain consistent with the meta read I have on you from 707 for the most part.

While I don't like playing meta (people who change up their style a lot get off too easy, I like keeping things in-game)and some of the things Steph said are giving me scummy vibes, like:

I'm glad you're in the game, Jazz. conspicuous_other hadn't given us too much to work with,

but you seem pretty town (or at least working hard on our behalf Smile )

Also a hearty welcome to panzerjager.

the bolded part. I can't imagine getting an overtly town vibe off of someone who just started. However, he also welcomed Panzer, so I think it was just overzealousness from being grilled a bit and welcoming in a breath of fresh air. Again, I dunno right now.

[Wall-E]

Are we lynching Stephoscope yet?

[X]

Vote Count

Wall-E

: (5) Debonair Danny DiPietro, Gateway, Jazzmyn, ryan2754, Zachrulez

Stephoscope

: (3) Amished, Panzerjager, Wall-E

Amished

: (2) AshKetchummm, Stephoscope

Not Voting

: (2) alexhans, LesterGroans

Vote Threshold

: 7

Happiness with Posting Level

:

Neutral

[Stephoscope]

For L-1. I'm done my re-read, and it's clear that Wall-E deserves a lynch. I gave him the benefit of the doubt at first, but I just can't envision a townie going so far with this "too scummy to actually be scummy" charade. I am still suspicious of Amished, but not only have I stated my whole case against him and it doesn't look like I'll get the support that would be needed at this time, but also I will admit that there was a touch of OMGUS and over-emotion in the case I did present. If Amished is indeed scum, I am confident that more evidence against him will come to light later.

No OMGUS with this vote; I won't even get into specifics between me and Wall-E unless asked. All else I'll say for now is what someone said earlier about how "Wall-E just wants a lynch that's not him" is still valid. His vote never stayed in one place until he got in trouble; now it stays where it's most convenient for his survival.

Unvote: Amished

Vote: Wall-E

[Stephoscope]

(And here's a big welcome to LesterGroans. This one IS sucking up. Because he's holding a gun.)

[Gateway]

Are we lynching Stephoscope yet?

So what does it say that Steph could have just unvoted and hammered Wall-E. I am still learning a lot so someone with more experience tell me what should be read.

I've seen you go into mafia theories Panzer, so maybe you could help us with this one.

[Stephoscope]

Are we lynching Stephoscope yet?

So what does it say that Steph could have just unvoted and hammered Wall-E. I am still learning a lot so someone with more experience tell me what should be read.

I've seen you go into mafia theories Panzer, so maybe you could help us with this one.

I personally don't think it says anything, given that no one should be expected to hammer Wall-E yet. We were still waiting for confirmation from yourself and others who have votes on him. Townies should understand that awaiting such confirmation is the pro-town thing to do, and a scum hammer would be ultra-suspicious for that reason, so they won't do it.

[Gateway]

That makes perfect sense.

I was planning to unvote in that post but did not want it twisted. Since Wall-E is so close I am going to go through the posts again and make sure. For now I will unvote since I can't unlynch.

Unvote

Expect this to return or to finally be placed elsewhere within a day.

[ryan2754]

Steph, who are you talking about when you say: awaiting confirmation about others. Are you talking about them telling why they are voting for Wall-E?

If so, I believe I already did that.

[Gateway]

That makes perfect sense.

I was planning to unvote in that post but did not want it twisted. Since Wall-E is so close I am going to go through the posts again and make sure. For now I will unvote since I can't unlynch.

Unvote

Expect this to return or to finally be placed elsewhere within a day.

Posts of reference:

82 - My momentum was based on an attack on someone's first page post because of it's wording. But it was first page and obvious randomness, something to read into but by no means worthy of an attack. Vote on Wall-E felt firm

88- While it seems OMGUS, this made things more clear to me. I understand attacking who is wrongly attacking you, townies do it, but Wall-E didn't counter by making me eat earlier words or some such. Wall-E used the "you don't have to be right, just prove them wrong" tactic and brought up a new (pretty thin) subject to throw votes towards his accuser in a safe way. Also scummy. To Wall-e: Just address my accusation in 82 and I'd change my vote or you'd at least prove I was doing something scummy.

235- The wording seemed like something townies would avoid, but scum might use to appear like they have nothing to hide and be scared of. Not really experienced enough and mafia wiki's seem to have two arguments for almost anything. Not an important post, but with others it helped to push attention

289- Off the Wall-E subject for a line, since it was recent, that makes sense. Thanks.

The reasons for my vote are only very early, and very recent. I have not seen those reasons be defended yet though. So I will return my vote. As it stands those posts (except 289) struck me as decision making posts.

Not a lot I know, but I read replies to my questions and have gotten them except from Wall-E. So although they are old posts, I still have to go on them.

Vote: Wall-E

If you are a townie though Wall-E, you have the best POV about who has the most pointless accusations against you. So -if- you get lynched, who have you noticed come after you with the most made up facts or who really seemed to be ignoring your responses to get the vote?

[alexhans]

Re read done... I'm really busy right now so be lenient if I missed something important...
well... I must admit that Wall-e's posts suck...
and this one is no exception

i

have

been intentionally scummy in this game: in the beginning, i started a random fight on almost no pretext and alluded to the alignment of two players, who then argued quite vehemently for our entertainment. from that, i've gained some knowledge, and while it isn't knowledge i will share for no reason other than to save my own worthless neck, it is still helpful to me and my deduction of the thread

if anyone finds the thread to be derailed by my comments, please say so and re-rail it with your own helpfulness

if you want to vote for me for being scummy, please do. i cannot and will not raise a stink

i got off amished's wagon because of the way he's defended himself in the face of the pressure against him

you can draw your own conclusions about amished's posts in this game, but i'm off his trail for this game-day

stephoscope's most recent post is dismissive of my point almost to an evasive level

post 229 is enough evidence for me to keep my vote there for now

Being intentionally scummy to the point of calling for votes against you sucks... How helpful was your play for town? What you think that whoever starts or pushes your waggon the most is gonna be scummy? That's wrong... We will get no clue from your lynch unless you're scum. And not much even then.

I still don't like the plenty thing as an argument to vote Steph... sorry Amished.
I don't like posts like Zach's calling for more votes... i'd rather hear new arguments.
Jazzmin's got a point regarding Ash's level of activity... He keeps his distance but is present...

Right after I posted about not being sure, Wall-E changes my mind. A defenseless townie is a good sacrifice on day one while scum hunting, from what I understand when reading about mafia.

Vote: Wall-E

I disagree. And in fact I'm wary of Pitstop, Gateway, ryan, LZ...and all of you who didnt appear until recently.

@Wall-E: I can barely make sense of what you're thinking anymore. I can't tell who you really think is scummy other than the person you're voting for, and to admit that you've been intentionally acting scummy just shows to me that you have extremely poor reasoning. If you act scummy, wouldn't you expect everyone to call you on it, and not just scum? How is that beneficiary to the town? Besides, *if* you're town, you're wasting our day phase by focusing on somebody who acts scummy but isn't. I hope you either shape up or something cause in the off chance that you are town you're making it extremely difficult on us.

QFT

Well just because I thought zachrulez was scum doesn't mean I didn't stop thinking Wall-E was scum. Let's see where this action and topic take us.

Unvote

Vote: Wall-E

L-2

mmmm... I find that explaining that you're fishing for reactions won't get you any...

@Zach: Yes, but I think the point is that scum can form disputes with other scum just to try to distance themselves from each other, so I think the point that Jazz is trying to make is that you will be judged on your own actions if Wall-E turns scum, and you won't be cleared because of it.

I think the only way in wich we could almost clear him if you were scum Amished No nice feelings between you two...

@Everybody: I would like to wait with a Wall-E hammer until a) he has a chance to post/defend himself and b) people on the wagon have a chance to unvote (if they want to). WRT b); for me having the people that are already voting for him (Gateway, lordzoner, ryan2754, Zachrulez, Jazz, DDD) post is enough of a confirmation. So far, since Jazz put him at L-1, she's off my personal list, and Zach seems fine with it too, so he's off as well. I would assume with the tone of DDD's vote post that he's ok with it as well, but I'm not going to be so bold as to say.

Unfortunately, LZ, who will be leaving us, is already voting for Wall-E, and I'm not exactly sure what to do in this situation. So to finish this post off, I'd like to have Gateway and Ryan give their thoughts on a Wall-E lynch, and everyone to give input on what to do about LZ leaving us with a vote on the L-1 right now.

nice thoughts. Im liking you a bit more Amished.

The reason I held back a Wall-E vote was mainly because of meta. No matter how much Gateway and others feel meta isn't important, it definitely is. I play on other boards, and it's the same 35 people or so playing in the games, and meta becomes extremely important, considering you can actively read (and most people know just from playing so much) about the playing style of certain people. If you have ever played a game with Empking, you'll know how important meta is in the other games he plays. I have looked at one of Wall-E's other games, and well, he is playing very similarly. So I was willing to give an unvote as to give him the benefit of the doubt based on meta. Like I said, the vote is the most important thing we as town have at our disposal. But then, I went back and looked at his posts in isolation, and well, it was enough for me to go back and revote him.

This is EXACTLY why I'm wary of lynching Wall-e...

Unvote: Vote:Steph

I'm with Amished on this one.

This post sucks. Voting without giving a single reason?

Of the top three vote-getters currently I'm leaning to most towards Amished, but I'm going to have another read-through and go from there.

You don't need to jump on a waggon... you could always vote someone else you know?

Damn it... I really find Wall-e scummy but don't want to make a mistake and lynch a bad player just for it...

[LesterGroans]

You don't need to jump on a waggon... you could always vote someone else you know?

I know, and I have other suspicions, but -- like I said -- they were the top three vote-getters when I joined, so I figured their situations required the most review.

[ryan2754]

Alex, can you refresh why you are leery of me?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Well just because I thought zachrulez was scum doesn't mean I didn't stop thinking Wall-E was scum. Let's see where this action and topic take us.

Unvote

Vote: Wall-E

L-2

mmmm... I find that explaining that you're fishing for reactions won't get you any...

And I find that if you push someone to L-2 and then someone pushes the entire thing to L-1 that whether or not people want to respond, they have to respond.

[PJ.]

We aren't getting much more info out of today and Wall-E seems to be the play ebcause of how scummy his early play was.

unvote:Vote:Wall-e

[X]

Vote Count

Wall-E

: (7) Debonair Danny DiPietro, Gateway, Jazzmyn, Panzerjager, ryan2754, Stephoscope, Zachrulez

Stephoscope

: (2) Amished, Wall-E

Amished

: (1) AshKetchummm

Not Voting

: (2) alexhans, LesterGroans

Vote Threshold

: 7

Happiness with Posting Level

:

Neutral

Prodding AshKetchummm.

It is now Twilight 1.

[PJ.]

X: can you please put the votes in chronological order. So we know who piled on where.

X:

I don't plan to do future vote counts in chronological order, but I'll compile the list for you just this once. I kept a regular vote count, so you can see the progression by selecting "Display posts from previous: (All Posts) by X."

The order was:

Zachrulez
ryan2754
Debonair Danny DePietro
Jazzmyn
Stephoscope
Gateway
Panzerjager