Mini 734 - GrimMafia - OVER

[Setael]

O@Vi - I am suspicious of you because your Zach case pulled the spotlight off pablo. I recognize that this only implicateds you if he flips scum and also that you're not totally ignoring him, so I haven't brought it up because it is entirely dependent on pablo's alignment. If he flips scum you will rise to the top of my scumlist. I'm really feeling pabloscum so I'm not about to let anyone tie me to him or you (at least not as casually as BB did without giving me anything to refute.)

[Setael]

Ignore that first O. My iPhone decided to add that at the last second.

[hasdgfas]

Sorry that I haven't been posting guys, I've had the week and a half of death. The rest of this week is going to be just about as bad, with everything that I have to do, so don't expect me to fully catch up until this weekend.

[Archon]

Vi, why should I not vote for you?
Scum can sometimes be some of the most posting people, and you certainly have posted allot.

FOS: Setael, for not posting for almost a week.

So you have threatened a vote on an active player while FOSing one for the opposite reason?

Isn't that a tad contradictory?

Read my sig.

@Vi still waiting...

[Vi]

It's a bit late at night to do a reread post, so that's getting pushed off to tomorrow.
Until then...

Vi, why should I not vote for you?
Scum can sometimes be some of the most posting people, and you certainly have posted allot.

Because
1) Your so-called case against me goes against the extremely common scumtell that Mafia tend to avoid drawing attention to themselves unless they're REALLY confident. (This is by no means denying that it's possible, but it IS less likely for a scumplayer to dominate.)
2) Aside from "oh you post a lot", you have provided no actual basis for believing I'm scum over, say, Looker (who doesn't post a lot) or Zachrulez (who DOES post a lot) or Grimmy (who is obvscum) or whoever.
3) Insightful posts, etc. Challenge the insight if you like.
4) If you DO vote me based on this kind of reasoning, I will likely insult you repeatedly until you remove said vote. If this vote leads to a lynch (and thereby the end of the game), I will feature you in Rule 3 of the next game I mod, along with a link to your post so people can understand the context of why I'm making an example of you. I'm vindictive like that.

So basically quit playing around and contribute. If you have a problem with me, say it outright. If you don't, don't act like you do.

-----

Man, I'm tied to BB/Zach by Vi, Spring/Zach by BB, and Spring/BB by Zach as a buddy. Anyone see something wrong with this? In my experience, people agreeing is never, ever a good thing.

Either epic bussing is happening (very unlikely at presumed LyLo), or ya'll are wrong.

Think about it.

I spy a false dilemma. But I'm not yet sure if the obvious third option is correct... hence the more in-depth reread that's necessary.

-----

@Vi - I am suspicious of you because your Zach case pulled the spotlight off pablo. I recognize that this only implicateds you if he flips scum and also that you're not totally ignoring him, so I haven't brought it up because it is entirely dependent on pablo's alignment. If he flips scum you will rise to the top of my scumlist. I'm really feeling pabloscum so I'm not about to let anyone tie me to him or you (at least not as casually as BB did without giving me anything to refute.)

When I replaced in, I called it as I saw it. It tends to be easier to see people who post more than people who don't (unless it's blatant). I've yet to take a good look at P. Molinero tbh, but that's what the reread's for.

One thing's certain, though - I would NOT advocate anyone else voting for P. Molinero until hascow gets caught up (I'm literally waiting until the Cow comes home) and Looker and Archon stop acting like themselves. This is LyLo, there's no deadline, and I'm not about to lose

another

game by letting some replacements lurk through the last day.

Last,

Vote: Looker

(L-4).

[Beyond_Birthday]

BB - you tied me to Vi AND Spring in that post without backing it up. I have a problem with this since I have reason to suspect both of them. So if one of them come up scum (which I actually find likely), after your last post you could then point fingers squarely at me without ever giving a reason. Please be more specific so I can tell you why you're wrong. What makes you suspect a Vi/me and a Spring/me scumpair? Please answer this without parroting others' arguments. I happen to think zach has a point about a lot of your posts.

I don't.

Setael, I'm not saying your scum or tied to either. I said that you were mildly tied because you and Vi, on your opening posts, attacked Pablo.

On Spring, well, look at Ectomancer and Springlullaby's behavior at the start of day one. They bickered a bit but seemed kind of chummy. So, if Spring is scum, the suspicion of Ecto, thus you, is slightly elevated. It doesn't make you scum as mafia are likely to buddy up with anyone.

Man, I'm tied to BB/Zach by Vi, Spring/Zach by BB, and Spring/BB by Zach as a buddy. Anyone see something wrong with this? In my experience, people agreeing is never, ever a good thing. Either epic bussing is happening (very unlikely at presumed LyLo), or ya'll are wrong. Think about it.

----

Well, for one, I've been moving from Dayton to Columbus to Cincinnati in the past week. (Like, moving, moving, not just driving to and from). Would it be better if I just popped in with a "sorry busy week, lol" and went away? As for when I'm not moving about the state, "Hiding" isn't really an apt word for my behavior, methinks, more frustration and apathy with all the fukkin' replacements and never really getting "into" the game, so I never established any momentum.

(Thanks for your 562, Vi, so I know who the hell is who and who was on the wagons)

As for your other question Setael question about Zach, I'm finding him scummy from both Vi's (high protown player sofar) arguments and his recent "I'd like a lynch, even if it's me" noble-bullshit attitude WHEN WE'RE AT LYLO. No logical town would say that seriously, so I'm highly suspecting that it's just an act.

Vote: zachrulez

Beyond's recent behavior does nothing to inspire confidence (how the hell am I potential buddies to these two, Vi??) in that Zach expresses his desire for a Pablo or BB lynch and BB is quite quickly on the Pablo train. Cause and effect.

All wifom aside:

I'm still good voting Pablo.

He thinks that town thinking together (along the same lines) is bad. Well, I think that town has decided on a common denominator. We all have an inkling that Pablo is scum, and the cases against him are not flimsy. While he may have been moving, his lurking, for whatever ever reason, the comment on town agreeing (when in lylo, 5/8 need to agree), it looks like he is trying to divide the town. So, my vote today is to have Pablo hang. (Unless someone convinces me otherwise.)

Side note:

Setael...wtf? When did I tie you to Vi? I said you too made similar cases on Pablo, otherwise, you two really arn't connected otherwise.

[Beyond_Birthday]

EBWOP: Crosspost:

Hm... at the point Vi bolded,

I think with the part of the post I was concerned about (which basically said town consensus was bad when I read it) negates the bussing statement because it ignores the possibility of all town voting Pablo. Still, that makes a broad assumptiong and isn't necessarily true. Hm.. still requires thought. Maybe Vi is right:

No one vote Pablo yet, at least until Cow catches up.

[Pablo Molinero]

He thinks that town thinking together (along the same lines) is bad.

And how do you know that it is town "thinking together" instead of mafia stringing a couple of townies along? So YES, I want people to be stingy with their trust. I just finished a game where the town insisted on coming to a consensus at LyLo instead of thinking individually for themselves. Obviously, scum walked away with the easy win. And instead of twisting one point of mine, how bout you stop ignoring the others: what about Zach's recent "there has to be a lynch, I don't care even if it's me" and your sudden focus on me (eager to clear your name/divert focus?)

Setael, you talk about my alignment after the lynch. Does that mean you aren't aware of our presumed LyLo, or do you not think we are at LyLo?

[Setael]

I forgot it's lylo. It's not easy to remember since I just replaced in and to me it feels like the game is just beginning. I'll try to get into endgame mindset.

[Looker]

Well excuse me! Exactly what answer were you looking for, Vi? A scummy one...?

unvote

It wasn't what I was looking for, but it's certainly what I got.

What do you mean by that?

Sorry I've been absent - super busy week.

I also would like an explanation from looker. If the only reason you voted me was to pressure me, why unvote before I responded?

Pablo, why are you hiding?

Looker, what do you think of pablo? What is your opinion of the case I made.

Looker AND pablo, what do you think of Zachrulez?

Vi threw me off.

If I could find your case, which I'm sure is pretty nice, I'd post my opinion; however, I've yet to locate said case.

I think Zachrulez is...::sigh::...I'll have to isolate him, Setael... (And here I was trying not to do any work...)

One thing's certain, though - I would NOT advocate anyone else voting for P. Molinero until hascow gets caught up (I'm literally waiting until the Cow comes home) and Looker and Archon stop acting like themselves. This is LyLo, there's no deadline, and I'm not about to lose

another

game by letting some replacements lurk through the last day.

Last,

Vote: Looker

(L-4).

What do you mean stop acting like ourselves? Who in the hell am I supposed to act like?

And what was the vote for? Was I lurkin or you just don't want me to act like me. You twisted, Vi, you know that? You're seriously twisted... (Okay, just joking, don't get too pissed...)

If you need Looker, he'll be :arrow: this way, making a sad attempt to satisfy Setael

[Beyond_Birthday]

He thinks that town thinking together (along the same lines) is bad.

And how do you know that it is town "thinking together" instead of mafia stringing a couple of townies along? So YES, I want people to be stingy with their trust. I just finished a game where the town insisted on coming to a consensus at LyLo instead of thinking individually for themselves. Obviously, scum walked away with the easy win. And instead of twisting one point of mine, how bout you stop ignoring the others: what about Zach's recent "there has to be a lynch, I don't care even if it's me" and your sudden focus on me (eager to clear your name/divert focus?)

Setael, you talk about my alignment after the lynch. Does that mean you aren't aware of our presumed LyLo, or do you not think we are at LyLo?

*Head slams desk* To be honest, my last post had this giant rambling thing about how I was angry about a relatively town post, and then I wifomed myself about how if you were Zach's partner and it came off (even to myself immediately after writing it) as incoherent and needing more of a basis. Therefore, I read your post with the assumption your scum. Your refute is strong though which means...

I have no idea who scum is.

Let me get this straight:

BB can see Zach, Pablo, or [random lurker] as scum, but at the moment, lacks any kind of strong suspect due to the great wavering of play (town versus scum) of half the players and another 1/4th is lurking. Ergo, I don't have a f*cking clue who scum is anymore. I reread, and this game seems to be one giant passive play.

Zach: Pablo, BB, and um.... ???? are possible scum.

Vi thought Pablo, BB, and Zach are likely scum, but is voting Looker as also potential scum.

Setael: Thinks Pablo is scum

Pablo thinks Zach/(and?) BB are scum and .... ???.

Looker: NO idea who Looker suspects.

has: Reading. We need some fresh outlook because I am able to conclude one thing: I am confused.

Archeon: GET IN THE GAME! I ALMOST FORGOT YOU EXISTED!

Until activity picks up (and everyone remembers its lylo), I don't think we're going to be able to win this. Anyone have thoughts on a scum team? I feel a connection or vote analysis is potentially useful.

[Vi]

What do you mean by that?

You are active lurking. If I weren't on your case, you likely wouldn't be posting at all (since you don't seem to have anything to say in your posts now...)

Was I lurkin or you just don't want me to act like me.

Yes.

What do you mean stop acting like ourselves? Who in the hell am I supposed to act like?

Someone who's interested in finding scum.

You twisted, Vi, you know that? You're seriously twisted...

True but utterly irrelevant.

-----

Pablo Molinero:
#0 rvs
#1 rvs
#2 Says a whole lot of nothing. (-)
#3 Considers springlullaby dubious for her speedlynch query
#4 Discusses speedlynch some more
#5 Says more of nothing. Tries to make conversation with people, but takes no stances himself. (-)
#6 spam
#7 Disagrees with the Zer0 wagon. Votes zwet.
#8 Unvotes zwet because Zer0 is being himself.
#9 Gets ready to frustrationvote Zer0. Says spring is not necessarily scum, but annoying.
#10 spam
#11 Defends zwet from accusations of active lurker
#12 Makes a big deal of how he's starting to suspect Zer0
#13 spam?
#14 Votes Zer0, saying he tried hard not to.
#15 spam
#16 Votes zwet for trying to line up springlullaby's lynch
#17 Expresses doubt at zwet's WIFOMy hypocase on springlullaby
#18 Is wary about ending the day but zwet deserves his vote
#19 Tells zwet exactly what he wants from him to bolster the springlullaby case from scummy nothing (+)
#20 spam
#21 spam
#22 I know I've failed at this game, so have you
#23 Makes a very neutral "case" on springlullaby, ending with an FoS and saying there's much work to be done.

she took the easy way out for zwet getting lynched without so much as a second thought. (See also: BB,

Pablo,

and Ecto).

#24 Don't look at me, look at spring!
#25 springlullaby's play was basically "go lynch whoever looks scummy".
#26 spam
#27 Of course I haven't been posting; it's THIS GAME. And now everyone thinks I'm scum. This can't be right!
#28 You absolutely shouldn't band together and think the same way! You might not all be Townies! (-)

His case on springlullaby doesn't do anything for me, as his accusation is heavily ridden with

tu quoque

and IMO she had some justification for arguing with JereIC-Town.

Mmm... His play's been pretty consistent in its extremely vague neutral scumminess. For some reason I'm getting weak n00bTown vibes from this, but I don't see much to substantiate it in light of the above plus the fact that only has 28 posts at this point in spite of being in the game the whole time.

I was going to have another section here on Setael's case on P. Molinero, but I couldn't find anything significant to disagree with in it. I think this is the first time that's ever happened. gj

So my verdict for now is that P. Molinero is likely scum, but for some reason I don't feel 100% confident in it. Not confident enough to call for his lynch before hasLiberal shows up.

[Archon]

Sorry Vi. I was just trying to be active, I guess. So, forget all that crap.

However. I like your points and the summary of what Pablo said in all of his posts (even if it does hint that you have lots of time on your hands :p)

I'm ready to vote pablo.

Unvote,
Vote Pablo

[Vi]

'Hate to say this to you after the niceties, but

No one vote Pablo yet, at least until Cow catches up.

One thing's certain, though - I would NOT advocate anyone else voting for P. Molinero until hascow gets caught up (I'm literally waiting until the Cow comes home)

You placed Pablo at L-1.

I would highly encourage anyone with the Town win condition who is currently voting P. Molinero (B_B, Zach, Setael, Archon) to temporarily unvote.

[Zachrulez]

'Hate to say this to you after the niceties, but

No one vote Pablo yet, at least until Cow catches up.

One thing's certain, though - I would NOT advocate anyone else voting for P. Molinero until hascow gets caught up (I'm literally waiting until the Cow comes home)

You placed Pablo at L-1.

I would highly encourage anyone with the Town win condition who is currently voting P. Molinero (B_B, Zach, Setael, Archon) to temporarily unvote.

Done.

Unvote:

[Zachrulez]

Also to note, Archon replaced Spring, who placed Zwet at lynch -1 on day 2.

[Vi]

Hey look. hasdgfas is onsite. Again.

Why can't unlimited dayvigs count as "Normal" roles?

[Pablo Molinero]

#27 Of course I haven't been posting; it's THIS GAME. And now everyone thinks I'm scum. This can't be right!

Hah, please. All that was, was an explanation. I know my play has been bad. Hell, it's been scummy the way I've lurked, but be it activity in real life, activity in other games, or simple lazy, I've not been able to get into the game. I don't expect it to get heat off me, just an explanation.

As for the "town" agreeing, I'm going to stick by my point. I would understand the suspicion against myself if it had gone FoS, but no vote, from my presumed scumbuddies, but that ain't happening. No deflection of focus, it's solely on me at this moment. (not "woe is me" just stating fact) Zach's unvote makes me pause in my opinion about him, since we're at presumed lylo.

Vi- Do you still think zach and B-B are scum as well?
Zach- What do you think of Setael's play after his initial case against me? Seems like he's content to sit back and let the machine he set up against me run its course instead of probing further. And can you explain your opinion that we HAVE to have a lynch today, even if it's you?

[Archon]

unvote

I just wanted to do it before My memory failed me again.

[Vi]

I would understand the suspicion against myself if it had gone FoS, but no vote, from my presumed scumbuddies, but that ain't happening. No deflection of focus, it's solely on me at this moment. (not "woe is me" just stating fact) Zach's unvote makes me pause in my opinion about him, since we're at presumed lylo.

Possibility 1) Bussing. (Yes, this is a possibility)
Possibility 2) I'm wrong about your scumbuddies.
Possibility 3) You're not scum, contrary to all appearances.

Vi- Do you still think zach and B-B are scum as well?

I'm not sure any more.

tbqh the lynch I

really

want right now is Looker. Not even newbies play like that.

And can you explain your opinion that we HAVE to have a lynch today, even if it's you?

...

[Zachrulez]

Zach- What do you think of Setael's play after his initial case against me? Seems like he's content to sit back and let the machine he set up against me run its course instead of probing further. And can you explain your opinion that we HAVE to have a lynch today, even if it's you?

I'm not really sure what you're looking for with Setael. Your only real defense to her case is that you've been playing lazy, and she doesn't buy that. If you're asking whether or not I think her case against you is scummy, no, I don't think it is.

The question about lynching is simple. Lynching is preferable to no lynching. Lynching me is preferable to no lynching. That is independent of the fact that out of all the possible lynch candidates, I would desire my own lynch the least, that goes without saying. I'm pretty sure we've gone over why lynching is preferable to no lynching anyway...

[Pablo Molinero]

Trust me, I know that a No Lynch is not an option, I'm not suggesting that, but in that you know you're town and we're assuming that we're going to lose if we lynch a townie. If we lynch you (if you're town) we lose, so the option at this point shouldn't even cross your brain. THAT's why I find some of your words earlier very off-putting.

[Zachrulez]

I would understand the suspicion against myself if it had gone FoS, but no vote, from my presumed scumbuddies, but that ain't happening. No deflection of focus, it's solely on me at this moment. (not "woe is me" just stating fact) Zach's unvote makes me pause in my opinion about him, since we're at presumed lylo.

Possibility 1) Bussing. (Yes, this is a possibility)
Possibility 2) I'm wrong about your scumbuddies.
Possibility 3) You're not scum, contrary to all appearances.

Vi- Do you still think zach and B-B are scum as well?

I'm not sure any more.

tbqh the lynch I

really

want right now is Looker. Not even newbies play like that.

And can you explain your opinion that we HAVE to have a lynch today, even if it's you?

...

I'm reading Looker in isolation right now.

And tapping my head about Archon's recent move.

[hasdgfas]

Hey look. hasdgfas is onsite. Again.

Why can't unlimited dayvigs count as "Normal" roles?

because some people have really busy weeks and don't have time to catch up until tomorrow afternoon which is why they're posing in certain places but not others.

[Setael]

OK. Archon. Methinks either you're bussing or Pablo's not scum. As you notice, neither of those options leave room for Archon Town. I really don't see a Townie posting THIS at lylo and putting someone at -1 so lightly:

Sorry Vi. I was just trying to be active, I guess. So, forget all that crap.

However. I like your points and the summary of what Pablo said in all of his posts (even if it does hint that you have lots of time on your hands :p)

I'm ready to vote pablo.

Unvote,
Vote Pablo

LYLO aside (easy to forget, I am living proof), and MAYBE you really are paying so little attention that you have no idea where the vote count is (that happens as well), but what doesn't happen is - townies don't hide behind others' cases like this. Care to share with us WHAT exactly you agreed with in Vi's post? Care to give your own reasons? How about sharing who else you think might be scum?

Then, rather than clarifying or giving his reasons, as soon as his vote is unpopular...

unvote

I just wanted to do it before My memory failed me again.

Zach had already unvoted for safety's sake. So... Archon. Why did you unvote?

I am really hesitant to drop suspicion of Pablo since he's been so scummy while trying to look town imo so I'm leaning toward Archon is bussing. This would surprise me though, since right after my case on him Pablo tried to throw suspicion on spring rather than defend himself, which I really don't think a scum buddy would do. Looking forward to hearing an explanation of his last 2 posts.

@BB: Saying someone is "mildly tied" to someone else is still saying they are tied. In fact, imo it's worse. It's like you're trying to connect me to both Spring and Vi with the option of being able to go back and say "No I didn't" which actually... you just did.

Also, how does it "mildly tie" me to Vi that we both had suspicions of Pablo in our original analysis of the game? That doesn't follow for me.

@Pablo: I'm over here! Look at me! Hello? Do you see me here?

What do you think of Setael's play after his initial case against me? Seems like he's content to sit back and let the machine he set up against me run its course instead of probing further.

First of all, her.

Second, is this you hiding a stab at me in a question to Zach? Why not address me directly if you think I'm "sitting back and letting the machine I set up run its course instead of probing further"?

Third, please explain what you mean by this jab at me because I most certainly have probed further. You've ignored it and chosen instead to say "I was lazy" and avoid defending yourself any further.

Here are a couple of examples to refresh your memory:

Pablo - you entirely avoided addressing my post and instead just talked about spring. Laziness is not acceptable defense for blatant scumminess. You weren't lurking. Instead you were trying to stay off the radar. How is avoiding to state suspicion of players lazy?

Who is this "half the town" and what have they done specifically? Your generalizations do not suffice.

This attempt you made here to throw suspicion on me in your question to Zach is scummilicious.