Mini 771 - Mafia in Ludd: Game Over

[charter]

VOTE Ether

YOUR STREAK OF BEING TOWN HAS RUN OUT!

[charter]

unvote, vote Incog

BANDWAGON!

Hey camn

[charter]

In fact, has he ever bought

you

delicious bacon?

Don't trust Ether's bacon tastes. She MICROWAVES IT. Oh the humanity.

[charter]

25- odd that Xdaamo wagons GC when GC has zero votes.
26- camn says her initial vote was serious
33- OMGUS vote
34- Incog, what about post 26 where camn most definately says her initial vote was serious when she didn't say that I should not be lynched because I can be scummy as town.
39- Yos, where do you get camn was trying to get reactions? of who?

charter: are there any more games that you and camn have been together in?

Not that I remember.

I don't see anything scummy with confirming late.

50- Yos, your second "meh" in your post didn't make anything clear.

Plus, I challenge anyone to show me a game where charter doesn't act super-scummy.

Haha. I can give you a bunch of games where I'm obvtown independant of alignment. The tranquility game was probably the game I've played the worst in ever.

I can't believe this game has already exploded.

unvote

[charter]

I can't believe this game has already exploded.

unvote

Me neither, man.

But I am not saying I was serious

about you being scum

in 26. I was saying that I was seriously anticipating that I would

think

you were scum later on. So I might as well vote now .

Seriously (since all levity is gone).. I haven't seen anything scummy from charter yet this game.

I know you didn't actually think I was scum, but your reason behind voting me was serious, that "charter is scummy as town, so lets just lynch him".

Just for fun, I have a few games where I'm not scummy.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10182
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10086
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10062
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10338

[charter]

unvote, vote Dizzy

You just said you that it's untrue that you aren't scumhunting, then in the next sentence say you haven't added anything. Instead of adding something, you just come back with that post (which just seems like an "I'm here" post and don't ask anyone questions or nothing). I also looked back at your posts, you haven't asked anyone any probing questions or nothing (I guess that falls under not scumhunting) but you've talked about skitzer not confirming at length. Why is skitzer's confirmation time more interesting than questioning people?

[charter]

I mean, she's got nearly 20 posts in this thread. I'd think that's enough to have at least something.

That's also not why I'm voting her. I voted her because she's trying to say she is scumhunting when she got called out on it, but then says she hasn't added anything concrete to the game and does zero scumhunting in that post. But she still says she is. Why do you defend her?

[charter]

Holy simul post batman!
That was in response to 93.

Did you miss my concerns about your last two posts in your rush to jump on that bandwagon?

Yes.

[charter]

unvote, vote Dizzy

You just said you that it's untrue that you aren't scumhunting, then in the next sentence say you haven't added anything. Instead of adding something, you just come back with that post (which just seems like an "I'm here" post and don't ask anyone questions or nothing). I also looked back at your posts, you haven't asked anyone any probing questions or nothing (I guess that falls under not scumhunting) but you've talked about skitzer not confirming at length. Why is skitzer's confirmation time more interesting than questioning people?

Because Skitzer's confirmation time was directly relevent to someone else's attempts at scum hunting. Ensuring that people don't come to incorrect conclusions is kinda important.

You seem to be confusing scum-hunting with asking a lot of questions. Sure, that's one valid approach. Another is to find the right question to ask at the right time. Think of it as the difference between a blunderbus and a sniper rifle. A blunderbus fires widely, covering a wide area and giving a greater chance of hitting the target. A sniper rifle firse a single shot aimed at a specific spot to give a good chance of hitting it's target. Both are perfectly capable ways of trying to kill someone, they just work in different ways.

As for the reason behind your vote and accusation that it's not content... well, would you expect me to just ignore something when someone, as Incognito did, uses it as a reason to vote for you. I answered his charge. That's hardly a content-free "Look, I'm here" post. You can't have it both ways. If you want to use your blunderbus-style question everything approach, surekly you expect people to answer? I mean, if they don't, you'd have a hard timn escum-hunting, wouldn't you?

You're not questioning anybody at all. I'm not saying you need to question everyone, but in your post responding to his vote, you directly contradicted yourself, and failed to do any semblence of scumhunting.

[charter]

Oh right. My charter suspicion stemmed primarily from this post, which I brought up with this comment:

charter's post 67 is a pretty list, but he doesn't draw any conclusions from it. And post 70 is self-defense meta. It feels like he's skating.

At that point he was on my radar. He sealed the deal with the timing of his Izzy vote and the flippant brushoff I got here:

Did you miss my concerns about your last two posts in your rush to jump on that bandwagon?

Yes.

The Izzy vote seems like going after an easy target, and he seems to be using his offensive against Izzy as a way to ignore whats going on in the rest of the game, and specifically to dodge the point I raised to begin with. It is also hypocritical, something I brought up when I voted charter in the first place.

So that is why I'm voting charter.

What were you expecting me to say in response to that? "Ok"? That's about all I can think to respond with. I don't see how I can be "brushing off" something this minute. From what I gather, the whole reason you're voting me is because I voted for dizzy. What kind of response were you expecting? Me to unvote dizzy just because you vote me? Seems like you're trying to make this seem way more important than it is.

Time to read the rest of this monster.

[charter]

Also, charter, you switched votes onto Incognito on page 1 after Ether explained her reasoning, why do that if you don't see anything scummy about confirming late?

That looked like the most promising page one bandwagon.

I also am noticing that Dizzy comes out with almost the exact same case as Ether did, only on Skitzer, not Incog... but Dizzy catches a lot of heat for it, while Ether catches NO heat. What is the difference exactly?

I had just asked her about it because that was really the only time she asked anyone else a string of questions, I don't find late confirmation scummy, so I asked why she was looking in to that rather than scumhunting. Ether has done a lot more than accuse incognito of late confirming.

GC/Xdaamo - Xdaamo certainly looks bad here. I thought GC's initial point and then 121 were good. I think it's getting out of hand with all these text walls now.

I did not conclude that Dizzy = scum.. but I can see charter's point.

I didn't conclude this either.

[charter]

What were you expecting me to say in response to that? "Ok"? That's about all I can think to respond with.

I was hoping you'd go back to that nice list you made and actually draw some conclusions based on it. You've still got a big "Information Instead of Analysis" sign hanging around your neck.

From what I gather, the whole reason you're voting me is because I voted for dizzy.

Hey look, charter is setting up a straw man just to knock it down.

What kind of response were you expecting? Me to unvote dizzy just because you vote me? Seems like you're trying to make this seem way more important than it is.

And he thinks he's knocked it down.

What are you even talking about? You said virtually nothing on me and expect me to have some dramatic reaction, then when I just say nothing in response, I'm scum? Your initial suspicion was poor and the fact that you're presenting it like it's cut and dry that I'm scum is ridiculous.

[charter]

*Goes off on a rant about hypocritical bandwagon votes*

[charter]

*Goes off on a rant about hypocritical bandwagon votes*

You seem to be implying once again that I was only ever voting you for bandwagoning, which is still a strawman.

Can you list it for me, cause before all you said was "Oh, look, charter is hypocritically voting Izzy for something along the lines of active-lurking/not scumhunting. Did you miss my concerns about your last two posts in your rush to jump on that bandwagon?" when you voted. YOUR EXACT WORDS WERE "HYPOCRITICALLY VOTING" SO HOW IS IT A STRAWMAN AT ALL?

skitzer, who do you find most suspicious right now?

Haha, a game I was in just ended like five hours ago where a "miller" claimed day one, not in his first post. Was scum.

unvote, vote Yos

[charter]

charter, the hypocritical part of your vote was not that it was a bandwagon vote, it was that your stated reasons were active lurking/not scumhunting, which up to that point described you just as well as they described Izzy.

No, I voted because Dizzy claimed she was scumhunting, when she wasn't, and then contradicted herself in the next sentence. If she had been like "yeah, I could be doing more" then there would be nothing to vote for.

[charter]

So, OGML; is this some sort of policy vote, or do you actually think, based on everything you know about me and on everything I've posted in thread so far this game, that I am scum?

This is no policy vote.

This is a lie by the way. OMGL voted right after he claimed, giving virtually no hint of moving his vote onto Yos before the claim.

[charter]

I do not like this miller claim one bit. Yos is a skilled enough player to be able to avoid suspicion if he wants to, without needing to claim at this point. It makes no sense to me.

Hmmm, let me test the water and defend Yos and more blending in!
FOS.

I don't understand why there is so much discussion about Yos's miller claim. You're either going to vote him because he claimed scum, or you're going to vote him because you think he's scum. Arguing about when/if he should claim miller furthers neither of these two.

FOS Skitzer for 239. Many bad conclusions in there.

250- Wow, Dizzy has three suspects, but can't vote!

287- More noncomitting from Dizzy!

Exclaimation marks!!!

charter, any opinion on the last 3 pages or so? I can see you've been around.

Not really. Yos claimed scum, still needs to be lynched. I still like Dizzy for scum too. I can easily see them as buddies.

I could lynch either Dizzy or Yos. Both look like scum to me.

[charter]

I do not like this miller claim one bit. Yos is a skilled enough player to be able to avoid suspicion if he wants to, without needing to claim at this point. It makes no sense to me.

Hmmm, let me test the water and defend Yos and more blending in!
FOS.

Why would you quote a line where Izzy is quite clearly attacking me, and then pretend that she's defending me in that line? Why are you inventing stuff to try to tie me to Izzy, charter?

That wasn't a real attack. She clearly doesn't think it's suspicious because that's all she said on the subject, no following up on it, no vote, nothing. You either believe someone is actually a miller, or you think they're scum lying about it, there's really no middle ground. I saw Dizzy saying he doesn't need to claim miller if he's scum, hence she's saying he's town, aka defending him.

250- Wow, Dizzy has three suspects, but can't vote!

If you were paying attention, you'd realise that I don't have suspects yet, and the entire top three post is essentially a response to a request with little to no relevence or meaning.

Yeah, I call bullshit. You can't be 13 pages in and still not suspect anyone and actually be looking for scum.

I think I will actually

unvote, vote Dizzy

again.

[charter]

Yosarian2 - Patrick - charter

Wow, could it be I've already caught the whole scum team?

EVERYONE, JUST QUIT, PACK IT IN. MOD LOCK THIS GAME. ITS OVER.

The only scum you caught is Yosarian and you didn't do any catching.

[charter]

Yes, you can. If, that is, you're not just looking to latch onto the first thing that vaguely doesn't sit right and call scum. Scum aren't the only people who act scummy. The art is sifting between occasional lapses by townies and discerning patterns of scumminess. I don't see patterns emerging yet, just confusion emerging from narrow focus and general theory discussion that does not necessarily add to the data from which opinions can be formed.

Ok... So your plan is to just sit and do nothing until you see a connection? What day do you think this is going to happen on? Why should we let you coast through until this point?

DizzyIzzy's last few posts have been solid. I'm beginning to feel much better about her alignment actually lol.

Wierd, I'm feeling more and more like she's scum.

Gee, thats funny. You blatantly defended Yos shortly after his roleclaim by questioning my motives for voting him, yet at the same time you were voting him. If thats not the recipe for scum distancing, I just don't know what is.

If that's what you're calling it. All I said was you didn't catch Yos like you claimed you did. He did it for everyone.

This post is obvious bet hedging. If DizzyIzzy gets lynched today, fantastic for charter he just scored a mislynch. If Yos2 gets lynched today, sucks that he lost a partner, but at least he's making some inroads on getting Izzy lynched tomorrow for his trouble.

How on earth do you think Dizzy is a mislynch? What has she done that is remotely protown to you?

Here is where charter quietly slips off the Yos2 wagon now that it looks like he might be safe for the day. And on top of that, he pulls the same "Appeal to Page Number" crap. (That tell really needs a better name.)

If Yos becomes a viable lynch target again I will be right back there. Else I think my vote is better on Dizzy than just wasting usefulness on Yos.

Now its my turn to get an idea for who's actually reading my posts.

I only read the parts where I saw my name in that monster. If there's other stuff I should have read, can you bold it or something?

Even happier with my Dizzy vote after calling out other noncontributers and voting Korts.
Korts needs to read or be replaced.

[charter]

Charter, you were in the second game Incognito linked to--what do you think of Xdaamno?

Slightly scummy. I don't really see why me being in that other game with him is relevant unless he fakequickhammers in this game too.

Dizzy is trying to argue that posting less in a particular game is a scumtell. Obviously false. I'm posting a lot more than this in some other games, and less than this in some other games. It really depends on my current interest in the particular game.

Green Crayon's arguing the meaning of a couple and Korts said 9 but it was only 7 or whatever seems really trivial to me.

If you're going to vote Korts for lurking, then just say that, don't try and pad your vote with all this other useless stuff. (OMGL, quick! I'm scum with Korts now too! Better revise your scum theories to include this!)

[charter]

To go from a couple to nine in the span of 14 hours is not semantics. It's an incredibly glaring misrepresentation at one point or the other.

Ok... what I'm getting at is why is this suspicious at all?

My list of suspects is now: Izzy, charter, Xdaamno based on the above.

So you think I'm trying to bus Izzy then?

Having said that, I should note that I probably wouldn't be completely averse to his lynch if the consensus believes he should be today's lynch. Right now, Korts is looking much scummier to me though.

FOS. Seems like you're trying to encourage Xdaamos lynch without getting your hands dirty.

I see that my vote is still on Yos, I thought I switched it back to Dizzy.

unvote, vote DizzyIzzy

GC in 506- From my experience, the conclusions you drew is how Xdaamo plays. I've never seen him really care about a game.

508- Ha, if you'd said, well, Xdaamo is a better lynch than me (arguable because I doubt Xdaamo can claim a role worse than miller) I'd have bought it, but this just makes me more suspicious of Yos.

509- Xdaamo is being a retard. "Don't hammer until I say so, but I'm going to put myself at L-1!". I'm unsure if Xdaamo as scum would do something this idiotic.

Xdaamno's self-vote makes me feel even more than ever that he's likely town. I do not support this wagon.

FOS. If him self voting enforces your belief that he is town, then I think you must be scum trying to gain town cred when Xdaamo flips town. There's absolutely no reason why a self vote should get you town cred. I think I've just convinced myself I think it more likely that Xdaamo is trying to gain sympathy.

I can't recall a single instance where a player who self-voted closer to L-1 happened to be a scum player.

That's odd, this happened in this game where the SK put himself at L-1 early in day one and won the game.

It seems like he just jumped on the Yos wagon when it was becoming popular and then came off when people starting analysing it more thoroughly and asking for reasons;

Where did anyone attack my reasons for voting Yos? I'd still lynch him in a heartbeat if he gets to six votes.

I add Incog to my list of Dizzy and Yos to give you the scumteam.

[charter]

Having said that, I should note that I probably wouldn't be completely averse to his lynch if the consensus believes he should be today's lynch. Right now, Korts is looking much scummier to me though.

FOS. Seems like you're trying to encourage Xdaamos lynch without getting your hands dirty.

Errrr... my intention there should be clear: I believe a Korts-lynch is more likely to hit scum than an Xdaamno-lynch, but I

believed

that Xdaamno had been behaving in such a way that I could have easily seen myself lending my vote to his wagon if people preferred his lynch instead. Given the new information that I received from Xdaamno's self-vote though, I've obviously revised this position and wouldn't support his lynch today at all, but I can't see how you could interpret that as me lending support to his lynch without getting my hands dirty -- I'd have placed my vote on his wagon, and I've been busy questioning him about a lot of his actions all day, which means that if he were lynched and did happen to flip town, I'd be at blame just like anyone else who might have ended up on his wagon.

Further, the only way I could possibly get "my hands dirty" is if Xdaamno is indeed town. Do you

know

him to be town here?

This is bullshit. "Getting your hands dirty" means actually taking part in the lynch. It has no bearing on Xdaamo's alignment, because regardless of his alignment, you as scum, would not want to be a part of his lynch if you can avoid it.

"When" Xdaamno flips town? Don't you mean "if"? You're making it seem like it was just the self-vote that made me think he was more likely to be town. I had also already mentioned that I thought his play was similar to one of the past town games I looked into.

No, I meant exactly what I said, the theory only works with you scum profiting from an Xdaamo town lynch. And I don't know where you got that second part from, I very clearly said "If him self voting

ENFORCES

your belief that he is town", not is the sole basis for your belief.

Also, did you even look at those previous self-voting games I've linked to? I've taken this exact same position in multiple games where I've been town and have found it to be a fairly successful town-tell. I don't think his frustration looks manufactured, I do think his frustration looks genuine and townish, and so I don't want to lynch him today. Do you think my reasoning for thinking him town looks contrived?

No, I'm not going to read a bunch of games that have no bearing on this one (especially when you can pick and choose them to prove whatever point you wish). I think you were hedging your bets that he'd get lynched and tried to earn some town points from it.

Your sudden suspicion of Incognito seems very contrived; even a cursory look at the links he gave would show that he's given people town cred for self-voting in the past. I could understand disagreement, but the fos seems very forced.

Why on earth would I pick now to all of a sudden be suspicious of someone unless I actually thought they did something suspicious? Why would I pick Incog who's so "obvtown" to all you sheep?

And as for the comment in SPQR. Oh I don't know, maybe because it happened BEFORE I knew the SK self voted. So obviously I can't say what I said in SPQR is true anymore. Try and fabricate better arguments next time.

I also love how Incog can't vote for me until others vote for me. His responses were terrible, but you all can follow him to your graves for all I care.

[charter]

So you think that Incog's responses to my FOS's were good? What do you think of my responses to him?

Instead of giving useless comments like that, you could maybe try and elaborate why you think I'm scum, because no one has given much of a reason.

[charter]

The point is if you previously held a certain belief as town that you "don't even remember the last time you saw scum do it when it wasn't a hammer to end the day short" then you should technically see where I'm coming from and should NOT use that as reason to be suspicious of me.

I don't see how on earth you can think self voting is a TOWN tell. I've never thought someone was town for self voting, I generally ignore it.

I don't know.

Convincing argument there. If you want, I can give you a bunch of bad reasons why I would pick now as town to go with your bad reasons I'm supposedly doing it as scum.

Also, Incognito has a very good point on charter's reasoning in SPQR vs. Incog's reasoning in this game.

No, it's actually a wrong reason.

Yos's post is so full of garbage I'm not responding to it. Every single point he made was flat out wrong, and obviously so.

[charter]

And FOS Yos again for the reason I just stated.

[charter]

I'm trying hard not to start insulting people, that's whats up.

I feel like I have genuinely not been scummy. I've been doing really good lately. This is my first time dying before endgame in a long time.

Of course, now someone will take this as a confession to being scum (it isn't)... Oh well.

[charter]

Oh, and no one asked, but I'm sure you all are curious as to what awesome role I am. I am a

mason

. Alignment of partner not mod confirmed. Duhn Duhn duhhhh....

[charter]

Oh, and I have yet to choose who I want to be my partner.

[charter]

No, I get to pick who I want to be my partner.

[charter]

I pick who I want to be my partner. Their alignment isn't mod confirmed. I didn't think it was unclear...

[charter]

No.

[charter]

Uhhh, sometimes? I don't remember the last time I breadcrumbed a role though, normally just names. It's a really easy role to confirm though...

[charter]

Because I target someone, pray they aren't NK'ed, and they can say that they are indeed a mason with me? Neither of us will be mod confirmed, so I'm not really sure if they should be hesitant to out themselves because it isn't going to mean anything and I can target people not aligned with me (though I won't know if I do or not).

[charter]

I only skimmed the past day or whatever it's been since I posted last.


charter, am I to understand that you're just a neighbor who gets to pick who they want to be able to talk to, but there is no alignment shift of your target?

Yeah. Except I'm town, I don't know the alignment of who I pick.

Frankly, this claim reminds me of a fakeclaim for Mafia Recruiter.

FOS. If I was a recruiter than there would only be one person I could target and it would do anything.

camn, a recruiting mason is pretty much worthless since they both don't know the other's alignment.

Ether, why would I think my claim would prevent my lynch? Only one person who unvoted me gave a reason other than, "looks like we've run up charter, seen he has a non-threatening role, time to move on to the next target", which was Yos.

[charter]

Whatever, I don't care, if you're truly that dumb and think I'm making this up, then lynch me. If you've ever played with me, I never pick something this absurd to claim as scum, I always try and out a doc or cop. OH MY GOD, APPEAL TO EMOTION AND WIFOM TOO!!! Let's speedlynch him! (I'm betting that's OGML's next post).

Ether has just jumped up astronomically in scumminess because she hasn't mentioned me all game, then all of a sudden, my claim means I'm scum .

[charter]

Retard

[charter]

Ummm, if the person I claim to target dies tonight, there's no way I'll not be lynched tomorrow.

I'm

not a retard. Orrr, the person I target doesn't die, and can confirm what I said. If they refuse, go ahead and lynch me, then when you see I'm not full of shit, you can lynch the scum.

Your reason is absolute bullshit. The fact that you actually want to speedlynch me reeks of scum too. I think I'm up to five scums... Maybe someone not act scummy for a change?

[charter]

Retard City!

[charter]

I mean a cult? Seriously? That's the reason you're trying to shove behind the votes to lynch me?

When was the last time any of you were in a mini with a cult?

[charter]

charter resorts to ad hom and straw man because he's out of options.

WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU WERE IN A MINI WITH A CULT?

Bolded for farsighted folks.

[charter]

Oh wow, I wish I had looked at my role PM earlier than now to answer Patrick's questions. One of you is about to become my mason parter (it does explictly say mason). I have to use it before the end of day one, then we can talk at nights, including the first night. They then get a PM saying they are in a mason pair with yours truly and the QT. It says nothing about getting mason tagged to their role name, but that's an important question.

Mod, if a mason recruiter targets someone, does their role PM change to reflect this?

I'm thinking I can just use it on whoever is going to get lynched today if it does reflect this, and force the mafia to NK me tonight.

[charter]

It doesn't say what happens if I don't use it before the end of day one, I assume I just lose it.

[charter]

You gotta use it on OGML.

Haha, I was kind of thinking that, but just doing it to show him that he's wrong isn't the best use of it I don't think.

[charter]

If you recruit someone, will they know about it today or only when night hits?

Today, before night.

I don't buy you can become a mason with someone without an alignment shifts. Then you aren't masons. You're neighbors.

Does your win condition change at all depending on who you target? Does their win condition change at all depending on what alignment they originally were?

Take this up with vollkan. No one's win condition changes.

[charter]

Ok, I have received lots of clarification.
If I don't use my ability before a lynch, I lose it.
Mason DOES show up when someone dies, so I can force scum to NK me tonight if that's what you guys want to do.

[charter]

Why would they kill you?

And is there any advantage you you mason-pairing with someone who is not about to die?
You get nighttalk, I assume.. but how does that help us?

Because I'd be confirmed?

I hadn't really planned on talking to whoever I target, I don't think there's any advantage.

[charter]

We already know that Charter's mason recruit isn't nightkillable.

What?

[charter]

We shouldn't lynch Korts. There's an easy way to tell if he's telling the truth. Still want dizzy or Yos or Incog lynch.

[charter]

Unless you give some really good reasons why, both Izzy and Incog look far from town to me.

[charter]

What I highlighted in 539, didn't really like his rebuttal in 547, then only voting for me after others had.

His voting record recently is really bad in my opinion. He's been on me and Korts, and there's zero reason to lynch either of us today. He was on Dizzy before, and I thought his case against her was good, but it magically vanished at one point, never to hear another word from it again.

[charter]

Umm, I think there's only eight hours to deadline. I'm going to go ahead and target Izzy when I get back from class in three hours, so that's who we should lynch.

[charter]

Guys, I just used my ability on DizzyIzzyB13. Lets lynch her.

[charter]

4: Lynching requirements are set out in the previous post. Once a lynch is decided, the decision is final. Feel free to continue posting until the thread is locked, but unvoting, etc. before I check the thread will not prevent the player from being lynched.

MOD

does this mean we need seven votes for a lynch at deadline, or will the person with the most number of votes be lynched? There wasn't a previous post to reference.

Right now I think it's
DizzyIzzyB13 (5/7): charter, Xdaamno, Yosarian2, Ether, Korts
Xdaamno (3/7): Green Crayons, camn, Patrick

By my count we need two more if vollkan is going to make us seven to lynch, though I just don't think he's been able to check this in a while. I'm also seeing just a little over three hours until deadline, so we should get a move on. I'll be around until then I believe.

[charter]

Guys, I just used my ability on DizzyIzzyB13. Lets lynch her.

[charter]

Vote Yosarian2

Claimed scum yesterday. A gunsmith and a tracker? Looks like he hedged his bets wrong.

[charter]

Patrick: I too am bothered by skitzer. An additional point against him is how he spent a large percentage of his time yesterday denouncing the issues against DizzyIzzy and giving flak to the people who brought them forward but then ended the day with his vote on her wagon anyway by seeming to "tailor" a case against her. I think it's rather odd for him to originally not see what people were getting at with her but then seeming to magically see the light right at deadline when he was pressured to finally place a vote.

Yes, this worried me too. Skitzer has been uber lurking, but he seems to do that everywhere.

Ether is also playing starkly differently from the game I modded she was in where she was town, soooo, that's kind of suspicious too.

[charter]

I don't think there's a vig. I think it's a SK because a vig would have shot Yos. However, normally, SK's don't use guns, so it does make the gunsmith role more of a question.

[charter]

I don't think there's a vig. I think it's a SK because a vig would have shot Yos. However, normally, SK's don't use guns, so it does make the gunsmith role more of a question.

Eh...the whole point of a gunsmith roles is that the mafia has guns, but so do some pro-town people (generally cops, vigs, perhaps PGO's although that dosn't really matter, perhaps some others), so a "gun" result is significantly less useful then a guilty, and may actually out a pro-town power role if the gunsmith isn't careful. I've never seen a gunsmith in a game without a pro-town gun, never. This could be the first, of course.

I'm not arguing this. There were two kills last night. I don't think either was from a pro town source, because a pro town player with a vig shot would have shot you last night. That's how I come to SK.

[charter]

Wasn't that the hammer? What else is there to talk about now?

[charter]

Oh. Well, I'm not opposed to an Ether lynch. I'd prefer a Yosarian one, but not going to stop Ether's. She hasn't done a whole lot this game and is now uberlurking, despite browsing mafiascum numerous times.

[charter]

Well, I am pretty lost. I am also wondering why some people are still alive, why Korts is not dead yet, and why on earth Yosarian was killed. I will be rereading and posting thoughts.

[charter]

Oh, I am pretty sure we need to massclaim today. With two kills each night, a mislynch today will probably be game. I think I should reread and come up with an order.

[charter]

Mmm.. if this is a two mafia group set-up like I think it might be (two mafiates per group), we might not only need to lynch correctly but also make sure to lynch the scum of the Mafia group that Ether was

not

a part of in order to still have some kind of a chance. It

could

still be a one mafia group and one SK set-up and the "Red Mafia" thing might be thrown in there as a red herring, but I'm thinking the two mafia group thing is looking more and more likely.

Actually, this makes a lot of sense. Scum would never never NEVER kill a claimed miller. The only possible reason for doing so is they believed the miller to be a traitor or a member of another scum group. Although, all of this still pretty much holds up if there is a SK too (they need to kill mafia at some point). However, two groups of mafia with two people seems like an impossible amount of scum for a mini.

Currently on page ten or so.

=======================

Page 34 Votecount

charter (0/4):
Green Crayons(0/4):
Incognito (0/4):
Korts (0/4):
Patrick (0/4):
Xdaamno (0/4):

Not voting (6/6):

charter, Green Crayons, Incognito, Korts, Patrick, Xdaamno

With 6 alive, it's 4 to lynch.
=======================

Countdown To Deadline

[charter]

No, I have not ever seen that setup. That seems quite difficult on a town, but now I know not to rule it out in this one.

Page 20 now.

[charter]

Ok, reread. Will post the thoughts after massclaim.

Xdaamo
Patrick
Incognito
Green Crayons
Korts

My claim is still the same.

[charter]

Well, I haven't read all that yet, but calling bs. No possible way we have a watcher in this game. Those are so ridiculously overpowered and we already have two investigative roles.

Plus, OGML died night one, so Incog should have known that Ether killed him, so he should have been going hard after her all day. Must go check this and read that wall.

[charter]

Hmmm, actually I did go back and look at it. You did seem pretty adament about Ether being scum at the start of day two which seemed to come out of nowhere. I'm relatively sure you're not Ether's scumbuddy, and also because Xdaamo looks a lot like Ether's buddy, because you did go after her pretty hard. I had forgotten.

I'm just worried that you're not a town watcher. I could easily see a scum watcher and you being in another scumgroup (prolly with Korts).

[charter]

I mean, it can't be this easy, so as to just lynch the claimed vanillas. There really wasn't any point to this game if that is the case. Massclaim at literally any point during any day would have broke this if both you and Korts are telling the truth and are town.

[charter]

I want to vote Korts.

[charter]

Korts, which of Patrick and Green Crayons do you want to lynch more, and why?

[charter]

Incognito, why did you have to wait until after Green Crayons when none of your actions or anything pertained to him?

[charter]

Green Crayons. You seem quite sure in what you want to do, why no Xdaamo vote?

[charter]

I need to go see if Incog pushed for Xdaamo. I'm thinking it might be Ether/Incog/Xdaamo with Patrick as SK. I don't think two scum groups is possible.

[charter]

Incog's claim really doesn't mean anything if you think he's in a three person group with Ether (Xdaamo is included because he's prolly scum) because then he could have just bussed Ether day two, knowing she could never make it long. His Korts result means nothing because Korts said that's what he did first. The watcher in here is just too good for town.

=======================

Page 36 Votecount

charter (0/4):
Green Crayons(2/4): Korts, Incognito
Incognito (0/4):
Korts (0/4):
Patrick (0/4):
Xdaamno (0/4):

Not voting (4/6):

charter, Green Crayons, Patrick, Xdaamno

With 6 alive, it's 4 to lynch.
=======================

Countdown To Deadline

[charter]

I'm pretty sure no one is trying to lynch anyone else for the sole reason of being on Ether's wagon.

Incog, do you not see how claiming a third investigative role is met with heavy suspicion by the rest of the town?

[charter]

Sorry, I'm not in the mood to read page 35 onwards.

Then get yourself replaced. We dont need your self centered shit here.

[charter]

I will read it tomorrow. I didn't intend to ignore it.

Ok. It sounded like from your earlier one you had no intention of reading the last page at all. I didn't realize you just weren't doing it now.

[charter]

Am really leaning towards Xdaamo lynch. Clearly scum. Must reread the last bit though.

[charter]

Sorry, will read and post today.

[charter]

Pretty sure Korts is not scum, and certainly is not scum except with Incog. I doubt he would have thought, as scum, that there was another trackeresque role out there.

I'm pretty sure Xdaamo is Ether's buddy. Patrick is my next choice for scum. I think it's unlikely that he is scum with Ether/Xdaamo however. He really hasn't said much today I don't think. I will go back and review Patrick and make a case if it is merited.

[charter]

I'm pretty sure Xdaamo is Ether's buddy. Patrick is my next choice for scum. I think it's unlikely that he is scum with Ether/Xdaamo however. He really hasn't said much today I don't think. I will go back and review Patrick and make a case if it is merited.

I've said more than you, both today and in previous days. The only thing I haven't yet done is decide on someone I'm happy lynching, mostly because any scum pairing I can think of has something weird about it, and so does the idea that we only have 1 mafia and 1 SK left, for balance reasons.

This isn't a contest. Also, the fact that you can't come up with a scum theory that makes sense means you're probably scum so you can't present one that adds up with you not in it. I can't decide between all the theories which one I think is right.

[charter]

I didn't say that I can't come up with a theory that makes sense, I said that each of them has something weird to it. It happens pretty often.

I would like to hear some of your theories and what you think is wierd with each, if you don't mind.

[charter]

I am thinking pretty much the same as GC. I'm pretty sure Xdaamo is scum, Patrick is looking like scum of some sort as well. Sorry Incog, but I'm not thinking two groups of mafia.

vote Xdaamo

[charter]

Korts, why are you voting GC? What do you think of Xdaamo and Patrick?

Xdaamo, that's a terrible way of defending yourself. You haven't been scummy recently because you haven't been in the game. Also, your role didn't switch after day one, so your scumminess then is just as relevant now as it was day one.

[charter]

Lynch Xdaamo?

[charter]

I'll vote Patrick or Xdaamo, either one. Still don't see why I should vote GC, he looks town to me.

[charter]

vote no lynch

[charter]

Korts, it would be in your best interest to die tonight and remove all doubt of you being scum.

[charter]

vote no lynch

[charter]

Patrick, why do you not want to nolynch?

[charter]

Lame. Whoever the last scum is sucks. Still think it's Xdaamo.

[charter]

Definately going to lynch today. This should be an easy game for us to win. No point in a tie.

[charter]

Well, I still think it's Xdaamo. Patrick, what are your thoughts, and why should we lynch Xdaamo?

[charter]

Korts is town. That is a fact. Incog cleared him.

I'm ready to vote Xdaamo. Any last words?

[charter]

Fuck it. Sorry if this is wrong.

vote Xdaamo

[charter]

Lame. Good job Patrick.