Mini 757 - South Park Mafia (Game Over)

[Empking]

Don't know why RBT didn't claim, it might have saved her.

This stands out to me. RBT did claim, she claimed Mr. Mackey. It wasn't whether or not she claimed that got her lynched. It was her response to being asked about the post restriction.

She didn't claim her Power Role.

(I doubt changing her story would've saved her though?

[Spolium]

This stands out to me. RBT did claim, she claimed Mr. Mackey.

Don't you think that claiming her real role would've encouraged one or two votes to be dropped?

Why did that stand out to you, exactly? I'm not sure what you're implying.

Preview Edit:

I doubt changing her story would've saved her though?

It's probably better that we don't get into that particular discussion.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Her full claim suggests she thought I was pushing for a full claim.

She didn't claim her Power Role.

Wasn't really a full claim if she didn't claim her power role now is it?

[Empking]

Her full claim suggests she thought I was pushing for a full claim.

She didn't claim her Power Role.

Wasn't really a full claim if she didn't claim her power role now is it?

That's BS

Vote: DDD

[Spolium]

I agree.

vote: DDD

for fallacious reasoning.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I am in fact incorrect, I went back and looked closer at RBT's post and she claimed vanilla. I missed that on first go around, apologies.

[nicoliosgotpolio]

Im here sorry

[GhostWriter]

I am in fact incorrect, I went back and looked closer at RBT's post and she claimed vanilla. I missed that on first go around, apologies.

I don't think that's nearly as bad as you attempting to set up Empking on something weak like this:

Her full claim suggests she thought I was pushing for a full claim.

She didn't claim her Power Role.

Wasn't really a full claim if she didn't claim her power role now is it?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I am in fact incorrect, I went back and looked closer at RBT's post and she claimed vanilla. I missed that on first go around, apologies.

I don't think that's nearly as bad as you attempting to set up Empking on something weak like this:

Her full claim suggests she thought I was pushing for a full claim.

She didn't claim her Power Role.

Wasn't really a full claim if she didn't claim her power role now is it?

Which was because of my misread, I didn't think RBT had claimed anything other than her post restriction and her character so with that in mind Empking's statement would be suspicious because in Danny's world of make believe it wasn't a full claim. However, when I went back and re-read RBT's post and realized she had claimed vanilla that I realized I was in the wrong. Just a dumb mistake really.

[charter]

Spoilum has been warned about breaking her post restriction.

[EsoMonty]

This stands out to me. RBT did claim, she claimed Mr. Mackey.

Don't you think that claiming her real role would've encouraged one or two votes to be dropped?

Why did that stand out to you, exactly? I'm not sure what you're implying.

I don't think she should have full claimed right off the bat. But should have full claimed when she was at L-2 or so. A false full claim means you are catching yourself in a lie, which is suspicious in my book.

What stood out was that caf totally ignored that she did indeed full claim. So what if it was a false claim. A false claim is still a claim.

[RestFermata]

It kind of looks like DDD wasn't reading, just looking for reasons to attack other players. Why trust someone else's second-hand information when you can go back and read? That tickles my scumdar.

I think the RBT lynch was unfortunate. Since I only read it in retrospect, already knowing that RBT was town, it's hard for me to get an objective view of it. I don't know whether I would have joined in the lynch or not--the deadline definitely made it more difficult--but I doubt he could have saved himself by claiming Weak MD, honestly. A more well-timed claim probably could have helped. I think that I agree with RBT's implied sentiment that the role proves more dead than it would alive, (as with the "we can prove Empking as scum" hint that caf found) so I kind of understand why he claimed vanilla. Otherwise scum could have used that knowledge to nullify any benefits that the role had. Like I said, I strongly disagree with the timing of RBT's claim, which made it impossible for him to believably "re-claim" even when pushed close to the lynch.

So a lot of the suspicion on RBT seems like it was legit. It's hard for me to pick out scum from the wagon. RBT really did act very strangely. The only person I'm really suspicious right now is DDD. I know he's a popular suspect right now, but beyond the fact that he somehow totally missed RBT's claim--which was a main reason for his initial suspicion, by the way--his posts are somehow strange. He did some quality fence-riding in his support of the RBT lynch, hopping on the wagon without really selling it. Some of his arguments were sound (though previously stated), but some of his logic bordered on "policy lynch" territory:

...if we assume her post restriction is authentic then her lynch would be helpful in at very least eliminating how the town is broken up between scum and town.

Since he didn't even seem to have known that RBT had already claimed vanilla, I could definitely also see this as a thinly veiled attempt to find out whether or not there is a connection between post restrictions and power roles. I don't know what "how the town is broken up between scum and town" even means. If he means character-wise, it really has little to do with post restrictions since even on D1 it would probably be safe to assume that a player's character will be revealed upon death. If he means whether scum might have a post restriction, I still don't see why it makes much difference, since anyone can fake a post restriction. And that's the core of the matter--why should we "assume" anyone's post restriction is "authentic" anyway? The only people who can really feel fairly confident that someone's post restriction is probably real would be scum. This strange comment may seem pretty minor, but it elicits a significant eyebrow raise from me.

I'm going to cast a third vote for DDD.

Vote: Debonair Danny diFranco

You could point out that my contribution has been negligible so far, but I was V/LA. There's really no excuse to replace in and not only miss the fact that RBT claimed vanilla, but also everyone else's comments on it, which were prominent throughout the rest of D1. Reading selectively is scummy, and it earns my vote.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

It kind of looks like DDD wasn't reading, just looking for reasons to attack other players. Why trust someone else's second-hand information when you can go back and read? That tickles my scumdar.

I was looking for inconsistencies and weak arguments, not just to blithely attack someone. I was reading Empking's posts, because of RBT's suspicion, in the context of Empking's posts when based on one of his posts I made an incorrect assumption. It's not like I'm trying to hide that fact though or argue the point anyways, made a mistake, it happens sometimes.

I think the RBT lynch was unfortunate.

Fluffy words that mean nothing and simply give the appearance of being pro-town, not something a townie has to do.

The only person I'm really suspicious right now is DDD. I know he's a popular suspect right now, but beyond the fact that he somehow totally missed RBT's claim--which was a main reason for his initial suspicion, by the way--his posts are somehow strange. He did some quality fence-riding in his support of the RBT lynch, hopping on the wagon without really selling it. Some of his arguments were sound (though previously stated), but some of his logic bordered on "policy lynch" territory:

You suggest I was fence-sitting, but then you claim I used (some) sound arguments and some policy-ish arguments. If I was clearly making arguments for the lynch, then I wasn't really fence-sitting was I? I was promoting the lynch. It looks like you're simply adding in more things to indict me on instead trying to find the truth.

And sure there was a policy lynch component to it, if the policy is that a lynch is the town's biggest asset and not using it is almost always a mistake.

~

I'm not hacking up the quote on the final part, but maybe I didn't explain myself very well at the time. Lynching Mr. Mackey (the PR wasn't relevant other than to give away who RBT was) would provide additional information about whether or not the setup was 4th graders vs. Adults (clearly not) or some other configuration.

~

I'll give another re-read to this thread sometime later tonight or tomorrow and see if I spot anything interesting.

[nonny]

I agree on the fact that if she did come out with her power role she probably would have been lynced as well because of the poeple that believe in LAL.

I still need to catch up. Will have a full re-read done by 5pm tomorrow. Had to make up work in classes first, sorry >.<.

[Spolium]

Timmmahrrrrrhj

I didn't think RBT had claimed anything other than her post restriction and her character

DDD, I'm having some real issues accepting the "I missed the full claim" explanation.

Yes, I'm Mr. Mackey. Sorry scum, but I'm vanilla. Happy now?

How the TIMMAH did you notice her nameclaim, but miss the vanilla claim?

Timmarabajooooo TIMMMAAAAAGH!

[Spolium]

Timmity Timmity TOOOOORAAAGH

nicoliosgotpolio, RestFermata, Zazier: Your thoughts on yesterday's events, if you please.

TIMMY

[caf19]

What stood out was that caf totally ignored that she did indeed full claim. So what if it was a false claim. A false claim is still a claim.

Er, what I meant by that was 'I don't know why she didn't claim her role'. She obviously wanted to survive to night without anyone knowing she had a PR, so she could use it (and protect someone, or nail them as scum as she appeared to be planning to do) without getting NKed. However, as she had so much suspicion on her the natural play would have been to claim doctor, not keep pretending she wasn't one. I'm not ignoring the fact that she claimed vanilla. I even reacted to it yesterday (post 138).

I too have been finding it somewhat unlikely that DDD would miss RBT's vanilla claim when it was a central part of yesterday's events. However, I just reread DDD's 279, which says:

Barring that the logical explanation is your role will help you, but it seems you're exceedingly eager to make a role claim because you're only at L-3 which means there's plenty of time to move suspicion off you the old fashioned way without compromising the secrecy that usually is to the advantage of a power role.

Which does kinda imply that he hadn't read the vanilla role claim as he was anticipating a power role claim from her.

I do agree that his reasoning for voting RBT yesterday was pretty thin. DDD, I want to know who you suspect today and why.

[RestFermata]

You think I'm scummy just for saying the RBT lynch was unfortunate? Maybe if it was my only comment on it.

Perhaps fence-riding isn't the right word, but I was referring to this post:

23 and a half hours till deadline. While I'd like to hear from RBT again, we shouldn't press our luck too far and end up with a no lynch even if that means caf is the one who has to grit his teeth and place the hammer.

It almost seems like you're blaming his lynch on the deadline. It strikes me as "backing away from it" a little bit.

I believe that DDD honestly missed the roleclaim, caf. I think that's just as suspicious as ignoring it, because it suggests that he is selectively reading, as I stated before.

[Empking]

Spoilum has been warned about breaking her post restriction.

And with this post my Town Read on Spoilum has gone bye bye. Mod confirming a PR is a scum power role not a town power role.

I'm going to think about this a little more.

[EsoMonty]

And with this post my Town Read on Spoilum has gone bye bye. Mod confirming a PR is a scum power role not a town power role.

I am honestly not sure I am following your logic on that one. Could you explain more?

[Empking]

And with this post my Town Read on Spoilum has gone bye bye. Mod confirming a PR is a scum power role not a town power role.

I am honestly not sure I am following your logic on that one. Could you explain more?

The mod would not confirm a town post restriction.

[EsoMonty]

I thought charter was a tricksy moderator... I am not sure how much stock I am going to put into your thought.

[ZazieR]

Will post tomorrow. Something important which has some influenece on my activity happened this weekend.
Hope you all understand, and sorry for all the problems I'm causing right now.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

It almost seems like you're blaming his lynch on the deadline. It strikes me as "backing away from it" a little bit.

Yes, I'm blaming the deadline for the lynch to a large degree. I came into the game four days before deadline, Dej was just at L-1 and all the suspicion quickly flowed from him to RBT after Dej's claim and by the time that bandwagon had reached critical mass there was basically no time left to find another target even if we wanted to. So at that point it became an issue of lynching RBT vs. no lynch, where the lynch of RBT was better, but wasn't the best option.

I believe that DDD honestly missed the roleclaim, caf. I think that's just as suspicious as ignoring it, because it suggests that he is selectively reading, as I stated before.

If I "honestly" missed the roleclaim (and I did) as you state then that would make it a mistake. Yet you insist on calling it selective reading like I willfully avoided the post. Furthermore, as far as I can see "selective reading" would be a null-tell anyways, since it doesn't help town or scum.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Anyways, caf, I don't really have a prime suspect so far today, not enough content from too many players. I did go back and looked at the posts of the player's who haven't been around much and I already have as many or more posts as a replacement then several of them who started the game. I get that real life happens, but frankly that's just unacceptable to me.

ZazieR: I don't like the immediate question of Spolium's PR when patience would've provided an answer. However it's just as likely the actions of over-anxious town as probing scum. Null tell. Frankly, almost all of her early posts are about the various PRs, though I like her note of Eso's post about Spolium. More likely town than scum, just got caught up in the issue of PRs instead of finding scum.

Eso: Agrees too much with what's already posted. His quote, "God help the town if Spolium is Mafia." is likely to ripe for over-analyzation, but basically every way I turn it it looks scummy. I think his attacking and voting lurkers is ironic and nonsensical. After RVS his first vote was placed on my predecessor who at that point hadn't posted for eight days and had only confirmed/RVSed. Either he was looking for an easy target that wouldn't raise any suspicion or he didn't do any critical thinking about the situation. I don't like either answer. Think he's more likely to be scum than town at this juncture.

Nico: Eight of her 17 posts have had no real game content. That's a terrible ratio to have. Can't get much of a read because she doesn't really have any long posts. This one post does seem suspicious... "Like, I believe her claim but I just don't think it was necessary.

If she wasn't Mr. Mackey, whoever is would have said so. I'm not going to vote her

, but if everybody else does I'm not going to push against it." To everyone else in the town a Mr. Mackey claim didn't automatically = innocent, but Nico either makes a huge assumption or has some knowledge of the setup that the rest of us don't. The only people/person who'd likely have such knowledge are scum. More likely to be scum than town at this juncture.

Rest: Was basically V/LA for most of the first day. Don't like her play on the second though. Seems to be jumping on the easiest convenient target with wishy-washy arguments. I could be biased however knowing my alignment, so right now she's a toss-up.

Ghost: Seemingly V/LA for most of the first day, couple that with a couple posts lacking content and there's little to get a read on. No real objections to his play so far though. More likely to be town than scum at this time.