Mini 761 - Game Over

[Gateway]

Truthfully I have been watching the various slinging back and forth, Wall-E was a very early vote and many pages later I decided I am not sure.

As it stands there is no day one yet and I won't presume I can outplay other players just yet. So I base my decisions on facts.

On day two we'll have two people eliminated and then by rereading posts we can really start to see who was scummy.

Until then I will admit a tendency to bandwagon on day one.

[Wall-E]

Unvote: Vote: Stephoscope

After reading the exchange between these two, if either of them is scum I think Steph is the one.

I noticed you didn't respond to my point that you've tried to fool everyone into believing that my "soft vote" (as always, your words) was your main reason for voting for me. Why wouldn't you address that, Amished?

Why would Amished be trying to fool you into believing his motive was something it wasn't? I mean that, I can see him being scum and now having to defend his vote, but that doesn't change anything. Your point should be, "The way he is presenting himself is characteristic of someone who is being untruthful about their motive. Here is how and why: blah blah blah." The tone of Stephoscope's posts are not that of a person trying to improve the situation, but rather prove themselves right. Dr. Phil calls that right-fighting. You're behind your position no matter what. The bias nearly drips from her posts.

[Wall-E]

the point, stephoscope, that i'm making in post 226 is this: If Amished is scum and trying to repaint or perhaps simply invent his pro-town motive for voting you, why not ask him, "What was your motive?" Because his answer has already been given. Therefore your only recourse is to stop pleading with him and prove your case in a point-by-point, easy-to-understand manner, kind of like the opposite of this post.

That is why I'm picking Steph over Amished in this debate. Both/neither of them could be scum for all I'm aware given the majority of their posts, but the quoted bit in 226 was where my brain went, 'OK, it's Steph or neither of them.'

[alexhans]

Im glad someone looked at pitstop and gateways low content (althought gate is excused). I found it somewhat scummy.

in fact... I had written this:
Wow... I invite anyone to read Pitstop posts in Isolation... There's so little content. But one fast vote on Steph based on Amished's hunting. 113. I've researched on your post's on mafiascum and you seem to act the same in every game... Not adding to much so maybe is just your style.
But didn't posted because he posted something and voted and have to analize it yet.

I may be sitting back but I wanna make a good reread to try to unravel all this mess.

And Wall-es previous posts sucks. scummily sucks. But then again I haven't heard good references about his playstyle so he could perfectly be town.

[Stephoscope]

The tone of Stephoscope's posts are not that of a person trying to improve the situation, but rather prove themselves right. Dr. Phil calls that right-fighting. You're behind your position no matter what. The bias nearly drips from her posts.

I'm town, and I feel that I'm being attacked unexpectedly and unfairly. You're damned right I'm going to try and prove I'm right. Because I am.

jazzmyn: I appreciate your thoughtful analysis, but I need to correct you: I am not "defending/protecting" Zachrulez in any way, shape, or form. I haven't seen anything from him to make me especially suspicious, but I could say the same of numerous players here. And how in the world can you claim I am defending both Zachrulez and Wall-E?

And sorry for the all caps. I was pissed!

[Stephoscope]

Oh and, again, I'm a guy.

[AshKetchummm]

Ash: Seems to be saying as little as possible while still maintaining the appearance of scum hunting. Fence-sitting on Steph in his post (iso) 3, saying he is leaning town on Steph but his vote might make its way over to him, yet by post 5, he declares that Steph is "trying to be beneficial to the town" and votes Amished. In post 6, he notes that Danny is defending Amished, but doesn't make any mention of the fact that Zach is similarly defending Steph. Seems off. On the other hand, he is the only one to mention Wall-e's unvote from the Amished wagon, which I noticed and thought unusual. Present read: Neutral-scummy.

@Jazz In my 3rd post I did in fact say that I thought he was pro-town but wasn't completely convinced and would like to see more. He followed up and gave quality post after that, so the fact that I say he is also being beneficial in post 5 is somewhat irrelevant (it's what I believed before anyways).
As for your second point on my 6th post. I would focus more on someone I thought scummy being defended then I would someone I believed to be town being defended.


also @ Wall-E

again could you please explain why you decided to get off the Amish wagon.

[Zachrulez]

Unvote, Vote: Wall-E

Go read his posts in isolation. Seriously.

He's a walking contradiction.

[Zachrulez]

Unvote: Vote: Stephoscope

After reading the exchange between these two, if either of them is scum I think Steph is the one.

I noticed you didn't respond to my point that you've tried to fool everyone into believing that my "soft vote" (as always, your words) was your main reason for voting for me. Why wouldn't you address that, Amished?

Why would Amished be trying to fool you into believing his motive was something it wasn't? I mean that, I can see him being scum and now having to defend his vote, but that doesn't change anything. Your point should be, "The way he is presenting himself is characteristic of someone who is being untruthful about their motive. Here is how and why: blah blah blah." The tone of Stephoscope's posts are not that of a person trying to improve the situation, but rather prove themselves right. Dr. Phil calls that right-fighting. You're behind your position no matter what. The bias nearly drips from her posts.

The tone of Stephoscope's posts? Remember this?

I said Steph was town as a joke. She was explaining my thought-process for me rather than waiting for me to say it, so I dubbed her Town for helping to keep my ass out of the fire. Yes, that's right. Amished helps me, I call him scum. Steph helps me, I call her town. The difference is one of tone and gut interpretation on my own part. If you want a further explaination I'll happily give one.

Zachrules: What was the point of 157?

Amished: I almost had you there.

So I guess you now call Stephoscope scum with the same tone you earlier declared him town and Amished scum.

Very strange and certainly very inconsistent.

[ryan2754]

I unvoted Wall-E because I no longer find him the scummiest individual worthy of a lynch (unlike you). Sure, I still find him scummy, but not to the point where holding a vote on him is beneficiary for the town. The vote is something extremely useful, and I don't like to have it on someone unless I feel they are completely worthy of it. At this point in the game, I don't feel Wall-E is COMPLETELY worthy of it.

[Wall-E]

i

have

been intentionally scummy in this game: in the beginning, i started a random fight on almost no pretext and alluded to the alignment of two players, who then argued quite vehemently for our entertainment. from that, i've gained some knowledge, and while it isn't knowledge i will share for no reason other than to save my own worthless neck, it is still helpful to me and my deduction of the thread

if anyone finds the thread to be derailed by my comments, please say so and re-rail it with your own helpfulness

if you want to vote for me for being scummy, please do. i cannot and will not raise a stink

i got off amished's wagon because of the way he's defended himself in the face of the pressure against him

you can draw your own conclusions about amished's posts in this game, but i'm off his trail for this game-day

stephoscope's most recent post is dismissive of my point almost to an evasive level

post 229 is enough evidence for me to keep my vote there for now

[Wall-E]

Zach:

Where have I called you scum?

I'm going to

Vote: Zachrules

. This is a serious vote. He tried to give a serious random vote, and it felt forced.

Right there.

I mean, that's what our votes are for.

Who's backpedaling now?

The point of the vote was to call attention to my reason. It worked. Stop OMGUSing.

[X]

Vote Count

Stephoscope

: (3) Amished, Pitstop, Wall-E

Amished

: (2) AshKetchummm, Stephoscope

Wall-E

: (2) lordzoner, Zachrulez

Zachrulez

: (1) Debonair Danny DiPietro

Not Voting

: (4) alexhans, Jazzmyn, Gateway, ryan2754

Vote Threshold

: 7

Happiness with Posting Level

:

Satisified

[ryan2754]

I really can't avoid Wall-E's posts anymore. I tried to look at the greater scheme, but rereading his posts they are just downright awful.

Vote: Wall-E

[Gateway]

Right after I posted about not being sure, Wall-E changes my mind. A defenseless townie is a good sacrifice on day one while scum hunting, from what I understand when reading about mafia.

Vote: Wall-E

[Jazzmyn]

I really can't avoid Wall-E's posts anymore.

Why were you avoiding them in the first place?

Regards,
Jazz

[ryan2754]

Avoid is probably a poor word choice. Giving him the benefit of the doubt is probably a better phrase for it.

[X]

Vote Count

Wall-E

: (4) Gateway, lordzoner, ryan2754, Zachrulez

Stephoscope

: (3) Amished, Pitstop, Wall-E

Amished

: (2) AshKetchummm, Stephoscope

Zachrulez

: (1) Debonair Danny DiPietro

Not Voting

: (2) alexhans, Jazzmyn

Vote Threshold

: 7

Happiness with Posting Level

:

Satisified

Prodding Pitstop.

[Stephoscope]

Right after I posted about not being sure, Wall-E changes my mind. A defenseless townie is a good sacrifice on day one while scum hunting, from what I understand when reading about mafia.

Vote: Wall-E

Can you clarify what you mean by this? Are you saying you think Wall-E is town?

[Amished]

Sorry for the weekend absence, just had some stuff come up and visiting relatives etc.. Anyways, back to the game.

@Jazz: Thanks again for replacing and being active

@ryan: What exactly did you think was weak reasoning, or something that you saw that was suspicious? If people are attacked, I expect them to defend. If they see something, I expect them to attack. What about it would you have "attacked" if given the opportunity?

@gateway: What facts do you glean from the posts so far? It appears that you admit to waiting til the rest of the town decides to lynch somebody and then having a NK to go on? Why not start now, as scum will be trying to act the same as everybody else, and speculating about the first NK I've read leads to serious WIFOM, and doesn't really base itself on much for facts. You don't have to outplay anybody, just playing is generally good enough.

@Wall-E: I can barely make sense of what you're thinking anymore. I can't tell who you really think is scummy other than the person you're voting for, and to admit that you've been intentionally acting scummy just shows to me that you have extremely poor reasoning. If you act scummy, wouldn't you expect everyone to call you on it, and not just scum? How is that beneficiary to the town? Besides, *if* you're town, you're wasting our day phase by focusing on somebody who acts scummy but isn't. I hope you either shape up or something cause in the off chance that you are town you're making it extremely difficult on us.

@Steph: Surely even if you're town, you can admit that you're wrong at some points? I know I'm not perfect so if I say something I didn't mean, I take it back. Also, I'm glad you felt it was an unexpected attack, as I feel that generally produces the true-er reactions in people.

@ryan: What is holding you back on a Wall-E vote if you're so suspicious of him? If you don't think he's worth it, there's some town tells or something that you've seen that obviously several of us haven't. Care to share?

One (almost) final thing, mainly @Jazzmyn; As I've either replaced in or started .... 5 games? So far, I've survived 1 out of 4 or 5 night phases. Overall I guess it's because I'm .. not acting suspicious enough? or something like that. So I'm trying to adjust my gameplay so as to hopefully stay around and help the town more by being active and not having people flake out in later stages.

Mod: If LordZoner doesn't post by tonight (he said in his last post that he'd update by yesterday), care to prod him?

X:

Actually, lordzoner's trying to figure out whether he has enough time to devote to the game. He told me he'll decide by tonight.

Finally (for real this time) I second Stephoscope's question in 243.

[Stephoscope]

@Steph: Surely even if you're town, you can admit that you're wrong at some points? I know I'm not perfect so if I say something I didn't mean, I take it back. Also, I'm glad you felt it was an unexpected attack, as I feel that generally produces the true-er reactions in people.

I like to think I can admit when I'm wrong; you'll notice I did so to some extent in the middle of 214 in regards to the "forced to = having to" issue. But I think my overall reaction has been understandable, regardless of what Wall-E or Dr. Phil think about it. Now that I am calmed down (for now ) I will give the entire thread including our exchange a re-read soon.

[Gateway]

I wish I could give a larger reply Amished, but as I said before. I don't claim to know any facts on day one. How do I know how well someone play's scum, I can't claim to know a single fact until day two when we have the previous two deaths to work on so I can start rereading posts based around those two deaths.

At this point, I just read and make a vote at who is scummiest, day one isn't a strong suit for me. I need facts.

[lordzoner]

I've assessed my schedule, and I've decided that I won't be able to continue in this game. I've been totally swamped with school and music and projects lately, and will most certainly find little time to contribute here. I'm sorry, but I'm out.

Also, happy birthday, alexhans.

[X]

Vote Count

Wall-E

: (4) Gateway,

lordzoner

, ryan2754, Zachrulez

Stephoscope

: (3) Amished, Pitstop, Wall-E

Amished

: (2) AshKetchummm, Stephoscope

Zachrulez

: (1) Debonair Danny DiPietro

Not Voting

: (2) alexhans, Jazzmyn

Vote Threshold

: 7

Happiness with Posting Level

:

Neutral

Commencing replacement search for lordzoner.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Well just because I thought zachrulez was scum doesn't mean I didn't stop thinking Wall-E was scum. Let's see where this action and topic take us.

Unvote

Vote: Wall-E

L-2