War in Heaven II - Spirit of Vengeance (Over!)

[q21]

What? I don't post content and it's suspicious, I post content and it's suspicious?

Could it be your suggestion that we kill a townie along with a scumbag?

He dodged that question from me too.

[DrippingGoofball]

dgb can we plz hurt weyouns?

Since my action on Kinetic didn't count, I am fully charged.

I find it hard to ignore the bizarre episode that is Firestarter's most recent post, though.

[DrippingGoofball]

No. I want us to hurt two people who we think might both be scum, but not together. A couple you would say, 'if one is scum, the other isn't; and vice versa'. Off course, it'd have to be a collaborative effort, and people who are more leaning towards one of them would hurt that one, and others the second.

Ugh??? I understand how it 'works' especially the part how it kills more townies.

[q21]

Wait you want us to hurt someone we don't think is scum?

WLC.
Please answer this with respect to your proposed plan.
kthxbai.

No. I want us to hurt two people who we think might both be scum, but not together. A couple you would say, 'if one is scum, the other isn't; and vice versa'. Off course, it'd have to be a collaborative effort, and people who are more leaning towards one of them would hurt that one, and others the second.

So that if we do kill a scum there's also a townie right there to go down with them. Right?

[DrippingGoofball]

So that if we do kill a scum there's also a townie right there to go down with them. Right?

He gets ONE chance to explain how his system doesn't kill more townies. For laughs and giggles. Then I hurt him. I'm going to see a movie tonight, might have to wait until I return.

[DrippingGoofball]

I just saw ViqLES reading the thread, and failing to report whether he has a results. MMmmmMmmmmm....

[Albert B. Rampage]

I just saw ViqLES reading the thread, and failing to report whether he has a results. MMmmmMmmmmm....

He's been reading the thread all day.

[Firestarter]

firestarter - I hear you, but for a fakevote system to work it needs EVERYONE to be on board. Chances of that are what exactly?

We dont need everyone, just town.

DGB, Ive politely requested everyone vote on a system.

Its not hard, I promise.

[q21]

firestarter - I hear you, but for a fakevote system to work it needs EVERYONE to be on board. Chances of that are what exactly?

We dont need everyone, just town.

DGB, Ive politely requested everyone vote on a system.

Its not hard, I promise.

Sorry, correction.

It needs EVERY TOWNIE to be on board. Chances of that are what exactly?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Fonz, rolf and Xyl

WHATS SO FUCKING WRONG WITH TREATING THIS GAME AS NORMAL GAME WITH VOTING INSTEAD OF HURTING?

We dont random hurt anyone that could be town and we dont start healing him when its too late and you realize, omg he could be town.

FUCK YOU TAJO.

No-one is proposing random hurting. AT ALL. EVER. This is a gigantic strawman. I at least, am proposing to harm people you would normally wagon, once you have established there is some support for the wagon.

You want to know what the stupidly obvious problem with your plan is? Deadlines. Or the lack thereof. Normally, if people aren't around to hammer, then the deadline cuts off. So either you've got a reduced lynch, or at the very least a set time people have to vote by to get it.

Now, check out your plan. The problem is that hanging around one more day is only one more day. Which is an incentive against wagon consolidation. A deadlocked town could pretty much hang around forever, with everyone hoping the other side'll shift, and not them, and no firm deadline to force anyone's hand. The frog/saucepan problem. Your plan is a recipe for paralysis.

If we're only hurting when there is a consensus, why would we need a 'healing phase' at all?

Can we at least agree that this 'I heal you, you lynch me' is antitown and scum-favouring?

Also, for the last time, as with a normal game, IF SCUM WANT TO QUICKLYNCH/HURT, THEN IT'S GOING TO BE FUCKING OBVIOUS! The problem is if everyone is whittled down to the point when scum can deploy a load of rage at once, and lots of people are in range. This can be mollified by a) reducing the amount of rage available by acting quickly and b) only hurting people who are the suspects of multiple people, as above.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Guys, have you looked at our track record lately? 5 kills, of which only 1 is scum. I think with my plan there's a high probability to hit scum. Offering 1 possible townie to catch 1 scum is okay in my opinion.

What I really fear that if we keep killing people by concensus one by one, it will be scum really controlling the kills. I know it'd hurt to lose another townie, but the way we're going now isn't getting us anywhere.

@Firestarter: please don't bring the voting system back, it was hard enough to let tajo drop it. It turned out it wouldn't work here, although it's a good idea. It doesn't have enough supporters, let it rest.

@ DGB, at the moment my top 5 scum would rate:

1) ABR
2) rofl
3) tajo
4) Fonz
5) Firestarter

[Xylthixlm]

WLC: Please expand your scumlist to include all players

[Albert B. Rampage]

Xyl, post 2040

[Xylthixlm]

Xyl, post 2040

Still thinking.

[Firestarter]

1.

Guys, have you looked at our track record lately? 5 kills, of which only 1 is scum. I think with my plan there's a high probability to hit scum. Offering 1 possible townie to catch 1 scum is okay in my opinion.

2.

What I really fear that if we keep killing people by concensus one by one, it will be scum really controlling the kills. I know it'd hurt to lose another townie, but the way we're going now isn't getting us anywhere.

3.

@Firestarter: please don't bring the voting system back, it was hard enough to let tajo drop it. It turned out it wouldn't work here, although it's a good idea. It doesn't have enough supporters, let it rest.

4.

@ DGB, at the moment my top 5 scum would rate:

1) ABR
2) rofl
3) tajo
4) Fonz
5) Firestarter

1. Funnily enough, the first plan used was the most succesful. The 2nd plan is currently town destructive.

2. The current plan is NOT done with general concensus.

3. The voting plan did work. Used once, caught scum.

4. Reasons as to why Im on your list please?

5. Did you read my inital post about reintroducing the fake votecount?
What are your thoughts on the various "events" I listed that are more likely to happen with the current buddy plan?
___________________________________________________________

@ Q21.. I take it then, your not in favour of the fake votecount. Yay or nay?

@ ABR... I take it thats a no then.
Please outline, in your own words, why the current plan is better given the reasons why I dislike it.

@ DGB... Please explain why my first post this evening (Where I am) is "Bizarre"?

Everyone Else

Please choose a system.

[Xylthixlm]

The voting plan was never really used.

The only problem with the current system is too many people are going off and hurting anyone they want without significant support. Get at least 4 or 5 people before you start hurting.

[vIQleS]

Where the hell did Viq go?

Sorry - i'm trying to read last nights backlog. I am playing and i'll post some ideas as soon as i can...

Each player will be rated as such: ObvTown, MostlyTown, Neutral, NotTown, ProbScum

Albert B. Rampage - Netrual

I thought he was scum a while back but his exchange with Kinetic don't read scummy to be. However, he has been passive and manipulative but anything scum tells have been countered by town tells. So not scum. Yet.

Firestarter(replaced Drench) - Neutral

Not enough of a read yet. Drench was lurky and scummy but Firestarter has been solid so far. Finish reread please.

DrippingGoofball - MostlyTown

Nothing scummy happening here and has presented solid reasoning most of the game. DGB is just being DGB.

Giuseppe - Neutral

Lurked most of the game but has returned with some solid content lately. No read yet.

Kinetic - MostlyTown

Some early game scuffles made him look scummy but not scummy enough to warrant the wonton attacking by rofl and others. Major ego.

Nuwen - MostlyTown

A premature hammer puts a damper on the outstanding towniness of this player. Not sure what to make of Walt hammer but player has been solid town besides that.

populartajo - ObvTown

Tajo is Tajo and is not scum. Though he was kinda...yeah...earlier in the game, his intentions are definitely town.

q21 - NotTown

I thought he might have been town early on but he's been tunneling on zwet like nuts. Going for a policy lynch?

roflcopter - NotTown

Erratic play and non-consensus hurting. Walt flip does NOT look good.

Seraphim - ObvTown

Obviously town.

Tenchi - Neutral

Lurker back from the dead. More content, please?

The Fonz - ObvTown

Probably the towniest player all game. Very calculated, very logical, lacking huge ego. Easily towniest player in the game.

vIQleS - NotTown

Has been towing the line between scum and town all game. Claimed Ophan which is interesting. Most likely to be scum Ophan if there is one.

WeyounsLastClone(replaced Cybele) - ProbScum

Not sure if anyone has noticed his lackluster contribution and how he's jumped onto almost every wagon since he replaced in. His predecessor lurked. I'm looking for some support on this one.

Xylthixlm - ProbTown

Still no scum read but aren't you supposed to be more aggressive?

zwetschenwasser - Neutral

Zwet is zwet.

I'd just like to reiterate here that a good player <> town.

In fact at this point i'm thinking that there's some very good players in the scum team.

Kinetic, Loyal Cherub, was cast out of Heaven.

Damnit. This is getting ridiculous - see comment above.

OTOH - Every town we kill means the odds of us hitting scum the next time go up.

We just can't let the game get any more unbalanced. We are dangerously close to scum having too much power.

I'm betting next lynch will be scum.

I want to know if any Ophanim saw anything before hurting.

I've been watching nuwen. i haven't had any messages back yet, so until the end of my watching period, i'll go ahead and say that nuwen wasn't involved in the rage attack on kinetic.

[vIQleS]

OH - and i think we should try the voting idea again - although with some provisos based on the objections stated.

I think it needs to be as fast as poss, so that it doesn't drag on for days...

Majority has to be considered at this point - how many scum do we have? 4?

I'm guessing that 50% isn't going to happen - so we'll have to pick a number that's fast enough to not let scum build up points, but doesn't allow scum to dominate.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Very simple, Firestarter. The voting system will result in a deadlock with equal players on each side.

The benefits of the current plan are:

1) it stops us from being in complete anarchy
2) it is easily enforceable (no need to wait for vote counts, no need to wait for every player to weigh in)
3) any abuse in the system can be spotted and dealt with
4) it keeps the game moving without the fallen accumulating too much rage

Given the lurkers / people without strong opinions, it would be too hard to establish a majority of players agreeing, and it would take too long.

Also, discussing a change of plan at this point sidetracks us from catching scum and stalls the game, which is what we want to avoid at all cost as I just mentioned.

[Xylthixlm]

What? I don't post content and it's suspicious, I post content and it's suspicious?

Could it be your suggestion that we kill a townie along with a scumbag?

I like how his first reaction was over whether his post was suspicious.

Hurt: WeyounsLastClone

Some flavor text mentioning a hammer. SQUEAK!

[Firestarter]

Very simple, Firestarter. The voting system will result in a deadlock with equal players on each side.

The benefits of the current plan are:

1) it stops us from being in complete anarchy
2) it is easily enforceable (no need to wait for vote counts, no need to wait for every player to weigh in)
3) any abuse in the system can be spotted and dealt with
4) it keeps the game moving without the fallen accumulating too much rage

Given the lurkers / people without strong opinions, it would be too hard to establish a majority of players agreeing, and it would take too long.

Also, discussing a change of plan at this point sidetracks us from catching scum and stalls the game, which is what we want to avoid at all cost as I just mentioned.

I understand the points you make.

But this current plan is not ideal at all.

Lurkers will remain lurkers until outed/dead. They will not have much input into whatever plan is utilised unless they are lurker scum, and jump on opportunisticly, again, if a good case is presented on a poor town player, this can be easily overlooked.

I would like to see a change, at the very least, in the current method being used.

I propose that 3 players need to be on any mini wagon for Hurt to happen.
The active players in this game, are likely not all town, and if scum has a strong opinion, they can jump onto whatever mini wagon suits them.

With another player needed to agree on any case, its harder for scum to influence, and in the event that a townie is lynched, its easier to spot the common denominator.

We do need to change the system, albeit not as drastically as I first proposed.

Can I get concensus on this at least?

And again, we're only 10 days in.

[vIQleS]

Very simple, Firestarter. The voting system will result in a deadlock with equal players on each side.

The benefits of the current plan are:

1) it stops us from being in complete anarchy
2) it is easily enforceable (no need to wait for vote counts, no need to wait for every player to weigh in)
3) any abuse in the system can be spotted and dealt with
4) it keeps the game moving without the fallen accumulating too much rage

Given the lurkers / people without strong opinions, it would be too hard to establish a majority of players agreeing, and it would take too long.

Also, discussing a change of plan at this point sidetracks us from catching scum and stalls the game, which is what we want to avoid at all cost as I just mentioned.

And so far - it's not working.

I don't know what we can do at this point - no one seems to want to cooperate with anything

[Xylthixlm]

I propose that 3 players need to be on any mini wagon for Hurt to happen.

I support this idea.

[Seraphim]

I propose that 3 players need to be on any mini wagon for Hurt to happen.

I support this idea.

[Seraphim]

Seeing as Xyl, ABR, and myself are on the wagon...

Hurt: WeyounsLastClone

Firestarter just jumped up the town list.