War in Heaven II - Spirit of Vengeance (Over!)

[Xylthixlm]

Where the hell did Viq go?

[Seraphim]

Where the hell did Viq go?

[Xylthixlm]

Hey Seraphim.

I noticed that you've been on every dead player so far. Any reason for that?

[Seraphim]

That's a lie, my friend. If I recall correctly, I never hurt Juls because my hurt on her never counted. Or do you mean I had intent to hurt every dead player?

[Xylthixlm]

WeyounsLastClone has barely posted, but managed to be on both the Hoopla and WaltWishbone wagons. Cybele before him was also a lurker. Likely lurker-scum.

[Xylthixlm]

That's a lie, my friend. If I recall correctly, I never hurt Juls because my hurt on her never counted. Or do you mean I had intent to hurt every dead player?

Er, right.

[Seraphim]

Every dead player has acted scummy so far. I want to use my hurts and heals wisely and with backing from other players. So, when it's clear that there is a large amount of town consensus of a scummy player or I think the paticular player is scummy, I will go after them.

[Kinetic]

Every dead player has acted scummy so far. I want to use my hurts and heals wisely and with backing from other players. So, when it's clear that there is a large amount of town consensus of a scummy player or I think the paticular player is scummy, I will go after them.

That sounds INCREDIBLY scummy.

Are you normally this complacent and unable to form a unique opinion?

[Seraphim]

In a game with this many conflicting egos? Yes.

[roflcopter]

see guys? y'all should have been with me from the beginning on realizing seraphim is scum. even xyl has realized its no longer a good idea to mindlessly support him. probably because xyl knows his number is up and he's gonna be dead soon.

[Seraphim]

And when I flip town, I'll laughing my ass off while Rofl's credibility is shot.

[The Fonz]

@Again- if a significant faction want someone dead, they die eventually. If you want to survive, what you need to do is rally support for killing roflcopter. Having your supporters heal you whilst Rofl etc kill you WILL JUST STALL THE GAME WHILST RAGE ACCUMULATES. For like the zillionth time.

That my plan is scum-favoring is the biggest pile of horseshit i've ever heard. Your plan was scum-favoring.

Both plans could potentially favor scum.

Your plan is more likely to cause a significant portion of the town to be hurt at the same time which I fear is a MUCH bigger threat to town because each rage point has more impact.

The conserve hurts and concentrate fire plan has the potential to take a little time, thus allowing a few more rage points to accumulate, however each rage point is reduced in power since in order to kill someone a larger amount of them would be needed to kill.

Except that my plan calls for concentrating fire. Just not to the extent that no-one ever gets hurt unless a majority of the town agree.

Thus, I've been sort of Angling for something a little middle of the road:

Concentrate fire, so we don't have a large amount of the town low, through a consensus, but not take a long time to decide this.

Cool. And I'd like to hurt scum, but I don't want them to hurt town.

By which i mean- the whole thing depends on what you mean by 'consensus' and 'not take a long time.' If by consensus, you mean 'more than half the town want to hurt the same player' then I'm sorry, but it's just not possible to get that without it taking a long time. A two-week day is fast by the standards of mafiascum large games. But we really need to be killing every 3-4 days.

If you try to get round this by setting four-day deadlines, you're going to have plurality lynches. But then you have the top wagon at maybe five supporters, and a couple of others at three or four. Many of whom perhaps feel that the person targeted by the five-man wagon is obvtown, and those on it scum.

Are Rofl and ABR considered a "significant faction" all of a sudden? Plus, I'm not convinced that they are scum just yet. The problem with this game is that votes cannot be moved very fast and are effectively permanent in some ways.

Well, if there's only two of them, then it will take a long time to kill someone.

Healing is a useful mechanic and it should be used in certain cases. When someone that a LARGE MAJORITY of the town feel is town is low in health (Hell, like Walt), healing is a good thing so they cannot be sniped.

Well, with Walt, he seemed SO obvtown... but if we were going to heal, we should have masshealed. As I said, one or two heals wouldn't stop the scum ragekilling him quickly. But yes, if information comes up such that a player seems obvtown, and a majority of the town agree, healing can be done. If we kill a scum, it might well make sense to heal all damage done by that scum while we heal. But so long as a player is controversial, with multiple people on either side, healing just stalls the game.

Ummm, no. Right now I'm in range to be killed by VERY few rage points. I'd like a few heals so that I could at least be above that range. Seeing as I can be killed a lot faster than I can be healed, I don't think its an inappropriate request.

But no. Because, again, there are people who think you are scum and want you dead. If scum want to rage-kill you, then they're eliminating a top town suspect for us. That's the point you seem to not be considering- anyone hurt enough to be in range of rage kills is either a suspect of enough people, or has one or two people absolutely convinced they're scum.

Hmmm... re-read shows one actually-significant thing done by q21 is hurting zwet. Rethink.

May I take this as one of the two sanctions I want to hurt zwet again?

Of course not? It looks like nothing of the sort. It's merely pointing out that whilst Zwet looks like the scummiest of the ophanim, and you look like one of my very highest suspects, your attack on him DOES NOT look like a bus, and therefore any theory which involves you both being scum therefore needs a rethink.

May I take this as one of the two sanctions I want to hurt zwet again?

I'm against hurting zwet.

So, one for, one against? I'll wait until it gets to two more for than against.

Trying to decide what exactly a Juls-town flip tells us. The answer I believe is, well, nothing. Except that she honestly did think ABR as the towniest player.

That her wagon was just as bad as a certain character from a sitcom set in the 50s said it was.

Kinetic, it's hugely unlikely that you'll be healed enough, unless there's a coalition of players in favor of it. I certainly would could myself as part of this coalition.

Any volunteers?

I just need a couple of heals to get out of danger of a rage dump. Right now given even conservative estimates I can be killed by a rage dump.

Rage dumps are going to kill

someone.

I'm hurting ABR or Kinetic later today.

Who's your support for this hurt?

You're already injured, he doesn't need it. The entire wagon thus far is support.

Did you not see his fabricated argument with ABR?

I'd agree with you if the arguments with ABR was a binary contest between Kinetic and ABR. Kinetic seems very nervous that the SCUM will kill him, and that seems genuine and not fake at all.

I really don't know about this. I mean, if scum were really minded to use rage points to get rid of Kinetic, they could've by now.

Sleeping on it helps.

So... ABR's reaction was

WHAM

OMGUS, with some ad hom thrown in. Since then he's covered it okay, but it's pretty obvious that his skin is more important to him than scumhunting. Looks scummy to me. Anyone have a meta on ABR? Some people have mentioned he plays like this as scum, how does he play as town?

Erratic. ABR was Zwet before Zwet was.

Also: Xyl has started lurkerhunting again precisely as soon as Rofl called him out for not doing such. Having claimed to have 'run out of lurkers.' (I don't know why he put a sad face there. A no-lurk game is what we want).

[roflcopter]

fonz, help me kill xyl, will you?

[Xylthixlm]

The lurkers I'd been gunning for early on were Juls (who had just died) and Walt (who started talking, then died). Later I went for Drench (who got replaced). So all the lurkers I'd been going for up until then were gone. roflcopter reminded me that I could go out and look for more lurkers, so I did.

[The Fonz]

No. Juls was not a lurker. You can say she didn't give opinions of her own, but she was posting, and hurting.

[roflcopter]

town xyl would never need a reminder to go after lurkers, ever

not ever

[Xylthixlm]

No. Juls was not a lurker. You can say she didn't give opinions of her own, but she was posting, and hurting.

I didn't see much in the way of opinions on who was scum. In my book that's active lurking.

[The Fonz]

fonz, help me kill xyl, will you?

I'll hurt Seraphim with you, if you like. Picking out scummy things he's said:

@Xyl

Juls and WaltWishbone are lurking, correct?

I also think it's important to sort out the lurkers from the scummy lurkers. Generally, scum lurkers will either say less or pretend that they're saying something when they're not.

ABR:

1. Why did you switch your attack so quickly?

2. Why is Shinnen scum?

Then defends Xyl, attacks Zwet, claims not to see the Shinnen case.

Heals Xyl.

I could support a Hoopla hurt if someone could point out the case to me. I don't fully understand it.

Another dead town.

Alright.

In this game, I quickly notice three groups emerging. There's the attackers, who want a fast game with quick hurts and fast kills, the healers who want full town consensus before making decisions and lots of healing, and the middlers who want fast kills but want at least some town consensus before attacking.

I think the scum are most likely to be the people with no opinion or who constantly jump opinions in order to fit whichever of these groups currently has the sweep of the board. At the beginning of the game, the aggressive players managed to grip the town by pointing out rage points and how quick deaths are best for the town. Then the healers took control of the board again by claiming that organized hurting/healing is best for the town. Right now, the aggressive players have control again, as evident by all the hurting going around right now.

Looking back, Hoopla seems to switch between the two extremes. At first, she was one of the first people to drop a hurt...and then proceeding to become one of Tajo's largest endorsers. Her constant switching of sides, not to mention healing players for no reason, does not seem town at all.

At the moment, I still want to heal Xyl tomorrow so that scum do not kill him. After that, I will continue to hurt zwet until he is dead and then start on Hoopla or Juls. Juls will immediately elevate if zwet flips scum as the town of them have been buddying against Xyl the entire game.

Continues Hoopla persecution, and Xyl healing.

Then the Shinnen hurt seems to come absolutely out of nowhere.

I've got Seraph as scum, with Xyl as a likely buddy. But i think the Seraph case is stronger in isolation.

[roflcopter]

well i've been saying that for a long time, and i even pointed out most of those posts of his a long long time ago, but yes absolutely i'll start hurting seraphim at 11 oclock tonight

[Seraphim]

Hmmm. Uh oh. An actual case on me. Looks like my poor play has finally surfaced and someone that isn't rofl is posting a case. Since I'll be dead soon, I'm free to answer any questions about any player at any time.

[Xylthixlm]

town xyl would never need a reminder to go after lurkers, ever

not ever

I think I've figured out roflcopter's meta on me

[DrippingGoofball]

No. Juls was not a lurker. You can say she didn't give opinions of her own, but she was posting, and hurting.

She was Kuato'ing ABR 100%, then read 7 pages and decided to hurt Tenchi. Just summin' up her performance.

[roflcopter]

town xyl would also not be this passive

[Albert B. Rampage]

Xyl, thoughts on the Seraphim hurt tonight?

[DrippingGoofball]

Hmmm. Uh oh. An actual case on me. Looks like my poor play has finally surfaced and someone that isn't rofl is posting a case. Since I'll be dead soon, I'm free to answer any questions about any player at any time.

Give us as scum vs. town list please.