War in Heaven II - Spirit of Vengeance (Over!)

[Xylthixlm]

At ABR and TheFonz: what do you think of Walt? Seems today you guys kept more quite than usual.

@tajo: why exactly should we leave Walt alive? He claims at a strange time, he makes an awkward series of posts where he goes into the number of scum and then says he disappears for one and a half day in which he (logically) assumes to be eliminated.

Oh yeah, WLC asked it.

Im going to assume the worst case scenario. Walt is scum.

Imagine a normal game. 3 scum, 8 town, 1 SK.
We are in D2, there has been 2 kills and WaltSK is pressured to claim at L-1. The case is weak but the players pushing his lynch are vocal and aggressive. He finally claims vig.
What does the town do?
Agressive route: lynch him.
Non-agressive route: we control his kill that night, take advantage of it killing a scummy player, and we lynch him tomorrow.

I know the situations arent the same but we can optimize the use of Walt even if he is scum. There are advantages and disadvantages in each of the routes we could take but you all know that we can take care of the probable SK with only 1 HURT in this game.

No need to explain the downside of hurting Walt right now if he is town.

Tajo... the "chain the scum and use them" strategy only works on an

SK

, because they will lose if they die. It doesn't work on mafia, not even in a regular game.

[populartajo]

In the other two games this didnt happen.
So No.

I don't know why you are so definate.

It might be unlikely, but I can see how it could happen. (Mr Flay did mention the possibility of different roles at the end of the last game...

There has been 2 games of WIH before. Both games were extremely similar. There is nothing that indicates that this game should be different.
Following your logic, we might as well discard rage points too...

[Seraphim]

I think he's saying that there may be more town roles than the last game. And I'm not sure why that is such a stretch to imagine.

[populartajo]

@tajo, if Walt's scum, why leave him alive to let him gain rage points? why are you specifically mentioning sunday? (I highly doubt you would be that obvious if you're scum)

According to the graphic I just posted (!) the last game scum got rage points in every Sunday.
Do you think Walt is scum?

[populartajo]

I think he's saying that there may be more town roles than the last game. And I'm not sure why that is such a stretch to imagine.

Please check the first page of the game. Flay is not Tar.

[populartajo]

At ABR and TheFonz: what do you think of Walt? Seems today you guys kept more quite than usual.

@tajo: why exactly should we leave Walt alive? He claims at a strange time, he makes an awkward series of posts where he goes into the number of scum and then says he disappears for one and a half day in which he (logically) assumes to be eliminated.

Oh yeah, WLC asked it.

Im going to assume the worst case scenario. Walt is scum.

Imagine a normal game. 3 scum, 8 town, 1 SK.
We are in D2, there has been 2 kills and WaltSK is pressured to claim at L-1. The case is weak but the players pushing his lynch are vocal and aggressive. He finally claims vig.
What does the town do?
Agressive route: lynch him.
Non-agressive route: we control his kill that night, take advantage of it killing a scummy player, and we lynch him tomorrow.

I know the situations arent the same but we can optimize the use of Walt even if he is scum. There are advantages and disadvantages in each of the routes we could take but you all know that we can take care of the probable SK with only 1 HURT in this game.

No need to explain the downside of hurting Walt right now if he is town.

Tajo... the "chain the scum and use them" strategy only works on an

SK

, because they will lose if they die. It doesn't work on mafia, not even in a regular game.

You are not geting the most important part. If Walt uses his rage points, meaning he is scum, we kill him.

[WeyounsLastClone]

@tajo, if Walt's scum, why leave him alive to let him gain rage points? why are you specifically mentioning sunday? (I highly doubt you would be that obvious if you're scum)

According to the graphic I just posted (!) the last game scum got rage points in every Sunday.
Do you think Walt is scum?

No, I think Walt is town, that's why I hurt him yesterday, and arguing against him now..

And why exactly do you want to keep Walt alive especially until Sunday to gain a rage point? From my perspective that's a bad thing for town.

[Seraphim]

At ABR and TheFonz: what do you think of Walt? Seems today you guys kept more quite than usual.

@tajo: why exactly should we leave Walt alive? He claims at a strange time, he makes an awkward series of posts where he goes into the number of scum and then says he disappears for one and a half day in which he (logically) assumes to be eliminated.

Oh yeah, WLC asked it.

Im going to assume the worst case scenario. Walt is scum.

Imagine a normal game. 3 scum, 8 town, 1 SK.
We are in D2, there has been 2 kills and WaltSK is pressured to claim at L-1. The case is weak but the players pushing his lynch are vocal and aggressive. He finally claims vig.
What does the town do?
Agressive route: lynch him.
Non-agressive route: we control his kill that night, take advantage of it killing a scummy player, and we lynch him tomorrow.

I know the situations arent the same but we can optimize the use of Walt even if he is scum. There are advantages and disadvantages in each of the routes we could take but you all know that we can take care of the probable SK with only 1 HURT in this game.

No need to explain the downside of hurting Walt right now if he is town.

Tajo... the "chain the scum and use them" strategy only works on an

SK

, because they will lose if they die. It doesn't work on mafia, not even in a regular game.

You are not geting the most important part. If Walt uses his rage points, meaning he is scum, we kill him.

But this requires us to have an Ophan on him, all the time. And seeing as the possibility of scum Ophan exists, we can't trust any results they give us. There are too many problems that might arise and killing him is the best move right now.

[WeyounsLastClone]

Yeah, it's not like Walt is gonna tell us if/when he's going to use his rage point.

[populartajo]

@tajo, if Walt's scum, why leave him alive to let him gain rage points? why are you specifically mentioning sunday? (I highly doubt you would be that obvious if you're scum)

According to the graphic I just posted (!) the last game scum got rage points in every Sunday.
Do you think Walt is scum?

No, I think Walt is town, that's why I hurt him yesterday, and arguing against him now..

And why exactly do you want to keep Walt alive especially until Sunday to gain a rage point? From my perspective that's a bad thing for town.

And why do you think he is scum?
I said before Sunday, that means, before he gets a rage point if he is scum.

[Xylthixlm]

I think he's saying that there may be more town roles than the last game. And I'm not sure why that is such a stretch to imagine.

Please check the first page of the game. Flay is not Tar.

The second post says

What follows are some potential role PMs of loyal angels:

Not

What follows are all possible role PMs of loyal angels:

The difference is important.

[populartajo]

Xyl, we are assuming this game is similar to the both last games.
If we are not assuming that, then we might as well assume that there are no rage points in this game and that scum have other way to kill.
Also, talking about possible roles other than is retarded and doesnt have any importance.
About, Walt do what you want. Im wasting my time here. His case is weak.

[vIQleS]

I know the situations arent the same but we can optimize the use of Walt even if he is scum. There are advantages and disadvantages in each of the routes we could take but you all know that we can take care of the probable SK with only 1 HURT in this game.

No need to explain the downside of hurting Walt right now if he is town.

No - the best argument so far (assuming that a large number of people think that walt is scum) is to kill him to minimise rage power. no matter how useful he is, there's no way you can justify the potential harm he can cause with possibly 2 rage points (enough to tip the scales for an immediate kill)

We need to kill scum quickly

[zwetschenwasser]

Hurt: WaltWishbone

Too soon. Flay

That's my last hurt before I start watching...

[Seraphim]

If I'm correct, that's a kill.

[WaltWishbone]

Hurt: WaltWishbone

That's my last hurt before I start watching...

Just flying by for a quick one. I beleive that may be a kill.

...and so the answer you have all been waiing on.

*drumroll*

I am Town Seraph.

I am kinda suprised I lasted the day, however the way I went out completely shocks me. I thought I would be taken by rage points? I cant believe it's by votes? Especially xyl, no one can be that bad at this game. He has to be scum.

XYL had me killled, and he did it with NO case and everyone knows it. I would look in VIQ direction next, his hurt/help is absolutely out of place. My plan to keep my role hidden was so that if one of rofl or Nuwen flipped scum, we would still have two seraphim. I had planned to hold it secret until closer to end game. I still believe rofl and Nuwen are town and the numbers 3-1 sersphim are more likely. Anyways....

Good luck town!

[Albert B. Rampage]

Heal Fonz

[vIQleS]

I would look in VIQ direction next, his hurt/help is absolutely out of place.

What do you mean by "hurt/help"?

I've been advocating from the beginning, consensus hurting. I don't see the case against you but it doesn't make any sense to have multiple people at low health.

I'm going to keep hurting with consensus or attempt to create a consensus if I think someone deserves to die on my iPhone.

Right now I'm happy with some of the people that are in the queue. And I'll be hurting juls at about 1930 tonight (my time)

[WeyounsLastClone]

Heal: Xylthixlm

. Before we start hurting the ones already hurt now, I think we have to wait exactly how the Walt-thing turns out. I think scum was on the sideline with the whole Walt-wagon.

[WaltWishbone]

I am sure Mr. Flay will be by soon with official hurt/heal, so I will use this time to make a few more quick posts and observations.

I would look in VIQ direction next, his hurt/help is absolutely out of place.

What do you mean by "hurt/help"?

I've been advocating from the beginning, consensus hurting. I don't see the case against you but it doesn't make any sense to have multiple people at low health.

I'm going to keep hurting with consensus or attempt to create a consensus if I think someone deserves to die on my iPhone.

Right now I'm happy with some of the people that are in the queue. And I'll be hurting juls at about 1930 tonight (my time)

NO, hurt XYL first. He started trying to get people to hurt/help me after this post. He has the most or second most damage on him at this point not Juls. Several people told him he was wrong, yet he would not listen and has proved himself extremely scummy.

So I am not sure I have a complete understanding of the way this game works, however I am comfortable making a few early observations. I do not feel confident enough yet to make a vote or hurt/heal anyone.

My initial thoughts from reading the first six pages are; Cybele, Hoopla, and Kinetics opening posts came across as very honest and containend an element of truth which would indicate they had no idea what kind of Rage, ect abilities scum may have. Although, I do understand a couple of points made against Kinetic, I would have a hard time voting for him at this point. I think ABR has put in lot of detail into his research and subsequent reasoning behind his post however I want to go back and reread the first 6 pages (as well as the previous game) before elaborating.

I am a bit torn between two different stratagies, I do however agree with going with a majority. I am not sure whether it would be best to hold onto my hurt/heal until the rest of the players have a chance to check in and and add their thoughts or if I should return the favor and heal vIQleS? (thanks by the way )

One thing I am not clear about in the rules is how time works in this set-up? In otherwords, do we have 24 hours from Mr. Flay's post to hurt/heal someone 1 time? Tomorrow by 7am? Also if we dont use a hurt/heal does it carry over to the next 24 hour period?

I am gonna reread everything now and try to get a better handle on how this set-up works, thanks for any advice.

Read xyl in isolation, with every few posts he tries to get someone to hurt/help me. Then read his rolefishing exchange. Also, today if we are following your strategy of going with a consenus of hurt/heal, then he put me at L1.

It all adds up. He is scum.

...and just to clarify the Nuwen, rofl logic one more time. Lets say in a worse case scenario there are two Seraphim. Rofl and Nuwen both can not be scum, one is town.

[WaltWishbone]

EBWOP

*worst case scenario, two Seraphim scum. Rofl and Nuwen both can not be scum, one is town.

[Xylthixlm]

WaltWishbone: Have you even taken a close look at anyone but me this game? I'm not the only person on your wagon, I'm just the most vocal. Your main argument against me has always been that you're town and I'm attacking you so I must be scum, which is

complete

OMGUS; why not use the same logic for the people on the Hoopla wagon? Your other arguments are weak and you wouldn't even bother with them if I wasn't attacking you.

[populartajo]

I dont need Flay here to know that Walt is indeed town.
Fucking told you so.
Why exactly are we healing people again?

Hurt : Tenchi.

Die lurking scum die.

[populartajo]

Heal: Xylthixlm

. Before we start hurting the ones already hurt now, I think we have to wait exactly how the Walt-thing turns out. I think scum was on the sideline with the whole Walt-wagon.

You know, this kind of comments really pisses me off.
REALLY PISSES ME OFF.

[Firestarter]

Read up to P.29.

Suspicions>> WaltWishBone, Kinetic & vIQles.. in that order.

Most likely town >> Fonz, ABR, Q21, Rofl, Pop...

Unsure >> Xyl, Seraphim, DGB..

Other reads too faint to mention.

Will continue with the reading to take me up to the most present post tomorrow.
27 pages left to read

Goodnight...