War in Heaven II - Spirit of Vengeance (Over!)

[roflcopter]

so, i'm trying to remember what made me drop kinetic from the list of obvscums, but he's right back up there now with that ridiculous attempt to smear myself and nuwen. we are the closest things to confirmed this town has got.

this burst of people who are randomly being tied to shinnen for one reason or another smells rank with manipulation. can we just get back to killing hoopla and then seraphim?

also, fonz and albert, stop trying to take all the credit for the shinnen kill, some of that shit is mine.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I don't care that both Fonz and copter don't want anything to do with a DGB bandwagon. I will find my support elsewhere.

Call Intent to hurt DGB

She was the main detractor from the Shinnen lynch, and its about time for you to see it.

[Albert B. Rampage]

also, fonz and albert, stop trying to take all the credit for the shinnen kill, some of that shit is mine.

I didn't take credit

anywhere

, and roflcopter, make yourself scarce as I lynch DGB without your consent.

[roflcopter]

eh, its not totally without my consent, i'm just not gonna help as i have more important things to do with my fury. i see where you're coming from though. and i guess that was fonz who took the credit for both of you, my bad. but yes i'll keep score

[The Fonz]

Rofl: I attacked her first, and without wavering. It was I who pointed out the reasons why she was scum. I don't think it's wrong to say that i deserve a substantial portion of the credit. (You hurt Hoopla first, and went on to say you'd hurt whichever was closer to death- you only really went for Shinnen after she hurt you).

[roflcopter]

going through shinnen's posts for hints

I don't see any need to subvert the hurt/heal mechanism. Just try to concentrate your fire on people who are already hurt, rather than wearing everyone down at once. That will make it harder for scum to suddenly kill townies using secret damage.

Err... Wouldn't that help the scum? I mean, if we concentrate the fire on only one player, scum will surely take advantage of that. I don't know, that you suggest is really suspicious.

FoS: Xylthixlm

(what a complicated username...)

say look, scum didn't like xyl's plan at all. xyl is not scum.

How can you be so sure? That's a pretty solid number, you know. The only way you would know that is that you know how much scum there are, hence, you must be a scum as well.

FoS: vIQ

i would lay a lot on the line betting that since shinnen was the first one to go after viq for the absolutely horseshit 75% thing, that makes viq town.

Heal: Seraphim.

Heal me back!

Heal: Shinnen_no_Me

Alright, 24 hours until my next action.

look at how cute they are

Obviously? Maybe for you, but not for me. You and those four players can as well be scum buddies trying to pass as townies together. In fact, the way that you speak so sure about their alignment makes me think that at least you are scum. Any player who let the game be ruled by a minority of "selected" player obviously wants the town to lose. Discussion in mafia games has a purpose, you know? And that's preventing scum like you trick town with your so-called-obviously-fake pro-town strategy.

Vote: Rolf

see everybody? the scum

were

scared of me and my brute squad, and i bet its because the people i named were all or almost all town. scum seriously shit themselves when town start getting convictions about other town being town. it works every time.

Convenient, isn't it? Rofl with his aggressive way of playing will just make the town lose. If the town major weapon is discussion, how come he just want to throw it away by saying who are scum and who is sure town? And you don't find that suspicious? And you say that my arguments are bollocks?

Rofl believes he's god, and that he can say with 100% sure accuracy the alignment of other players. What does that mean? From a themed point of view, he's obvious a fallen angel. From a mechanics point of view, he's scum. And yet, you don't see that... Funny.

can we agree yet that shinnen's attacks make me undisputably town? also the fact that this was all addressed to fonzie makes him pretty much undisputably town too.

just out of curiosity, how long would it have taken in the last game for four fallen angels to build up enough rage points to kill someone with 13 health? and on a related note, i would appreciate two more heals from anyone willing and able.

where was i

Funny thing, the case against me is that I questioned rofl's methods. Yeah, I'm scum because I questioned a player that wants to control the game with his selected group of supposedly pro-town players, who are pro-town just because they say they are between themselves.

yes. yes you were.

Scumgroup: rofl, tajo, xyl, abr.

i bet the bus here was tajo

I also read back Walt's post, and I couldn't really find a case on him. Xyl accused him of scumlurking, but I don't think anyone with a life can keep up actively to the post rate of this topic. The same happened with Hoppla. Yes, there are a few strange things, but nothing as scum like Rofl's and Fonz' attitude.

defends walt and hoopla. i'm happy with both of them getting hurt to death in the near future. me, i'll be concentrating on hoopla.

and the rest is just shinnen being all "no wait guys you have to prove i'm scum before you kill me waaaa"

preview edit: fonzie, yeah you deserve substantial credit, but i am taking my fair share too. plus how badass was it that i put her down with righteous fury?

[Kinetic]

Scum is dead. Who cares who gets the most credit on DAY 2. Back to scum hunting please. I suggest via. I'm on my iPhone so I can't bold but I placing an Intent to hurt on via.

And in response to rofl: you are only confirmed innocent in my book when the mod says you are. You get bonus points but I didn't get my rep by taking your word or omgus for it.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Xyl comes off as awfully more pro-town after Shinnen's banishment from heaven.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Players I trust:

Fonz
Copter
Xyl
Tajo
Nuwen

[roflcopter]

now onto hoopla:

we all remember how hoopla dropped a hurt on dgb in her first post. don't need to quote that one again.

ABR: Thanks for your summary - you put together a case weightier than expected, but I think you're exaggerating what to me looks merely like a strategy disagreement.

I'm more inclined to put my vote on roflcopter. The go in and hurt 'em straight away tactic isn't going to work if everyone plays that way - we're just weakening ourselves unnecessarily. I also want to echo Nuwen's sentiments in

116

, in regards to conclusive claims. It kind of irks me and provides a get out clause if nobody probes, or follows them up.

Vote: roflcopter

right, hoopla dies right after kinetic

i love how i always make the scum squirm right away

Do you normally jump on anyone that questions the crap you post, or am I the special case?

hey look, hoopla is having the same knee jerk reaction to what i did as the one that came from shinnen the scum. maybe my words carry more weight now than they did before and people will start paying attention to this.

Acyually, whats wrong with making definitve statements?

We know that town has no additional info

. There are some actions that tell you that someone is more prob town or more prob scum. Or gut. I usually play like that.

This is the point completely. Unless people are fishing for reactions, claiming definitives is something only scum can truthfully do.

wrong. oh so wrong.

As for the part I've bolded - I think that's a dangerous way to approach an early game scenario when there is no information available - it's the first step toward tunnel-vision.

and this is the first step towards prepping yourself for a defense of just screaming omg tunnel vision

Mindless hurting on theory disagreement, or even scumminess in general isn't going to work. There's obviously two schools of thought here - but one is going to destroy the town and make us easy to be picked off if we conform with it. Stop hurting and start voting.

translation: "stop hurting and start stalling this day with me"

Unvote, Vote: ABR

- The town would be better off without you, sorry.

really? abr, one of the most pro town people up to that point as expressed by multiple sources, and you want to kill him not even because you're pointing out anything scummy that he's done, but because

the town would be better off without him

? this quote alone would be enough for me to kill you.

I'll heal, we need to stop hurting until we select a kill.

Heal: Kinetic

stall-o-rama

To start with I read up on Shinnen first in isolation, then the 'cases' in context and it looks like a load of rubbish to me. I think out of the current candidates he's possibly the best choice to keep alive - I think he's been very earnest so far.

winner of the OMG SAVE MY SCUM POWER ROLE BUDDY award, 2009

zwet has been useless, and although I haven't played in any games with him, from what I gather he's usually a good kill to go to when in doubt. I have no interest in researching his meta, but if he dies I will be okay with that.

also known as the "i'm willing to kill people who are anti-town but i don't necessarily think are scum" excuse, a favorite from in the mafia bag of tricks

roflcopter is definitively my first choice here - and I would have bit the bullet and probed elsewhere if there wasn't hurt on him already. The fact it's coming from somewhere I deem a likely honest source is also another incentive for me. I dislike the 'everyone hurt if you think they're scumlolO!L!O!!!' strategy - and in particular the attempts to separate the town and control it with his own militia.

isn't it convenient then that the scum seraph knocked me for two damage, therefore making me a candidate for you?

Shinnen, before you die, if you're town, tell me who you think is guilty.

"shinnen, before you die, i'm going to pretend like i don't know you're about to flip scum"

i'm just counting down the hours til i can hurt hoopla again

[Seraphim]

With the town working together, I'm almost positive we can kill both Hoopla and WaltWishbone in a relatively short amount of time, netting the town three scum in almost the first week of play.

@Rofl

Simply because Shinnen and I partook in mutual healing at the beginning of the game does NOT make us scum buddies. Seeing as you're extremely close to being confirmed town, I'll derail any case you have on me simply because you aren't giving up.

I am going to state this once and for all: I AM NOT SCUM. DEAL WITH IT.

[roflcopter]

shh, i'll get back to you after hoopla is dead scum

[Hoopla]

Roflcopter - I admit I was wrong on my read of Shinnen, but I think you're being unnecessarily harsh. I don't know how to defend the 'case' you've posted against me, as it's largely you finding random quotes and assigning motives to fit my words. You could do that with anyone - it's an blatant smear campaign based on gut or however you determine suspicion, which I'm sure you deem as excellent play because you got lucky on D1.

I think the only things that look bad on my behalf was my opinion that Shinnen looked town. I think there were far better lynch candidates on D1.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Roflcopter - I admit I was wrong on my read of Shinnen, but I think you're being unnecessarily harsh. I don't know how to defend the 'case' you've posted against me, as it's largely you finding random quotes and assigning motives to fit my words. You could do that with anyone - it's an blatant smear campaign based on gut or however you determine suspicion, which I'm sure you deem as excellent play because you got lucky on D1.

I think the only things that look bad on my behalf was my opinion that Shinnen looked town. I think there were far better lynch candidates on D1.

What do you have to say about post 283 and 237?

Do you think my playstyle is anti-town and still wish to kill me for it?

Who are your new suspects?

What do you think of DGB?

[q21]

I don't care that both Fonz and copter don't want anything to do with a DGB bandwagon. I will find my support elsewhere.

Call Intent to hurt DGB

She was the main detractor from the Shinnen lynch, and its about time for you to see it.

She's the only Ophan in the open (well, zwet claimed but I don't trust him as far as I could throw him) so I don't want to see her get hurt yet.

I do have some questions for her, though. Why the sudden change of read on ABR, if its anything to do with your role, tell us. If not, tell us.

Yes, and some players mindlessly follow him. One player (Juls) even referred herself as ABR's "puppet". Needless to say, Juls is scum no matter which way you look at it. At first I thought he was town. I'm far less certain now. If Shinnen flips scum, I'll bet at least half the scum is in the list of people that ABR is pushing for the rest of us to hurt. And since Shinnen has been uber-scummy, I wouldn't be shocked if nearly all the scum was on the wagon, making sure that (1) they get a free lynch off a townie or (2) they get rid of such a loose canon buddy.

I don't think Juls and ABR are scum together. If they were why would Juls ask ABR who to hurt in thread. Why not just ask via daytalk? I'm open to the possibility of one being scum but not both.

I torn between hurting Hoopla who I've never fully stopped suspecting and who's comments towards the very end of the Shinnen kill make her look worse. Or going back to hurting zwet who I was hurting before the Shinned v rofl seraph reveal.

[Albert B. Rampage]

If Shinnen flips scum, I'll bet at least half the scum is in the list of people that ABR is pushing for the rest of us to hurt.

If this is what you think, then you should probably lay off of me until we kill some of the players that are "in the list of people that ABR is pushing for the rest of us to hurt". Starting with Hoopla.

[Hoopla]

What do you have to say about post 283 and 237?

Do you think my playstyle is anti-town and still wish to kill me for it?

In

237

, I criticise your playstyle as being possibly destructive considering you rely on manipulation and seem to have a craving for leadership and control. I stand by my comments here. If you're town it's possible you're capable of exploiting scum using your tactics, but the fact you rely on control and manipulation is dangerous for the town if you are scum.

283

is something I definitively still standby. The point I was illustrating in this post was that your leading the town approach isn't an indication of your alignment - which was suggested by some (you included).

Like I've said in my post addressing roflcopter, I admit I was wrong on Shinnen - but I still think your playstyle is anti-town, and I know you're going to parade around like the egocentric town hero because you hit scum D1. I don't like that you're using being right on D1 to justify your playstyle.

As far as wanting you killed, I don't know any more - because of my views on Shinnen it would have seemed like an unnecessary bus so I think some town cred is there. I still don't approve of your trying to dictate kills.

--

Who are your new suspects?

What do you think of DGB?

I have no idea how to read DGB - she seems anti-town to me, but I'm sure someone will be there to correct me saying the best way to play her is to let her fuck up herself and maybe take a couple of scum with her. Inconclusive.

I want to read up on WaltWishbone, purely due to him being in the spotlight, although I haven't seen anything there. Yourself and roflcopter consumed most of my energy on D1, which now seems not worth pursuing. I had a funny feeling from Juls and Viq later toward the end of D1, but due to me being wrong on Shinnen, it's altered my views a little.

[Albert B. Rampage]

and I know you're going to parade around like the egocentric town hero because you hit scum D1.

I have not done this

[Hoopla]

and I know you're going to parade around like the egocentric town hero because you hit scum D1.

I have not done this

Maybe I interpretted wrong, but this...

What do you have to say about post 283 and 237?

Do you think my playstyle is anti-town and still wish to kill me for it?

...sounded a little bit like a 'haha, told you so' type post. Particularly the second question - the only reason you'd ask that is because you've got your safety net of being on the scum lynch using your tactics.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Xyl has been a little erratic but I can kind of see a method behind his strategy and I view his intentions as pure

This is what you

should

think of me.

Now prepare to get damaged at 5:17.

[Hoopla]

Now prepare to get damaged at 5:17.

What if I don't?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Then I will catch you with your pants down.

[roflcopter]

come on everybody this is blatantly obvious by now, anyone who is charged up to take an action needs to be hurting hoopla

[q21]

and I know you're going to parade around like the egocentric town hero because you hit scum D1.

Agree that ARB hasn't done anything of the sort. If anything he's tried distance form the credit claiming, which is a point in his influence.

Fonz (and to a lesser degree rolf) has been doing this and included ARB. The degree to which Fonz has been trying to claim credit is actually starting to look a little scummy.

[roflcopter]

and I know you're going to parade around like the egocentric town hero because you hit scum D1.

Agree that ARB hasn't done anything of the sort. If anything he's tried distance form the credit claiming, which is a point in his influence.

Fonz (and to a lesser degree rolf) has been doing this and included ARB. The degree to which Fonz has been trying to claim credit is actually starting to look a little scummy.

no, fonz is town