War in Heaven II - Spirit of Vengeance (Over!)

[Nuwen]

ABR...you seem more townie than anyone to me so since the game is moving at such a fast pace and I work/go to school, for the time being, I am your puppet. I can't filter all this crap right now. Tell me who to hurt and I will hurt them.

While doing a catchup skim, this is the post I want to pay most attention to. Following another player is a convenient way to jump on wagon without shouldering any responsibility for one's vote. Like random dice rolls in the RVS, it isolates the player from his or her actions.

Sorry for the no show today; I pulled an extra shift. I read Shinnen in isolation, and am willing to throw a hurt in her direction if Walt remains as a possibility for our next target. Her personal suspicions against Rolf shouldn't have taken precedence over the town's semi-consensus to limit hurt targets. I haven't read Walt's three or four most recent posts yet, but I'll update if their content changes my mind.

Hurt: Shinnen_no_Me

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Eloquent flavor text mentioning a wrathful blade

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[The Fonz]

Currently reading and up to page 15. Nice to see some familiar faces. I have a really bad feeling about ABR. He seems to be manipulating. And you're only manipulating if you're scum, otherwise you just have to argue and investigate.

Explain how. Also, HURT SOMEONE! And give reasons. Everyone please note that the last game I played with WLC, he lurked like a mofo there. And was scum. The fact that he shows up the same day i point out he hasn't posted indicates tactical lurking.

I cant really post anything useful right now. Browsing the thread there has been a lot of people campaigning against other people and I can't make a dedicated decision right now (aside from what I've said early in this game).

I'll catch up next week. (Sunday)

That'll be far too late. We need to have killed twice by then.

... *headdesk*

QFT.

this is just a general observation about the game of mafia, but has anyone else ever noticed that when scum are under an intense amount of pressure from one person, the first thing they do is yell OMG TUNNEL VISION

Yes! Definitely true. Refute the arguments, don't just allege tunnelvision. Good townies SHOULD tunnel.

Also, I still want answers to these:

A plan was proposed to heal. Most people were exchanging heals. .

Why did you not consider the obvious point that the plan was antitown?

Just so it's on record - my picks for scum at this point are Xyl, DGB, and albert.

That probably seems a bit OMGUS, but the fact that they're focussing on me instead of someone who's really scummy is really scummy.

Well, apart from the fact that OMGUS doesn't exist. But it does seem a poorly reasoned counter-suspicion- the fact that those players are the only ones you listed as suspects indicates that you haven't seen anyone 'really scummy' for them to attack. And you're hardly a fit person to judge whether you yourself are scummy.

[The Fonz]

Oh, and

Hurt: Shinnen_no_me

The spirit of The Fonz bangs a handily-placed jukebox, caused a volley of records to fly out in Shinnen's direction.

[vIQleS]

I read something that made me think that Shinnen was more likely town then hoopla (who seems fairly neutral at the mo.) but I can't remember what it was. I need to do some more reading.

Scummy to me at the moment:

Xyl
Kenetic
Rofl
ABR

I'm thinking DGB is less scummy then my last post - although my reasoning here could be flawed...

Reading to be done, then post more. Then hurting. Possibly Shinnen, just to see the kill and hence results. Then examine the bandwagon...

[Xylthixlm]

That'll be far too late. We need to have killed twice by then.

Shinnen_no_Me, WaltWishbone. That's two. I'm still considering who the third should be... maybe a lurker?

[WaltWishbone]

That'll be far too late. We need to have killed twice by then.

Shinnen_no_Me, WaltWishbone. That's two. I'm still considering who the third should be... maybe a lurker?

rofl, yeah genius, yeah you will have this town dismantled in no time genius. Regardless wether you are scum or twon

[WaltWishbone]

*town.

[Kinetic]

I read something that made me think that Shinnen was more likely town then hoopla (who seems fairly neutral at the mo.) but I can't remember what it was. I need to do some more reading.

Scummy to me at the moment:

Xyl
Kenetic
Rofl
ABR

I'm thinking DGB is less scummy then my last post - although my reasoning here could be flawed...

Reading to be done, then post more. Then hurting. Possibly Shinnen, just to see the kill and hence results. Then examine the bandwagon...

Wow I'm glad that you're thinking the four players with the highest activity are scummy. Obviously without your quick mind we'd be lost in the dark Viq.[/sarcasm]

And it is KINETIC, no E, I am not one of Barbie's plastic friends.

While I haven't by any stretch of the imagination cleared any of the people on your list, I'm at least looking at all the possibilities. Honestly, by this point in the game I'm tired of looking at the more active side. I've fenced directly with ABR, and indirectly with Xyl and Rofl. You, on the other hand, have pretty much tried to stay out of any arguments and have made bupkis but OMGUS and some mild pointing out of things you thought might help you...

Now reading you in isolation I'm more concrete about my suspicions of you.

First, since any case about you would be incomplete without the slip, I'll post it first to get it out of the way.

Random anything at this point has a 75% chance of hitting town.

No qualifying statements, no approximately, no about, just a firm definitive number. You brought in some math to back you up, but the fact remains you were so perfect with the number, so quickly (your second post of the game) that it can't help but be suspicious...

Anyway, you've already made your case why this isn't scummy, so I'll ask you not to reiterate it and focus on the other points I bring up, I'm just putting it here so that the entirety of your play is obvious.

(Last game, it took a week before rage started to accumulate).

Same post... but I hadn't realized you were in the last game... This piqued my interest because of something you tried to nail me on later in the game...

Assuming everything that is said about rage mechanics is true in this game, that means at most scum can only hold up to 3 rage points.

Did someone say that? Because I don't remember anyone else saying that... I'm going to bed - can someone check this please.

I later re-posted the role PM that was posted earlier... but it didn't hit me until I re-read you and realized you were SCUM in the last game...

You knew this was true. Knew it without even needing to look it up... So I wondered, why on earth would you need someone to look it up for you?

The only thing I can think of was you were attempting to distance yourself from this knowledge and try and place some blame on me...

This is further enhanced by the fact that you now find such an interesting group of people scummy, myself included...

And now it begs the question:

Why haven't you hurt anyone yet viq?

[Xylthixlm]

WaltWishbone: So you think Shinnen_no_Me is town? Why?

[Xylthixlm]

(Verifying that vIQleS was scum in the first War in Heaven... yep, he was.)

I don't really believe the first "slip" Kinetic points out on vIQleS... but the attempt to hide knowledge of how rage works is damning. vIQleS gets to be #3 to die, or maybe even #2.

[WaltWishbone]

WaltWishbone: So you think Shinnen_no_Me is town? Why?

Do you read or just skim?

I'll repeat my myself, no worries.

I never wrote I was sure she was town, I wrote I am not willing to hurt her beacuse, I am not reading (with the same conviction she is scum) you and other players seem to have in her guillt. Number two, I am not willing to scarifice what could be one of our power roles, a Seraphim (which she is) this early in the game!

Why do you care anyway?

Your strategy is like you are playing survivor? You just want to stick around as long as possible and do not care how many Townies are left in your wake. You don't care if we win or lose and you will not listen to anyone but yourself.

Why do you think she is scum?

Why did you stop persuing me and switch over to her so quickly?

[q21]

Walt, she is proven to be a seraphim, but that actually increases her chances of being scum. If she was the only one we knew about I wouldn't be pushing for her death, but if she's town then rolf is probably scum. Personally I see one loyal seraphim for one fallen seraphim as a fair trade, if it even comes to that.

[Nuwen]

Walt's first commitment! Joyous days. It only took 26 pages too.

I went back and reread the first ten pages, as well as Hoopla, Shinnen, and Zwert in isolation. I think Shinnen has questionable responses to several points which were raised however I would hesitate at this point at joining this wagon, especially given her roleclaim. If she flips town, it would be unfortunate to lose one of our Seraphim so early in the game.

133% damage versus a 50/50 town confirmation. Do you not believe that at least one Seraph is scum? Assuming ~5 scum for 20 town players, lynching at random has a 25% chance of hitting scum. Lynching a Seraph ups that to ~33%, assuming Rolf, Shinnen, and I are the only ones in the game. I'm claiming now because it'll be painfully obvious if Rofl and I are speedlynched if Shinnen flips scum. If she flips town, you guys have another genuine 50/50 split to lynch by.

The fact that the damage is concentrating on a little over 1/4 of the players makes me :D:D

+1. Keep damage this concentrated for the next lynch or eight. With the fear of anarchistic voting assuaged, Tajo should be able to function again.

I'm an Ophanim. Now what do you want?

... *headdesk*

This claim isn't as stupid as it looks at first glace (did I really just type that?). Zwet always gives opportunistic scum a reason to get him strung up, even if he is town. Through hurting/vote analysis, rather than case analysis, we can align his wagon with future mislynches to see who was pushing spurious crap onto a claimed power role.

Let's kill some people and have a healing cooldown phase where we heal some of the players who probably aren't scum. WaltWishbone, after his latest post, has piqued my scum meter. I am seriously reconsidering switching my hurt to him.

No. Let's heal unwagoned players at is becomes necessary. We're slowing down the game otherwise. Right now, I'm assuming about 4-6 scum are gaining one rage point per week:

In addition to your usual powers, the force of your betrayal and anger give you strength. Every Sunday at noon (server time), you will receive 1 Rage Point that you may use in a secret attack by PMing me with a player's name.

We just need to keep someone alive enough to not get slam-raped by secret damage.

[Kinetic]

Nuwen, I know I sound like a broken record when I say this (and I feel like the only person who is saying it), but this whole rage mechanic could be a bluff. We don't know for sure yet if that is how it works in this game.

Everything in me is saying it would be odd to have the same exact hidden effect in two games. Maybe its a double bluff (they wouldn't possibly expect me to do the same thing), but either way I think everyone should be expecting the unexpected as well as preparing for the possibilities.

[Nuwen]

Nuwen, I know I sound like a broken record when I say this (and I feel like the only person who is saying it), but this whole rage mechanic could be a bluff. We don't know for sure yet if that is how it works in this game.

Everything in me is saying it would be odd to have the same exact hidden effect in two games. Maybe its a double bluff (they wouldn't possibly expect me to do the same thing), but either way I think everyone should be expecting the unexpected as well as preparing for the possibilities.

Every other mechanic has been identical, with the exception of Ophanim tracking time (72 hours here versus 48 hours in the mini). I'd rather humor the existence of rage and be cautious with non-wagon health totals than risk ignoring rage while it has the potential to exist.

Your strategy is like you are playing survivor? You just want to stick around as long as possible and do not care how many Townies are left in your wake. You don't care if we win or lose and you will not listen to anyone but yourself.

And

you

were there, and

you

were there, and you were there too, strawman.

Xyl's play has been calculating, but never reckless. Whatever his alignment, it's obvious that he's playing this game to win - thus, which alignment do his posts help accelerate towards a win condition? Do you think mafia is a purely psychological game that can be played effectively and won without the deductive power of mislynching?

[Kinetic]

Nuwen, I know I sound like a broken record when I say this (and I feel like the only person who is saying it), but this whole rage mechanic could be a bluff. We don't know for sure yet if that is how it works in this game.

Everything in me is saying it would be odd to have the same exact hidden effect in two games. Maybe its a double bluff (they wouldn't possibly expect me to do the same thing), but either way I think everyone should be expecting the unexpected as well as preparing for the possibilities.

Every other mechanic has been identical, with the exception of Ophanim tracking time (72 hours here versus 48 hours in the mini). I'd rather humor the existence of rage and be cautious with non-wagon health totals than risk ignoring rage while it has the potential to exist.

I did not say that.

What I said was this: Rage may be here, but it may not be. Don't only act as if it is the only way.

Play as if it is, it doesn't hurt us not to. At least not yet... (Ironically, just though of an interesting way it could... target player deals damage equal to the health of another player in the game.)

Anyway, I'm just saying be cautious and be prepared if the wind is really blowing the other way.

[WaltWishbone]

Walt's first commitment! Joyous days. It only took 26 pages too.

I went back and reread the first ten pages, as well as Hoopla, Shinnen, and Zwert in isolation. I think Shinnen has questionable responses to several points which were raised however I would hesitate at this point at joining this wagon, especially given her roleclaim. If she flips town, it would be unfortunate to lose one of our Seraphim so early in the game.

133% damage versus a 50/50 town confirmation. Do you not believe that at least one Seraph is scum? Assuming ~5 scum for 20 town players, lynching at random has a 25% chance of hitting scum. Lynching a Seraph ups that to ~33%, assuming Rolf, Shinnen, and I are the only ones in the game. I'm claiming now because it'll be painfully obvious if Rofl and I are speedlynched if Shinnen flips scum. If she flips town, you guys have another genuine 50/50 split to lynch by.

No, it sounds real fun Nuwen... In theory you are correct, if we go through all methodical like and eliminate every player in the game until we are down to three... chances are we can wrap this up in a week and we have a 1-3 chance of winning... Yay town.

So lets do it... Lets just go by the list on page one and speed lynch.

Albert B. Rampage

Drench

DrippingGoofball

Giuseppe

Hoopla

Juls

Kinetic

Nuwen

populartajo

q21

roflcopter

Seraphim

Shinnen_no_Me

Tenchi

The Fonz

vIQleS

WaltWishbone

Cybele WeyounsLastClone

Xylthixlm

zwetschenwasser

ABR you are up first, I betcha we can have you lunched by noon if we all hustle... then we move onto Drench. If we take out everyone in a random manner and all, damn we could be done by Sunday.

Lol, Nuwen, I understand you and Xyl's intentions and although the idea would work, in the end it is out guessing the Mod. I just finished a game where that happened and although I enjoyed winning; it did not feel like it was in the spirit of the game.

I think it was a mistake that you claimed and I am not sure if I agree with your math; that there are only three Seraph, but I guess you are right about one thing. What happens to you, Rofl, and hns next will reveal some important clues.

[Kinetic]

Wishbone, please make your avatar a cute little dog.


That is all.

[WaltWishbone]

Wishbone, please make your avatar a cute little dog.


That is all.

lol, if you know where I can find one, please link me to it via pm. I Will totally change.

...and I do absolutely agree with you, that we don't know what the set-up is and should be careful. I disagree with sacrificing our seraphim (which we probably have at least 2, maybe 3) to get their seraph (if they only have one).

[roflcopter]

for great justice!

hurt: shinnen

rofl drives the his blade, wreated in flames, straight through shinnen's ribcage, and with a fiery burst the traitor is sent straight back to hell where he belongs.

... but misses because he's too sleepy. Try again later. Flay

[roflcopter]

nuwen - well, i wish you hadn't claimed, but you are fairly obvious town because of it. scum seraph in this situation would never have claimed if shinnen and i were both town

next to die: hoopla

[Kinetic]

I will do you one better, I'll make you one.

Just made a new one for myself.

Here:

[WaltWishbone]

I will do you one better, I'll make you one.

Just made a new one for myself.

Here:

You rawk, thanks! I found one, but I will switch it now.

[Kinetic]

lol, it HAS to be a Jack Russel Terrier, or don't you know Wishbone?

[roflcopter]

oh motherfucker. i think i fucked up with the timestamps and did my hurt a half an hour early. and i dragged my ass out of bed for this and everything. sigh. i'll be back in 25 minutes to end shinnen's life for real real not for play play.