destructor wrote:imaginality, joo are still votink Iyzak. Do joo still vant to lynch him? If not, vich of elvis or caf vud joo support ze lynching of?
I had alrrruddy unvoted vhen you askingk me zis.
As vor vhich I vud prever to lynch. I am leanink tovords caf19. (Rrreasons: (1) vhile caf did exprrress some zuzpizion of Darox durink day 1, only voted him ven it became Darox-lynch-or-no-lynch-time, (2) doubts about caf19's 3-buyerrs-or-die rrrole in late-game as exprrrezzed above, (3) vague sense zat caf19 has been scum-hunting less zan elvis)
Howeffer, I am notingk zere are vree votes vor caf allrrready, zo I vill hold off votingk for now to give caf19 a chance to claim vifout riskingk a hammer, but as finks stand, I vill vote caf19 laterr today.
Out of the people who can actually vote, the majority is now against me, so I will claim. Get ready for the least interesting claim of your lives.
I am... someone selling lemonade. Surprising, eh?
Apart from selling lemonade, I am vanilla. Vanilla-ish, anyway - last night, the mod asked me if I wanted to change the mechanics of my role. There was no elaboration apart from that. I declined the offer (selling lemonade was going alright for me at that point). Oh, and there isn't anything in my role about changing it, so that was a surprise for me (I was expecting no night action). But, I'm pretty sure that might have something to do with addressing the 'caf in Lylo problem' that has been brought up.
There is other flavour stuff in my role that I'm not allowed to say - my rough age, what I am using my lemonade sales money for flavour-wise, etc. I am assuming that this stuff is actually flavour and nothing more because a) the lemonade seems to have no effect on the person who drinks it, and b) other people haven't really mentioned anything similar to said flavour. Another piece of speculation on my part is that I'm not allowed to reveal said information because it will make my role seem very innocent, thereby giving me an advantage.
Hi, I've been trying to scrape together some time today to focus enough and make a coherent post. Here goes.
elvis_knits wrote:First of all, Isacc, the bulk of my suspicion on you is over my read of kmd's case, which you already said was a fair assessment. Also, whether you are town or scum, claiming was the right thing for you to do to advance the game, since deadline was coming and you had the most votes. It is very scummy that you held off this long when virtually nothing has changed for weeks.
On to the claim... Any type of depowered cop or doc claim is suspect in my book. I mean, sometimes it's real, but most of the time it's the safest type of power role to claim, because it's likely they will get counter claimed.
Even if we lynch you Isacc and you fliptown, you confirm Plum. Because I am pretty sure you were not blocked last night.
I don't love this post. EK, if you think even a bit about it, Isacc's play today backs up the claim - I'm thinking specifically of his 'Plum looks town but I'm not defending her' stuff, which makes a whole lot more sense in context of Isacc's claim. The semi-suggestion that we lynch Isacc anyway and confirm me (as has been said, one semi-confirmed townie + one unconfirmed Weak Doc > one confirmed townie, and as I have enough belief in the claim such as it is I'd rather avoid killing a useful if now vulnerable powerrole). The fact that you continue to keep [discussing it as a viable option to consider, noting both the above and
especially
the fact that we have little time left until deadline and I don't see anyone but you, EK, still suggesting we possibly try to lynch Isacc . . . doesn't look any better.
New stuff: sudden wagon on Caf, on charges of . . . not rambling on about the lemonade after three cups had been sold (I'm not sure how that would have helped). SlySly's attack kinda comes out of nowehere. As has been pointed out, he's said little against Caf besides expressed wariness re: the lemonade sales.
The major linchpin of Sly's case seems to be that Caf wasn't rocking the boat, content to leave things hanging as they would. If this could be proven a strong 'active lurking' accusation, I might be more open to voting Caf, but little in the way of back-up case seems to have been made. Also, leaving the Darox wagon until it became inevitable - a more intriguing accusation, at least because useful quotes have been provided.
SlySly wrote:Paraphrasing... 'I have to get everyone believing I am town so they can help ME out.'
I haven't seen enough shady wording in the quotes you provided to see anything but a nulltell in this.
Re: your response to me: Agreed, time is too short to waste, and with likelyhood being that you still can't be lynched, pushing for a test on that will only waste what little time we have left. To some, yes, FOS seem useless. But as you say you're unlynchable today, I say what's wrong with bolding my suspicions of you and making them slightly more official?
SlySly wrote:
1. The best scum actively lurks to avoid bringing suspicion on himself.
2. The best scum avoid discussing suspicions on themselves unless forced into it. (3 free passes are hardly pressure).
3. Possible Darox deadline bussing/distancing.
If caf does flip scum, he will shoot to the very top of the best players I have ever had the pleasure of playing against. He has been relatively squeaky clean; too squeaky clean.
I detect traces of too townie to be town here, but not enough to write a paragraph-long attack on (as oft is my wont). (3) is possible, but I need at least some scumtells in addition to possible bussing. (2) you seem to have tried to argue, but I haven't really seen it. (1) would be a good point, but you've barely argued it, let alone persuasively. As Caf said, he has contributed. He brought up a case on myself
Caf19 wrote:I went over something similar with EK earlier. I first expressed suspicion of Darox in post 515; it continued throughout the rest of the day. I didn't express major suspicions of anyone else in that time - I wasn't conforming to the standard buddy behaviour of "FoS your partner and vote (or plan to vote) someone else". As I said at the time, I didn't want to vote until enough lemonade had been bought, as that seemed a bit counter-productive. After the lemonade had been bought, it didn't take long until I voted, but I wanted to wait until the rest of Darox's defence/thoughts because that seemed the pro-town thing to do as opposed to instantly jumping on the wagon.
This is the only thing about the case so far that really bugs me noticeably: Late Darox vote, little prior voting, etc. Now knowing what the lemonade does for you . . . it makes enough sense. It doesn't make me feel great, because usually in the serious stage of a game I think it's best, info-wise, to always keep one's vote out there at all times (or, you know, off for a post or two in between reevaluating suspects). But knowing how much you'd want to avoid the Day ending without all your lemonade sold, I can see universal motivation (i.e. not alignment-related, hence generally a nulltell).
However, considering that Caf didn't really have a serious vote the entire day, it's at least consistent with what he's been claiming and implying (seriously, I'm slapping myself for not noticing that earlier, and noticing that Caf's consequences were likely extremely serious, at least personally). The late delay in voting Darox
after
the third cup of lemonade had been bought . . . thus far that's the shadiest thing I see. Not, however, as shady as EK.
Kmd's concern re: Caf as liability late in the game seems to be overridden, to a degree, by the role info Caf has provided in response. I still think that EK lynch is better than semi-policy Caf lynch.
Caf19 wrote:Since I've got the most votes, I may as well add that the mod put something in my role to make me believe that - something along the lines of 'if X happens... who knows'. Heavy paraphrasing obv. The gist of it is that Mirth has clearly considered outcomes such as that one.
Seeing as I haven't found Caf scummy, this is enough for me right now.
Kmd4390 wrote:Page 44:
Isacc, for Day 1 bussing to a lynch being "terrible" play, see a game I have referenced many times as amazing scum play: Mini 628. LlamaFluff bussed me hard Day 1. Had me as his number 2 suspect all day. Forced a mason claim from his number one suspect. After the claim, he told everyone they should be voting me. I was lynched. Now even better yet, Day 2 he comes out of nowhere with a case no one saw at all Day 2. He gets that lynch. It was our other scumbuddy. We won that game. I never rule out bussing after that game. "I voted for scum" is not a defense IMO. (Not just here. Any time.)
Agreed. I lost in my Newbie game in great part due to strong, unwavering Day 1 bussing. I agree with this strongly enough that I'm willing to go out of my way in this post to mention it.
Ah, in the interim Caf has claimed. No, not apparently a very interesting or useful role . . . so, Caf, can you tell us your role name? Is it literally just 'someone selling lemonade' or does it have a name?
Re to all ppl who have discussed bussing: I see a misunderstanding between the points I have been making, and the ones you have returned. However, proving my point will do nothing to help scumhunting so I will leave it be, and I don't even think I could be fully clear in a forum what I mean.
In other news, Imaginality I think you misunderstood my question. I wanted you to explain why you should not be lynched. Please answer soon? lol.
Next, I still find EK a better lynch than Caf. The arguments for why we shouldn't allow Caf to stay alive seem speculative at best. Not really something to lynch based on.
Not to mention, I see no strong connections to or against Caf. Regardless of what he flips, I think the next day we'll be left with no new information to work with (at least, from the lynch). His lynch does not seem like it will be beneficial to us really.
Also, something I have re-looked at just recently. There were two kills last night. Maybe there is a Vig, but in the off-chance that there are two kills again, I'd rather lynch based on scumminess, not lynch based on policy, and frankly I don't feel Caf has been very scummy.
Also, the claim that Caf has lurked significantly seems like scum trying to make an argument near the end of the day, when people feel too rushed to check back. I remember always feeling like I knew where Caf stood, and feeling like he gave detailed posts. In fact, I think he's been more active than, say, Imaginality today.
Does anyone find it interesting that Caf is now being accused of bussing and distancing with Darox? Kinda funny that since I am semi-confirmed now, the argument has just jumped onto Caf's back.
In fact, it's almost identical to the cases on me. Lacking major scumtells or scummy behavior other than speculative bussing and/or buddy with Darox. Interesting.
I am Don Quixote. I am trying to find my lady love. Each night I can check one person to see if they're my lady love. Last night I checked Glork (now Des) and got no response (Mirth couldn't tell me anything, although she said my choice was received). Which leads me to believe I was blocked last night. You might remember I hinted to this before after Isacc claimed and said Plum is town unless he was blocked. Well, I doubt he was blocked since I am assuming I was. Also, I hinted Day 1 that I was looking for something.
Also, role doesn't say what happens when I find my lady love. I don't know if we become masons or what happens. But I can't win until I find my lady love.
Talk nerdy to me.
"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." -Joseph Campbell
I am findink ze vagon on caf surprizink. Maybe I need to rereed to see vhere it is comink from. It is odd to me to see zis vagon growink ven zose hoo are on it seemed only to be talkink about lynching Iyzak beforehand vith fleetink menshons of caf.
I notiz zat elvis makes a comment zat she vants morr sobstanz vrom caf, yet she commented earlier zat a post of his, vich voz substanshol, contained many good points and she agreed vith zis. I am interested in seeink who elvis beeleeves is caf's schombuddy. (kvezchon is below)
elvis wrote:I don't think I ever said that Isacc is careful with his votes. Isacc said that as his defense, and I questioned him about it. I'm not really sure it's true. I've played with Isacc before, and I don't remember noticing this. I haven't had time to look back at the game, but I don't remember it.
Kmd wrote:Des, please explain post 1073 where you say you are "left with" Imaginality, Sly, and Cow. Are you saying one has to be scum? Why? Did you take Darox's flip (he is also in the list) into consideration?
I beeleeved zat all ze schomz were named in my list. As I voz abel to remove Glork from ze list, I vos "left vith" ze rest.
I am feelink zomvhat helpless right now. I vud honestly feel most comfortable vith imaginality's lynch, but I do not zee it happenink at all. elvis flippink schom vud give us a lot of info, I am zinking, and give us moch reeson to beeleeve imaginality is town, vich vud be grate vor my hed. If elvis and caf are boz town, I am tinkink zat ze schomz hav to be {Sly, hascow} or {imaginality, hascow}.
@ everywon vantink to lynch caf -
hoo do joo tink hiz schombuddy is?
caf, do joo hav a rolename? [preview edit: I see zat Plom asked ze same kvezchon]
[Preview edit 2: I see elvis has claimed.
Elviz, vy do joo assume no response meens a roleblock? Are joo supposed to receev a "resolt"?]
My PM says I will be told when I find my lady love.
Last night though I was told specifically that my action did not go through. It didn't say I was blocked specifically, but that my action did not go through.
Talk nerdy to me.
"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." -Joseph Campbell
des wrote:If elvis and caf are boz town, I am tinkink zat ze schomz hav to be {Sly, hascow} or {imaginality, hascow}.
I don't think sly is scum anymore. He's been one of the more townish people today, I think. I don't know about the rest, but I'm not hot for slyscum anymore.
Talk nerdy to me.
"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." -Joseph Campbell
I don't know. I don't think his behavior really implicates anyone or excludes anyone. I think caf was trying to skate through the game by not doing much, not pissing too many people off. But in truth he wasn't helping, and was mostly just trying to sell lemonade.
Talk nerdy to me.
"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." -Joseph Campbell
Elvis's claim seems plausible, and fits with her not thinking Isacc was blocked and also saying she was looking for something on D1. Such a role isn't necessarily town though - it could be third party or whatever, and still have that flavour.
Also, in the novel, Don Quixote spends quite a lot of the plot trying to find his 'lady love', but he never finds her and she never appears (and is probably just a figment of his imagination). With that in mind, I wouldn't be surprised if the lady love doesn't actually exist in the game. I'm not sure what implications that has for elvis's likely alignment. What does everyone else think of her claim?
elvis_knits wrote:I don't know. I don't think his behavior really implicates anyone or excludes anyone. I think caf was trying to skate through the game by not doing much, not pissing too many people off. But in truth he wasn't helping, and was mostly just trying to sell lemonade.
I dunno about that. Pissing people off is not a town tell. Sure, I don't like to piss people off, but I disagree with the assertion that I've basically been doing nothing for most of the game.
@ Plum and des: I'm just someone selling lemonade.
Isaac wrote:In other news, Imaginality I think you misunderstood my question. I wanted you to explain why you should not be lynched. Please answer soon? lol.
In 1078 I vas listink zome helpvoll stoff I haf done zis game. I admit my contrrributions today haf been less zan spectacular. But I vill haf more to offer tomorrrrow.
Elvis, you say
elvis_knits wrote:But I can't win until I find my lady love.
So zis sounds difffferrrrent to, zay, PokerFace's rrrole in Monty Python Mafia vhere he had to find cigarrrettes (a vild gooze chaze) but vas also able to vin viv town. Yust to clarrrify, elvis, vhich if any of following is correct?
(a) you vin viv town
or
if you find yourr lover
(b) you vin viv town
but only if
you haf found your lover
(c) you vin if you haf found your lover
(d) ozzer
"holy shit this entire time i thought imaginalitys profile was a purple seahorse" - camelCasedSnivy
imaginality wrote:(b) you vin viv town but only if you haf found your lover
I never read Don Quixote. If my lady love doesn't exist, then I can't win. This is possible given the bastard mod game. I'm still hoping it's possible for me to win... but given Mirth's evilness, I don't know.
Talk nerdy to me.
"We must be willing to let go of the life we planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us." -Joseph Campbell
I can't remember exactly what was going on in my mind at the end of the day yesterday, as another game I'm in heated up as this one cooled off a bit and I have lost some of my thinking at that time in this game, but I had a theory that if Darox flipped town it made it obvious that 3 people were scum, imaginality being one of those 3. Well, Darox obviously didn't flip town so that, as well as the events of this day, may also be contributing to my cloudy memory.
I will try to look back through and try to remember exactly what my thinking was but I wanted to post this so you didn't think I was ignoring you this close to deadline.
"SlySly is the scummiest player on the site." ~DrippingGoofball
I am honestly not sure what to make of the claims. EK is correct in saying her claim makes sense with her actions, however I do not know if that really makes her town or not. Caf's claim, on the other hand, is sadly lacking in detail, and yet I still can't see major scumtells on him.
I have to say, I am still for EK lynch. Worst case scenario, we'll get information. Best case, she'll flip scum.
And sorry Sly, but I can't make a point by point case against EK at this point in time. I have loads of homework to do, and deadline is tomorrow, and I am really wasting time even by posting this much. Honestly, a large minority of my read on EK is gut, or else just things that wouldn't make sense if I tried to explain it.
I am havink von of my moments vhere I kvezchon everythink I beeleeved to be true ebout life, ze universe and my mafia games. It may have zomthink to do vith the vicious fever I have jost cort. On zat note,
Mod:
I have cort zom zort of illness. If I disappeer for a few days, it is likely becos I am lyink in bed and groanink.
It is very important to me zat imaginality, Sly and Kmd tell os who zey tink is caf's schombuddy. I beeleeve it vil give us moch informashon regardless of vich vay he flips.
I am interested zat elvis says she is lookink for "lady" love. Is it zat gender is important? Vhat iv ve gender claimed? Male/female/NA?
destructor wrote:It is very important to me zat imaginality, Sly and Kmd tell os who zey tink is caf's schombuddy. I beeleeve it vil give us moch informashon regardless of vich vay he flips.
Korrently, off top of my head, am finkingk Plom in parrticular and Glork-now-you perrhaps could fit as scumbuddiez for caf19, yes?
caf19 wrote:I'm just someone selling lemonade
Maybe... (though it's interrrestingk you vud get plenty of ozzer flavour but no more zpezific name). But zere is enough vagueness arround your rrole to make me uneasy. I haf a hunch zere is more to you zan it zeem, yes?
Am not convinzed elvis is town eizer, but at ze least ve haf more chance of confirrrming orrr catchink elvis out if elvis is scom, I zink.
Vote: caf19
"holy shit this entire time i thought imaginalitys profile was a purple seahorse" - camelCasedSnivy
