Newbie 745 - Town wins!

[Gabe]

Oy. That's pretty heavy.

Firstly, I post what I think, as I think it. If I notice anything scummy, I see what I can do to make it as public as possible.
Second, I had just completed a very thorough reread, paying close attention to Mufasa, Spinach and FK in particular. Mufasa is ticking towards scum at this point. He's made enough mistakes, and this one crossed the line.
Third: a

mere

self vote? I don't think the vote was anything mild. I see it as a newbie scum attempt to cause a bit of confusion. It was certainly nothing pro-town. Perhaps my earlier 'mindset' was the result of too much reliance on gut feeling with Mufasa. Really, I didn't see Mufasa as a threat, but now I'm

openly

contradicting what I posted previously.

That second post was an afterthought. If I hadn't posted that, it would've looked pretty bad, jumping from 'Mufasa is just a noob' to 'Mufasa, suspect.' I'd call it a cleanup, yeah. I guessed (correctly) that somebody would jump on the vote, and what harm could that second post do?

[Kison]

Second, I had just completed a very thorough reread, paying close attention to Mufasa, Spinach and FK in particular. Mufasa is ticking towards scum at this point. He's made enough mistakes, and this one crossed the line.

Why, then, was there no mention of a reread in the post in which you voted him? Why is his self vote the only point you raise?

Third: a

mere

self vote? I don't think the vote was anything mild. I see it as a newbie scum attempt to cause a bit of confusion. It was certainly nothing pro-town.

Compared to everything else you wrote off as newbie mistakes, which includes role fishing and his horrendous vote on Spinach, a self vote doesn't compare in the least.

Perhaps my earlier 'mindset' was the result of too much reliance on gut feeling with Mufasa. Really, I didn't see Mufasa as a threat, but now I'm

openly

contradicting what I posted previously.

While it's perfectly fine to change your mind, the way you went about voting Mufasa looks opportunistic. Again, the only point you raise is concerning his self vote, and I see no indication you rethought any of the points you previously dismissed.

[Kison]

unvote Vote: Self just to stir up conversation

I don't see why this would stir up any conversation that would be worth talking about. If you have to vote, vote for somebody besides yourself and give a valid reason. Otherwise, it's pretty much a waste of time.

If you thought the self vote was scummy, why did you not call it such in this post?

[Gabe]

Why, then, was there no mention of a reread in the post in which you voted him? Why is his self vote the only point you raise?

I assume that it is obvious I have been reading when I said I voted 'with no small amount of thought'. In retrospect, I imagine I could have expanded on my thoughts.

Compared to everything else you wrote off as newbie mistakes, which includes role fishing and his horrendous vote on Spinach, a self vote doesn't compare in the least.

The self vote was simply one too many mistakes. The vote on Spinach was indeed scummy, but I still see the role fishing as a newbie mistake.

While it's perfectly fine to change your mind, the way you went about voting Mufasa looks opportunistic. Again, the only point you raise is concerning his self vote, and I see no indication you rethought any of the points you previously dismissed.

I never completely dismissed those points, I held them aside. I was more curious at the time about FK. There was nothing oppurtunistic about the vote, beside the fact that I have now begun to take more interest in the game and have invested an afternoon in rereading the posts so far and making some decisions.

[Gabe]

unvote Vote: Self just to stir up conversation

I don't see why this would stir up any conversation that would be worth talking about. If you have to vote, vote for somebody besides yourself and give a valid reason. Otherwise, it's pretty much a waste of time.

If you thought the self vote was scummy, why did you not call it such in this post?

I still had not reread and made a decision about Mufasa. At the time I posted that, I was unsure, though suspicious.

[Kison]

Here's what's not adding up:

1) You claimed you are open about what you think, calling things scummy as you see them

2) You're also indicating you didn't want to say anything because you weren't sure about Mufasa at the time.

The problem is, either you think the vote is scummy, or you don't, but you gave no indication you thought it was scummy in your first response. You also didn't give any indication you thought that his vote on Spinach was scummy, despite posting around the time it occurred. Did you only recently decide they were scummy? Did you find them scummy but decide not to comment on them? If the latter is true, what does that say about you claiming to be open about what you think?

[Gabe]

In truth, I'm finding traces of scum where before I did not, but long after they were topics of discussion. As the game is heating up, it's vital to pay more attention to detail, and it is there that scumminess is found. I'm doing exactly this: paying more attention to detail. I'm not briefly reading anymore, I'm keeping an entire notebook and jotting down notes. While doing this, it's natural that I'll see things that I did not see before, and reach conclusions that would be impossible without careful consideration.
I do claim to be open about what I think, but that does not mean I post every word that goes through my head. In my first response, I had nothing going through my head to post, besides that I disliked the self vote and thought is was unhelpful. It then occured to me, after posting, that the self vote could actually be an evasive anti-town move on Mufasa's part.

[Kison]

Unvote

Thanks for enduring that. I did find that vote to be suspicious, but I find your explanation to be reasonable, and your reaction in general has me thinking you're more likely town than I did before. The problem is I had no real solid opinion of you because you never had the spotlight turned on you.

If I had to revote, I would place this back on Mufasa, but with 4 votes to lynch, I'm not entirely ready for the day to end.

I'd really like more from hohum and Spinach in particular. Hohum for ignoring my question, and Spinach because he never finished up his rundown of the remaining players.

[Family:Kostic]

I also find

Gabe

to be much more pro-town now that you have responded well to the vote & started getting nore involved.

Thoughts:

Townie

Kison

is harder to judge at this point. He & Neko both were very interogative and on the look out for suss behavior, which is pro-town behavior, but as they have both been the most evperienced players, it is expected of them and anything otherwise would be seen as suss. So as said, I haven't seen any scummy behaviour but the pro-town behaviour can not be used as solid evidence that you are townie..

Thoughts:

Neutral

Mufasa

, I was convinced that your earlu mistakes were simply down to eagerness but the self vote is just very anti-townie to me and is giving me a lot to think about atm...

Thoughts:

Suss but not Scummy just yet.

Hohum

, You have gone under the radar a fair bit during the whole game and only een active in spurts, as an IC and the 2nd most experienced player I would expect more from you. Especially now when all you seem to be doing is probing me on weak evidence that I have already rebutted, even when you claim that Mufasa's self vote was "extremely scummy" and then proceed to say "more votes on kostic please". Where is the sense in that?

Thoughts:

Looking quite scummy of late.

Bladewing

, since you claimed, very promptly after you were voted & accused of being scummy, that you had a pro-townie power role you have gone very quiet and seem content to lay low. Your vote on Hohum was a very bold move but provided no real reasons to why you did it and has provoked no form of defence from Hohum, this makes me think that maybe it is a dummy vote to throw off any possible partnership between you two.
Having said that, it was a vote from Hohum that prompted you to claim as a Doc (putting you at L-2 after Neko's initial vote). Any pressure did not last after that as Neko unvoted as did hohum immediately after.
If I was being critical, this could also possibly be seen as a dummy pressure vote that didn't go according to plan, hence the "facepalm" and the swiftness that all votes were removed. But this is a very tricky situation to properly asses.
Something I did pick up on though was that Hohum seemed to 'guide' Bladewing through when he did place his vote on him, prompting him to "contribute more opinions" and then saying

I appreciate that you're participating now but please do more than just pressure voting. Who do you think is scummy and why?

after pressure voting Spinach with Neko & mufasa for no real reason.. Seems like a bit of guidence to me..
When Blade went through who he thought was scummy and why, it was very, VERY breif.

Thoughts:

Limited pro-town behaviour, bar the claim, and suss behaviour as pointed out. Therefore, Looking scummy..

Spinach

, you haven't gotten properly involved in much of the 'scum hunting' and have only provided breif opinions on situations, cant say I have seen much scummy behavior though.. Not sure how I feel about you not trying to defend yourself much when you were at L-1 but not sure if it is a scummy sign..
Strangely, hohum subtly did seem to come to your defence though when he 'thought' I voted you & was 'supposidy' jumping the bandwagon to lynch you. A contributing reason to the vote he still has on me... I Don't get it..

Thoughts:

suss but not scummy

So finally,

Vote: hohum

On the basis of ignoring extremely scummy behaviour to keep a vote on me with evidence that I have already rebutted.. As well as other reasons I have pointed out during my post..

[Bladewing Vorox]

Bladewing

, since you claimed, very promptly after you were voted & accused of being scummy, that you had a pro-townie power role you have gone very quiet and seem content to lay low. Your vote on Hohum was a very bold move but provided no real reasons to why you did it and has provoked no form of defence from Hohum, this makes me think that maybe it is a dummy vote to throw off any possible partnership between you two.
Having said that, it was a vote from Hohum that prompted you to claim as a Doc (putting you at L-2 after Neko's initial vote). Any pressure did not last after that as Neko unvoted as did hohum immediately after.
If I was being critical, this could also possibly be seen as a dummy pressure vote that didn't go according to plan, hence the "facepalm" and the swiftness that all votes were removed. But this is a very tricky situation to properly asses.
Something I did pick up on though was that Hohum seemed to 'guide' Bladewing through when he did place his vote on him, prompting him to "contribute more opinions" and then saying

I appreciate that you're participating now but please do more than just pressure voting. Who do you think is scummy and why?

after pressure voting Spinach with Neko & mufasa for no real reason.. Seems like a bit of guidence to me..
When Blade went through who he thought was scummy and why, it was very, VERY breif.

Thoughts:

Limited pro-town behaviour, bar the claim, and suss behaviour as pointed out. Therefore, Looking scummy..

Hohum, with Neko and now Kison, is one of the two who hadn't acted suspicious a lot. I wanted to hear more about him but it seems it didn't work, which I expected a bit because it was the only vote he had on him. I also considered voting Mufasa but he said he was absent until Sunday, so even if we voted against him, he could have defended himself.

As for the reasons you suspect me. I can say that I didn't think that far and if I was someone else, looking at the game, I'll think that hohum and I may be the two scums.

I think it is time to defend myself. I do think you're right about my vote on Spinach, I didn't had a real reason for it. I think that I was just trying to participate more, so I wouldn't look more suspicious. As for my brief post on who I thought was scummy, well, it's just that I'm not very good at making long posts.

As for why hohum unvoted swiftly after my claim, you should ask him. However, I think that not unvoting when someone claim he is a doc is a sign that you may be scummy.

[Spinach]

I'd really like more from hohum and Spinach in particular. Hohum for ignoring my question, and Spinach because he never finished up his rundown of the remaining players.

I'm in the process of moving, and I've only been able to work on the rundown bit by bit. It's sitting in my notes and I think I'll be finished with it tonight.
Being sick didn't help, either. >_<

[Mufasa]

Hello. I appreciate you're thoughts everyone, and I am back from my absence leave.

Concerning the self vote: I voted for myself because I didn't want to slow any part of the game down for anyone. In my thinking I did not see this as anti-town because I felt that the days have compiled and I didn't want to make anyone have to wait on me. With that said, I also now see that it was anti town, with the fact that me being lynched would result in a third townie being lost and the town being at a extreme disadvantage to winning. I must say I have to thank Bladewing and by him not voting I would think the entire town should see him as pro-town very much, and not only because of the doctor claim.

that said my suss:

Bladewing

Doctor claim at L-1 corresponds to his game play and the way he has handled my self vote.

Neko/Kison

Kison has done an amazing job coming in and repairing the damage that Neko had on my beliefs on who was scum. However, we must look at what Neko had down, which makes the two scummy.

Hohum

Excellent at lying low and entering the fray when the fire is burning, but isn't very good at lighting the match to start a fire. Therefore he is suss but I wouldn't say scum at this point.

Spinach

Thoughts haven't changed from last vote on him. Still Suss.

FK

Can't say much about him other than his dislike for hohum.
Therefore since I haven't been lynched and according to what I see you guys didn't want day one to end. I am going to

unvote. vote: Kison

. I really enjoy your posts, but my vote is based on what Neko had said during his time.

[Gabe]

Neko/Kison [/b] Kison has done an amazing job coming in and repairing the damage that Neko had on my beliefs on who was scum. However, we must look at what Neko had down, which makes the two scummy.

What has Neko done that makes 'Nekison' look scummy? I seriously haven't seen much from these two that's scummy at all, and while this may be a result of experience, I am not certainly pointing fingers at Kison.

[Kison]

I really enjoy your posts, but my vote is based on what Neko had said during his time.

Which is...?

[Mufasa]

The way he said things with a matter of fact, Im better than you, gloating way, wasn't neither friendly nor town like, and it caused me to see a lot of things he says as villonous remarks.

[Kison]

So he's cocky. How does that make him scum?

[Mufasa]

i just didn't like his way of playing cause it was aroggant

[Kison]

So are you admitting that you're voting for me even though you don't think I am scum?

[Mufasa]

i do think you are scum and you are doing much better than neko at hiding it

[Kison]

But you have yet to explain why you think I am scum.

Since Neko being 'cocky' clearly is no indication of alignment, what is your reason?

[Mufasa]

just an instinct thats all

[Gabe]

just an instinct thats all

So you're voting for Kison based on instinct that you can't explain further? We're on page 12, surely you can elaborate?

[Family:Kostic]

OK Mufasa, I kind of understand where you are coming from. But why didn't you vote Neko when he was still in the game with this reason?

[farside22]

Vote count:

Mufasa 2 votes: (Mufasa, Gabe )
Family: Kostic 1 vote: (hohum)
hohum 2 vote: (Bladewing Vorox, Family:Kostic


Not voting:

Kison
Spinach



With 7 players it takes 4 to lynch

[Mufasa]

I really wanted to vote Hohum but at the time everyone didn't suspect him at all, and I was afraid to go against him cause he kinda had a grasp on everyones play. idk