War in Heaven II - Spirit of Vengeance (Over!)

[Xylthixlm]

There is also the fact that while other players under suspicion have something town points somewhere along the line, zwet has none.

Please point to what WaltWishbone has done that gives him town points.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Please point to what WaltWishbone has done that gives him town points.

He posted more than 1-liners.

[Xylthixlm]

Please point to what WaltWishbone has done that gives him town points.

He posted more than 1-liners.

More than 1-liners, by themselves, are not worth town points. What did he say

in

the more than 1-liners that is worth town points?

[Seraphim]

Alright.

In this game, I quickly notice three groups emerging. There's the attackers, who want a fast game with quick hurts and fast kills, the healers who want full town consensus before making decisions and lots of healing, and the middlers who want fast kills but want at least some town consensus before attacking.

I think the scum are most likely to be the people with no opinion or who constantly jump opinions in order to fit whichever of these groups currently has the sweep of the board. At the beginning of the game, the aggressive players managed to grip the town by pointing out rage points and how quick deaths are best for the town. Then the healers took control of the board again by claiming that organized hurting/healing is best for the town. Right now, the aggressive players have control again, as evident by all the hurting going around right now.

Looking back, Hoopla seems to switch between the two extremes. At first, she was one of the first people to drop a hurt...and then proceeding to become one of Tajo's largest endorsers. Her constant switching of sides, not to mention healing players for no reason, does not seem town at all.

At the moment, I still want to heal Xyl tomorrow so that scum do not kill him. After that, I will continue to hurt zwet until he is dead and then start on Hoopla or Juls. Juls will immediately elevate if zwet flips scum as the town of them have been buddying against Xyl the entire game.

[Albert B. Rampage]

*applause*

Bravo, bravo

[Seraphim]

Do I win?

[q21]

There is also the fact that while other players under suspicion have something town points somewhere along the line, zwet has none.

Please point to what WaltWishbone has done that gives him town points.

Although he's done a lot of agreeing with people he has put in the effort to make a big posts and some decent length ones thereafter. On day one, without have done anything overtly scummy I'll give him a little credit for the effort.

Admittedly, in WW's case town points may be too strong a term, but I've seen nothing to make me want to see him dead. If I'm reading him wrong at the moment and he is scum I'm not too worried. Because if he continues to make big/decent length posts he will trap himself. If he suddenly stops he'll be suspicious for that.

[Xylthixlm]

Admittedly, in WW's case town points may be too strong a term, but I've seen nothing to make me want to see him dead. If I'm reading him wrong at the moment and he is scum I'm not too worried. Because if he continues to make big/decent length posts he will trap himself. If he suddenly stops he'll be suspicious for that.

Okay. Please point out something in any of his posts

so far

that could trap him in the future.

[The Fonz]

At the moment, I still want to heal Xyl tomorrow so that scum do not kill him. After that, I will continue to hurt zwet until he is dead and then start on Hoopla or Juls. Juls will immediately elevate if zwet flips scum as the town of them have been buddying against Xyl the entire game.

What's to stop someone else saying

'I still want to heal Zwet tomorrow so that scum do not kill him. After that, I will continue to hurt Xyl until he is dead then start on [name]?'

If people continue healing the people they don't suspect because other people do and want to hurt them, we'll just get the deadlock situation i described earlier, with rage points racking up.

[Xylthixlm]

Intent to heal is fine. But I have a proposal: Seraphim and zwet (or Juls) should get together and agree that, since they are going to cancel each other out anyways, neither of them will hurt/heal me so they can both use their actions elsewhere.

[The Fonz]

I have no idea why people think Xyl is scum. I've been reading nothing but town intent from him especially since he's going out of his way to make heal/hurt counts.

Making votecounts are an easy way for scum to gain townie cred without actually furthering the lynching of scum.

If he was scum, he'd be a lot more aggressive and attempt to bullshit the town with useless information.

He is being aggressive. I'm not sure what you mean by 'bullshit the town with useless information?' Xyl's not going to act like noobscum whether he's scum or not, you know.

NOTE: Xyl is actually my least favourite of the three currently hurt players to die. I don't like a Zwet wagon either, feels too defaulty.

Hoopla don't hurt me back unless you get support from at least 4 players to do so. Anything else would be extremely anti-town.

You know I take 'back' to mean 'promise to hurt if you do?' Saying 'I'm in favour of it happening, but not going to do it myself' is not backing. Counting it as such would lead to the lots of little hurts which Tajo was worried about.

Intent to heal: Xyl

There is no case on him and the people attacking him have no basis and are some of the scummier players in the game. If Zwet flips scum, Juls is next.

NO HEALING!

[populartajo]

THANK YOU FONZ AND OTHERS THAT DONT SUPPORT Y WAY OF THINKING.
FUCK YOU ALL.
IF YOU ARE TOWN THEN YOU TOOK THE MOST RETARDED DECISION AND SCUM ARE RIGHT NOW LAUGHING THEIR ASSES OFF.
DID I TELL YOU WHY TOWN LOST THE OTHER GAME?

[populartajo]

ALSO, FOR THE RECORD, MY PLAN IS NOT SYNONIMUS OF LAGGING THE GAME. I DONT KNOW WHO FUCKTARD THINKS THIS. I AGREE WITH DEADLINES.
WHAT I DONT AGREE IS THAT EVERYONE CAN HURT WHOEVER THEY THINK IS SCUM. HURT FEST ONLY BENEFITS SCUM.
WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW.
THE VOTING SYSTEM IS A WAY TO ESTABLISH WHO THE TOWN SHOULD HURT. ITS NOT STALLING THE GAME.
THE HEALING AT THE BEGINNING WAS NOT A STRATEGY OF STALLING THE GAME. ITS A STRATEGY OF TOPPING THE HPS OF THE MAJORITY OF THE PLAYERS WHICH WE KNOW ARE TOWN. WHO BENEFITS MORE OF HAVING MORE HPS: 4-5 SCUM OR 15-16 TOWNIES?
FONZ AND SUPPORTER ARE EITHER RETARDED OR ARE OBVSCUM GOING AGAINST A`PLAN THAT GIVES TOWN THE CONTROL OF THE GAME.

[The Fonz]

You've presented your opinion on why town lost many times, you miserable self-centred piece of shit. That doesn't change the fact that you're wrong, and your plan is incredibly scum-benefitting because it will slow the game down and allow the scum to rack up more rage points.

I REPEAT FOR THE HARD OF THINKING: TAJO'S PLAN = HANDING THE GAME TO SCUM.

I am SO fucking angry right now.

[populartajo]

You've presented your opinion on why town lost many times, you miserable self-centred piece of shit. That doesn't change the fact that you're wrong, and your plan is incredibly scum-benefitting because it will slow the game down and allow the scum to rack up more rage points.

I REPEAT FOR THE HARD OF THINKING: TAJO'S PLAN = HANDING THE GAME TO SCUM.

I am SO fucking angry right now.

HAHAHA. DONT GET ANGRY. THIS IS A GAME.
Tell me in few words how my plan slows the game?
Also show me why "slowing the game" trying to get town consensus is more detrimental to the town than any random fucktard (who could be scum) hurting whomever they think.

[The Fonz]

ALSO, FOR THE RECORD, MY PLAN IS NOT SYNONIMUS OF LAGGING THE GAME. I DONT KNOW WHO FUCKTARD THINKS THIS. I AGREE WITH DEADLINES.

Right. What happens when deadline hits? Are people who are violently opposed to a particular lynch supposed to join the masshurt? And who has the power to set the deadline?

THE CLEAR IMPLICATION OF YOUR PLAN IS TO LAG THE GAME, AND ONLY A COMPLETE FUCKWIT WOULD NOT SEE THIS. I've explained why earlier.

WHAT I DONT AGREE IS THAT EVERYONE CAN HURT WHOEVER THEY THINK IS SCUM. HURT FEST ONLY BENEFITS SCUM.

FOR LIKE THE FIFTEENTH TIME YOU ILLITERATE DOUCHEBAG, NO-ONE IS PROPOSING THAT.

We are proposing that people hurt when they have the support to make a significant wagon. Waiting for a consensus WILL INEVITABLY CAUSE THE DAY TO DRAG and THIS WILL BENEFIT SCUM.

THE HEALING AT THE BEGINNING WAS NOT A STRATEGY OF STALLING THE GAME. ITS A STRATEGY OF TOPPING THE HPS OF THE MAJORITY OF THE PLAYERS WHICH WE KNOW ARE TOWN.

THE FUCKING OBVIOUS EFFECT OF TOPPING UP EVERYONE IS SIMPLY THAT KILLING *ANYONE* TAKES LONGER. THIS BENEFITS TOWN AND SCUM EQUALLY. IT TAKES LONGER TO KILL TOWN, IT TAKES LONGER TO KILL SCUM. BUT ALL THE WHILE, RAGE POINTS ARE RACKING UP YOU FUCKING PATHETIC EXCUSE FOR A HUMAN BEING.


TAJO IS RETARDED. NO IFS, NO BUTS. HE MAY BE SCUM AS WELL, BUT HE'S DEFINITELY RETARDED.

[Xylthixlm]

Whoa, calm down, Fonz.

[The Fonz]

Meh. He started it.

[roflcopter]

people need to stop healing bitches right now. when i get home i'll decide who is getting a piping hot serving of justice.

[Nuwen]

When did post length become indicative of town alignment?

Small post density and sparse analysis are really anti-town in this game, but that doesn't make the opposite pro-town. The likelihood of a long post being written by town or scum is no higher than random. Read what Walt actually posted - it's vacuous position-mongering.

[The Fonz]

Btw, having reread that game, the voting system for me was a large part of why town lost.

Town lost at least in part because they killed two townies, Coron and Kab, for disagreeing with the system- also, half the town were several points toward death by the end of the first aeon. AND- and this is a not insignificant factor- you took too long. First aeon lasted two weeks. You wasted a lot of time healing people, but without taking them out of range of the rage point kills. It's incredibly dishonest to ignore this factor. Oh, and the town happened to mistarget repeatedly, which is nothing to do with the setup. Musher vs Pojedinac in the sixth aeon was crucial- and town got it wrong.

No-one is suggesting anything close to the kind of anarchy that happened day one there- the plan being forwarded by me, Albert, Xyl, etc, would lead to around 3-4 players being seriously hurt,

whilst no-one else gets damaged at all.

Note that pojedinac as scum was pushing for the mass heal. It's frankly disengenuous to claim that a plan that involves consolidating a handful of wagons is the same as a free-for-all, but i've been saying this for page after page and tajo still isn't listening, so he won't start now.

[Xylthixlm]

Ahem. Since I think this is getting lost in all the noise...

Seraphim

: You will agree with zwetschenwasser that you will not heal me unless zwetschenwasser hurts me, so that both of you can be free to do something else.

zwetschenwasser

: You will agree with Seraphim that you will not hurt me unless Seraphim heals me, so that both of you can be free to do something else.

[Albert B. Rampage]

people need to stop healing bitches right now. when i get home i'll decide who is getting a piping hot serving of justice.

QFT

and hurt hoopla

[Seraphim]

Ahem. Since I think this is getting lost in all the noise...

Seraphim

: You will agree with zwetschenwasser that you will not heal me unless zwetschenwasser hurts me, so that both of you can be free to do something else.

zwetschenwasser

: You will agree with Seraphim that you will not hurt me unless Seraphim heals me, so that both of you can be free to do something else.

Agreed.

[Seraphim]

BTW, it's clear that tajo is leader of healer movement and the Fonz is leader of the aggressive movement...actually, I take that back, but he's definitely on the far end of that spectrum. At this point, I doubt either of them are scum.