War in Heaven II - Spirit of Vengeance (Over!)

[roflcopter]

oh yeah and hoopla is in the scumgroup too. if its a five man scumteam i've already nailed them all.

[roflcopter]

dgb is scum because of poptajo's underhanded distancing/bussing, based on dgb's own theories on bussing.

[Shinnen_no_Me]

Oh, we can all play the same game of grouping people under groups without good bases (in your case, with no bases at all):

Scumgroup: rofl, tajo, xyl, abr.

I find it funny that you (rofl) say that Seraphim doesn't give reasons for saying which players he want dead/find scummy, yet you do the same thing. Hypocrite. I don't like people who point out things in other players, while they are doing the same under lame excuses.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Scumgroup: rofl, tajo, xyl, abr.

Is this a serious comment?

[Nuwen]

Oh, we can all play the same game of grouping people under groups without good bases (in your case, with no bases at all):

Scumgroup: rofl, tajo, xyl, abr.

I find it funny that you (rofl) say that Seraphim doesn't give reasons for saying which players he want dead/find scummy, yet you do the same thing. Hypocrite. I don't like people who point out things in other players, while they are doing the same under lame excuses.

Thus, your solution is to play the same game? This page's irony quota is well met.

I can support a WaltWishbone hurt now; his most recent attempt at 'scumhunting' focuses only on Xyl, supplemented with a chain of "I agrees." He's just responding to received attention and plucking out convenient stances to support.

Hurt: WaltWishbone - by flavor be purged!

[roflcopter]

shinnen, that's called a strawman. and thanks for chainsaw defending seraphim.

[roflcopter]

i was pointing out the double standard being applied, as a whole boatload of people have been all over my shit for something that seraphim has also done, yet no one felt it necessary to comment on him

[populartajo]

You are not making any sense, rolf.

[populartajo]

Oh, we can all play the same game of grouping people under groups without good bases (in your case, with no bases at all):

Scumgroup: rofl, tajo, xyl, abr.

I find it funny that you (rofl) say that Seraphim doesn't give reasons for saying which players he want dead/find scummy, yet you do the same thing. Hypocrite. I don't like people who point out things in other players, while they are doing the same under lame excuses.

Im actually interested in why I AM in this list?

[Shinnen_no_Me]

Scumgroup: rofl, tajo, xyl, abr.

Is this a serious comment?

It's not a serious comment. I just wanted to point out with that, that what rofl is doing is not pro-town at all. In fact, for me is totally anti-town. And I just wanted the others to see it (because, for some bizarre reason, usually my arguments against rofl are left unread).

I don't want to play rofl's game. It's childish and anti-town as it can be. I prefer discussion and scumhunting, unlike him, who prefers buddy groups and easy mislynches.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Scumgroup: rofl, tajo, xyl, abr.

Is this a serious comment?

It's not a serious comment. I just wanted to point out with that, that what rofl is doing is not pro-town at all. In fact, for me is totally anti-town. And I just wanted the others to see it (because, for some bizarre reason, usually my arguments against rofl are left unread).

I don't want to play rofl's game. It's childish and anti-town as it can be. I prefer discussion and scumhunting, unlike him, who prefers buddy groups and easy mislynches.

What do you think of Nuwen, Hoopla and DGB?

[Juls]

Hurt: Xyl

This game is unorganized. Good job scum.

[Xylthixlm]

Rofl's crazy attacking is noted.

vIQleS sticks out as the scummiest player so far in the game.

I'm not reading Xyl as scum ...

^ All of these are things I'm pretty sure scum-Seraphim wouldn't say.

[Xylthixlm]

Hurt: Xyl

This game is unorganized. Good job scum.

Tunnel much?

[roflcopter]

good thing i can basically kill people all by myself, because it seems like nobody else in this game gets it

[Xylthixlm]

good thing i can basically kill people all by myself, because it seems like nobody else in this game gets it

You can't kill people all by yourself.

[zwetschenwasser]

Hurt: Xyl

He's relegated to posting one-liners in an attempt to look townier.

[Nuwen]

good thing i can basically kill people all by myself, because it seems like nobody else in this game gets it

No, you can't. At most you can put out 133% normal town damage, unless you're admitting to stashing rage or indicating that there's another hidden damage mechanic in this game. If you try to solo kill, I guarantee someone in this game will counter it with healage, wasting both your cooldown and a cooldown that can be better used for kills with cases behind them. Any misguided vigilante-type play hurts the town twofold.

Hurt: Xyl

He's relegated to posting one-liners in an attempt to look townier.

I knew it'd just be a matter of time before I felt like bricking Zwet through the Internet.

[The Fonz]

Fonz, rolf and Xyl

WHATS SO FUCKING WRONG WITH TREATING THIS GAME AS NORMAL GAME WITH VOTING INSTEAD OF HURTING?

We dont random hurt anyone that could be town and we dont start healing him when its too late and you realize, omg he could be town.

FUCK YOU TAJO.

No-one is proposing random hurting. AT ALL. EVER. This is a gigantic strawman. I at least, am proposing to harm people you would normally wagon, once you have established there is some support for the wagon.

You want to know what the stupidly obvious problem with your plan is? Deadlines. Or the lack thereof. Normally, if people aren't around to hammer, then the deadline cuts off. So either you've got a reduced lynch, or at the very least a set time people have to vote by to get it.

Now, check out your plan. The problem is that hanging around one more day is only one more day. Which is an incentive against wagon consolidation. A deadlocked town could pretty much hang around forever, with everyone hoping the other side'll shift, and not them, and no firm deadline to force anyone's hand. The frog/saucepan problem. Your plan is a recipe for paralysis.

If we're only hurting when there is a consensus, why would we need a 'healing phase' at all?

Can we at least agree that this 'I heal you, you lynch me' is antitown and scum-favouring?

Also, for the last time, as with a normal game, IF SCUM WANT TO QUICKLYNCH/HURT, THEN IT'S GOING TO BE FUCKING OBVIOUS! The problem is if everyone is whittled down to the point when scum can deploy a load of rage at once, and lots of people are in range. This can be mollified by a) reducing the amount of rage available by acting quickly and b) only hurting people who are the suspects of multiple people, as above.

RANDOM HURTING IS NOT THE WAY TO GO.
HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU THIS?[/size]

STRAWMAN
STRAWMAN
STRAWMAN
STRAWMAN

A plan was proposed to heal. Most people were exchanging heals. .

Why did you not consider the obvious point that the plan was antitown?

Just so it's on record - my picks for scum at this point are Xyl, DGB, and albert.

That probably seems a bit OMGUS, but the fact that they're focussing on me instead of someone who's really scummy is really scummy.

Well, apart from the fact that OMGUS doesn't exist. But it does seem a poorly reasoned counter-suspicion- the fact that those players are the only ones you listed as suspects indicates that you haven't seen anyone 'really scummy' for them to attack. And you're hardly a fit person to judge whether you yourself are scummy.

AS PER THE FONZ STIPULATION, EVERYONE SHOULD VOICE THEIR INTENT TO KILL ONE OF THESE THREE PLAYERS:

Shinnen_no_Me / Xylthixlm / vIQleS

Since they were the only ones to be nominated, its time to destroy one of these three players.

That wasn't exactly how i envisioned it working, but meh. Anyone else could still call a suspect- but they probably should have done it by now.

AS PER THE FONZ STIPULATION, EVERYONE SHOULD VOICE THEIR INTENT TO KILL ONE OF THESE THREE PLAYERS:

Shinnen_no_Me / Xylthixlm / vIQleS

Since they were the only ones to be nominated, its time to destroy one of these three players.

Also, I don't particularly think that any of these deserve to die, why are you limiting the towns targets?

Why are you opposed to focus? As basically everyone has said, we can't just go around hurting if there's no support.

Zwet behaves similarly here.

Vote/pledge/I choose you, pikachu: vIQleS

ABR, Nuwen is backing you up. Feel free to hurt Viq.

You're avoiding these questions. If you're going to showcase your previous games to illustrate how your play can help the town - you need to show the times where you've fucked the town over with bad play.

To be fair, we don't have all fucking week.

@Xyl

Juls and WaltWishbone are lurking, correct?

I also think it's important to sort out the lurkers from the scummy lurkers. Generally, scum lurkers will either say less or pretend that they're saying something when they're not.

There are a couple of specific questions I've asked of Juls here which should be a good starting point if she actually wants to contribute.

Also, lots of people are expressing suspicion of Viqles, so get hurting!

Checked out Wishbone. He's Shinnen's nemesis.

Over-the-top agreeable and submissive.

Let me check that. If true, those are scumtells.

***cue music***

Darkness immediately falls as the Angel of Rampage rises into the black sky. The elevated figure materializes his giant Scythe of Blood into his right fist. He holds it high like a trophy of God.

'Neca eos omnes, deus suos agnoscet!'

And the angel dives. As the forceful winds of heaven scurry uncontrollably in all directions, the Scythe of Blood comes crashing down on Shinnen.

Hurt Shinnen

Sweet.

Hurt: Shinnen no me

The winged one with the leather jacket impales Shinnen on the end of his offensively large quiff.

It should be noted that DGB, ABR, and rofl are all attacking different players despite the numerous calls for town consensus.

ABR knew full well i'd back him, since i was waiting for support to hurt Shinnen. So I don't think he is in the same category as the other two. Did anyone else pledge to harm Walt? I know he was in a few people's suspect lists.

Whoa! Three separate hurts is bad... that being said I don't have good reads on any of the players, not enough to heal any of them.

WE DON'T WANT TO HEAL, HOW HARD IS THAT TO UNDERSTAND!

WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND?
In all scenarios PEOPLE HURTING WHOEVER THINK THEY ARE SCUM are blatantly antitown since they are giving scum (if they are not) the free pass of being aggressive and random hurting that WE KNOW its detrimental to town in the long game
THIS WOULD NOT HAPPEN IF WE USED THE VOTING SYSYEM

Fucking hell, that first pig isn't going to have a house by the time we've actually got round to killing someone.

ATTENTION ALL: THE HOOPLA/TAJO SYSTEM IS AN EXCUSE FOR LURKERS TO PREVENT THE TOWN FROM KILLING ANYONE, WHILST THE SCUM BUILD UP THEIR RAGE.

I'll heal, we need to stop hurting until we select a kill.

Heal: Kinetic

MASSIVELY ANTITOWN SOMEONE CALL A HURT ON HIM PLEASE.

Which is exactly my point.
I dont want this posterior scenario:
Oh, yeah, Shinnen is scummier than Walt. Lets start hurting her. Walt is already hurt. He could be scum but could be also town.
Rinse and repeat.
Final result : majority of people hurt. Scum smiling with their rage points.
BEFORE WE HURT, WE HAVE TO BE SURE OR GET A GENERAL CONSENSUS.
Voting Intent to hurt is the way to go. Vote someone else you think is scum. Show why he is scum. There are probs that townies get what you are saying and vote with you.

NO! We only have to have sufficient consensus for a decent-sized wagon, not a lynch. WHICH MEANS THAT ONLY THE TOP HANDFUL OF SUSPECTS AT A GIVEN TIME WILL BE HURT. We've stated that if someone hurts in a lone wolf manner, it will a) be counted as scummy and b) that player will be healed after the next kill. We shouldn't heal up people who have a large portion of the town suspecting them. In fact, I would go so far as to say the converse of your plan- we only heal with consensus. (For example, if someone was a longtime suspect, but the alignments of the dead meant no-one suspected them anymore).

Spreading the damage around like Xyl is doing only benefits scum because they can use their rage points in the background to knock out 2-3 players at once. Please notice who is leading the charge to do these spread out hurts.

I want Xyl dead. Who is with me?

Uh, Xyl just pledged to hurt someone already injured.

Thank you for the clarification. At his point I am going to return the favor and...

Heal: vIQleS

This is insanely antitown.

I propose from now on we masshurt anyone who heals without town consensus.

Consider it a policy lynch. THe Walt/ViQ counterhealing is just delaying the death time for TWO of the town's top suspects.

Exactly. Also, instead of providing a GOOD explanation for his actions, Xyl is giving us numbers that ALL OF US ALREADY KNOW.

Zwet, his argument is good.

That you can't read doesn't make it less so.

@Kinetic, care to explain why you think I'm scum? Or it's just pure unbased gut?

The problem with the players that are lurking is that this is a fast paced game, and that most of it has been during a weekend, when some people tend to not be online. So, I wouldn't call them lurkers yet. They need to post more, but I don't think they fall into the lurker category just now. Maybe in a couple of days, but not now.

I also don't like Xyl's eagerness to hurt so fast. Chances are that you're only going to spread the damage among town, making things easier for scum. A deadline is fine, but just hurting like that without some control is just going to help scum.

I surround a field. Lots of species of wildlife live in me, including dormice and various birds.

What is a hedge, Alex?

Walt is at least neutral. I dont see the case on him nor the necessity to hurt him to death like Xyl is proposing.
I would like more from viqles and Shinnen. Tenchi is a bad feeling. DGB is scum, btw.

LURKAPOLOGIST!

Heal Seraphim

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

At this stage, Tajo is starting to look SO antitown he may need to be killed regardless of aligment.

ATTENTION EVERYONE: WE NEED THE FIRST DEATH SOON. NOBODY HURT ANYONE WHO HASN'T BEEN HURT YET. NOBODY HEAL AT ALL. IF ANYONE BREAKS EITHER OF THESE, WE MASSHURT. DEAL?

[Hoopla]

Hurt: Xyl

He's relegated to posting one-liners in an attempt to look townier.

What sort of rubbish excuse to hurt is that? Particularly considering your posting style.

I'm up for hurting rofl or ABR - even though the town is clearly operating on three different strategies. If I gather no support for these candidates I also endorse lurker hurting. Xyl isn't the best choice first up.

[The Fonz]

Albert B. Rampage, Nuwen, populartajo, q21, roflcopter, vIQleS, WeyounsLastClone, and Xylthixlm

THe above are guilty of partaking in the scum-favouring healing up plan. Putting this here to remind myself in future.

[Xylthixlm]

Albert B. Rampage, Nuwen, populartajo, q21, roflcopter, vIQleS, WeyounsLastClone, and Xylthixlm

THe above are guilty of partaking in the scum-favouring healing up plan. Putting this here to remind myself in future.

Huh? I haven't healed anyone.

[The Fonz]

Did you not? You got healed. I assumed everyone who was healed reciprocated.

[Xylthixlm]

# Albert B. Rampage - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: Nuwen,

Kinetic

(1)
# Drench - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: (0)
# DrippingGoofball - Hurt by: Hoopla (1) Healed by: WeyounsLastClone/Cybelle (1)
# Giuseppe - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: (0)
# Hoopla - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: (0)
# Juls - Hurt by: Xylthixlm (1) Healed by: zwetschenwasser (1)
# Kinetic - Hurt by: roflcopter (1) Healed by: Hoopla (1)
# Nuwen - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: Albert B. Rampage (1)
# populartajo - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: Tenchi (1)
# q21 - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: populartajo (1)
# roflcopter - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: DrippingGoofball (1)
# Seraphim - Hurt by: roflcopter (1) Healed by: Shinnen_no_Me, populartajo (2)

# Shinnen_no_Me - Hurt by: Albert B. Rampage, The Fonz (2) Healed by: Seraphim (1)

# Tenchi - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: (0)
# The Fonz - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: (0)
# vIQleS - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: WaltWishbone (1)

# WaltWishbone - Hurt by: DrippingGoofball, Xylthixlm, Nuwen (3) Healed by: vIQleS (1)

# WeyounsLastClone/Cybele (-1 HP) - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: q21 (1)

# Xylthixlm - Hurt by: Juls, zwetschenwasser (2) Healed by: Juls,

Drench

(1)

# zwetschenwasser - Hurt by: (0) Healed by: (0)

There has been no secret damage as of post 356.

[Xylthixlm]

Did you not? You got healed. I assumed everyone who was healed reciprocated.

Nope. Juls healed me, and I hurt him. He's been on an OMGUS crusade ever since.